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Teamgroup announces worlds fastest SSD over PCIE 5.0 with read speeds at 13,000MB/S and write speeds at 12,000MB/S

Dream-Knife

Member
Every current gen game.

All models of PS5 and Xbox Series X/S ship with a factory installed SSD.
Therefore, developers making PS5/XBX games can assume that 100% of users have an SSD.

Whereas PC games must still be able to run on antiquated mechanical HDDs.
I asked if any games actually take advantage of it.

Those same games are made for PC. They'll put an SSD in minimum specs if it's needed.
 
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Edder1

Member
Anyone who knew anything about tech would have known that PCs will get far superior SSDs before consoles would even begin to take advantage of the likes of PS5 SSD and yet some folks just couldn't help themselves from showboating their tiny willies.
 
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Dream-Knife

Member
Not immediately but in the future developers can use it for the games.
The same is true of PC though.

Developers aren't going to limit their game to one platform.
Anyone who knew anything about tech would have known that PC will get far superior SSDs before consoles would even begin to take advantage of the likes of PS5 SSD and yet some folks just couldn't resist from showboating their tiny willies for at least 6 months.
I bought a better SSD 2 months after the new consoles launched...
 

theclaw135

Member
I asked if any games actually take advantage of it.

Those same games are made for PC. They'll put an SSD in minimum specs if it's needed.

Yes, all of them. Every native PS5/XBX game has faster load times, compared apples to apples with the same game on PC.
 
Even with DirectStorage multiple latency problems remains. However, it will be an improvement, To really unleash the speed of a good SSD, the PC plattform needs to relinquish CPU control over I/O traffic both on the motherboard as well as across the PCIe bus. And that won't happen due to the security issues that would result in.

No, no, no. You don't need to do that, where did you get this idea from? PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 already enable byte-addressability schemes for NAND storage devices, thanks to things like SAM/BAR, etc.

The "security" thing you seem to be referring to is the lack of direct-memory access (DMA) in lieu of the current paging system used for unified address translation. However, that's exactly what things like DirectStorage are reforming, and you don't need to have the CPU relinquish any control if the CPU has the spare resources to handle those functions on CPU cores and threads.

From a gaming point of view, it is much more realistic that there will be small SSDs on high-end GPU cards where it can act as a slow VRAM pool without all the normal PC limitations once the SSD prices have gone down.

Are you forgetting about write endurance cycles? Page/block schemes for NAND vs. RAM? You won't have SSDs integrated on high-end GPUs (or any GPUs) because of reasons like that. If you're thinking of the NAND being used as a fast access pool for data to put into GPU VRAM, well GPUs already have that with things like GPUDirectStorage. Heck, Vega had this with HBCC (which is redundant now thanks to byte-addressability of PCIe 4.0 and later, SAM/BAR, and CXL (this is something only in enterprise spaces right now)).

Personally I think NAND's usage in future systems will be as ROM-like memory with enforced cache coherency on future interconnects like CXL 2.0/3.0 (maybe some of those features getting integrated in PCIe 5.0 revisions or 6.0), with smart caching schemes taking into account predictive use of processed data to ease on future processing of cumulative data results (freeing up bandwidth, memory accesses (aka energy usage), etc.).

Also, possibly locating memory close to processing components, which for GPUs could involve M.2 slot interfaces with FMC ASICs built on them, for removable drives connected to the GPU directly. But soldered NAND modules? No way.

PC has had PCI-E 4.0 for how many years now? Tell me one game that loads in 1 or 2 seconds. When PC's take advantage of PCI-E 5.0, new consoles will be out by then.

Gotta keep in mind these new standards aren't being driven by the mass consumer side of the tech market; they're being driven by enterprise, medical, military, scientific research etc. fields.

These environments use tons of hardware clusters than need faster and better interconnects between clusters, various shared memory pools, etc. Open-standard interfaces like CXL can be layered on top of PCIe 4.0 and 5.0, and there are other standards like RapidIO that offer competitive features to those. Yet others like OMI (based on OpenCAPI) bring unified memory addressing schemes and low latency to various storage, RAM, and processor clusters (you can have a central chiplet-based processor for example with decoupled memory controllers and buffer chips providing OMI links to HBM2E memory stacks with OMI logical layer integration, other links for CXL connections layered on top of PCIe, others for fabric interconnects, etc.).

