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[AJUMP23]

I thought we were talking about the wrongful termination of a young woman because she was deemed to have wrong think by a weirdo.

 

[SF Kosmo]

But the burning question: why is it so important that a bunch of ugly dudes are allowed to dress up as prostitutes and read to kids?

Even God queen Sasha Gray dressed with some class when doing it ffs.

Is... is this what you think prostitutes dress like?

The whole point is that it's campy and colorful and silly, that's why kids like it. It's not "important" it's just a fun thing thing that kids like.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Here are the questions nobody is asking about the artform of sexualized caricatures of women reading to children...

Why does it have to happen? Why do you want it to happen? And why do you think you have a right to everyone else's children with supporting and arguing for it?

It's just a fun thing for kids to do, they like it, because Drag Queens are essentially living cartoon characters.

No one is making anyone else's kids do anything. You're the one who seems to be saying it shouldn't be allowed, so the burden is on you to say why.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Is... is this what you think prostitutes dress like?

The whole point is that it's campy and colorful and silly, that's why kids like it. It's not "important" it's just a fun thing thing that kids like.

or you could, you know, just hire colorful characters to read/entertain kids that are not trying to push some agenda or change their sexualities/genders etc. And you hand picked the nicer dressed ones, I've seen videos of some shoving their crotch in 5 year olds faces while lip syncing Cardi B songs, so spare me.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's just a fun thing for kids to do, they like it, because Drag Queens are essentially living cartoon characters.

No one is making anyone else's kids do anything. You're the one who seems to be saying it shouldn't be allowed, so the burden is on you to say why.

Cartoon character costumes are essentially living cartoon characters.

And you said it, men dressing in drag are cartoon characters of women. See that ladies, you're a joke to them

Oh the horror, I don't think a subculture that is 99% overly sexualized men in dress up clowning on women strippers, should be indoctrinated to 5 yearolds. The horror!

Who likes it? The kids? Are you advocating for children having consent? Kids like a lot of things that are flashy, does not mean we open an adult lifestyle world to them.

 

[SF Kosmo]

or you could, you know, just hire colorful characters to read/entertain kids that are not trying to push some agenda or change their sexualities/genders etc.

Drag Queens aren't trying to change genders, dude. They're not trans. And there's nothing vaguely sexual about these events they're literally at public libraries.

And you hand picked the nicer dressed ones

I didn't, I googled "Drag Queen Story Hour" and shared the first pictures I saw.

I've seen videos of some shoving their crotch in 5 year olds faces while lip syncing Cardi B songs, so spare me.

What the fuck videos are you watching? This has never happened at a fucking Drag Queen Story Hour event, ever.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Cartoon costumes are essentially living cartoon characters.

And you said it, men dressing in drag are cartoon characters of women.

Oh the horror, I don't think a subculture that is 99% overly sexualized men in dress up clowning on women strippers, should be indoctrinated to 5 yearolds. The horror!

What do you feel is being "indoctrinated" in this context of children's performance, other than it's okay for people to dress silly?

And is "indoctrination" in general really your issue? I imagine you indoctrinate your children with whatever values and morals you like, right?

 

[DeepEnigma]

What do you feel is being "indoctrinated" in this context of children's performance, other than it's okay for people to dress silly?

And is "indoctrination" in general really your issue? I imagine you indoctrinate your children with whatever values and morals you like, right?

Drag is a sexualized adult lifestyle. There is no other reason to invite them to read to 5 years old's, other than to "plant seeds." The end. Teachers can read a book to their students.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Drag is a sexualized adult lifestyle. There is no other reason to invite them to read to 5 years old's, other than to "plant seeds."

The reason is just that kids respond to it.

The end. Teachers can read a book to their students.

They can but it's not as exciting as someone who is very colorful and theatrical and who is a professional performer.

 

[SaucyJack]

No the fuck I am not. I am responding to someone who was specifically talking about a Drag Queens reading to children in libraries.


