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News Hardware Steam Deck Supports Ray Tracing, VRS, and Other Stores; Programmer Compares It to Xbox Series X in Performance per Pixel

01011001

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Why wouldn't they just scale back other things before needing to lower the resolution that much? Like effects on low, or a lower level of detail at a distance. The Switch ran The Witcher 3, I think the Deck will be fine for the whole gen.

because at some point the Steam Deck will have issues playing games at low as well.

The Witcher 3 on Switch runs at the lowest settings and goes down to below 480p30, and that's a 6 year old game that was designed with low end PCs of that time in mind.
so of course it runs on Switch, barely...

and yes, the Steam Deck will be the same. at one point, my guess is in about 4 years, new AAA games will run at like 480p30fps on this
 

Bo_Hazem

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The Steam Deck is powered by AMD's RDNA 2 architecture, so it's not surprising to hear straight from Valve's Pierre-Loup Griffais that the hardware support DirectX 12 Ultimate features like variable rate shading (VRS) and acceleration for ray tracing, but it's always good to get confirmation.

The hardware is very powerful for its target resolution of 1280x800. In fact, programmer and modder Peter 'Durante' Thomas likened it to an Xbox Series X in 'performance per pixel' (via RobotBrush).



Sounds like a great portable PC. I might get one down the road.

pile GIF


The "our princess in another castle" comment might be related to the upcoming PC handheld from Tencent, who own ~48% of Epic Games.



This actually looks more made for human hands.
 
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Mr Branding

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Seems some people are already PR parrots without even have one in their hands. Hope you are not top disappointed in the end.
Can’t be worse than Switch. I will get it because Nintendo’s exclusive do nothing for me, ant the games look like shit on it. I know exactly what I’m getting. It seems the naysayers are the PR parrots to me…
 

ToTTenTranz

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This is what I was saying in the steam deck thread. 4k is 9 times 720p. 1.6tf x9 is 14.4tf.
4K is 3840 × 2160, which is 8294400 pixels.
The Deck is 1280 × 800, which is 1024000 pixels.

4K is 8.1 × Deck's resolution.


Regardless, neither the PS5 nor the Series X usually target full 4K. In most AAA games that push the hardware they use a dynamic resolution between 1440p and 1800p coupled with temporal upscaling, because rendering at full 4K is a waste of resources. With future FSR iterations, Microsoft's ML upscaling and UE5's TSR becoming the norm, I doubt either of them will be rendering above 1440p. Which is good because the consoles' compute resources can be better used for other stuff like raytracing, physics, etc.

However, I don't know if these upscaling techniques will be practical to use on the Deck.
 

Dampf

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It uses RDNA2 which has all the crucial next gen features like Sampler Feedback, Mesh Shading, VRS and HW-Raytracing.

Steam Deck is going to run some next gen games that won't run on a 5700XT anymore.
 

ethomaz

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It uses RDNA2 which has all the crucial next gen features like Sampler Feedback, Mesh Shading, VRS and HW-Raytracing.

Steam Deck is going to run some next gen games that won't run on a 5700XT anymore.
All games runs on 5700XT pretty well actually.
It is probably the opposite... some future games won't run on Desk but it will be run fine on 5700XT.
 

rodrigolfp

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What the hell are you expecting from a portable device mate.
Though i suppose it might be able to run fs2020 at medium/low settings.
I just expect to see benchmarks to see how far it can go... And people not calling smoothly sub 60fps...
 
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Dampf

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All games runs on 5700XT pretty well actually.
It is probably the opposite... some future games won't run on Desk but it will be run fine on 5700XT.
I am talking about future next gen only games, not cross gen games.

Todays games do not make use of next gen features at all. Only some have tacked on Raytracing and VRS, but even these features are only used rudimentary (with exception for something like HW-Raytracing enabled Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, which won't run on a 5700XT)

You will definately have situations where a Steam Deck will run games better than a 5700XT or even at all in the future when games are built with that featureset in mind simply because it has all the crucial next generation features the 5700XT lacks.
 