This stuff is WAYYY bigger than just the console gaming or PC gaming markets. In fact, every single feature the new consoles have in terms of various GPU abilities and even the storage I/O, have been in various enterprise and big-tech aerospace/military/medical etc. mass-computing environments for years if not over a decade & longer. Gaming consoles and PC GPUs are just getting the trickle-down benefits.
 
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Snake29

Member
I'd like to see a source on that.

Been sleeping under a rock for the last year or something?

Anyone who knew anything about tech would have known that PCs will get far superior SSDs before consoles would even begin to take advantage of the likes of PS5 SSD and yet some folks just couldn't help themselves from showboating their tiny willies.

Faster "speeds", but other then that...NVMe on pc do not benefit any game. Even pcie3.0 NVMe's are not getting used at all for games on pc. It's the consoles that will push this tech for developers not game developers on pc.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
TEAMGROUP T-FORCE Debuts the Latest PCIe Gen5 SSD: Leaping Into a New Era of SSDs with Groundbreaking Technologies
TEAMGROUP is releasing its first PCIe Gen5 SSD under its gaming sub-brand T-FORCE as part of the CARDEA series. It is capable of maximum sequential read speeds of over 13,000MB/s and write speeds exceeding 12,000MB/s, and together with a maximum storage capacity of 4TB, it will be the highest performance PCIe Gen5 flagship SSD on the market when launched



Hot damn! I dont think the current gen consoles can benefit from these speeds. It is all for PC baby!
PC game software isn't benefiting from it either baby!
 

Snake29

Member
I haven't seen any side by sides of a game on a console vs 7gb/s M.2.

Those same 7Gb/s m.2. can be added in your PS5 and will use the same decompression hardware. There are comparisons from games being installed on the internal SSD and added SSD. There is not much difference since the games atm do not use any of the current bandwidth.

They have a lot of headroom for future (PS5 only) games/engines.
 
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theclaw135

Member
I'll apologize for the hyperbole.

Nevertheless. It's obvious that you can install an SSD in your PC faster in synthetic benchmarks.
But, architecturally, the two consoles are more efficient at playing video games.
 

Snake29

Member
I've got some bad news for you man.

What was the m.2 speed though?

Do you even understand anything about NVMe tech, m.2., pcie4.0?

Go educate yourself first......it's not only about loading a level faster....

Love And Hip Hop Reaction GIF by VH1
 
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Dream-Knife

Member
Do you even understand anything about NVMe tech, m.2., pcie4.0?

Go educate yourself first......it's not only about loading a level faster....

Love And Hip Hop Reaction GIF by VH1
It's also about asset streaming. The idea if you can fill up vram so that it only has a few seconds of buffer and dynamically stream things in from the SSD, so that vram can hold higher quality assets. We're still a good ways off from that.
My comment was in regards to games being made specifically for the PS5s SSD.
 

theclaw135

Member
I've got some bad news for you man.

The only bad news here, is that PC users are justified in caring little about technical advancements nowadays.
For the PC gamer, superior backwards compatibility, steeply discounted games, modding freedom, and benchmarks, offer more enjoyment than any console ever could.

While people looking to play the latest games, with the least interruption from loading, play on consoles.
 

Snake29

Member
It's also about asset streaming. The idea if you can fill up vram so that it only has a few seconds of buffer and dynamically stream things in from the SSD, so that vram can hold higher quality assets. We're still a good ways off from that.
My comment was in regards to games being made specifically for the PS5s SSD.

So what is the bad news?

The only bad news here is that people spent a lot of money to have NVMe in their pc, starting crystaldiskmark to run a synthetic benchmark, only to find out afterwards that they don't have a clue about those speeds for normal use or gaming in general. Just for the record, I have a PC with 2 pcie4.0 NVMe SSD on my motherboard.

But OP acts like any of this does anything for their pc of games. Most of the time, consoles push new gaming tech, graphics tech, or even some hardware tech that will be used later in the pc customer market.
 
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Dream-Knife

Member
So what is the bad news?
No one will be making games exclusively for the PS5s SSD.
The only bad news here, is that PC users are justified in caring little about technical advancements nowadays.
For the PC gamer, superior backwards compatibility, steeply discounted games, modding freedom, and benchmarks, offer more enjoyment than any console ever could.

While people looking to play the latest games, with the least interruption from loading, play on consoles.
I agree. Consoles are easier for the average consumer.
 