Again, you need to go back and read the post I was responding to, and the context of that comment. It was.specifically about the G-rated children's entertainment that they do in parks and libraries, which is very much a thing that exists.

You might want to reread. The first comment you responded wasn't even quoting you.

I stand by the second one where I did quote you.

You said "People love to posture that it's about sexual content or whatever but then when pressed that's always a lie". I accused you of peddling in absolutes, which is exactly what this is. It's also, in itself, false.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The reason is just that kids respond to it.

 

[gaming_again]

A decade ago this caused outrage.

 

[DeepEnigma]

QWEEN hosted at ImgBB

Image QWEEN hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

A decade ago this caused outrage.

And we were all called tinfoilers when we mentioned "slippery slopes" to what we have today.

 

[gaming_again]

And we were all called tinfoilers when we mentioned "slippery slopes" to what we have today.

Pattern recognition.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I stand by the second one where I did quote you.

You said "People love to posture that it's about sexual content or whatever but then when pressed that's always a lie". I accused you of peddling in absolutes, which is exactly what this is. It's also, in itself, false.

What that means is that I'm describing a context with no sexualization or apparent harm to children, and yet it's still being equivocated as such.

And of course I don't mean that it is literally always the case, but there's a repeated patter of people here ignoring every argument to try to equivocate it to something that is "just concern for children" and then when pressed doubling down as against it broadly even when kids safety isn't issue. I've seen a dozen different posters here do this exact pattern in this thread, and that's what I'm calling out.

 

[SaucyJack]

A decade ago this caused outrage.

I imagine that the children were not particularly familiar with her work, nor does it seem to be getting promoted in any way.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I imagine that the children were not particularly familiar with her work, nor does it seem to be getting promoted in any way.

That's his point. People were outraged back when it happened, but we are not allowed to push back on the blatant pushing of an agenda in current year.

 

[ReBurn]

We're not talking about sexual content, we're talking about reading stories to children in libraries.

Do you realize how dishonest your arguments are or can you literally not see a drag queen in any context without thinking about sex? That might be a you problem.

So I have a question about that. What value is added for the child if the person who is reading the story is dressed in drag? What is the purpose of it in relationship to the activity?

That person can just as easily show up and read to kids without dressing up in drag. The kids would receive exactly the same interaction and hear exactly the same story regardless of how the reader is dressed. That's what specifically makes the fact that they're drag queens become the issue, because that's the thing the people doing the reading have chosen to emphasize. It's a way to make it about being in drag when reading to children, not just about reading to children. Lots of people who aren't dressed in drag regularly read to kids, so it's not like there was a huge gap in education or childhood interaction that nobody was willing to fill.

Drag shows, while fun, are typically sexually charged and filled with profanity and all sorts of innuendo. That's what makes them fun adult entertainment. Now we see drag shows being held for children in bars where performers are performing sexually suggestive dances for children and children are being encouraged to tip them. The video is out there so there is no denying that it has happened. Is it really that much of a stretch for people to make the assumption that one of the reasons for drag queens to show up at libraries and schools in drag to read for children might be to condition them into acceptance and normalization of what has largely been a somewhat controversial subculture characterized by overt sexuality as part of the gimmick?

I mean, I don't have a dog in the fight because it doesn't impact me in any way. I don't have kids that could be caught in the middle. But from an outside looking in perspective it's easy to see how people connected the dots and came to the conclusion that the intent of doing one thing is to lead to the other. It's like when religious organizations target kids to try to perpetuate the religion. They make it fun and relatable as a way to influence how kids think about it because they know it's too late to get the parents on board. Make anything fun enough and kids, being feral creatures with a malleable sense of morality, will accept it.

 

[Azurro]

What? Why?

People love to posture that it's about sexual content or whatever but then when pressed that's always a lie, it's just queerness in general they have an issue with even when it's totally G-rated.

Like it's literally people dressed up silly reading books to kids, how is this an issue?

