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Opinion Community The best looking games this gen.... won't be 60fps

Mar 16, 2014
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...until you try to manipluate the camera, move on screen elements or...ya know...try to play the game...at which point what was a beautiful still shot turns into what is quite clearly a series of beautiful stills, instead of nice fluid motion.
No, not really. I’ve been playing beautiful games for years at 30fps and you didn’t see me saying the graphics couldn’t be appreciated because it was only 30fps. You can still have great gameplay in motion with great graphics at only 30fps. Otherwise, why would ANY game EVER be 30fps?

Do you think the developers say to themselves “I think our game should be 30fps so that we can piss off the hard core gamers and make it so our game is barely playable by anyone, but at least it will look nice I guess”. No, they don’t.
 

Kerotan

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...until you try to manipluate the camera, move on screen elements or...ya know...try to play the game...at which point what was a beautiful still shot turns into what is quite clearly a series of beautiful stills, instead of nice fluid motion.
30fps when done right is actually not bad and I love 60fps. I gave the ps4 version of Death stranding a go on my ps5 when I was transferring the save and it runs great at 30fps. As did rdr2, uncharted and TLOU2.

I'd say they'll target 60fps until the ps5 pro launches and then we'll see 30fps on the regular and they'll target 60fps on the pro.
 
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Soodanim

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No, not really. I’ve been playing beautiful games for years at 30fps and you didn’t see me saying the graphics couldn’t be appreciated because it was only 30fps. You can still have great gameplay in motion with great graphics at only 30fps. Otherwise, why would ANY game EVER be 30fps?

Do you think the developers say to themselves “I think our game should be 30fps so that we can piss off the hard core gamers and make it so our game is barely playable by anyone, but at least it will look nice I guess”. No, they don’t.
30fps became standard because sparkly things sell in trailers and screenshots, but when 60fps/performance mode became an option the market embraced it with opens arms. I think 60fps is going to stick around, because people have shown that they want it and it's worth including in games.

30fps graphics might get people in the door, but 60fps is what wins out when the novelty of the graphics wears off and you want to actually play the game and have it be a smoother experience.
 
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...and you want to actually play the game and have it be a smoother experience.
The thing is though, 30fps is smooth. When 30fps is NOT smooth, is when you switch from 60fps to 30fps suddenly. These people with graphics and frame rate options on their consoles switch to 60 and then go back to 30 and they're like.... ewwww, 30 is garbage... I can't play anything at 30 anymore, it's like a slideshow and you can't see anything because it's so blurry and clunky. No, it's not. It only seems that way because you didn't give your eyes and brain time to adjust to it.

I was just playing Jedi Fallen Order on my PS5 the other day and I had it on resolution/30fps mode and it was very responsive and clean and sharp. I didn't notice any blurring or feeling like it's a slideshow, but that's because I didn't start it on 60 and then flip it to 30. It plays perfectly in 30fps and for me, I prefer the higher details of 4K.... it looks too soft at 60fps on my monitor.
 
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GymWolf

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At least on console.
 

dano1

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I’m more than happy with 60 and scaled 4K I’m into shooters so 30 isn’t a option!
 

Hunnybun

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The thing is though, 30fps is smooth. When 30fps is NOT smooth, is when you switch from 60fps to 30fps suddenly. These people with graphics and frame rate options on their consoles switch to 60 and then go back to 30 and they're like.... ewwww, 30 is garbage... I can't play anything at 30 anymore, it's like a slideshow and you can't see anything because it's so blurry and clunky. No, it's not. It only seems that way because you didn't give your eyes and brain time to adjust to it.

I was just playing Jedi Fallen Order on my PS5 the other day and I had it on resolution/30fps mode and it was very responsive and clean and sharp. I didn't notice any blurring or feeling like it's a slideshow, but that's because I didn't start it on 60 and then flip it to 30. It plays perfectly in 30fps and for me, I prefer the higher details of 4K.... it looks too soft at 60fps on my monitor.

I think partly it's just individual perception.

For me 60fps looks profoundly better than 30fps. It's almost like magic. Everything looks more tangible and almost three dimensional. I can just 'see' everything so much more clearly.

