• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Opinion Hardware Switch was the "Pandora's Box" to Handheld Gaming PCs. How does Nintendo make Switch Pro not seem dated upon release?

MegaZoneEX

Member
May 30, 2013
563
874
810
soundcloud.com
im actually both scared and optimistic when it comes to Switch Pro. Optimistic that Nintendo will definitely give us a better, upgraded Switch, and with impressive games, but scared that it won't be as future-proof to last until 10 gen.


What could we see from Nintendo with the Switch Pro, hardware-wise, so that it maintains its mobile gaming domniance
 

RoadHazard

Member
Dec 9, 2008
20,823
3,790
1,245
Gothenburg, Sweden
It will be outdated at release, and it doesn't matter. They're not gonna try to compete with the PS5 and XSX, they're not even gonna get to base PS4 level, but if it's at least a noticeable improvement over the original it's gonna sell very well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
3,932
4,978
440
It doesnt need to be 10 years future proof. Just 4-5 years tops.
There next console will be a handheld / hybrid because Nintendo consoles don’t do nearly as well as there handhelds apart from Wii
 

6502

Member
Jan 25, 2021
230
301
270
im actually both scared and optimistic when it comes to Switch Pro. Optimistic that Nintendo will definitely give us a better, upgraded Switch, and with impressive games, but scared that it won't be as future-proof to last until 10 gen.


What could we see from Nintendo with the Switch Pro, hardware-wise, so that it maintains its mobile gaming domniance
I have a feeling fans will have the new nintendo switch, the 5 games that take advantage of the extra 3 clock cycles and be in the queue for the next Nintendo console in 2 years time.

Considering their flagship game graphics have barely changed since gamecube, I don't think anyone is worried about their dominance being borked by low specs.
 
Last edited:

Tschumi

Gold Member
Jul 4, 2020
4,886
5,410
770
I think we're falling into a tempting trap of applying the tech-first approach of their competitors to Nintendo again..

It's repetitive sure but Nintendo think first about how they're gonna get all their cell shaded characters like Mario and Zelda to run on the system... That lowers their hardware bar considerably. Still, you say Switch is underpowered but they got Crysis Remastered to run on it and that is, if nothing else, an indication that it's powerful *enough*.

I still love Vita most <3
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mrabott

Zannegan

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,957
1,442
535
It won't be as powerful as handheld gaming PCs, but it also won't be nearly as expensive. It'll pretty much be like any console compared to a gaming pc in the same bracket.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: BlackTron

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
7,285
11,260
610
if they get a 1.2TF gpu in there and have DLSS support, you can do a lot of stuff with that alone that will make games look really good.
(the current Switch docked at stock clocks is 0.393TF, with a potential for 0.649TF if clocked to max spec)

the question is if Nvidia has a chip that can do that

the Tegra X2 which is also 4 years old by now can reach 0.750TF at max clock... so it doesn't need much more to reach 1.2TF
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Mar 8, 2021
1,411
2,826
445
it will be the most powerful handheld console, dont underestimate the power of DLSS!!!!!!!


Animated GIF
 
Last edited:

Ozzie666

Member
Jun 27, 2020
591
562
295
As technology keeps improving, is there any way Sony can make a handheld PS4, or create some easy pipeline to convert PS4 games to the hand held, with minimal work, if any at all. X86 portable seems to becoming more possible.

As for Switch Pro, whatever you expect, cut it by half, then cut it by half again and still be disappointed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToTTenTranz

MagnesG

Member
Apr 20, 2019
3,079
2,454
515
We can't expect much in the first place, even at $400 price, unsubsidized.
 

dvdvideo

Member
Sep 15, 2005
2,778
2,926
1,690
I'm hoping for lots, bit probably won't get much knowing how stingy Nintendo can be.
But I think dlss will 100% save the day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Metnut

Warnen

Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead / Hey, there, there goes the Spider-Man
Sep 24, 2005
6,082
6,509
1,885
Sea lab
Software, Nintendo stuff is always under powered but there games look and feel great. If Destiny 2 got a port I’d prob go switch only.
 

Hoddi

Member
Nov 3, 2020
223
302
285
I don't really think they need to. If the rumors are true that it's mainly about getting good 4k output via DLSS then their games are already going to look fantastic on 4k TVs.

I mean, we all agree that the Wii U was underpowered. But I'm pretty big into emulation and once you see those games running at 4k then you'll probably agree that they look amazing.
 

LazyParrot

Member
Mar 19, 2019
1,822
3,774
445
Does it really have to be future proof? It's not like games for the regular model ever looked all that great or ran all that well. In terms of the technology, the thing was outdated the second it launched. Nobody is buying Nintendo consoles for graphics or performance, they buy them to play Nintendo games, and those are gonna be on Switch no matter what.
 

Foorbits

Member
Nov 14, 2008
22,192
5,612
1,495
It’ll outsell the LTD of the combined sales of all handheld gaming PCs the first day it goes on sale. Not sure they need to worry about anything.
 