Jesus Christ, drag queens are men that derive sexual pleasure from dressing up as an exaggerated version of a woman, do suggestive dances and perform sexual comedy. OF COURSE THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR A CHILD.

Jesus F Christ, it's like people see that stupid multicolored flag and their brain just falls off their cranium.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Jesus Christ, drag queens are men that derive sexual pleasure from dressing up as an exaggerated version of a woman, do suggestive dances and perform sexual comedy. OF COURSE THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR A CHILD.

Jesus F Christ, it's like people see that stupid multicolored flag and their brain just falls off their cranium.

Now you know why collectivism is a thing. It's to take away all context and nuance.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Jesus Christ, drag queens are men that derive sexual pleasure from dressing up as an exaggerated version of a woman,

Um, no?

do suggestive dances and perform sexual comedy. OF COURSE THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR A CHILD.

But they aren't doing that, they're reading storybooks.

Jesus F Christ, it's like people see that stupid multicolored flag and their brain just falls off their cranium.

Or like they see one and they can't stop thinking about sex...

 

[ADiTAR]

I hope we can agree that there's never black and white, and lots of shades in the middle.

Yes, some drag queens are performing in sexual getups that are not fit for children, and I think that's wrong. And also yes, some drag queens do storybook hours for kids which they are dressed in colorful fun outfits, basically clowns with a lot of makeup, and some of them even calls themselves that way, i.e Bianca Del Rio. And I think that's totally fine.

 

[SF Kosmo]

So I have a question about that. What value is added for the child if the person who is reading the story is dressed in drag? What is the purpose of it in relationship to the activity?

I think I've answered that, they're just colorful and silly and funny and wear a lot of makeup. It's like halfway between a clown and storybook princess. What little girl wouldn't respond to that?

That person can just as easily show up and read to kids without dressing up in drag. The kids would receive exactly the same interaction and hear exactly the same story regardless of how the reader is dressed. That's what specifically makes the fact that they're drag queens become the issue, because that's the thing the people doing the reading have chosen to emphasize. It's a way to make it about being in drag when reading to children, not just about reading to children. Lots of people who aren't dressed in drag regularly read to kids, so it's not like there was a huge gap in education or childhood interaction that nobody was willing to fill.

Again, it's not about filling a gap, or that they HAVE TO BE anything, it's just a thing that kids like that is perfectly harmless.

It's up to you to answer "why not."

Drag shows, while fun, are typically sexually charged and filled with profanity and all sorts of innuendo.

Again, this isn't about night club drag shows. Drag performers do all kinds of shows, including some that are perfectly appropriate for kids.

Stand-up comedy is typically and traditionally raunchy as well, but you wouldn't get up in arms about someone taking their kids to see Jim Gaffigan because it might be some kind of gateway drug to Doug Stanhope, would you? Of course not.

That's what makes them fun adult entertainment. Now we see drag shows being held for children in bars where performers are performing sexually suggestive dances for children and children are being encouraged to tip them. The video is out there so there is no denying that it has happened.

Yeah, and that's bad parenting and shouldn't happen. Typically children are not allowed in such shows.

 

[rofif]

Is... is this what you think prostitutes dress like?

The whole point is that it's campy and colorful and silly, that's why kids like it. It's not "important" it's just a fun thing thing that kids like.

exactly. For kids, these are just fun people who are not so stiff like other adults probably

 

[MudoSkills]

 

[LegendOfKage]

I hope we can agree that there's never black and white, and lots of shades in the middle.

Yes, some drag queens are performing in sexual getups that are not fit for children, and I think that's wrong. And also yes, some drag queens do storybook hours for kids which they are dressed in colorful fun outfits, basically clowns with a lot of makeup, and some of them even calls themselves that way, i.e Bianca Del Rio. And I think that's totally fine.

This is where I land on the issue as well. It would be nice to see both sides of this debate embracing nuance and not minimizing what they feel is inconvenient to their argument. Anyone who reads to kids or performs in front of kids has the potential to be perfectly appropriate or wildly inappropriate, and I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of each.

