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News Hardware Steam Deck Supports Ray Tracing, VRS, and Other Stores; Programmer Compares It to Xbox Series X in Performance per Pixel

ethomaz

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I don't plan to buy any RDNA v1 (DX12 FL12_1).
Nice but that has nothing to do with what I said.
5700XT will run games better and for more time than Deck.
 

rnlval

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Nice but that has nothing to do with what I said.
5700XT will run games better and for more time than Deck.
RX 5700XT does NOT run the next-generation graphics pipeline programming model from DX12U. Sorry, RTX 2070 would be my choice over RX 5700 XT.

RX 5700XT is stuck in the legacy graphics pipeline programming model.
 
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ethomaz

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RX 5700XT does NOT run the next-generation graphics pipeline programming model from DX12U. Sorry, RTX 2070 would be my choice over RX 5700 XT.
That is nice and doesn't change anything I said.
5700XT will run games better and for more time than Deck including next-gen games.
 
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ethomaz

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When the programmer combines the graphics pipeline stages, RX 5700 XT will be dead.
That won't happen on PC in the near/mid future... because they will just offer features on/off.
Deck is be dead before games on PC requires anything over 5700XT.
 
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rnlval

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That won't happen on PC in the near/mid future... because they will just offer features on/off.

Try again.
 

pratyush

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Will game run on 480p on this? Since most XSX games don't run at 4k. I seriously don't see the point of this machine. Atleast Nintendo has a library of games that you can't play anywhere else.
 

ethomaz

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Try again.
You have no ideia what are you talking about.
That is a nVidia pic.
On nVidia cards with no Mesh Shard support it uses the Legagy pipeline... it will only use the Mesh Shader pipeline on compatible cards.

All cards still runs it.
 

rnlval

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You have no ideia what are you talking about.
That is a nVidia pic.
On nVidia cards with no Mesh Shard support it uses the Legagy pipeline... it will only use the Mesh Shader pipeline on compatible cards.

All cards still runs it.
PC RDNA 2 and XSS/XSX supports Turing RTX/Ampere RTX next-generation graphics pipeline programming model.

RX 5700 XT does NOT run Vulkan/DX12U mesh shader.

You have no idea what are you talking about.
 

ethomaz

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PC RDNA 2 and XSS/XSX supports Turing RTX/Ampere RTX next-generation graphics pipeline programming model.

RX 5700 XT does NOT run Vulkan/DX12U mesh shader.

You have no idea what are you talking about.
Man you are really crazy.

A card doesn't need to support Mesh Shaders to run future games.
Actually the mininum specs are all there in the low-end cards that doesn't support mesh shaders.

Justice is a game that take use of nVidia Mesh Shaders but you know it plays on RX 5700XT and even in every old low-end GPUs without Mesh Shaders too.

What are you trying to say is that 5700XT will be out of the minimum in the future games... I can only laugh about that because Deck will be dead way before the minimum reaches that.

You are living a bobble believing in 10 years we will have games that only works from RX 6800 and up lol
 
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Dampf

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You have no ideia what are you talking about.
That is a nVidia pic.
On nVidia cards with no Mesh Shard support it uses the Legagy pipeline... it will only use the Mesh Shader pipeline on compatible cards.

All cards still runs it.
And you believe devs will always continue to program for two pipelines, mesh and vertex, when even the lowest common denominator for next gen games, the Series S supports it as well as ton of GPUs?

Nah. At some point, devs just won't bother with legacy hardware, like it always has been with a generational shift. Developing with only one pipeline and HW-RT in mind saves a shitton of time and resources. RDNA1 is legacy hardware, while RDNA2, Ampere and Turing GPUs as well as the next gen consoles, are next gen hardware.

BTW, Justice doesn't use Mesh Shading. No game currently uses Sampler Feedback or Mesh Shading as games have to be built from the ground up with these features in mind.
 
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rnlval

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Man you are really crazy.

A card doesn't need to support Mesh Shaders to run future games.
Actually the mininum specs are all there in the low-end cards that doesn't support mesh shaders.

Justice is a game that take use of nVidia Mesh Shaders but you know it plays on RX 5700XT and even in every old low-end GPUs without Mesh Shaders too.

What are you trying to say is that 5700XT will be out of the minimum in the future games... I can only laugh about that because Deck will be dead way before the minimum reaches that.
Programmer needs to create two code paths for mash shader and legacy paths. The legacy path can be dropped in future games.
 

rnlval

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And you believe devs will always continue to program for two pipelines, mesh and vertex, when even the lowest common denominator for next gen games, the Series S supports it as well as ton of GPUs?

Nah. At some point, devs just won't bother with legacy hardware, like it always has been with a generational shift. Developing with one pipeline in mind saves a shitton of time and resources. RDNA1 is legacy hardware, while RDNA2, Ampere and Turing GPUs as well as the next gen consoles, are next gen hardware.

