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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
That explains a hell of a lot. I had my suspicions because it really doesn’t feel like a Mario game in the slightest.
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Super Mario 3D All-Stars |OT| So Long So Long Gay Bowser
- Thread starter Lionel Richie
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That explains a hell of a lot. I had my suspicions because it really doesn’t feel like a Mario game in the slightest.
-Arcadia-
Banned
I think it definitely does in the platforming, the world traversal, and exploration (expanded SM64), but at the same time, I can agree with that too. It is very out of step.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Fludd really kills it for me, as a game, the aiming is horrible. The jetpack side of it is fine though frankly you could get a similar effect from fancy jumping. The world itself though has nothing to do with Mario, it's just a random generic world with very little from the world of Mario other than Peach and the Toads.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Yeah, Nintendo didn't know how to do analog aiming back then. See simple shots in Ocarina and Majora being a quasi-nightmare too, and they had this philosophy of no aiming reticules. Which would be cool if their aiming wasn't so loose, lol.
You can overcome it, though. It has a feel that you can get used to.
I disagree on generic. This world has a lot of nice design and charm and style of its own. I however, can agree that it's a step too far removed from Mario, and doesn't have the artistic quality of an Odyssey or a Galaxy.
That's Sunshine though. You have to accept that it's a cut below other Marios, its weirdness and quirks, and embrace it for what it is, to get the most out of it.
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carlosrox
Banned
Mario 64 didn't really either.
It wasn't until Galaxy that Mario started feeling like Mario games again.
That's part of the reason why Galaxy was so amazing, it was the return of more classic tunes, enemies, etc.
64 and Sunshine were both departures for the series. Galaxy I think was a return to form.
Not that they weren't solid games, but they felt like they took place in other worlds with a different cast more than Galaxy did, and that was in fucking space. But it felt like Mushroom Kingdom Space if that makes sense. Same with 3D World even though it was also a different kingdom entirely (supposedly).
Odyssey was a weird blend of Sunshine/64 weirdness with some more traditional Mario stuff here and there.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I feel like Mario 64's world is a lot more generic than Sunshine's. Almost every level in Mario 64 could just be described as "place," and you really wouldn't be missing any of the finer points.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
yeah it's kind of like Super Mario Bros. 2 in that way. the weird sequel that seemingly has no attachment to the first entry. keep with it though. it was weird to not break bricks anymore and instead be pulling up veggies out of the ground.
at any rate keep with it. FLUDD is kind of genius once you realize it's basically Mario With a Jetpack.
Mario 64 feels like classic Mario to me. you got goombas. you got lakitu. you got piranha plants. you got bowser. Wiggler is basically the catterpillar enemies from Super Mario World. warp pipes. super stars. you have a standard moveset and even the power-ups (aside from fllying cap) don't really change it much.
Sunshine is indeed the weird cousin. but it still feels like Mario to me. just with a carnival/beach atmosphere to it. SMB2 had a tropical flavor to it as well imo so it fits. the movest is supplemented by power-ups here. power-ups in this game affect the FLUDD. first experimentation with bite-size bonus levels where the moveset has been reduced to 64 levels. this is where they started thinking about Galaxy design style imo.
Mario Galaxy is pretty unique. but yeah the intro with Peach's castle and the mushroom people is very nostalgic. standard move set but now power-ups give Mario entirely new ways of traversing: change into a ghost, change into a bee, etc. you can see how easy it was to go from here to embracing that at game length with Odyssey.
Odyssey i feel really is a perfect summation of all the games that came before. you have a large hub-style levels like 64. you have the return of FLUDD style power-ups and SMS style hat-less challenge rooms. you have the alternate gameplay styles of Galaxy, as well as it's epic scope.
in fact i'm looking forward to replaying Odyssey once i 100% all these.
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Lionel Richie
Member
But it comes with very little visual repetition, like a level theme doesn't repeat until the second water stage. And by then you've gone grass, fortress, snow, water, a fucking slide, abstract void, haunted house, lava, desert, cave and then water again. Granted, the second half is a bit more samey, but the last two levels are very unique so it's not a Dark Souls situation where the devs just run out of creative gas.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
It never really felt like a true sequel to me.
