Straight up... The combat in The Last of Us Part II is completely and entirely unmatched.

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
TLoU2 is a really good interactive movie, with a solid plot and some of the best animations in gaming.

The controls are shit tho'. And that's something Naughty Dog abandoned since their early days.

That's just the way it is
 

DForce

Member
TLoU2 is a really good interactive movie, with a solid plot and some of the best animations in gaming.

The controls are shit tho'. And that's something Naughty Dog abandoned since their early days.

That's just the way it is
There's a reason why people are still playing the first game's multiplayer after all these years.


You don't get too many multiplayer titles that last this long.
 

DForce

Member
Oh shit, not maximilian dood, the word of your god has spoken so you must be right.
Oh shit, you're own words are gospel.

Tell me, do many people hate the controls or not?
You can easily google search anything to confirm your own bias, it's literally called confirmation bias., but sure go with an ad hominem again, that will earn you more internet points..

No, you're just in denial. First you said it was your first time hearing about it now when I offered proof, you move the goalpost.


One example.

Look at how many people shit on the controls.
If you hate tank controls, then it's easily "deniable".
I love just about every single mainline RE game. Tank controls don't bother me.

You're running out of excuses after your "first time hearing about this" claim failed.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
There's a reason why people are still playing the first game's multiplayer after all these years.


You don't get too many multiplayer titles that last this long.
People are still playing Warhawk - that doesn't mean it holds up to todays standards.
 

T0minator

Member
TLoU2 is a really good interactive movie, with a solid plot and some of the best animations in gaming.

The controls are shit tho'. And that's something Naughty Dog abandoned since their early days.

That's just my opinion


Corrected your last sentence. You're welcome.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Visually, and with sound design, TLOU2 *does* have impressive combat. Very visceral, very realistic, the sounds of crunching bone and blood splatter and gurgling and ruptured flesh, it's all done to a scarily realistic effect.

As far as mechanically, I feel it's about on par with PS3 era TPS games. The cover points are still obvious (though less frequent) and the only advancements to mobility are essentially prone/prone shooting, dodge, and a completely useless jump. Characters aim slow, maneuver slow, recover slow. There's not nearly as much innovation as I was expecting as far as equipment or environmental utility, basically just cover spots, guns, melee, and mines/bombs. I was hoping there'd be more stealth tools, or equipment, perhaps knocking or whistling to pull guards a la MGS, maybe an in water takedown for areas like the mall, lots of options. If they included stealth, they could have (and hopefully in the future will) go further than tall grass.

But again, there were improvements. The small addition of mobility features, improved verticality in levels, a (severely barebones) stealth option, and the dogs. The Rat King also proved that the combat is solid if they decide to throw in more set piece boss creatures down the line. The enemy AI is better, but not up to what I think ND is capable of, and if the player controls don't see a sharp increase, any improvement to the AI will start to feel cheap. Balance.
 

Aldric

Member
Reading the thread in full and I have no idea what's supposed to make TloU2's gameplay so great. It just reads like marketing jargon. "The bar has been raised" "Naughty Dog are masters of the craft" "it's so visceral and the attention to detail is unmatched" I feel like I'm reading an IGN review. What the fuck are you talking about? What does TloU2 do that other console shooters don't? It's 30fps, with awkward stick aiming, simplistic stealth, simplistic melee and none of its mechanics are remotely original. Do you guys play any other game outside of Sony exclusives?
 

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Oh shit, you're own words are gospel.
no, but I form my own opinions, instead of parroting the great maximilion dood, or any other youtuber.
Tell me, do many people hate the controls or not?
I don't know, probably? There's many people that hate the tank controls, there's many people that hated god hand's control's, there's many people that can't get a grip MHW's controls, this doesn't mean another view isn't valid as well.
No, you're just in denial. First you said it was your first time hearing about it now when I offered proof, you move the goalpost.
What goalpost?
I said it was the first time I was hearing about controls being awful, saying you can google anything to confirm your own bias isn't moving the goalpost, because it doesn't change the fact that it was my first time hearing that complaint.
One example.
one example:

one more:

This is just to the point to show that you can google anything to support your argument, because holy shit people have different opinions on things, wow!

