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[Vampire On Titus]

At which point I'd argue that the child will most likely have been influenced by the adults that surround them.

The kids depicted on the front of that book don't look old enough to understand the ramifications of such a life changing decision.

Again, I think you're conflating just being a transgender kid (having a gender identity that's not aligned with your biological sex) and actually medically transitioning.

I'm with you that children can't understand the ramifications of that kind of bodily change. But if the book is simply help and tips for raising a child with gender dysphoria, I don't see the issue.

Just to bring it back to the game, Tyler Ronan did not medically transition as a child (he did at age 19) and the game doesn't advocate that.

 

[mckmas8808]

At which point I'd argue that the child will most likely have been influenced by the adults that surround them.

The kids depicted on the front of that book don't look old enough to understand the ramifications of such a life changing decision.

Nah. There's been studies done on this. Kids show signs that they are sometimes. Now it doesn't mean they should be first in line to get "the surgery". That's another conversation.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Personally I'm just happy me and the wife decided to not have kids.

 

[ExpandKong]

Nah. There's been studies done on this. Kids show signs that they are sometimes. Now it doesn't mean they should be first in line to get "the surgery". That's another conversation.

Were these studies conducted by the same caliber of researcher that recently demonstrated that white doctors love nothing more than watching black babies die?

 

[mckmas8808]

Were these studies conducted by the same caliber of researcher that recently demonstrated that white doctors love nothing more than watching black babies die?

No.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Did they really say that?
I have no interest in this game, but I could respect this warning and would be okay that a game like this exists for people that don't share the same interests as I do.

It's not a warning, it's discrimination. Assuming people won't enjoy this or that simply because of what they look like, over immutable physical traits or even their sexuality, that's literally discrimination.

It's not cool when it's done to POC or LGBT, it shouldn't be okay when it's done to white people (or what tends to usually be the case, cishet white male Christians).

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Tell me why you played this in the first place? We had a few threads about it and it was pretty obvious what the game was in the first place.

 

[aries_71]

So basically:
- straight people bad
- zero tolerance if you misgender me
- old people bad
- parents bad

I heard there's a forum where this shit will fly. I'll pass.

 

[DogofWar]

Remember Me, is that the game were you walk around a house and find diary entries from a lesbian girl?

Yeah I think I will give this one a pass as well. That screenshot in the OP is hilarious though.

As for the people who say "b-but just respect peoples pronouns!" from now on I want you to refer to me as "good boy" as I am the Dog of War after all. If you ever refer to me as anything else I will be triggered. Just respect it xirs!

 

[M1chl]

Remember Me, is that the game were you walk around a house and find diary entries from a lesbian girl?

Yeah I think I will give this one a pass as well. That screenshot in the OP is hilarious though.

As for the people who say "b-but just respect peoples pronouns!" from now on I want you to refer to me as "good boy" as I am the Dog of War after all. If you ever refer to me as anything else I will be triggered. Just respect it xirs!

 

[DogofWar]

So not that game then, it was a game like that free in PS+ once. I never figured it out. I could've sworn it was called Remember Me... Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Barnabot]

Remember Me, is that the game were you walk around a house and find diary entries from a lesbian girl?

Yeah I think I will give this one a pass as well. That screenshot in the OP is hilarious though.

As for the people who say "b-but just respect peoples pronouns!" from now on I want you to refer to me as "good boy" as I am the Dog of War after all. If you ever refer to me as anything else I will be triggered. Just respect it xirs!

just because you are funny i won't mispronounce you with zero fucks given.

good boy

 

[Ellery]

It's not a warning, it's discrimination. Assuming people won't enjoy this or that simply because of what they look like, over immutable physical traits or even their sexuality, that's literally discrimination.

It's not cool when it's done to POC or LGBT, it shouldn't be okay when it's done to white people (or what tends to usually be the case, cishet white male Christians).