Last edited:

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,029
24,373
770
I dont think it matters for Nintendo fanbase. You dont buy a Nintendo device anymoe if you want high tech, or high end graphics.
 
Last edited:

lestar

Member
Feb 24, 2014
289
123
500
DLSS, a custom mobile nvidia ampere chipset and a supplementary hardware in the dock
 

bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
Apr 12, 2010
11,674
20,191
1,480
What could we see from Nintendo with the Switch Pro, hardware-wise, so that it maintains its mobile gaming domniance

Outside of mobile phones and tablets, what hardware alternative is nearest to the Switch in sales?
 

Ezquimacore

Member
Jan 8, 2021
822
2,256
430
You are not going to find another portable like the switch pro for $350-$400. Even the ones trying with those AMD apus are too expensive and the performance is not worth it. you can also buy a phone or a tablet with "better" specs that you're not going to enjoy, for what? angry birds or minecraft android edition? Nintendo is in an unique position right now and even if the Switch pro doesn't have the best specs ever, will have the best specs for the price/value/content. Shit, I prefer a Switch Lite than a $1000 samsung even if the phone was $200.
 

yurinka

Member
Jan 19, 2007
13,605
5,441
1,745
Barcelona, Spain
www.capcom-town.es
Thanks to a friend I got an Atari VCS.

It supports 4K, Netflix, Amazon Video, Disney Plus, Discord, Plex, Chrome or Twitch, a game streaming platform and allows me to connect a USB HDD with another OS so I can put Linux with emulators. It would be nice to see Switch feature this.

And to fix the joycons (both the drift, the tiny button size plus shitty analogs quality).
 
Last edited:

6502

Member
Jan 25, 2021
230
301
270
Can someone tell me if dlss requires an internet connection or is it a matter of the devs training the ai and then all data needed is stored on the cart? Would there be updates required?
 

Kilau

Member
Dec 12, 2013
3,540
3,835
710
Can someone tell me if dlss requires an internet connection or is it a matter of the devs training the ai and then all data needed is stored on the cart? Would there be updates required?
DLSS won’t require an internet connection beyond updates to the system. On PC it’s supported on a per game basis atm. On a console one would assume it would be a system level feature that devs would program for when making the game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6502

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
1,007
1,283
425
As technology keeps improving, is there any way Sony can make a handheld PS4, or create some easy pipeline to convert PS4 games to the hand held, with minimal work, if any at all. X86 portable seems to becoming more possible.

As for Switch Pro, whatever you expect, cut it by half, then cut it by half again and still be disappointed.

The weakness of x86 is always going to be power consumption. There are a couple of reasons for this - one is that it's fundamentally a processor with a register/memory architecture and hence it hits the memory pretty hard and needs both short access times and low latency. In practice (especially with the large working set of modern software) this means you need a very fancy cache system, and that takes significant power. On top of this, if you look at the internal architecture of modern x86 chips they basically consist of an instruction decode section that decomposes the x86 instructions into simpler operations and feeds them to a set of execution units that look very similar to the ones in a RISC CPU simply because to retire instructions at the rate needed you have to keep things simple. The problem is that to make all this work you need long pipelines and very complex logic for keeping track of what's currently in progress, especially when you get into things like speculative execution, since if you end up needing to revoke an instruction you have to unwind all of it's effects, which hence need to be kept track of. All this also adds to the power consumption.

The reason that mobile devices have overwhelmingly chosen ARM is the flip side of this - ARM is a load/store architecture where memory is only accessed when the programmer (or compiler) explicitly requests it. It has a large register file and an highly orthogonal instruction set, so you almost never have to move stuff around to get it where you need it to work on it. The downside is that the instructions have lower semantic content and hence on average you need to process more of them in order to carry out a given function - this obviously increases the load on the memory, but in practice this is more than offset by the reduction in memory accesses that aren't really needed but just imposed by the architecture. Another consideration is that you no longer need to decompose instructions on the chip in real time - the corresponding operations are carried out once by the compiler where they don't impact the power consumption at runtime - and the compiler can usually do a better job anyway since it doesn't have to run in real-time and can analyze the code to a much deeper level than a runtime translator can. The pipelines are shorter and hence the penalties for mispredicted branches are smaller and because most of the instructions operate purely on registers you can handle speculative execution using register renaming and scoreboarding, which is much easier to unwind.

Basically, trying to make a low-power consumption system using an x86 is a bit like repeatedly punching yourself in the balls and then wondering why it's hurting.

Note that I'm certainly not trying to suggest that x86 is a terrible architecture (well, not since the i386 anyway...) just that it's not a good choice for low power systems - especially with a closed system like a console that doesn't require binary compatibility.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Mar 6, 2013
22,841
2,704
795
Switch didn't suddendly get outdated in 4 years(i mean 'outdated' as it even stopped selling) so Switch Pro will be fine. stop worrying, for better or for worse Nintendo Switch is the best place to play console quality gaming on the go. No smartphone or tablet comes close to it.