BTW, Justice doesn't use Mesh Shading. No game currently uses Sampler Feedback or Mesh Shading as games have to be built from the ground up with these features in mind.
Justice MMO has a mesh shading code path. We are in the transition phase.
 

Dampf

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Justice MMO has a mesh shading code path. We are in the transition phase.
That is a featureset demonstration. It is not implemented in the game itself and a 5700XT would obviously not run this feature test.
 
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rnlval

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Man you are really crazy.

A card doesn't need to support Mesh Shaders to run future games.
Actually the mininum specs are all there in the low-end cards that doesn't support mesh shaders.

Justice is a game that take use of nVidia Mesh Shaders but you know it plays on RX 5700XT and even in every old low-end GPUs without Mesh Shaders too.

What are you trying to say is that 5700XT will be out of the minimum in the future games... I can only laugh about that because Deck will be dead way before the minimum reaches that.

You are living a bobble believing in 10 years we will have games that only works from RX 6800 and up lol
Intel Skylake weak DX12 IGP can still run DX12 games while DX11 only HD 6990 can't run DX12 games.

Unlike NVIDIA's Kelper DX11 HW with DX12 support, AMD didn't backport DX12 for HD 69xx GPU family. AMD wants you to buy a new GPU.
 
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ethomaz

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And you believe devs will always continue to program for two pipelines, mesh and vertex, when even the lowest common denominator for next gen games, the Series S supports it as well as ton of GPUs?

Nah. At some point, devs just won't bother with legacy hardware, like it always has been with a generational shift. Developing with only one pipeline and HW-RT in mind saves a shitton of time and resources. RDNA1 is legacy hardware, while RDNA2, Ampere and Turing GPUs as well as the next gen consoles, are next gen hardware.

BTW, Justice doesn't use Mesh Shading. No game currently uses Sampler Feedback or Mesh Shading as games have to be built from the ground up with these features in mind.
Wrong... Justice has Mesh Shading.
 

Dampf

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Wrong... Justice has Mesh Shading.
No it doesn't. If it would have mesh shading, tech press like DF would go nuts analysing it.
There are zero videos of mesh shading in the actual game. It's literally just that featureset demo.

Maybe it is planned though. But right now, the game itself does not use mesh shaders.
 
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ethomaz

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No it doesn't. If it would have mesh shading, tech press like DF would go nuts analysing it.
There are zero videos of mesh shading in the actual game. It's literally just that featureset demo.

Maybe it is planned though. But right now, the game itself does not use mesh shaders.
Man...

It is an already released update.

"Recently, NetEase introduced Mesh Shader support to Justice. Not only are the updated environments breathtaking, the game supports 1.8 billion triangles running over 60 FPS in 4K on an NVIDIA 3060Ti. "


It added support to DLSS and others new techs too.
 
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Dampf

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Man...

It is an already released update.

"Recently, NetEase introduced Mesh Shader support to Justice. Not only are the updated environments breathtaking, the game supports 1.8 billion triangles running over 60 FPS in 4K on an NVIDIA 3060Ti. "


It added support to DLSS and others new techs too.
That's cool.

But I see it's only available in China, so that's why there's no footage of this game with mesh shaders here. That's a shame...
 

ethomaz

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That's cool.

But I see it's only available in China, so that's why there's no footage of this game with mesh shaders here. That's a shame...
The games is a Chinese MMO… it doesn’t have a west version.

But for more weird it looks… it is popular in the west to the point to people have tutorials to install Chinese language pack on Windows to make the game runs.
 
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DavidGzz

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It's funny the hate this thing gets. If this much power was announced for an upcoming PS Vita 2 or a Switch Pro I think certain people wouldn't be naysaying it so much, they'd be giddy af
 
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Epic Sax CEO

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It appears that this APU have some DSP from Cadence, similar to what Microsoft added to the Boxes thinking on using it for ML.




Each C5 does 1024 MACs per cycle, all on 8bit matrix operations. With two of each, we get 2560 MACs per cycle.
Assuming the same 1.6GHz clocks as the GPU*, the total combined throughput of the 4 DSPs is 4.096 TMACs, or 8.192 TOPs.
 
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Fredrik

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It's funny the hate this thing gets. If this much power was announced for an upcoming PS Vita 2 or a Switch Pro I think certain people wouldn't be naysaying it so much, they'd be giddy af
The truth. And it makes no sense to even be negative. Where is it coming from? It’s just a handheld PC. A portable alternative. A keyboard-less laptop with smaller screen and an elite controller built in. As said before Steam Deck can benefit Sony fans, Xbox fans, Nintendo fans, PC fans, everyone can get something cool from it, and nobody will get anything bad from it. Why are people negative? If you don’t want it. Don’t buy it. What’s the deal? 🤷‍♂️
 
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rnlval

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The Steam Deck is powered by AMD's RDNA 2 architecture, so it's not surprising to hear straight from Valve's Pierre-Loup Griffais that the hardware support DirectX 12 Ultimate features like variable rate shading (VRS) and acceleration for ray tracing, but it's always good to get confirmation.