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PaintTinJr

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so going from pixel difference between 4k and 720p there is a 9 factor.
From total pixel at 1440p that give us 480p.
But you also have to factor in the PPI to get an appreciation of the effective IQ on the 7" display, compared to...say a 42" or probably much higher with XsS.

The vita had a 5" display and was qHD (960x540 ), providing very similar image quality per pixel - if not superior IMO with UC on the vita - to a 32" 1080 TV running a PS3 game - despite the PS3 using much higher polygon counts and texture quality. So 1280x720 on a 7" should scale really well. ROP count for the steamdeck will probably determine how well it handles the scaling of new AAA games.
 

Sub Boss

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i never heard about performance per pixel before today but surely this means the Deck is an Xbox Series X just in 800p 😯
 

Captain Toad

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Oh Lord, hopefully we don't get another contender in DF VS threads. There will be pissed on ppl all over GAF...
Who will be pissed? Not Series X or PS5 fans. This thing won't compare favorably to those. It will obviously destroy the Switch's performance, though.
 

FStubbs

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Do you seriously think they would sell tens of millions of this per year? Like legit you think that? You think this would outsell every console?

Bananas. Absolutely bananas.




You should seriously just look at something like an S22 Ultra next year with the AMD gpu in it. Higher resolution screen, infinitely more pocketable, higher refresh rate, and will emulate all consoles up to the PS3 generation just as well as the Deck.
Unless you live in the US most likely, in which case you'll get the 2022 Snapdragon in your S22 Ultra.
 

rnlval

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Plus a OS that takes more from the system, plus an abstraction layer similar to emulation.

I agree it will delivery very similar to PS4… most games in 1080p 30fps or 900p 60fps… or in Deck terms 800p 70-80fps… low/mid settlings like PS4.
Proton API bridge is not an emulator since it doesn't have an instruction set lookup table. Both Direct3D12 and Vulkan are low-level APIs.

Instruction set lookup table slows down the translation process which is mitigated by JIT recomplier and static translation saved on disk.
 

rnlval

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All games runs on 5700XT pretty well actually.
It is probably the opposite... some future games won't run on Desk but it will be run fine on 5700XT.
The future games can gimp on RX 5700 XT since it doesn't have RDNA 2/Turing RTX/Ampere RTX hardware features. If a future game enforced mesh shader requirement, then it's game over for RX 5700 XT. Sell RX 5700 XT to miners.

RX 5700 XT 8 GB has inferior fine wine when compared to RTX 2070 (TU106) 8 GB. The minimum GPU hardware feature set for next-generation games is set by XSS.

For RX 5700 XT 8GB, if a game overspill the 8 GB VRAM, then it's 16 GB/s stream-in bottlenecks from the main memory via 16 lanes PCI-E version 3.0.

16 lanes PCI-E version 3.0 has 16 GB/s per direction or 32 GB/s full-duplex.
16 lanes PCI-E version 4.0 has 32 GB/s per direction or 64 GB/s full-duplex.
16 lanes PCI-E version 5.0 has 64 GB/s per direction or 128 GB/s full-duplex.

Steam Deck has a flat 88 GB/s memory bandwidth of 16 GB RAM storage. If I'm a student, I would buy RX 6800 16 GB over RTX 3070 8 GB (with 16 lanes PCI-E 4.0 version overspill insurance).
 
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ethomaz

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I am talking about future next gen only games, not cross gen games.

Todays games do not make use of next gen features at all. Only some have tacked on Raytracing and VRS, but even these features are only used rudimentary (with exception for something like HW-Raytracing enabled Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, which won't run on a 5700XT)

You will definately have situations where a Steam Deck will run games better than a 5700XT or even at all in the future when games are built with that featureset in mind simply because it has all the crucial next generation features the 5700XT lacks.
Yeap… future next-gen games will run on 5700XT fine and not on Deck.

And no… no future game ever will run better on Deck than 5700XT.
 
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ethomaz

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The future games can gimp on RX 5700 XT since it doesn't have RDNA 2/Turing RTX/Ampere RTX hardware features. If a future game enforced mesh shader requirement, then it's game over for RX 5700 XT. Sell RX 5700 XT to miners.