I don't disagree.

ping

Yo what's up my friend why are you pinging me ? I remember you from the last of us threads. I am glad I am still in your head.

 

[Jon Neu]

Yo what's up my friend why are you pinging me ? I remember you from the last of us threads. I am glad I am still in your head.

You weren't, I just went to the Last Of Us thread to actually notice your existence there while trying to remember other notable crazy SJW apologists.

At some point I just got bored of looking through the pages of that thread and you just happened to be in those last pages I read. I'm sure I left out a lot of people, like for example that Phunkydiabetic guy that has posted in this thread.

My apologies to everyone who deserved to be pinged but wasn't.

 

[Ellery]

You weren't, I just went to the Last Of Us thread to actually notice your existence there while trying to remember other notable crazy SJW apologists.

At some point I just got bored of looking through the pages of that thread and you just happened to be in those last pages I read. I'm sure I left out a lot of people, like for example that Phunkydiabetic guy that has posted in this thread.

My apologies to everyone who deserved to be pinged but wasn't.

Did you just call me a "notable crazy SJW apologist" ?

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Did you just call me a "notable crazy SJW apologist" ?

"There is a thread that contains a trans/rightwing/sjw discussion? Quick, to the trans-mobile!"

That's what it seems like with Jon Neu . It's his schtick. And unless you fit into the tight compact echo chambered box he deems ok, you are lumped into one of the handful of catchphrases he trots out regularly. No need for discussion or nuance or understanding here sir.

 

[Jon Neu]

That's what it seems like with Jon Neu . It's his schtick. And unless you fit into the tight compact echo chambered box he deems ok, you are lumped into one of the handful of catchphrases he trots out regularly. No need for discussion or nuance or understanding here sir.

ISSA JOKE.

I know you all are strong independent thinkers™ who happens to be always on the side of the SJW apologists by mere coincidence.

Did you just call me a "notable crazy SJW apologist" ?

Well, I wouldn't say notable...

 

[Alexios]

Surely any kind of pay off and development from the initial jumping point to the story/characters would come after episode 1 you say you played through so maybe it's less depressing later on?

Also for people having a hard time it's common to feel better just knowing they're not alone in that situation and media like games, music, movies etc., around sad subjects are popular for that reason even if they don't have a happy end.

How's that news to you? Only a sub section of media are escapist fantasies. You don't have to like anything else for your own consumption but to find it weird that others do consume such material is, well, weird itself. Now you know I guess.

 

[Soodanim]

Life is Strange 1 was really good. Before the Storm kinda rode it's coat tails a bit but it was okay. Didn't play LiS2 because of the wokeness, and won't play this for the same reason. I believe they came right out and said in their promo materials and press releases "If you're a straight white person, this game is not for you."

Sad when I won't even play your game when it's free.

I don't really see the issue here. Games can be marketed at whoever they want, and as with any game it can either go the mass appeal route or the niche/developer's vision route. 2 went the niche route. I'm not interested in any game where the dev might as well come out and say "If you don't masturbate to games, this game is not for you", and I'm not upset by that. I get why it's a bit different for a sequel, but that's when sales and reviews do the talking of whether it was worth sacrificing fans.

For what it's worth, I hear 2 is shit anyway.

 

[Ellery]

Well, I wouldn't say notable...

I hope whatever makes your life this miserable won't hold you down for much longer.

I am honest when I say I would listen to your problems, even though you repeatedly insulted, belittled and talked in condescending ways to/about me, and help you get through it.

Just pm me. No judgement. No questions asked. I am there if you need help.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

So this thread is funny cause on REEEE ERA. They are literally screaming (and VICE review ) that this is not progressive enough and that it is not correct way to show a trans-character because the character is not being abused 24/7.

Fuck it I'll give this game a go, since REEE is now spiraling out of control

Yeah, it must suck for Dontnod that they make very niche games and then the target audience complains it's not good enough (it never is). They even worked with Glaad to make sure they wouldn't offend anybody.