With that I can actually reverse your question on you:
Tell me, do many people hate the controls or not?
Tell me, do many people not hate the controls?
You don't have to answer, because the answer is the same: probably.
I love just about every single mainline RE game. Tank controls don't bother me.
Ok, but this isn't about you, this is about the people it does bother, unless what you are saying is, that because it doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother anyone else?
You're running out of excuses after your "first time hearing about this" claim failed.
...how did my claim fail? Nothing you've said so far changes anything about my statement.
 

T0minator

Member
Reading the thread in full and I have no idea what's supposed to make TloU2's gameplay so great. It just reads like marketing jargon. "The bar has been raised" "Naughty Dog are masters of the craft" "it's so visceral and the attention to detail is unmatched" I feel like I'm reading an IGN review. What the fuck are you talking about? What does TloU2 do that other console shooters don't? It's 30fps, with awkward stick aiming, simplistic stealth, simplistic melee and none of its mechanics are remotely original. Do you guys play any other game outside of Sony exclusives?


What 3rd person games similar in style TLOU2 has better gameplay scenarios and combat options? I'm curious what you would consider to be a better shooter.
 

Aldric

Member
What 3rd person games similar in style
That's just moving the goalposts, now you're asking for stealth/action games only but that's not what this thread is about, it's about TloU2's combat being unmatched in the entire industry which is obvious nonsense.

That being said if we're talking about stealth games then as I said earlier in the thread MGS5 offers far more options than TloU2.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Lol I actually went through the first 4 pages of that thread, and there's actually only one person on the first page mentioning "clunky" controls.
There's only one other poster on the first page saying the combat is bad, the vast majority say otherwise, up till the page I read at least, page 4.
So since the majority, on the first 4 pages at least, say otherwise to your claim of "awful controls", the example you provided doesn't support your argument at all. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

CutePoP

Banned
Gears? The gameplay is outdated now, it was good in late 2000s and nope Last of us 2 has benchmark gunplay for a survival action game with horror genre trying to achieve realistic animations and gunplay, gears is arcade for kids

Tlou2 gameplay, level design is literally like a high benchmark now for other games.
 
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CitizenZ

Banned
When these type of comments or threads or made I have to remind them of F.E.A.R., Condemned, etc. Yea, there a lot of good studios doing solid work but to say one has done it best, nah fam. There is a reason things today seem better to those less educated its because someone laid it down prior.
 
When the AI begs for their life like at the end of that clip, what happens if you don't kill them?

Do they go full "NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE" mode like in Skyrim?

Yes, actually.

Well, some do, I believe. Some might actually run away scared.

Can't remember, been a long while.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Also, interjection toward absolutely no one in particular, Resident Evil 6 was big, flashy, loud, stupid, and fun as hell. Was about as scary as Pan's Labryinth if it were directed by Michael Bay and written by Rian Johnson, but DAMN those were some solid TPS mechanics and lots of variations of enemies and environments to use them on.
 

Batiman

Member
It was pretty great but the rest of the package sort of spoiled it for me. It was just boring as hell for me. I’m not even part of the “it’s too woke” crowd. That’s not my problem. It was just boring all around for me. Environments, little dialogue segments characters etc. I don’t have a problem with gore either but it felt like they wanted some easy shock moments.
 

sainraja

Member
TLOU: P2's combat's really good and can stand on its own — some of the things I have been able to pull off and specially what I have seen other people pull off, the dynamicness of the gameplay is really impressive. Other games have different systems working for them and aren't trying to go for or achieve what TLOU is. But not surprising that TLOU: P2 has triggered so many haters that they will go to any length to try to dismiss or downplay it. lol. Reading this thread has been entertaining.