The hardware is very powerful for its target resolution of 1280x800. In fact, programmer and modder Peter 'Durante' Thomas likened it to an Xbox Series X in 'performance per pixel' (via RobotBrush).


Sounds like a great portable PC. I might get one down the road.

Steam Deck's 128 bit LPDDR5-5500 yields 88 GB/s + RDNA's "Delta Color Compression Everywhere" improves memory bandwidth bound issues.

Deck's 88 GB/s memory bandwidth is 15.7% of Xbox Series X (XSX)'s 560 GB/s memory bandwidth. Both machines have RDNA's "Delta Color Compression Everywhere" and shared memory model.

Deck's 1280 x 720 = 921,600 pixels

if XSX aimed for 3840 x 2160 = 8,294,400 pixels.

if XSX aimed for 3,200 x 1800 = 5,760,000 pixels

15.7% of 8,294,400 = 1,303,405 pixels, Deck has more than performance for 720p scale when XSX version has 2160p

15.7% of 5,760,000 = 905,142 pixels, Deck has enough performance for 720p scale when XSX version has 1800p

On performance per pixel, Deck is like XSX.
 
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GHG

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With the news that every game on Proton will have FSR, here's what you can expect from FSR at 540p to 1080p, vs 1080p, in Control: https://imgsli.com/NjIyMjQ

I'm actually intrigued to see what FSR will look like on a smaller screen.

I've been critical of it for bigger screen PC gaming because the flaws are much more apparent but I'd imagine on a smaller screen they would be much more difficult to spot.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out.
 

Sean Mirrsen

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Dam lol. if they can push FSR in everything. That thing is going to have legs.
Apparently they already can, as a brute-force sort of option. It will upscale everything, UI and post-effects included, rather than being used in the middle of the render process (thus preserving details in the UI and letting post-effects work on a better picture), but it's usable.

However, as I noticed above, it does seem odd how it makes the FPS go lower than when native rendering, in the comparison image.
Maybe it's just an FPS limiter?
 
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Kenpachii

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Apparently they already can, as a brute-force sort of option. It will upscale everything, UI and post-effects included, rather than being used in the middle of the render process (thus preserving details in the UI and letting post-effects work on a better picture), but it's usable.

However, as I noticed above, it does seem odd how it makes the FPS go lower than when native rendering, in the comparison image.
Maybe it's just an FPS limiter?

the usage is also weird. i think its more of a picture quality comparison.

However FSR is no joke at performance. I get like 84 fps with a 1080ti at ultra settings in gpu benchmark in riftbreaker,, its 184 fps with fsr performance, anno is like 42 fps to 102 fps.

With the small screen, honestly performance isn't going to be that much of a cutback.

If FSR is enabled by default in every game, that steam deck is going to have some serious legs
 
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Rikkori

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...why is native having better performance in that comparison?
That was just a frame limit in place. The only relevant part of that comparison is image quality. I can see now that I should've specified that in the first place, but it seemed obvious to me. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Ev1L AuRoN

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Good but rarely games run native on the Series X so no. The gap is still huge even at 800p.

Try to compare it with 1440~1800p to have a more realistic parallel between the two.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

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Valve will ship it with Linux to avoid paying Microsoft a windows license fee for every deck that is sold but once it's in the hands of people I see a lot of people doing exactly that with it.

It's what I'll be doing with mine, unless anything changes I see no reason not to.
I wonder if I choose to install windows on it, the steam client will have the same UI as the native OS. Big Picture is needing an upgrade for some time now. Crossing my fingers to see the Steam Deck new UI ported to the Steam Client.
 

Sean Mirrsen

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Anyone that honestly expects to get XSX performance from this tiny PC in 2021 is a fool.
Nobody expects XSX performance out of it, because we literally know it's not true. But it's objectively true that it has enough render performance for 720p @ 30fps, to match an XSX rendering the same content at 4K @ 60fps. XSX needs to render 9 times the pixels, at 2 times the framerate, so it needs 18 times the rendering power. And an XSX only has a 12-teraflop GPU, when the Deck's is 1-teraflop (actually 1.6, but subject to thermal limits).

The CPU in the Deck is only half the power of the XSX's, but if you're aiming for half the framerate you probably only need the half.

So any game that manages to hit 4K@60 on the XSX, will almost certainly be playable on the Deck at 720p@30. More intensive games, and SSD-heavy games, will definitely suffer, but since it's a PC you'll be able to also lower the graphics settings, often much lower than any console can go, so you might be able to win back performance even for those titles.