VICE complained about TLOU2 too and they are the most woke website out there. Stop pandering to them already.

 

[TLZ]

M1chl you poor soul.

 

[Jon Neu]

How's that news to you? Only a sub section of media are escapist fantasies. You don't have to like anything else but to find it weird that others do consume such material is, well, weird.

We are talking about such an extremist political propaganda that is so potentially harmful for little kids. It's not some people liking a fishing game, it's literally celebrating people messing with the sexuality and the well being of people who are defensesless against it because that makes them the ultimate "progressives". Look, my 6 years old kid is trans and I'm so happy for me, I mean her!

The creepyness and the more than probable child abuse involved into all this little kids that somehow parrot the fantasies of their parents about trans lifestyle is not just some "escapism" and "being acknowledged" in media.

Do games about trans people, but this trend of trying to fetishize little kids by making them "minorities" it's only going to bring misery to kids down the road.

 

[Dane]

Strongly disagree with the take in the OP, to the point where it feels like you played a different game entirely. This is coming from someone who was massively disappointing in Life Is Strange 2 and criticized it specifically for its cringe worthy political commentary and non-stop straw conservative caricatures. Tell Me Why handles its issues FAR more adeptly than Life is Strange 2.



When is there ever a political position advocated on the basis of Tyler's gender identity? Unless by identity politics you just mean "having a trans character at all."

Also, there are numerous straight characters who are presented as decent people. Even the ones who are insensitive towards Tyler are still humanized with sympathetic aspects. Eddy Brown is affectionately praised by Alyson and is shown to be accepting of Tyler despite their issues, Tom Vecchi is portrayed as a perfectly pleasant normal dude, Alyson is straight so far as I could tell (mentions having an ex boyfriend) and she, of course, is portrayed positively. Hell, even Sam, the person who comes off really badly in regards to Tyler's trans identity is still shown to be a caring dude who took care of the Twins' house and cared after their mother. He's not portrayed as some monstrous bigot, just a guy who is down on his luck, behind the times and winds up saying some insensitive shit. Tyler can choose to lay into him or be more cordial depending on the option the player chooses, so you can even opt to try and meet him half way.

So where are you getting this "all straight people are bad" thing? It's seriously not in the game.



...Except for all the characters that are accepting of it?



What are you talking about? Thats in no way portrayed in the game. Tyler explicitly mentions all the people who accepted him while he was a mentor. He mentions that they helped him feel like he had a home. Within two seconds of meeting Micheal they're bonding over their mutual love of fishing. In no way does the game portray that "everyone is against you, nobody will understand you" if you're trans. This is in your head.



At least study? You legit find out that she was accepting of Tyler's gender identity the whole time. You confirm it if you successfully solve the dialogue puzzle with Tessa. Which makes it really funny that you bring up the mother as an example of there being no nuance to anyone in the game. The whole story of their mom is that she may not have been the terrible person they assumed she was. Legit the most overtly transphobic character in the game is given depth, nuance, and a potential redemption arc. How are you bending that into just another person against Tyler?

Curious that i've heard that this game was surprisingly not pandering as expected, even Vice shilled against it, didn't see the complains, but it seemed like the reviewer didn't like that it wasn't portrayed as a transgender victimization and shit, other on twitter said it glorified the police LOL. Stevivor said it dealt with it better than TLOU 2.

Still, i'd be waiting for the rest and see what's people response.

 

[Alexios]

We are talking about such an extremist political propaganda that is so potentially harmful for little kids.

I don't see how it's harmful, that's your opinion and no more valid than people thinking kids playing GTA is harmful (if not less so given your motives for unfounded allegations). It's a 16+/17+ rated story, games are no longer just toys, if they ever were that, to treat them as such and make them all 2+ rated (but even many toys aren't such). Also I don't see how a parent with your views would be somehow oblivious to what the game's about and buy it for their kids anyway. Ok, maybe a kid will acquire it in some other way, just like they could find all kinds of unsuitable material in other ways.