Because directstorage and pcie5 are new tech and havent been implemented in games yet. At some point in near future PC gaming will have faster loadtimes than PS5.
Already a reality on console, who knows when PCs will see this with any regularity. And once you’re down to load times of a couple seconds, nobody gives a shit about higher theoretical speeds.
 
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PropellerEar

Gold Member
You're definitely not the only one who knows about computer hardware. I'm just able to look at this more objectively and with better nuance, at least on this topic, apparently.
The Office Lol GIF by NETFLIX

Imagine writing this kind of self grandising BS.
Then in same post write some thing this ignorant.
custom-designed hardware doesn't have an outright advantage over general-purpose hardware for all purposes.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Because directstorage and pcie5 are new tech and havent been implemented in games yet. At some point in near future PC gaming will have faster loadtimes than PS5.

uhm, it already has faster loading in most games if you have a decent SSD and CPU
 
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HTK

Member
TEAMGROUP T-FORCE Debuts the Latest PCIe Gen5 SSD: Leaping Into a New Era of SSDs with Groundbreaking Technologies
TEAMGROUP is releasing its first PCIe Gen5 SSD under its gaming sub-brand T-FORCE as part of the CARDEA series. It is capable of maximum sequential read speeds of over 13,000MB/s and write speeds exceeding 12,000MB/s, and together with a maximum storage capacity of 4TB, it will be the highest performance PCIe Gen5 flagship SSD on the market when launched



Hot damn! I dont think the current gen consoles can benefit from these speeds. It is all for PC baby!
Is there a single PC exclusive game that utilizes the SSD in a way Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart does?

Outside of the default loading speed improvements...
 

theclaw135

Member
Is there a single PC exclusive game that utilizes the SSD in a way Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart does?

Outside of the default loading speed improvements...

The community is too toxic for that anytime soon.
A PC game would get review bombed to oblivion for declaring "This game requires an SSD with X minimum bandwidth, and cannot be installed to or run from an HDD"
 

Dream-Knife

Member
But I talked of the pc :unsure:
My bad, I thought you were talking about consoles.
Okay then let's test that theory.

Modify your PS5 to replace the SSD with an HDD, and we'll find out how well the games work.
I don't have a ps5. I do know my PC with games stored in a 5400rpm hdd load faster than my PS4 pro though. Guess that's due to bandwidth?
May I borrow your crystal ball?

But based on this thread, You do buy a pcie5.0 based NVMe drive for your PC to run synthetic benchmarks all day?
I have a pcie gen 4 set up. My m.2 gets 6.8gb read and 4.7 gb write according to benchmarks. MH Rise loads in 1 second or less.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
People need to relax because devs will keep making games that can run on Xbox Series S and common PC HW for multiplats. Star Citizen dream is an Icarus dream at this point, no one would take full advantage of high-end PC's.

Also who's dumb enough to think that PS5's SSD would be faster than next PCIe 5.0? In any case this tech advancement should always be celebrated by any sane tech enthusiast.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Is there a single PC exclusive game that utilizes the SSD in a way Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart does?

Outside of the default loading speed improvements...

the claim that Ratchet uses the SSD in any way that would not work on a decent enough HDD is nonsense.

the worst you'd get is slightly longer transition times during warps.
nothing about that game could not work on an HDD.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Both of those use PCIe 3.0 SSDs.
It's a error according to the description of the video.


PC Specs: CPU: AMD Ryzen 5950X Motherboard: Asus Tuf Gaming X570-Pro (Wifi) Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX Black 16GB DDR4 SSD: Samsung SSD 980 EVO NVMe M.2 (500GB) Graphics card: MSI RTX 3080 Ventus Operating System: Windows 10 Monitor: LG 4K

EDIT: nvm thought it was a 980 Pro.
 
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Snake29

Member
the claim that Ratchet uses the SSD in any way that would not work on a decent enough HDD is nonsense.

the worst you'd get is slightly longer transition times during warps.
nothing about that game could not work on an HDD.

Slightly? a lot longer with a lot of pop-in....and i mean a lot!

So the difference will be night and day.
 