RX 5700 XT 8 GB has inferior fine wine when compared to RTX 2070 (TU106) 8 GB. The minimum GPU hardware feature set for next-generation games is set by XSS.

For RX 5700 XT 8GB, if a game overspill the 8 GB VRAM, then it's 16 GB/s stream-in bottlenecks from the main memory via 16 lanes PCI-E version 3.0.

16 lanes PCI-E version 3.0 has 16 GB/s per direction or 32 GB/s full-duplex.
16 lanes PCI-E version 4.0 has 32 GB/s per direction or 64 GB/s full-duplex.
16 lanes PCI-E version 5.0 has 64 GB/s per direction or 128 GB/s full-duplex.

Steam Deck has a flat 88 GB/s memory bandwidth of 16 GB RAM storage. If I'm a student, I would buy RX 6800 16 GB over RTX 3070 8 GB (with 16 lanes PCI-E 4.0 version overspill insurance).
You guys are crazy… that won’t happen ever.

Desk will become unplayable before 5700XT.
 

rnlval

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You guys are crazy… that won’t happen ever.

Desk will become unplayable before 5700XT.
1. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is already dead on RX 5700 XT. I wouldn't be buying RX 5700 XT over RTX 2070.

2. For a 15-25 watts mobile device, I'm NOT going to purchase or advise for yet another DirectX12 Feature level 12_1 iGPU i.e. Tigerlake Xe is dead along with Cezanne 's RX Vega 8.
 

kuncol02

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You should seriously just look at something like an S22 Ultra next year with the AMD gpu in it. Higher resolution screen, infinitely more pocketable, higher refresh rate, and will emulate all consoles up to the PS3 generation just as well as the Deck.
With 2x higher price and 3/4 of SteamDeck GPU (at best), also without physical controls.
 

yurinka

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Of course, but they're better than Steam Deck which is designed by aliens.
No, the Switch and Steam Deck left and right borders are paralel, which means your thumbs in a relaxed position are both in the upper side of the device and close to these borders. So it's more comfortable to have them there. And since hands of 99.99% human beings are symetrical, it's better to place both there.

To place them in a lower side, more separated from the borders destroys the ergonomics making you to open a lot your thumb position. Pads make more sense to have the analogs in the center, lower position because it's the natural position to place your thumbs when relaxed, because the left and side borders of the pads aren't paralel, but instead make a somewhat triangular shape.
 
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Ritsumei2020

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So are guys actually, seriously, claiming that a 10TF or so GPU will run games worse that a 1.5TF apu?

Now I have heard it all lol.

Next: Gabe cures cancer and creates sentient A.I. out of a commodore 64.
 
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Ritsumei2020

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But it's true, though. It's all about the resolution you're targeting. Why do you think so many 'next gen' games right now are cheating to hit 4k?

Honest answer? I think its dictated by TV makers. They need to increase resolution as a selling point, and games have to fill the screen space somehow.
 

ethomaz

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1. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is already dead on RX 5700 XT. I wouldn't be buying RX 5700 XT over RTX 2070.

2. For a 15-25 watts mobile device, I'm NOT going to purchase or advise for yet another DirectX12 Feature level 12_1 iGPU i.e. Tigerlake Xe is dead along with Cezanne 's RX Vega 8.
5700XT can play Metro Exodus with RT disabled… Ennhanced Edition is a new mode for the game in a stand-alone executable.

No game will be RT only in the near future and the if that happens it will be won’t run on Deck.
 
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ethomaz

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So are guys actually, seriously, claiming that a 10TF or so GPU will run games worse that a 1.5TF apu?

Now I have heard it all lol.

Next: Gabe cures cancer and creates sentient A.I. out of a commodore 64.
Yeap people are really crazy in this thread.

Deck won’t run games way before RX 5700XT.
 
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This is what I was saying in the steam deck thread. 4k is 9 times 720p. 1.6tf x9 is 14.4tf.
don't know if mentioned what happened with the rumored flawed low bandwidth issue on deck?
yeah, but can you pick up either of those two consoles and take them here to play?



or how about here?



maybe here?