 

[Jon Neu]

I don't see how it would be harmful

It's extremely harmful. Trans people and people with gender dysphoria are more prone to suicide and to have serious mental problems and depression.

You shouldn't indoctrinate little kids into such extremist matters. Even if it was innocuous, you shouldn't do it just for principles alone.

 

[Alexios]

It's extremely harmful.

Again, your opinion and not even an actual answer to what you quoted. A "how is it harmful" is asked, an "it is harmful" is answered, what? Where's a study showing people were harmed by this game? What is your field of expertise? Child psychology? Edit: you quote me asking about this game harming people and you just post links reiterating the following, which I don't dispute anywhere, bozo, try having an actual discussion and not going so completely off topic, your answers don't correlate to your questionable statements in any way and you don't respond to questions raised, lol?

Trans people and people with gender dysphoria are more prone to suicide and to have serious mental problems and depression.

Possibly true given the prejudice against them by ignorant and racist folks who should mind their own business but don't. But games don't cause gender dysphoria as far as I know. Do you have evidence someone committed suicide because of a story starting off sad in episode 1 of x and even if you get such evidence does it mean sad stories are never to be told ever again as precaution? We don't even know if the character makes some break through to get over his bad situation/get past potential depression/find a circle of people that don't judge him so much as the OP didn't get far.

You shouldn't indoctrinate little kids into such extremist matters. Even if it was innocuous, you shouldn't do it just for principles alone.

What does the game indoctrinate them into? It's a fictional story about someone and what they went through to my understanding and once again it's not meant for "little kids" but has the equivalent of a "mature" rating.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Basically this is all you have to see, to understand if you want to play it or not, because there is not much else:

Never thought I would see a game featuring a manual for child abuse...

 

[Golgo 13]

Man remember me was such a good game.

It's such a shame to see what this studio have become.

Do you think Wokeness/political correctness (same thing) as a whole has negatively affected entertainment?

 

[Kadayi]

So not that game then, it was a game like that free in PS+ once. I never figured it out. I could've sworn it was called Remember Me... Thanks for the clarification!

You're thinking of Gone Home

 

[recursive]

Alcohol is bad though... Literally. It's a poison to your system but i digress, it's socially acceptable therefore good!

I honestly don't see why you're so offended? So what? People have a different opinion on things from you and they do not share your point of view, again, so what? White people bad? Ah, i'm so hurt as a white person, so so hurt. Also the misgender thing... I'd get it if you didn't know before hand, but if someone says to you "call me by x pronoun or name" then just resepct the person and do it or just dont. Who care if you agree with their definition of gender? Just get on with your life and let them live theirs. If i asked someone to call me Gary and they started calling me Dave just to be a dick then i'd have zero tolerance with you too.

Its like, not all games are made just for you? weird right. If anything, shit like this is just reverse SJW. Those people are angry and outrage, you are angry and outraged, everyone is angry and outraged!

Sheeeeeeit, even i'm angry and outraged now! see what you've done!?

Are you ok? You seem tilted.

 

[Jon Neu]

Again, your opinion. Where's a study showing people were harmed by this game?

Study Shows Shocking Rates of Attempted Suicide Among Trans Teens

Harrowing statistics from a study revealed alarming levels of attempted suicide among transgender youth.

www.hrc.org

Trans teens much more likely to attempt suicide

Transgender adolescents are far more likely to attempt suicide than teens whose identity matches what it says on their birth certificates, and trans male youth are especially at risk, a U.S. study suggests.

www.reuters.com

Study finds chronic health issues more common among transgender people

Researchers say the findings underscore the need to identify transgender patients in administrative health data so experts can better understand their higher rates of disease and clinicians can be attuned to the high potential for mental health issues.

www.thestar.com

Possible. But games don't cause gender dysphoria

No, but propaganda normalizing and fetishizing having trans little kids will cause a climate in which more kids will be brainwashed into becoming trans, causing traumatic life experiences to those kids down the road.