Of course, you get used to things, though. For years 30 was the standard and it was tolerable, but there was always the feeling that it looked much worse once the action actually started. Of course, going *back* to 30 from 60 is particularly awful, as you say. But that phenomenon goes both ways: if I'm used to 30, suddenly going to 60 looks amazing again.

But otoh I literally can't tell the difference between 60 and 120fps. A lot of people swear by it, but I've tried it on Doom Eternal and I genuinely can't see a difference. Not just a minimal difference, but literally no difference at all. And if I'm honest, I can't tell *that* much difference between Ratchet at 60 and at 40fps... it's there but it's minor.

So for me it's something like: 30fps bad; 40fps good; 60fps - 1000fps great.
 

Soodanim

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The thing is though, 30fps is smooth. When 30fps is NOT smooth, is when you switch from 60fps to 30fps suddenly. These people with graphics and frame rate options on their consoles switch to 60 and then go back to 30 and they're like.... ewwww, 30 is garbage... I can't play anything at 30 anymore, it's like a slideshow and you can't see anything because it's so blurry and clunky. No, it's not. It only seems that way because you didn't give your eyes and brain time to adjust to it.

I was just playing Jedi Fallen Order on my PS5 the other day and I had it on resolution/30fps mode and it was very responsive and clean and sharp. I didn't notice any blurring or feeling like it's a slideshow, but that's because I didn't start it on 60 and then flip it to 30. It plays perfectly in 30fps and for me, I prefer the higher details of 4K.... it looks too soft at 60fps on my monitor.
It's important to not write off framerate as merely an improvement only in relative terms. I knew before I got a 144hz monitor that I would enjoy it, because the framerate is something I notice and it does affect my enjoyment. While a careful implementation of frame pacing and motion blur can mitigate the shortcomings of 30fps, the fact is that the frames aren't there. No amount of adjustment makes up for that. 30fps is chosen because it's the bare minimum you can get away with (well, 24 is, but games follow NTSC which did 30) and still have your brain fill in the gaps. It's the bottom of the barrel.

When you are playing a game that relies on timing, the frames (or lack of) makes a difference. You're going to play Dark Souls better at 60 than at 30. First Person Shooters even more so. Games are about responding to what you see, and more of what you see simply makes sense. Whether display resolution or framerate is the more important gain is contextual, but as I said the market has spoken regarding 60fps. People respond well with 60 in more ways than one.

I can obviously still enjoy a game at 30fps (I'm currently replaying Ocarina), but 60+ is without a shadow of a doubt the choice I make every single time.

It's fine if you are happy with 30fps, but preferring higher framerates is a lot more than simply the adjustment to relative differences.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

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What’s even the point of this thread? Yeah, games that take twice as long to render a frame will have a nicer looking image. No shit.
 
Mar 16, 2014
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It's important to not write off framerate as merely an improvement only in relative terms. I knew before I got a 144hz monitor that I would enjoy it, because the framerate is something I notice and it does affect my enjoyment. While a careful implementation of frame pacing and motion blur can mitigate the shortcomings of 30fps, the fact is that the frames aren't there. No amount of adjustment makes up for that. 30fps is chosen because it's the bare minimum you can get away with (well, 24 is, but games follow NTSC which did 30) and still have your brain fill in the gaps. It's the bottom of the barrel.

When you are playing a game that relies on timing, the frames (or lack of) makes a difference. You're going to play Dark Souls better at 60 than at 30. First Person Shooters even more so. Games are about responding to what you see, and more of what you see simply makes sense. Whether display resolution or framerate is the more important gain is contextual, but as I said the market has spoken regarding 60fps. People respond well with 60 in more ways than one.

I can obviously still enjoy a game at 30fps (I'm currently replaying Ocarina), but 60+ is without a shadow of a doubt the choice I make every single time.

It's fine if you are happy with 30fps, but preferring higher framerates is a lot more than simply the adjustment to relative differences.
I beat every race with 3 stars in DriveClub and all of the DLC as well as Bikes. Your brain is amazing at figuring out the timing of the controls and it’s no problem.

Also, I tried playing Spider-Man and R&C at 60, but I just didn’t like how they looked and felt like that. It just seemed too arcade like and ruined that movie quality for me. Also, the animations looked weird to me at higher frame rates.