 

[Fully engaged]

This is getting really dumb. People have totally moved to zero tolerance. No one should have zero tolerance to anyone if we want to a have a better society. This goes both ways. Woke activist need to stop trying to cancel people for "Opinions" or who they follow, and people who feel uncomfortable with drag need to calm down. You people would cancel Prince.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Is... is this what you think prostitutes dress like?

The whole point is that it's campy and colorful and silly, that's why kids like it. It's not "important" it's just a fun thing thing that kids like.

Or just use common sense and be skeptical of any grown man that wants to spend time with other people's children?

Obviously most drag queens aren't pedophiles but red flags better be going up if you see adult males taking positions to be near kids.

All this kumbaya stuff sounds great on the internet but your position will change if anything happened to your kid.

 

[Toons]

This is where I land on the issue as well. It would be nice to see both sides of this debate embracing nuance and not minimizing what they feel is inconvenient to their argument. Anyone who reads to kids or performs in front of kids has the potential to be perfectly appropriate or wildly inappropriate, and I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of each.

Yeah if I had a drag person read some stuff at my school as a kid I wouldn't have cared that much. Probably would have been entertained. My parents might have but I wouldn't have. Wouldnt have turned out trans either.

Though you'll hear alot about "agendas" and "sending messages" that's all bulls***. Drag has been getting shown to kids for over 70 years.

No one really cared about all this then. Its a well known staples of entertainment and comedy routines. There are far more examples than this, and the Bugs Bunny stuff was actually sexually charged and he would flirt with other males which makes it even more hilarious that it goes ignored while reading a book has folks clutching their pearls. I watched this stuff as a kid and my conservative leaning religious dad didn't bat an eye.

This is a further example of the tribalism were seeing where things that were once normal and regular concurrence now get things like "agenda" attached to them with implications of corrupting children.

Folks that ship has long since sailed if that's the case lol.

Are there situations where drag is inappropriate for a kid to be around? Absolutely. But a guy wearing women's clothing reading kids books to entertain kids isn't one of them.

 

[Toons]

Or just use common sense and be skeptical of any grown man that wants to spend time with other people's children?

Obviously most drag queens aren't pedophiles but red flags better be going up if you see adult males taking positions to be near kids.

All this kumbaya stuff sounds great on the internet but your position will change if anything happened to your kid.

You mean like... teachers? Gym coaches? Kids nurses? Clowns? Balloon Entertainers?

You gonna go after Mr. Rogers and the Wiggles next?

 

[Azurro]

Um, no?


But they aren't doing that, they're reading storybooks.


Or like they see one and they can't stop thinking about sex...

Look, it's obvious that it's to groom them into normalizing sexual behaviour, anyone can see it. If it was about reading them books, they wouldn't be dressed up in their fetish clothing, they want the children exposed to it. As for the flag, you don't even make sense here, that stupid flag is all about their sexuality and gender, that's what those colors represent.

Notice how you don't present an argument as to why people in fetish clothing should be interacting with children and instead just go with simply emotional responses? It's because you can't, and yet you continue to defend the behaviour. Why? Simple, because you see that dumb flag and immediately go "Everything LGBTQ+ does must be defended", with no prior criteria, morality or principles. Your ideology has melted your brain.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You mean like... teachers? Gym coaches? Kids nurses? Clowns? Balloon Entertainers?

You gonna go after Mr. Rogers and the Wiggles next?

What kind of jobs do you think pedophiles gravitate to?

Do I really need to say "Obviously not all male teachers are pedophiles"?

 

[Toons]

Look, it's obvious that it's to groom them into normalizing sexual behaviour, anyone can see it. If it was about reading them books, they wouldn't be dressed up in their fetish clothing, they want the children exposed to it. As for the flag, you don't even make sense here, that stupid flag is all about their sexuality and gender, that's what those colors represent.