Love the new definition of a QTE and specially love how people try to downplay ND's focus on animation and translating that into "not" gameplay. I don't know if these people have realized this yet but regardless of what game they are playing, they are still "pressing" buttons to take actions that were designed by the studios behind the games, you are not actually in the game doing anything or pulling off anything the developers didn't design for you to do, even those sequences that might seem unscripted — it happens within the sandbox they have designed with systems/controls they have put in. Calling pressing a button to open a door a QTE is borderline trolling.

I have my problems with how they structured and told the story but it wasn't my story to tell; regardless, the gameplay for TLOU: P2 shines in ways that I never expected and it's very dynamic and I love how ND pays attention to that. I wish other developers did. I am not even talking about the specific things people have mentioned in this thread. Just take movement of the characters for example (and this was true even as far back as the first Uncharted — they have come a long way from that — the animation they use and how the characters behave when moving (when you pull forward on the left stick for movement)....pretty neat, but ofcourse, the haters/fanboys/trolls will just call this a "movie" since ND made good use of animation, when you do exactly the same thing (movement wise) in other games but their animation isn't as dynamic or smooth but sure, they will have no problem saying that's gameplay (I am using a basic example on purpose.)

Ah well — haters/fanboys/trolls, will do what they do best. It is best not to feed them.
 
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JayK47

Member
I guess my dick doesn't get hard from that level of brutality. I never cared for shows like The Walking Dead. Not a fan of torture porn, etc.

Even if I didn't have small kids running around the house, I would not want to play this game. It is fucked up on so many levels and the nonstop idolizing of the game is tiring. It still seems to get a new thread every week or so. FFS. Not one video I have seen has made me want to play it. I could barely stomach the violence in the first game and it is clear to me that they went balls deep in it for this game and seemed very proud of their achievement.

I enjoy shooters, but the up close and personal brutality of this game I feel should not be so celebrated. Just my opinion, which clearly is the minority around here. Please continue enjoying your gore porn.
 

DavidGzz

Gold Member
For me, it doesn't matter very much when these games are one and done. It was amazing, but I beat it and will most likely never play it again. Give me this visceral combat in an RPG with different builds. That's the hard part. Making this all work with dozens of weapons, magic, etc. Something that I want to play over and over like I do with the Dark Souls games. I'm hoping we see something like that this generation.
 

Aldric

Member
I guess my dick doesn't get hard from that level of brutality. I never cared for shows like The Walking Dead. Not a fan of torture porn, etc.

Even if I didn't have small kids running around the house, I would not want to play this game. It is fucked up on so many levels and the nonstop idolizing of the game is tiring. It still seems to get a new thread every week or so. FFS. Not one video I have seen has made me want to play it. I could barely stomach the violence in the first game and it is clear to me that they went balls deep in it for this game and seemed very proud of their achievement.

I enjoy shooters, but the up close and personal brutality of this game I feel should not be so celebrated. Just my opinion, which clearly is the minority around here. Please continue enjoying your gore porn.
It's also really weird how fans of the game flaunt these gifs of brutal executions as if this was Manhunt or some shit because I'm pretty sure the entire pre release marketing campaign had the devs going "um no sweaty we don't use the word "fun" anymore we want to make u think about violence =)" and now somehow the game has turned into a better action experience than more dedicated arcade games. It's like they want to have their cake and eat it too, it's at the same time a deep exploration of the cycle of violence but also the greatest action game ever made, dude look at how cool this looks when I vaporize that hoe after splattering her dog, the stakes have been raised bro!!
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Member
It's also really weird how fans of the game flaunt these gifs of brutal executions as if this was Manhunt or some shit
I guess it's just a love for torture porn or something.
Even the executions in AC valhalla make me wince sometimes, especially the one with their own giant axe; the enemy puts up their hands in a desperate attempt to block the axe, but you just cut of their hands and bury the axe in their collarbone, it's fucking brutal as shit. At least Valhalla doesn't go to far into the edgy, gritty "realism" the fans of this game seem to be so enamoured with.
 