That being said though, I wouldn’t play DOOM or Call of Duty at 30fps, but action adventure games and third person games, hell yeah 30 is preferred.

I also wanted to play little nightmares 2 at 30, but the frame pacing was so messed up that I switched it to 60. I would’ve liked 30, but 60 was fine.

Given the choice, I almost always choose resolution (like in Kena).
 
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Mar 16, 2014
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This!
Because if your 30fps game hurts my eyes, I ain't playing your game.
My eyes have adjusted to 60-120fps & they are never going back :p
I would suggest getting a PC then. That's the only way you can ensure your hardware can be constantly up-to-date to keep up with more demanding software.
 

MaulerX

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Let's face it. People talk about graphics and frames per second as if they were two completely separate things.

They're not. Higher frame rates are actually a big part of graphics. 60fps games have a clearer and cleaner image. Moving around in a 30fps game just looks like a juddery mess by comparison. Just go back and forth in games that support both.

Case in point when the Forza Horizon 5 previews came out yesterday, most people came away with the impression that the performance mode looked better than the quality mode. Higher frames per second will always trump a few extra blades of grass.
 
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Ammogeddon

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You may get some extra graphical effects and lod in 30fps but to my eye it doesn’t look or feel better. I used to be a naysayer but now the genie is out it’s not going back in.

I’m currently paying ACV again and I find “quality” mode unbearable. Not only does it judder, it looks out of focus. It’s not a patch on 60fps when it comes to a sharp picture and smooth movement. If it’s lacking resolution, meh, I’ll take the hit any day.

Now if all developers go the way insomniac did with ratchets 120hz (45fps) mode then yeah, that looks amazing, I’d happily play that as a preferred choice for most games.
 
Mar 16, 2014
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You may get some extra graphical effects and lod in 30fps but to my eye it doesn’t look or feel better. I used to be a naysayer but now the genie is out it’s not going back in.

I’m currently paying ACV again and I find “quality” mode unbearable. Not only does it judder, it looks out of focus. It’s not a patch on 60fps when it comes to a sharp picture and smooth movement. If it’s lacking resolution, meh, I’ll take the hit any day.

Now if all developers go the way insomniac did with ratchets 120hz (45fps) mode then yeah, that looks amazing, I’d happily play that as a preferred choice for most games.
40fps

40x3=120

Each frame is displayed 3 times at 120Hz.
 

MiguelItUp

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Eh, I disagree. Not because I think it WILL be 60, but because it could be either. A beautiful engine is a beautiful engine, what is done with it is what matters in the long run. If 30, I'm sure some would prefer 60. If 60, I'm sure some would prefer 30.
 

Hunnybun

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You may get some extra graphical effects and lod in 30fps but to my eye it doesn’t look or feel better. I used to be a naysayer but now the genie is out it’s not going back in.

I’m currently paying ACV again and I find “quality” mode unbearable. Not only does it judder, it looks out of focus. It’s not a patch on 60fps when it comes to a sharp picture and smooth movement. If it’s lacking resolution, meh, I’ll take the hit any day.

Now if all developers go the way insomniac did with ratchets 120hz (45fps) mode then yeah, that looks amazing, I’d happily play that as a preferred choice for most games.

Yeah I think 40-45fps is probably actually the sweet spot this gen, but who knows if it'll be widely used. It looks fairly close to 60fps, and waaaaay better than 30.

If that was the compromise to, for example, have proper RT global illumination, then yeah that would be fine by me.
 
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Let's face it. People talk about graphics and frames per second as if they were two completely separate things.

They're not. Higher frame rates are actually a big part of graphics. 60fps games have a clearer and cleaner image. Moving around in a 30fps game just looks like a juddery mess by comparison. Just go back and forth in games that support both.

Case in point when the Forza Horizon 5 previews came out yesterday, most people came away with the impression that the performance mode looked better than the quality mode. Higher frames per second will always trump a few extra blades of grass.
I understand the concept that the temporal resolution is greater with 60 fps at say, 1440p vs 4k, but while they feel and look smoother in motion they are not "clearer". No, the higher res game is clearer and has the better IQ. Take almost any game that has a 1440p/60, it will suffer from pixel breakup or shimmering whereas the quality mode won't. Ac Valhalla for example.