I mean, it's in the title.
I'd really like a true remaster/remake of the first game.
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carlosrox
Banned
Felt like a level pack to me. Awesome levels, but still a level pack.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
You nailed it.
royox
Member
You can do that star in seconds. When the elevator starts going down you can jump out directly to the star.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
For fuck's sake. Wish I'd known that a bit sooner!
royox
Member
A lot of the stars can be cheesed like that lol
Also for the people having a bad time in the lava world...you can complete the 7 stars in literally less than 30 minutes if you have the flying cap and use the shell to do the "sumo battles" against those fuckers that you have to push out of the platforms.
Lionel Richie
Member
What broken controls?
UsualNoise
Member
Me too! (Well, not the hair thing.) Same with the Eel Dentist level, which I was dreading but ended up being not too bad. Controlling underwater-helmet Mario can be a bit tricky though. I already decided not to find all the blue coins without a guide. I'm glad I decided that because when I looked up the last few in just Bianco Hills I can confidently say I would have NEVER found them. (One reason is that I literally can't find the last two without a certain helper which I haven't gotten yet.)
-Arcadia-
Banned
I just do the blue coins until the fun ends and it seems like Nintendo just shoved them in some random place because they couldn’t be bothered. Lol. Quite a few of the blue coins are really fun. It’s the just the stupid, impossible few that gives them their bad rep.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
been playing a lot of other 90s Nintendo games alongside this, like Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, which has a 3D CGI Yoshi in the intro. i'm also playing Donkey Kong Country 2, and that series was famous for basically being the first (?) 2.5D platformer. there was also Super Mario RPG, which had the Mario characters and environment CGI rendered DKC style. when you look at the SNES years, there was a lot of early experimentation with 3D.
Yoshi's Island featured a lot of 3D techniques like stretching and rotating sprites, iterating on the Mode 7 style techniques Nintendo was also looking into at the time. kind of a stopgap between the full 3D of 64. Yoshi's Island this was late in the SNES console cycle, the release date of 1995 was 5 years after Super Mario World. so it uses a lot of late console tech like the Super FX chip. if you use a pixel art sprite on a single polygon, you can rotate it and stretch and manipulate it in a number of ways. SOTN uses similar tricks.
it's really mind blowing that it was only a year after Yoshi's Island that Super Mario 64 came out.
Yoshi's Island featured a lot of 3D techniques like stretching and rotating sprites, iterating on the Mode 7 style techniques Nintendo was also looking into at the time. kind of a stopgap between the full 3D of 64. Yoshi's Island this was late in the SNES console cycle, the release date of 1995 was 5 years after Super Mario World. so it uses a lot of late console tech like the Super FX chip. if you use a pixel art sprite on a single polygon, you can rotate it and stretch and manipulate it in a number of ways. SOTN uses similar tricks.
it's really mind blowing that it was only a year after Yoshi's Island that Super Mario 64 came out.
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-Arcadia-
Banned
Done with Sirena Beach. One play session. Off with the band-aid.
It wasn’t as horrendous as I remember it being, wherein I literally compared it to the worst games I had ever played, but I could feel even the patience I went in with being pushed, with just a non-stop stream of bad ideas.
I’d recommend just skipping it, but of course they shoved the mandatory (I think?) Shadow Mario battle right at the end. One last awful decision.
I wonder what makes it so bad? Was this world just forced to ship in a beta state? Were they really unaware of how unfun it was to play? This world is what a Nintendo that lost its way like Sonic Team would look like.
This early GameCube Nintendo that gave us moments like these, is a weird entity. Still capable of amazingness, but more unsteady than I’ve ever seen them.
It wasn’t as horrendous as I remember it being, wherein I literally compared it to the worst games I had ever played, but I could feel even the patience I went in with being pushed, with just a non-stop stream of bad ideas.
I’d recommend just skipping it, but of course they shoved the mandatory (I think?) Shadow Mario battle right at the end. One last awful decision.
I wonder what makes it so bad? Was this world just forced to ship in a beta state? Were they really unaware of how unfun it was to play? This world is what a Nintendo that lost its way like Sonic Team would look like.