What does the game indoctrinate them into?

The game uses the trans kids books as something so cool and progressive. It's a game for parents to fetishize having trans kids so they can feel better about themselves, they can feel like such good persons, like heroes.

But as with everything SJW related, they are just being egotistical abusers.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

Are you ok? You seem tilted.

Terrible bait attempt, you should feel shame for that.

 

[recursive]

Terrible bait attempt, you should feel shame for that.

What? Just seemed like you were drunk when you wrote that since it was just ramblings.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Curious that i've heard that this game was surprisingly not pandering as expected, even Vice shilled against it, didn't see the complains, but it seemed like the reviewer didn't like that it wasn't portrayed as a transgender victimization and shit, other on twitter said it glorified the police LOL. Stevivor said it dealt with it better than TLOU 2.

Still, i'd be waiting for the rest and see what's people response.

Yeah there are a lot of things in the game a true wokescold could despise. One of the most positively portrayed characters is a straight male cop who raised Alyson as a step-daughter. Alyson also grew up around cops as a result and is friendly with basically all of them. Tyler (the trans sibling) aspires to be a national park ranger, which is in essence another sort of cop.

There's even a cute Beaver cop mascot:

Also the characters who come off as ignorant regarding Tyler's gender identity are nonetheless portrayed as complicated, and even sympathetic, human beings with their own struggles. Rather than being portrayed as purely evil scumbags worth only contempt.

 

[Phase]

I'm not touching this.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

The game uses the trans kids books as something so cool and progressive. It's a game for parents to fetishize having trans kids so they can feel better about themselves, they can feel like such good persons, like heroes.

...No it doesn't. You clearly haven't played the game and have no idea what happens in it.

 

[Mod of War]

A reminder to keep this thread on topic discussing the arguments, and not circle around the personal quarrel.

 

[Jon Neu]

...No it doesn't. You clearly haven't played the game and have no idea what happens in it.

Then tell me what's the context.

 

[M1chl]

Then tell me what's the context.

It's really not portrayed as being cool. It's more troubling than cool. It's not played in a way, that would make the main character look like a hero or even "good". I though I sums it up in OP.

 

[Jon Neu]

It's really not portrayed as being cool. It's more troubling than cool. It's not played in a way, that would make the main character look like a hero or even "good". I though I sums it up in OP.

So it's a critique of this types of books?

 

[M1chl]

So it's a critique of these types of books?

I guess that the book was not really great example, however it was example how promintent the idetity of the main character is and how does it connect to the story, this book basically is centerpiece for redemption arc. However the game is so bland that basically there is not much of the socialy commentary, other than "people are mean to trans people" and due to that that Tyler character kind of act like a condescending asshole to other (especially old people) so no they don't make him cool. However since you are into this environment it kind of gives you the impression, that you are the bad person to not be 100% with him on the train which he rides. Maybe that's just me, however that's how I feel.

 

[Barnabot]

Do you think Wokeness/political correctness (same thing) as a whole has negatively affected entertainment?

It affected the fun part. definitely the fun part. Today you kinda need to think twice before daring to say something is funny.

Unless you are in anonymity.
Or among good relatives/true friends.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Then tell me what's the context.

Sure, but first lets be clear. It's really funny that you were speaking on the contents of this game despite having no clue what they actually were. Why did you feel the need to do that?

In any case, the book isn't there to show "wow its so awesome and progressive to be a trans parent." The Twins (Tyler & Alyson) spent their lives believing that their mother, who was mentally unstable, was pushed to the edge upon finding out Tyler was transgender. They think this caused their mother to attempt murdering Tyler and subsequently forced ***even harder spoilers*** Alyson to murder her in self defense. The book is discovered in her room posthumously and is the first indication that they may have been wrong about their mother. That she wasn't actually transphobic, accepted Tyler, and something else was going on that night.