Until we get a better upscaling method, like dlss we're going to be compromised on image quality in either mode. Occasionally we'll get a game like Ratchet that has amazing upscaling where the 1440p mode is seemingly flawless but even still, the 4k quality mode in that game has more graphical effects and oomph that it makes choosing again feel like I have to compromise.
 
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I beat every race with 3 stars in DriveClub and all of the DLC as well as Bikes. Your brain is amazing at figuring out the timing of the controls and it’s no problem.

Also, I tried playing Spider-Man and R&C at 60, but I just didn’t like how they looked and felt like that. It just seemed too arcade like and ruined that movie quality for me. Also, the animations looked weird to me at higher frame rates.

That being said though, I wouldn’t play DOOM or Call of Duty at 30fps, but action adventure games and third person games, hell yeah 30 is preferred.

I also wanted to play little nightmares 2 at 30, but the frame pacing was so messed up that I switched it to 60. I would’ve liked 30, but 60 was fine.

Given the choice, I almost always choose resolution (like in Kena).
Little nightmares 2 on ps5 looks incredible!
 

Akuji

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A game that looks like tlou 2 or god of war 2018 looks good enough for me to answer the question : what Do you want more, better graphics or 60fps? I always go with 60fps. Demon souls 60fps looks great and feels way better then the 30fps option.

Will more Ressources per Frame make the frame prettier? Yeah. Of course. But what the fuck am we Talking about ? Where does it matter.
 

Inviusx

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To me, 60fps is defining this generation at the moment, I haven't purchased or played a single 30fps game since November 2020. I want to see 30fps left in past.

If the best looking games of this generation end up being a native 30fps, I won't be buying them, simple as.
 
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Basil King

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Are performance and quality modes just going to disappear? If so I don’t plan on buying any games that are only 30fps. I don’t care about ray tracing, just give me that 60fps.

You can’t go backwards. Last gen systems were garbage and that’s why we were stuck with 30. Hell I won’t even play a FPS without a FOV slider (sorry deathloop and far cry). Next gen isn’t just about pretty graphics it’s about a better performance.
 
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The thing is though, 30fps is smooth. When 30fps is NOT smooth, is when you switch from 60fps to 30fps suddenly. These people with graphics and frame rate options on their consoles switch to 60 and then go back to 30 and they're like.... ewwww, 30 is garbage... I can't play anything at 30 anymore, it's like a slideshow and you can't see anything because it's so blurry and clunky. No, it's not. It only seems that way because you didn't give your eyes and brain time to adjust to it.

I was just playing Jedi Fallen Order on my PS5 the other day and I had it on resolution/30fps mode and it was very responsive and clean and sharp. I didn't notice any blurring or feeling like it's a slideshow, but that's because I didn't start it on 60 and then flip it to 30. It plays perfectly in 30fps and for me, I prefer the higher details of 4K.... it looks too soft at 60fps on my monitor.

im glad there's actually some people that can differ 1080-1300p from native 4k, props to you sir
 

TGO

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So like 30 vs 60FPS running on teh same 60Hz display?
Display refresh rate does not effect framerate
There is a difference
This is like doubling the framerate of 30fps video by only adjusting it's output framerate
It will look choppy
This why you need to interpolate a videos framerate instead of just doubling it's framerate in the output settings.
 
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Razvedka

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This is one of the stupidest opinions I've ever read here on GAF since the diaspora.
From a technical perspective he's mostly right. You're giving the silicon twice the time to work on the resulting image. It's mathematical.

Arguing this point is like stating that 60FPS 'isnt always more fluid than 30FPS'. I mean yes it is, literally that's the entire point of doubling the framerate. Conversely, 30FPS titles simply have more resources to work with to make the game look better.

There are people here who are actively pretending that because the CPUs are better this gen that there shouldn't really be any trade offs to get 60fps and that's ridiculous. You'll be giving up resolution and/or effects to hit the framerate targets every time, unless the entire game isn't exactly 'ambitious' graphically to begin with.
 
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T0minator

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From a technical perspective he's mostly right. You're giving the silicon twice the time to work on the resulting image. It's mathematical.