This early GameCube Nintendo that gave us moments like these, is a weird entity. Still capable of amazingness, but more unsteady than I’ve ever seen them.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeah, and then we got Metroid fucking Prime.
Weird-ass times. I miss weird Nintendo, though.
Weird-ass times. I miss weird Nintendo, though.
Lionel Richie
Member
Oof. Gelato Beach on the other hand is one of the best levels Nintendo ever did even if what you do in it is pretty stupid. It certainly deserved better than watermelon rolling and sand bird fuckathon. The mirrors and the large coral still look unbelievable.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Blah. I loved the Sand Bird this time. Lol.
It is a really cool level. One of my favorites from the game too. I love the range of it, from high wires in the outdoor auditorium area, to swimming through the coral for red coins (absolutely love this, and it's one of the moments that drives the summer theme home), to the cleverness of the mirror battle, to, even although it's a pain, the watermelon. That was such creative, varied thing to include.
A couple of more favorites are Bianco Hills, just for being an awesome Mario world with tons of scenery and things to do, and Pinna Park. Mario in a theme park is the most awesome idea, and it was genuinely fun to interact with the rides and climb all around them.
This is making me feel better about spending an hour on this hateful level, so thank you, btw, hahaha.
Lionel Richie
Member
There are definitely some bits in Mario Sunshine that are only playable through group therapy sessions lol.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Btw, I found this ancient interview while searching for Sunshine stuff, if you want to read. It’s really interesting.
Also:
Miyamoto: I know you've already played Super Mario Sunshine. Is there any person who has not obtained 30 Shines yet? Oh, I'm afraid there is one. Let's ignore him. [Laughter.]
Nintendo's Super Mario Sunshine Interview
Nintendo's interview with Miyamoto, Koizumi, and Tezuka - the creators of Super Mario Sunshine.
www.gamecubicle.com
Also:
Miyamoto: I know you've already played Super Mario Sunshine. Is there any person who has not obtained 30 Shines yet? Oh, I'm afraid there is one. Let's ignore him. [Laughter.]
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Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
So, I'm watching Nickelodeon and a commercial for Super Mario 64 comes on, and I realized that a lot of kids probably won't even realize that Mario 64 is an old game. They'll probably think the blocky visuals are an intentional art style, rather than because the game is old as hell.
And that's fucking weird.
And that's fucking weird.
Lionel Richie
Member
Is that your Twitter? Are you a russian bot?
-Arcadia-
Banned
I hate Twitter, so I literally just spent a couple of seconds on it, so I could post videos and screens here, lol.
-Arcadia-
Banned
At risk of talking about Sunshine too much (I think I’ll maybe take a break until I bring home 128), the game is such a horseshoe.
It starts out a bit rough due to the awful story, and the needed acclimation to Sunshine being a step down from other Mario titles, spends most of its time as a really enjoyable, great game, then for the end, hits the other end of the horseshoe and goes out a little weak.
Sirena and Pianta were my last levels, and while the latter was much, much better, it was still towards the bottom of the list of good levels in Sunshine. It still had that rushed, unpolished feel.
Thankfully, I actually enjoyed Corona Mountain. Lol. Which is not the opinion I had the first time. That happened so many times throughout this game. I think I’ve gotten a lot better at 3D games during the interim. I even made it through in one try. Big thanks to past me for actually having the foresight to practice on the boat in Noki Bay, and figure out the controls, lol.
It’s a great, weird, flawed game, altogether, and I’m not entirely sure where I stand on it. It’s hard to offer plaudits to something that comes in weak, and goes out weaker. At the same time though, most of the game was a fantastic time for me. I think that’s ultimately the part that I will take away from all of this.
It starts out a bit rough due to the awful story, and the needed acclimation to Sunshine being a step down from other Mario titles, spends most of its time as a really enjoyable, great game, then for the end, hits the other end of the horseshoe and goes out a little weak.
Sirena and Pianta were my last levels, and while the latter was much, much better, it was still towards the bottom of the list of good levels in Sunshine. It still had that rushed, unpolished feel.