That's it. That's what the book is for. It's so far from "wow so awesome being a trans parent" it isn't funny. If anything being a trans parent is incredibly tragic in the game lol.

 

[Golgo 13]

It affected the fun part. definitely the fun part. Today you kinda need to think twice before daring to say something is funny.

Unless you are in anonymity.
Or among good relatives/true friends.

I think the answer to my question is overwhelmingly “YES”, it’s affected every part of our culture negatively, entertainment as well. I just wanted to hear if other people had the balls to say it.

 

[Barnabot]

I think the answer to my question is overwhelmingly “YES”, it’s affected every part of our culture negatively, entertainment as well. I just wanted to hear if other people had the balls to say it.

then FUCK YEAH

 

[A Rifter in Space]

It's entertaining to watch broteam laugh at these pathetic pozzed agitprop titles so at least something good comes out of it.

 

[Jon Neu]

I guess that the book was not really great example, however it was example how promintent the idetity of the main character is and how does it connect to the story, this book basically is centerpiece for redemption arc. However the game is so bland that basically there is not much of the socialy commentary, other than "people are mean to trans people" and due to that that Tyler character kind of act like a condescending asshole to other (especially old people) so no they don't make him cool. However since you are into this environment it kind of gives you the impression, that you are the bad person to not be 100% with him on the train which he rides. Maybe that's just me, however that's how I feel.

I didn't say that book is there in the game to portray that Tyler character as good, I said those types of books are made in real life so real people can stroke their ego and fetishize little trans kids.

But funny enough the book is there to represent a certain other character as good, because the book itself holds intrinsecal value as something good.

Sure, but first lets be clear. It's really funny that you were speaking on the contents of this game despite having no clue what they actually were. Why did you feel the need to do that?

In any case, the book isn't there to show "wow its so awesome and progressive to be a trans parent." The Twins (Tyler & Alyson) spent their lives believing that their mother, who was mentally unstable, was pushed to the edge upon finding out Tyler was transgender. They think this caused their mother to attempt murdering Tyler and subsequently forced ***even harder spoilers*** Alyson to murder her in self defense. The book is discovered in her room posthumously and is the first indication that they may have been wrong about their mother. That she wasn't actually transphobic, accepted Tyler, and something else was going on that night.

Thank you for the context.

So the book is even more important than I thought and it's basically one of the greatest emotional twists in the game. Doesn't seem to be presented as something bad at all, quite the contrary.

It's so far from "wow so awesome being a trans parent" it isn't funny. If anything being a trans parent is incredibly tragic in the game lol.

Of course is tragic. Trans parents love the tragic part that makes them both victims and heroes, it's a basic part of the fetishization of having a trans kid. Resisting the oppression by association.

Everything about trans people has to be so tragic, otherwise it isn't as fun.

 

[JLMC469]

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Thank you for the context.

So the book is even more important than I thought and it's basically one of the greatest emotional twists in the game. Doesn't seem to be presented as something bad at all, quite the contrary.

No one said it was something bad. The book itself is barely "presented" as anything at all. It's the revelation associated with it that matters. But the fact of the matter is that it's not used to portray the "wow being a trans parent is so awesome!" message you claimed it did.

Of course is tragic. Trans parents love the tragic part that makes them both victims and heroes, it's a basic part of the fetishization of having a trans kid. Resisting the oppression by association.

Everything about trans people has to be so tragic, otherwise it isn't as fun.

You're working backwards from a preconceived notion that this game is some form of propaganda. When in reality it's just a personal drama/mystery story with a trans character that encounters both negative and positive scenarios. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion with no basis because you haven't played the game.

You were bizarrely super comfortable just assuming whatever you had to, to fit a narrative. It's clear you made your mind up before considering anything actually in the game.