Arguing this point is like stating that 60FPS 'isnt always more fluid than 30FPS'. I mean yes it is, literally that's the entire point of doubling the framerate. Conversely, 30FPS titles simply have more resources to work with to make the game look better.

There are people here who are actively pretending that because the CPUs are better this gen that there shouldn't really be any trade offs to get 60fps and that's ridiculous. You'll be giving up resolution and/or effects to hit the framerate targets every time, unless the entire game isn't exactly 'ambitious' graphically to begin with.
Exactly, game development is all about efficiency and actually using clever tricks to get the most out of their engines. Not just the hardware. It starts with the game engine...

Some devs will create a brilliant game engine that can produce amazing visuals at 60fps....but to push those visuals even further, more physics, better animation, lighting, whatever. The frame rates will have to be lowered to render those graphics. Yes PS5 pro will eventually help with that. But PS5s best looking games years from now will eventually be maxed at 30fps. On the standard model. Those games will look mind blowing in reveal trailers initially
 
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Exactly, game development is all about efficiency and actually using clever tricks to get the most out of their engines. Not just the hardware. It starts with the game engine...

Some devs will create a brilliant game engine that can produce amazing visuals at 60fps....but to push those visuals even further, more physics, better animation, lighting, whatever. The frame rates will have to be lowered to render those graphics. Yes PS5 pro will eventually help with that. But PS5s best looking games years from now will eventually be maxed at 30fps. On the standard model. Those games will look mind blowing in reveal trailers initially
Not really sure we'll get a PS5 Pro this time around.

I think Sony's push for the Pro was because 4K TVs were becoming increasingly popular and they wanted their console to take advantage of them. However, 4K is not pretty much standard and there's no real need to try to push for 8K now as 4K is plenty of definition to last the generation. That's just my take.

They might still release a PS5 Pro only to accommodate the "hardcore" crowd that always wants the latest and greatest tech, but the majority of people last gen only bought the regular PS4. I'm also fairly certain they've stopped production on the PS4 Pro models but they're still making base PS4s.
 

ZoukGalaxy

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You are 100% right and I'm totally fine with gorgeous game @ 30FPS well implemented, that's the most important thing.
I don't give a shit to 60 FPS, it can die and re-die, and YES, I clearly see the difference but I still don't give a shit.

Hop Off Leave Me Alone GIF by The Walking Dead
 
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You are 100% right and I'm totally fine with gorgeous game @ 30FPS well implemented, that's the most important thing.
I don't give a shit to 60 FPS, it can die and re-die, and YES, I clearly see the difference but I still don't give a shit.

Hop Off Leave Me Alone GIF by The Walking Dead
I also love how people all of a sudden act like it's their first time playing any 60fps games and therefore they can't ever play a 30fps one ever again. Weren't there loads and loads of 60fps games on last gen consoles? The Battlefield series, Doom, Doom Eternal, CoD (all), Fortnite, Battlefront 1, 2, TLOU1, Uncharted Remaster Collection, Outlast 1, 2, Resident Evil 2, 3, 7, 8, Metal Gear, Titanfall 2, Inside, Wolfenstein, Rocket League, Mortal Kombat... etc. There were loads of 60fps games yet people could play Doom and then play Uncharted 4 no problem.
 

MaulerX

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I understand the concept that the temporal resolution is greater with 60 fps at say, 1440p vs 4k, but while they feel and look smoother in motion they are not "clearer". No, the higher res game is clearer and has the better IQ. Take almost any game that has a 1440p/60, it will suffer from pixel breakup or shimmering whereas the quality mode won't. Ac Valhalla for example.

Until we get a better upscaling method, like dlss we're going to be compromised on image quality in either mode. Occasionally we'll get a game like Ratchet that has amazing upscaling where the 1440p mode is seemingly flawless but even still, the 4k quality mode in that game has more graphical effects and oomph that it makes choosing again feel like I have to compromise.


Yes the picture does indeed look clearer.

Play a game and move and pan the camera around. The image of a game at 60fps looks clearer because you're not seeing that judder that plagues games at lower resolutions. Try it in games that support both 60fps and 30fps. Going back and forth is pretty drastic.

You can argue that when not a in motion there's no difference. Fair enough. But these aren't still pictures we're playing.