Actually quite likely it is just a matter of software, just like cloud play, you can probably have remote play and play on simple tablet or cellphone if they release the right update to series x or ps5. Of course this added latency could be mitigated by taking the ps5 or xbox series x with you on your hotel or airbnb so that it is always local to the area you travel too(something difficult even for the cloud everywhere.). Also such latency would have no problem for certain game types , edit as I forgot to mention, such as turn based strategy or card games or turn based rpgs.
 
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mckmas8808

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Lol nonsense. 99% of games on xsx don't run at native 4k. Most go all the way down below 1440p. Metro was hitting 1100p. Doom in ray tracing was going down to 1200p.

Ue5 is targeting 1440p 30 fps for the xsx. Let's ask that programmer what would be the pixel level performance of this 1-1.6 tflops machine.

Exactly! Don't know why these "programmers" like to create false narratives.
 

Julius Ibidus

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Actually quite likely it is just a matter of software, just like cloud play, you can probably have remote play and play on simple tablet or cellphone if they release the right update to series x or ps5.

absolutely true. i've set up Moonlight on my home system and streamed games just fine from different locations (at least where i could get a decent connection). when it works, it works pretty well.
 

Esppiral

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No, human beings have symetrical hands. Analogs should be in the same position than the other one.
And because Humans have symmetrical hands, the main primary inputs should be in the same position, hence why the the left analog and face buttons should be in the same place and secondary inputs like the right analog (mainly for camera) and dpad should be relegated together on a lower position, it is not rocket science really.
 

yurinka

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And because Humans have symmetrical hands, the main primary inputs should be in the same position, hence why the the left analog and face buttons should be in the same place and secondary inputs like the right analog (mainly for camera) and dpad should be relegated together on a lower position, it is not rocket science really.
Depends on the type or controls of the game, sometimes in the left the primary for movement is analog, others the dpad. And for the right sometimes you're constantly moving de camera and shooting with the triggers, while in other ones you constantly use the face buttons. This is why it's a good idea to have the dpad very close to the left analog and face buttons very close to the right analog: the positions of the thumbs will be similar in both cases: a way natural and relaxed position than if you had to move down your thumbs.
 

Tygeezy

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because at some point the Steam Deck will have issues playing games at low as well.

The Witcher 3 on Switch runs at the lowest settings and goes down to below 480p30, and that's a 6 year old game that was designed with low end PCs of that time in mind.
so of course it runs on Switch, barely...

and yes, the Steam Deck will be the same. at one point, my guess is in about 4 years, new AAA games will run at like 480p30fps on this
In 4 years I’m sure there will be a newer model that I will gladly pay for.
 
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Fredrik

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In 4 years I’m sure there will be a newer model that I will gladly pay for.
Lol yeah people come up with the weirdest concerns. This thing will Not compete with Switch for the mainstream casual gamers. They don’t even know it exist. This is made for core enthusiast gamers who play on XSX, PS5 and PC and want something more powerful than Switch as a portable alternative. And upgrading to another more powerful Deck is no problem for people who would jump in day 1 on a PS5 Pro, XSX2 and 4080 in a few years.
 
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Dampf

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So are guys actually, seriously, claiming that a 10TF or so GPU will run games worse that a 1.5TF apu?

Now I have heard it all lol.

Next: Gabe cures cancer and creates sentient A.I. out of a commodore 64.

5700XT can play Metro Exodus with RT disabled… Ennhanced Edition is a new mode for the game in a stand-alone executable.

No game will be RT only in the near future and the if that happens it will be won’t run on Deck.
Yes, because the Steam Deck has the DX12 Ultimate featureset just like the next gen consoles, the 5700XT not. It's really simple and Mesh Shaders+Sampler Feedback are a huge, huge deal. Get a 8800GT and try to run a modern game on it. It won't run because the 8800GT only supports up to DX10 featureset level, and not DX11 nor DX12. The same fate is destined for the 5700XT at some point in time. Sooner or later it will happen.