At 13,000 Read/Write, you really can run a Virtual Compiler and essentially double your GPU compute through simulated compute!! But this only begins at these write speeds!! Was taught this Over two Decades ago in Computer Science, that at 13,000 Read And Write you can suddenly and instantly Virtualize a Very Nice GPU/CPU through Software Compiler and the SSD is fast enough to rival your DDR4/5 which is fast enough to make it actually work!! Of course these aren't the SSD Write Speeds current Consoles use, these are Bleeding Edge spec SSDs with virtualized compute software running at all times in the background! So basically people are going to buy these types of SSDS, and use up all the space to run virtual compute that matches actual hardware speeds but quadruples your total compute... and buy another just for space!!

And it isn't because installing an SSD like this will just instanlty increase your total compute, it's because this SSD at these speeds can in real time render a large software cluster that simulates CPU/GPU's while being fast enough to transfer that data on the Fly just as a CPU!!
 
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Hoddi

Member
the claim that Ratchet uses the SSD in any way that would not work on a decent enough HDD is nonsense.

the worst you'd get is slightly longer transition times during warps.
nothing about that game could not work on an HDD.
It's pretty easy to test these things now that PS5 supports NVMe drives. You simply read the drive's SMART data.

Here's my drive before and after playing through the first mission in R&C. This took me about 30 minutes and read ~165GB from disk.



 
The Office Lol GIF by NETFLIX

Imagine writing this kind of self grandising BS.
Then in same post write some thing this ignorant.

The 2nd quote is fundamentally correct; customized hardware still has to compromise on certain areas in order to deliver their performance targets. Specific ASIC designs are very good at particular tasks but many attempts for them to operate outside of the parameters set in hardware are very difficult to do, they lack the flexibility of general-purpose silicon.

It's like how DSPs are very good at MAC operations, but are poor at generalized code which CPUs are more suited for. You can have the most advanced customized DSP ASIC in the world; have it try crunching general non-MAC code for a current AAA game and it will fail.

For specific tasks, you can go with either custom ASICs or very powerful generalized hardware leveraging more software-driven implementations. They each have their advantages; if the latter isn't clearly more capable in raw throughput than the former, the former usually outperforms it. But they both also have their disadvantages; if the the latter has clearly more raw throughput than the former, it can not only potentially run the same task at roughly the same level, but run it better thanks to flexibility allowing for improved software-driven algorithms to execute.

I don't see how any of that is "ignorant" 🤷‍♂️

At 13,000 Read/Write, you really can run a Virtual Compiler and essentially double your GPU compute through simulated compute!! But this only begins at these write speeds!! Was taught this Over two Decades ago in Computer Science, that at 13,000 Read And Write you can suddenly and instantly Virtualize a Very Nice GPU/CPU through Software Compiler and the SSD is fast enough to rival your DDR4/5 which is fast enough to make it actually work!! Of course these aren't the SSD Write Speeds current Consoles use, these are Bleeding Edge spec SSDs with virtualized compute software running at all times in the background! So basically people are going to buy these types of SSDS, and use up all the space to run virtual compute that matches actual hardware speeds but quadruples your total compute... and buy another just for space!!

And it isn't because installing an SSD like this will just instanlty increase your total compute, it's because this SSD at these speeds can in real time render a large software cluster that simulates CPU/GPU's while being fast enough to transfer that data on the Fly just as a CPU!!

This is interesting; any idea on how long a SSD being used for this type of purpose would last? How frequent are write operations on a drive performing this type of function?

Also any other sources with details on this for further reading? I'd be really interested in it, because I'm pretty interested in what technologies 10th-gen systems could potentially use, and this sounds like it'd be pretty useful for those especially combined with PIM/PNM (Processing-In-Memory/Processing-Near-Memory) designs (which I also think 10th-gen systems will leverage in some notable way).
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
TEAMGROUP T-FORCE Debuts the Latest PCIe Gen5 SSD: Leaping Into a New Era of SSDs with Groundbreaking Technologies
TEAMGROUP is releasing its first PCIe Gen5 SSD under its gaming sub-brand T-FORCE as part of the CARDEA series. It is capable of maximum sequential read speeds of over 13,000MB/s and write speeds exceeding 12,000MB/s, and together with a maximum storage capacity of 4TB, it will be the highest performance PCIe Gen5 flagship SSD on the market when launched



Hot damn! I dont think the current gen consoles can benefit from these speeds. It is all for PC baby!
 

Tripolygon

Member
It's pretty easy to test these things now that PS5 supports NVMe drives. You simply read the drive's SMART data.