Thankfully, I actually enjoyed Corona Mountain. Lol. Which is not the opinion I had the first time. That happened so many times throughout this game. I think I’ve gotten a lot better at 3D games during the interim. I even made it through in one try. Big thanks to past me for actually having the foresight to practice on the boat in Noki Bay, and figure out the controls, lol.
It’s a great, weird, flawed game, altogether, and I’m not entirely sure where I stand on it. It’s hard to offer plaudits to something that comes in weak, and goes out weaker. At the same time though, most of the game was a fantastic time for me. I think that’s ultimately the part that I will take away from all of this.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Just beat Super Mario Galaxy. Maybe for the first time ever tbh. That ending is... it is trippy! And kind of profound! Mario turns into Carl Sagan at the end haha
Now to check out the bonus stars this game has on hand. I love 100%ing Mario games.
Now to check out the bonus stars this game has on hand. I love 100%ing Mario games.
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-Arcadia-
Banned
Literally the only way they could end that game, is the ridiculous (awesome) way they did. It was too epic for anything less.
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Lionel Richie
Member
Don't mind me, I'm ready to welcome our Putin overlord.
Twitter is a pain, I somehow miss it less than I miss Facebook.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Snowman’s Big Head can eat a big bag of hairy diseased cocks.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Playing Sunshine now cos the end game of Galaxy feels a bit too repetitive. It’s really great. Frustrating at times but with a while lot of good ideas too. I’m glad Nintendo experiments like this, they aren’t afraid to fail some, and the highs end up being really cool because of that. I couldn’t see Galaxy or Odyssey without a lot of Sunshine in there.
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IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
#Phonepunk#
Banned
yeah the linear level design of Galaxy doesn't really lend itself to the additional stars imo. endgame for 64 was a lot of fun, exploring things i never looked into, discovering weird secrets. Galaxy's endgame feels really stretched out. kind of a weird setup they ended up with. each level only has like 2 stars until the end of the game, then you go back to find the others, and it's a lot of traversing linear levels trying to remember where you didn't go. whereas the previous games definitely had backtracking, the levels were laid out in a nicer way. feels like now i'm just running the same courses again with a tiny change. plus a lot of stars are just "race cosmic Mario" or "collect a bunch of stars" kind of time wasters compared to 64 or Sunshine.
not to knock Galaxy but the level design kind of clashes with that objective-based stuff. this is where i think they really fixed things in Odyssey (at least you don't leave the damn stage anymore after finding a single moon!)
not to knock Galaxy but the level design kind of clashes with that objective-based stuff. this is where i think they really fixed things in Odyssey (at least you don't leave the damn stage anymore after finding a single moon!)
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-Arcadia-
Banned
I felt similarly. Their previous game, Jungle Beat, did similar things, essentially giving you an amazing ride that... kind of just winds down slowly with a lot of recycled content, rather than going out on a high note.
I think it was Galaxy 2 or 3D Land where they finally figured this out. And made endgames so satisfying, they felt like a whole part or half of a game. Culminating with Odyssey, of course, which might be the single best example of an endgame ever.
Lionel Richie
Member
Man, Sunshine is such a fucking weird game. I'm very, very glad it exists. I love the setting, the levels are all awesome (I mean the level itself, not the objectives) and the controls work like a dream like 90% of the time. The problem is when that 10% kicks in or when you have to do some random bullshit for whatever reason. It's the best flawed game I can remember in that the flaws are VERY obvious and yet it never detracts from the experience and I can safely say I'm having a blast basically all the time.
Ninty would never release that today though.
Ninty would never release that today though.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Despite some of my issues, it’s still the most fun thing I’ve played all year, with every system contributing. I can’t understate what a great time I’ve had, and even am still having, doing clean-up (somewhere around 90 shines now).
If this wasn’t called Mario, and didn’t have those sky-high expectations, this would be everyone’s favorite sleeper cult classic platformer.
Lionel Richie
Member
It's awesome. It manages to be awesome despite some bad stuff thrown into the mix, which to me speaks volumes of how good the good part of Sunshine really is.
chimpsteaks
Member
Nintendo really just forced me to play Galaxy 2 on Dolphin because they refused to sell me the game
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
Sunshine is indeed a weird one but I love it.