Vognerful

Member
I am sorry to say this but are people just saying that the developers made many animations for NPCs when they get hit? Because that's all I saw in your gifs.
 

Represent.

Member
I guess my dick doesn't get hard from that level of brutality. I never cared for shows like The Walking Dead. Not a fan of torture porn, etc.

Even if I didn't have small kids running around the house, I would not want to play this game. It is fucked up on so many levels and the nonstop idolizing of the game is tiring. It still seems to get a new thread every week or so. FFS. Not one video I have seen has made me want to play it. I could barely stomach the violence in the first game and it is clear to me that they went balls deep in it for this game and seemed very proud of their achievement.

I enjoy shooters, but the up close and personal brutality of this game I feel should not be so celebrated. Just my opinion, which clearly is the minority around here. Please continue enjoying your gore porn.

It's also really weird how fans of the game flaunt these gifs of brutal executions as if this was Manhunt or some shit because I'm pretty sure the entire pre release marketing campaign had the devs going "um no sweaty we don't use the word "fun" anymore we want to make u think about violence =)" and now somehow the game has turned into a better action experience than more dedicated arcade games. It's like they want to have their cake and eat it too, it's at the same time a deep exploration of the cycle of violence but also the greatest action game ever made, dude look at how cool this looks when I vaporize that hoe after splattering her dog, the stakes have been raised bro!!
You two are too soft for this game. It has themes of hate, revenge, violence and yes, even love.. Its not torture porn, its gritty and realistic. If you want sparks to fly after you shoot someone in the head instead of blood then go play Fortnite. Some of us appreciate games that dont hold back and have a realistic level of brutality. These kinds of games need to exist and they push the medium forward.
 
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Aldric

Member
You two are too soft for this game. It has themes of hate, revenge, violence and yes, even love.. Its not torture porn, its gritty and realistic. If you want sparks to fly after you shoot someone in the head instead of blood then go play Fortnite. Some of us appreciate games that dont hold back and have a realistic level of brutality. These kinds of games need to exist and they push the medium forward.
You completely missed the point, but suit yourself.
 

tmlDan

Member
im not surprised by the reaction in this thread, some boomers are stuck in the 90's with their non-reactive super combo fetishes.

LoU2 is above and beyond all games in terms of realism, impact, feel, immersion of combat and everything already listed in this thread.

Devs need to be more ambitious and learn something from them, those games that are trying to be serious with non-reactive combat are a fkn joke in 2021 and ruins the immersion.
 

FritzJ92

Member
TLoU2 is the best version of TLoU2. No other game can out do TLoU more than TLoU2.

For reference I feel this way about it a lot of games that are heavily aimed at a specific gameplay style.
No one does Halo better than Halo, COD than COD, Mario Kart than Mario Kart.

However I do think Forza Motorsport does GT better than GT.
 

kyliethicc

Member

FritzJ92

Member
Yup.

Destiny is probably better Halo. I mean its literally Bungie's other sci-fi FPS and it has actually evolved since 2001, unlike Halo.


Lol nope.
Destiny isn’t anything like Halo though, only the developer is the same as the first 3 Halos. Destiny is kind of it’s own, but you can see some Halo roots in it.

GT has honestly dropped and FM has filled the void at least until next year.
 
It's funny - in the 80s and 90s when the tech really wasn't there yet, you would get so many awesome stories and worlds being created by great artists and writers - but they were all hamstrung by the still fairly primitive technology which meant they couldn't make these worlds come alive and feel as believable as they wanted.

Now, we have the exact opposite situation. How many games have you played or movies have you watched, where everything looks and feels so amazing you can hardly believe it - but it's wrapped up in stories, characters and worlds that are often so bad you can barely stomach it.