Notice how you don't present an argument as to why people in fetish clothing should be interacting with children and instead just go with simply emotional responses? It's because you can't, and yet you continue to defend the behaviour. Why? Simple, because you see that dumb flag and immediately go "Everything LGBTQ+ does must be defended", with no prior criteria, morality or principles. Your ideology has melted your brain.

If you're calling those gaudy old fashioned dresses "fetish clothing" then maybe YOUR ideology has melted YOUR brain.

Because that isnt fetish clothing and it won't send sexual thoughts to any kids at all.

Literally straight out of the music video for Amish paradise where thr kids are looking at a "porn" msg of a lady showing shins

 

[Toons]

What kind of jobs do you think pedophiles gravitate to?

Do I really need to say "Obviously not all male teachers are pedophiles"?

.
You yourself said that its best to be skeptical of any man who wants a job around children, I'm just taking you to task on that. Because we let pass by a whole lot of jobs that cater to children and are filled by adults, because duh. Kids cant do it. You're not actually making a point when you say this is what I'm saying. We accept tons of roles of adults with the explicit intent if being around children.

And yes that allows for bad actors to get close to them at times. But that isn't a fault of the occupations themselves but the society they take place in and the men who aren't vetted properly being allowed in them.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If you're calling those gaudy old fashioned dresses "fetish clothing" then maybe YOUR ideology has melted YOUR brain.

Because that isnt fetish clothing and it won't send sexual thoughts to any kids at all.

For every gaudy dress (which they started to wear after the initial criticism in full on drag stripper wear), there are pictures of one's provocative and downright hellish/occult looking. We are just not stooping to cherry picking photos level.

Hell, one showed up to a reading in a hooker skirt and no underwear and the kids sitting got full view of his twigs and berries.... he was also a registered sex offender.

 

[Toons]

For every gaudy dress (which they started to wear after the initial criticism in full on drag stripper wear), there are pictures of one's provocative and downright hellish/occult looking. We are just not stooping to cherry picking photos level.

Hell, one showed up to a reading in a hooker skirt and no underwear and the kids sitting got full view of his twigs and berries.... he was also a registered sex offender.

Well that is something I have a problem with of course. But call that out when it happens. Its obviously not inherent to drag, a woman could wear inappropriate dress to these things as well and it would still be a problem.

That's an issue with the school and who they allowed to perform in that outfit. That doesnt mean the entire program is intended for, or features that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well that is something I have a problem with of course. But call that out when it happens. Its obviously not inherent to drag, a woman could wear inappropriate dress to these things as well and it would still be a problem.

That's an issue with the school and who they allowed to perform in that outfit. That doesnt mean the entire program is intended for, or features that.

That's the issue, people are so lost in the ideological sauce, they don't do their due diligence. Like, you know, doing background checks for grown men wanting to read to children dressed in their fetish wear. When the virtue is so strong, you let all the normal safely checks slip through the cracks.

Once again, there is no logical reason that has been explained why drag queens need to read to children, and that this needs to be a thing where they even call it "Drag Queen Story Hour." You can have an author of the kid's book or a teacher do it. They can even wear a character Halloween outfit if they like.

 

[Azurro]

If you're calling those gaudy old fashioned dresses "fetish clothing" then maybe YOUR ideology has melted YOUR brain.

Because that isnt fetish clothing and it won't send sexual thoughts to any kids at all.

Literally straight out of the music video for Amish paradise where thr kids are looking at a "porn" msg of a lady showing shins

Answer me something, why do these people target children? It's not about reading books, otherwise they would be there without the fetish clothes. Just answer me that.

 

[RJMacready73]

Drag is a sexualized adult lifestyle. There is no other reason to invite them to read to 5 years old's, other than to "plant seeds." The end. Teachers can read a book to their students.

Aye M8, sexualised adult lifestyle..