When next gen Switch 2 gets announced everybody will be shitting their pants for that hybrid Nintendo goodness

And to answer your question Nintendo already teamed up with Nvidia, they have a good partner to help them up with tools and tech in the future 👍 im not concerned at all
 
Last edited:

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
4,230
3,814
405
Think the OP was referring to handheld gaming pc, the problem I see is that the OEM that are going to make handheld pc are going to suck at
- battery life
- ux

Nintendo isn't the best at the latter but they are functional
 
Apr 5, 2013
1,145
1,017
785
Have you seen the prices on handheld gaming PCs? A GPD Win3 is $1000+. The $200 Lite simply has no competition at that price point and I doubt it ever will for this gen.
 

kinjx11

Banned
Jun 25, 2018
273
537
355
They better beat Apple rumored hybrid console which should be targeting Switch market of handheld gaming
 

Diddy X

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,463
1,711
440
Pc gaming is non existant for most people, now imagine "pc handeld gaming".
 

Dr Bass

Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,989
5,908
955
Some people still don’t get it.

Most people don’t buy something because of the gpu or cpu or how “up to date” the hardware is.

It’s actually “Hey we can play the new mario kart on this!”

Or Pokémon. Or Zelda.

The idea that people buy for specs is so, so wrong.
 
Last edited:

NeilH1982

Banned
Jul 9, 2019
1,211
3,113
610
Ease of use and the fact that you can get 2 or 3 switches for the price of a decent handheld pc
 

Coolwhhip

Member
Aug 26, 2019
3,848
11,791
665
Some people still don’t get it.

Most people don’t buy something because of the gpu or cpu or how “up to date” the hardware is.

It’s actually “Hey we can play the new mario kart on this!”

Or Pokémon. Or Zelda.

The idea that people buy for specs is so, so wrong.

That depends if this is a Switch Pro or a small Switch upgrade that will replace the current one.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,564
9,125
745
It all boils down to battery technology. With a substantial battery increase, with a decrease in size and weight, Nintendo could do so much more (within reasonable pricing of course). If they can get the same or better battery life with a much better spec'd APU, I don't see why they wouldn't. But it would need to be very power efficient as well as having good thermals, otherwise you'll only get like 3 or so hours of life out of it.
 

Rudius

Member
Feb 19, 2020
1,029
2,381
360
There is not much Nintendo can do regarding power, specially since you can already have a Switch Pro right now if you want. Even a budget gaming laptop with a 1650 can play Breath of the Wild at 1080p60. They should focus on making a slick device, with a good battery, that is not very expensive.

 
  • Like
Reactions: daveonezero

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
6,704
4,636
810
France
im actually both scared and optimistic when it comes to Switch Pro. Optimistic that Nintendo will definitely give us a better, upgraded Switch, and with impressive games, but scared that it won't be as future-proof to last until 10 gen.


What could we see from Nintendo with the Switch Pro, hardware-wise, so that it maintains its mobile gaming domniance
*read OP title and argument*
*compare handled pc sales to switch ones*
 
Last edited:

Marvel14

Gold Member
Sep 30, 2020
307
426
400
P
It doesnt need to be 10 years future proof. Just 4-5 years tops.
There next console will be a handheld / hybrid because Nintendo consoles don’t do nearly as well as there handhelds apart from Wii
And the NES and SNES...the issue is more differentiation and technical innovation. Nintendo stopped targeting cutting edge console hardware after the gamecube and have been focusing on differentiation. Hybridness is a differentiation that has worked...but for how long?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kokoloko85

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
3,932
4,978
440
P
And the NES and SNES...the issue is more differentiation and technical innovation. Nintendo stopped targeting cutting edge console hardware after the gamecube and have been focusing on differentiation. Hybridness is a differentiation that has worked...but for how long?

True Nes and Snes done well. After that not soo good on consoles apart from Wii.
Ive owned every major Nintendo console and handheld loved them all except the Wii lol.

I think going forward its gonna be handheld/console hyrbid, improving it.
And then adding differentiation like you said, which they done with Wii ( motion ) Wii U ( tablet )
Probably stuff like VR, AR, things out the box. Like the AR remote control Mario Kart. The Lab thing, more motion.

And probably brain control gaming VR haha
 

Ribi

Member
Oct 24, 2017
801
890
385
Some people still don’t get it.

Most people don’t buy something because of the gpu or cpu or how “up to date” the hardware is.

It’s actually “Hey we can play the new mario kart on this!”

Or Pokémon. Or Zelda.

The idea that people buy for specs is so, so wrong.
This, Nintendo fans are like apple fans they just buy what's given to the them to keeping doing what they've always been enjoying, playing Nintendo games. Then they don't touch it for a while because that's all they can play.

Pandora's box was the vita, psnow streaming there. Nintendo saves costs by cutting corners and they know thier backwards ass approach to tech won't matter, thier fans will buy it anyway