It's just weird how that situation has become reversed. If we can get both aspects of art and entertainment firing on all cylinders, we'd really have something.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Maybe not in TPP but Killzone 2 did this all the way back in 2009. It still has tech/features like blood clotting or wind physics that haven't been replicated ever since. I'm still pissed how it got robbed by UC2 from all the graphics/tech awards.
 

Mess

Member
Maybe the video in OP is a very bad case for it but how can this be considered visceral when it's slow, clunky and animations carry no weight whatsoever?

Some people have low standards.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Even the executions in AC valhalla make me wince sometimes, especially the one with their own giant axe; the enemy puts up their hands in a desperate attempt to block the axe, but you just cut of their hands and bury the axe in their collarbone, it's fucking brutal as shit. At least Valhalla doesn't go to far into the edgy, gritty "realism" the fans of this game seem to be so enamoured with.
Valhalla finishers are utter shit, they glitch half of the times, enemies compenetrate with the ground, collisions are hit and miss (literally) and i'm not even sure if they have proper ragdoll when they die.

There is an universe of difference between valhalla and tlou2 in terms of polished violence that is not even funny.

If you wince with that shit, i don't know how can you even play tlou2 without regularly puking your soul out since the difference in fidelity/realism is night and day.

I'm okay with the other arguments you make, but valhalla even being on the same topic of tlou2 is not one of them.

Ubisoft tried the edgy/violent way but they are just inept when it comes to animations blending and polish.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Maybe the video in OP is a very bad case for it but how can this be considered visceral when it's slow, clunky and animations carry no weight whatsoever?

Some people have low standards.
Ok now i'm curious to see your example of meaty, gorey combat with realistic\weighty animations...
 
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Mess

Member
Ok now i'm curious to see your example of meaty, gorey combat with realistic\weighty animations...

Realistic and weighty are different things imo. The animation in that vid are realistic but not weighty, think hollywood kung-fu movies compared to, say, ong-bak.

To answer your question and in different genres, and not going for realism I'd say Sifu, DOOM 2016 and recent SF games have weighty animations.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Realistic and weighty are different things imo. The animation in that vid are realistic but not weighty, think hollywood kung-fu movies compared to, say, ong-bak.

To answer your question and in different genres, and not going for realism I'd say Sifu, DOOM 2016 and recent SF games have weighty animations.
Sifu, doom and sf have weighty animations worth of being mentioned over tlou2?! Is this a joke for any chance? Sifu looks as silly and unnaturally fast as any kung fu movie in existence, sf has cartoony exagerate animations and they can't be that heavy because the gameplay would be too slow for a beat em up, and doom doesn't have more weighty animations than many other fps and inferior to many others.

Not seeing the weight in tlou2 animations and that list of games you made make me think that you and i have different meanings of what constitute weighty and realistic animations my dude.

The only thing about tlou2 that puts any console warrior in the same page are his weighty and realistic animations, even the hater admit that.
 

Mess

Member
Sifu, doom and sf have weighty animations worth of being mentioned over tlou2?! Is this a joke for any chance? Sifu looks as silly and unnaturally fast as any kung fu movie in existence, sf has cartoony exagerate animations and they can't be that heavy because the gameplay would be too slow for a beat em up, and doom doesn't have more weighty animations than many other fps and inferior to many others.

Not seeing the weight in tlou2 animations and that list of games you made make me think that you and i have different meanings of what constitute weighty and realistic animations my dude.

The only thing about tlou2 that puts any console warrior in the same page are his weighty and realistic animations, even the hater admit that.

I didn't say it was realistic but ye it's heavier. If you can't see that idk what to say.

And if you think the combat animations in OP's vid is *realistic*, especially the reactions on pyisical hits then you're confusing hollywood movies and reality. But tbh it's prolly what ND was going for and I'm not denying their craftmanship here, but that vid was a very bad case for the hyperbolic praise of it's combat.
 
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