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You yourself said that its best to be skeptical of any man who wants a job around children, I'm just taking you to task on that. Because we let pass by a whole lot of jobs that cater to children and are filled by adults, because duh.

No we don't.

Red flags come in all sizes and number. We judge and discriminate everyone we come across.

I'm more skeptical of a 50 year old man who dresses in womens clothes and volunteers to spend his time reading to kids than I am a male teacher...but no one gets a pass.

Degree is something that is often not talked about in conversations like this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Aye M8, sexualised adult lifestyle..

No kinks.

 

[Billbofet]

Answer me something, why do these people target children? It's not about reading books, otherwise they would be there without the fetish clothes. Just answer me that.

Good question. Genuinely curious, but do these drag queens go to nursing homes to stimulate and excite the elderly?

 

[RJMacready73]

Answer me something, why do these people target children? It's not about reading books, otherwise they would be there without the fetish clothes. Just answer me that.

Fuck sakes do you even have children?

 

[Azurro]

Fuck sakes do you even have children?

I don't need to have children to have a morality framework. Why do they target children and read to them in get up meant for adult entertainment? Just answer me that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Good question. Genuinely curious, but do these drag queens go to nursing homes to stimulate and excite the elderly?

I'm pretty sure "Drag Queen Story Hour" is not a thing for the elderly. Strippers on the other hand...

 

[gothmog]

Lol. You know you've hit rock bottom in an argument when you get to the "won't someone think of the children?" phase. What does any of this shit have to do with games, Limited Run Games, or the woman who was fired by them?

 

[cormack12]

Aye M8, sexualised adult lifestyle..

Wait are we sharing our first crushes now?

 

[SF Kosmo]

Look, it's obvious that it's to groom them into normalizing sexual behaviour, anyone can see it. If it was about reading them books, they wouldn't be dressed up in their fetish clothing, they want the children exposed to it. As for the flag, you don't even make sense here, that stupid flag is all about their sexuality and gender, that's what those colors represent.

Notice how you don't present an argument as to why people in fetish clothing should be interacting with children and instead just go with simply emotional responses? It's because you can't, and yet you continue to defend the behaviour. Why? Simple, because you see that dumb flag and immediately go "Everything LGBTQ+ does must be defended", with no prior criteria, morality or principles. Your ideology has melted your brain.

It's not a fetish, dude, drag performance is just entertainment. It's for fun. You sound like a crazy person.

And someone being gay isn't inherently "sexual" any more than someone being straight is.

 

[Toons]

That's the issue, people are so lost in the ideological sauce, they don't do their due diligence. Like, you know, doing background checks for grown men wanting to read to children dressed in their fetish wear. When the virtue is so strong, you let all the normal safely checks slip through the cracks.

Once again, there is no logical reason that has been explained why drag queens need to read to children, and that this needs to be a thing where they even call it "Drag Queen Story Hour." You can have an author of the kid's book or a teacher do it. They can even wear a character Halloween outfit if they like.

Its entertaining. They are actors and know ow to emphasize things to make them exciting. If you ever watch how adults in kids programming speak jte with the intent to entertain and keep their attention. You can't tell me these folks won't capture attention which is one of rhe most important goals of young kids education. Something that having some author the kid won't even know there. Not to mention authors usually are busy being authors. Or living in another state.

These guys can be entertainers and they are playing a character. Theres no real issue.

 

[Azurro]

Lol. You know you've hit rock bottom in an argument when you get to the "won't someone think of the children?" phase. What does any of this shit have to do with games, Limited Run Games, or the woman who was fired by them?

This is a poor attempt at deflection, I don't know how the conversation got here, but now that we are here, answer the question: why do these people in get up meant for adult entertainment target children? It's not to read to them, because if they were it would not be in that get up. Answer.

It's not a fetish, dude, it's just entertainment. You sound like a crazy person.

It's people dressed up in gear meant for adult entertainment and they are specifically targeting children. It's simple, just answer me why they need to be in their adult entertainment get up to read to them instead of deflecting.