Here's my drive before and after playing through the first mission in R&C. This took me about 30 minutes and read ~165GB from disk.
That's pretty clever mate. That is a lot of reads in 30 minutes of gameplay. A game designed to rely on lots of reading from an SSD like that will not play very smoothly on a HDD.
 

Pedro Motta

Gold Member
Gotta keep in mind these new standards aren't being driven by the mass consumer side of the tech market; they're being driven by enterprise, medical, military, scientific research etc. fields.

These environments use tons of hardware clusters than need faster and better interconnects between clusters, various shared memory pools, etc. Open-standard interfaces like CXL can be layered on top of PCIe 4.0 and 5.0, and there are other standards like RapidIO that offer competitive features to those. Yet others like OMI (based on OpenCAPI) bring unified memory addressing schemes and low latency to various storage, RAM, and processor clusters (you can have a central chiplet-based processor for example with decoupled memory controllers and buffer chips providing OMI links to HBM2E memory stacks with OMI logical layer integration, other links for CXL connections layered on top of PCIe, others for fabric interconnects, etc.).

This stuff is WAYYY bigger than just the console gaming or PC gaming markets. In fact, every single feature the new consoles have in terms of various GPU abilities and even the storage I/O, have been in various enterprise and big-tech aerospace/military/medical etc. mass-computing environments for years if not over a decade & longer. Gaming consoles and PC GPUs are just getting the trickle-down benefits.
Sure, but we are in a gaming forum discussing games.

I use high throughput SSD's everyday for work and this upgrade is more than welcome. There is no too much speed for what I need.

I was just responding to the ridiculous claim that the SSD on consoles is dead.
 

Hoddi

Member
That's pretty clever mate. That is a lot of reads in 30 minutes of gameplay. A game designed to rely on lots of reading from an SSD like that will not play very smoothly on a HDD.
Ya, I wouldn't want to play it off an HDD. It's still a bit less than I thought as it's 'only' twice more than Doom Eternal does in a similar amount of time.

The most IO intensive thing I've tried yet was actually the Matrix demo (edit: the open world part) which read ~100GB over the span of 10 minutes. That's also a pure streaming test while my R&C test above includes cutscenes etc.
 
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Sure, but we are in a gaming forum discussing games.

I use high throughput SSD's everyday for work and this upgrade is more than welcome. There is no too much speed for what I need.

I was just responding to the ridiculous claim that the SSD on consoles is dead.

Who said that? I hope no one was saying that xD; the full throughput of the I/O in all next-gen systems hasn't even been used yet.

Also yes, SSDs are a godsend compared to platter-based HDDs. No risk of drive head crashes leading to data corruption, for starters.

Okay then let's test that theory.

Modify your PS5 to replace the SSD with an HDD, and we'll find out how well the games work.

I don't think that person was saying there'd be no difference between PS5's internal SSD and a HDD, or are some folks using HDD interchangeably for any "slow" modern storage drive?

When I think of a HDD I think of platter-based drives that basically operate like optical media (in concept, not literally, with seek times and such. HDDs don't actually use optical media).
 

Tripolygon

Member
Ya, I wouldn't want to play it off an HDD. It's still a bit less than I thought as it's 'only' twice more than Doom Eternal does in a similar amount of time.

The most IO intensive thing I've tried yet was actually the Matrix demo which read ~100GB over the span of 10 minutes. That's also a pure streaming test while my R&C test above includes cutscenes etc.
Yup sounds about right, It's not surprising at all the Matrix Demo is one of the highest you've done, the engine is very tailored to streaming, not just textures but lots of virtualized geometry as well. Engaging nanite view and seeing all the virtualized meshes loading and unloading are pretty interesting. Have you done Demon's Souls? I wonder how much data is read when you go through the portal.
 

Hoddi

Member
Yup sounds about right, It's not surprising at all the Matrix Demo is one of the highest you've done, the engine is very tailored to streaming, not just textures but lots of virtualized geometry as well. Engaging nanite view and seeing all the virtualized meshes loading and unloading are pretty interesting. Have you done Demon's Souls? I wonder how much data is read when you go through the portal.
Ya, I also tried DS a bit. I wasn't really very thorough but warping into three separate worlds read ~15GB from the drive including the initial boot.

I tested the streaming a bit better where I created a new character and entered Boletaria before switching off the system and checking the drive. I then resumed from there and played until I killed the Phalanx boss in about 30 minutes and ended up with ~100GB in that playtime.
 
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