Until then, we already have games that simply cannot run on the 5700XT because it lacks HW-Raytracing, like Quake 2 RTX, Minecraft RTX, Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition. All of these games are huge, huge upgrades over their original versions and you miss out if you can't play these and have to stick with the original versions. These games can probably be played on a Steam Deck (although at crazy low resolutions, but it would work)

And your post is also incorrect. We already have a confirmed title that releases without a rasterization path for their lighting solution as early as 2022. https://screenrant.com/avatar-frontiers-pandora-ray-tracing-every-version/ Software-RT for cards like the 5700XT, better quality and performance with HW-acceleration for RDNA2. Steam Deck will benefit from this, a 5700XT won't. Many developers will follow that strategy because it saves a ton of development time.

Sorry, but your 5700XT is already dead. Steam Deck has all of these cutting edge DX12U features. Inform yourself about mesh shaders and Sampler Feedback and you will get why. Raw performance is not everything, especially with this generation.

1. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is already dead on RX 5700 XT. I wouldn't be buying RX 5700 XT over RTX 2070.

2. For a 15-25 watts mobile device, I'm NOT going to purchase or advise for yet another DirectX12 Feature level 12_1 iGPU i.e. Tigerlake Xe is dead along with Cezanne 's RX Vega 8.

Xe GPus do have Sampler Feedback actually. Intel held a pretty interesting GDC conference yesterday.

With Sampler Feedback Streaming they managed to stream 350 GB worth of assets with a ridiculously small VRAM footprint of just 230 MB. The future is now. The texture space shading part of Sampler Feedback also improves performance nicely and a 3D Mark featureset will soon be available.
 
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rnlval

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Yes, because the Steam Deck has the DX12 Ultimate featureset just like the next gen consoles, the 5700XT not. It's really simple and Mesh Shaders+Sampler Feedback are a huge, huge deal. Get a 8800GT and try to run a modern game on it. It won't run because the 8800GT only supports up to DX10 featureset level, and not DX11 nor DX12. The same fate is destined for the 5700XT at some point in time. Sooner or later it will happen.

Until then, we already have games that simply cannot run on the 5700XT because it lacks HW-Raytracing, like Quake 2 RTX, Minecraft RTX, Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition. All of these games are huge, huge upgrades over their original versions and you miss out if you can't play these and have to stick with the original versions. These games can probably be played on a Steam Deck (although at crazy low resolutions, but it would work)

And your post is also incorrect. We already have a confirmed title that releases without a rasterization path for their lighting solution as early as 2022. https://screenrant.com/avatar-frontiers-pandora-ray-tracing-every-version/ Software-RT for cards like the 5700XT, better quality and performance with HW-acceleration for RDNA2. Steam Deck will benefit from this, a 5700XT won't. Many developers will follow that strategy because it saves a ton of development time.

Sorry, but your 5700XT is already dead. Steam Deck has all of these cutting edge DX12U features. Inform yourself about mesh shaders and Sampler Feedback and you will get why. Raw performance is not everything, especially with this generation.



Xe GPus do have Sampler Feedback actually. Intel held a pretty interesting GDC conference yesterday.

With Sampler Feedback Streaming they managed to stream 350 GB worth of assets with a ridiculous small VRAM footprint of just 230 MB. The future is now. The texture space shading part of Sampler Feedback also improves performance nicely and a 3D Mark featureset will soon be available.
Intel Xe doesn't have the full DX12U feature set.
Intel Xe doesn't have Tier 2 VRS
Intel Xe doesn't have Tier 1.1 RT
Intel Xe doesn't have Tier 1 Mesh Shaders.

I'm not buying Intel Tigerlake.
 

Dampf

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Intel Xe doesn't have the full DX12U feature set.
Intel Xe doesn't have Tier 2 VRS
Intel Xe doesn't have Tier 1.1 RT
Intel Xe doesn't have Tier 1 Mesh Shaders.

I'm not buying Intel Tigerlake.
That is true. You should only buy GPUs nowadays with the full DX12 Ultimate featureset.

Still, Intel Xe will probably age better than Vega iGPUs,. Not that these iGPUs are suited for gaming anyways.

RDNA2 iGPU is where the magic starts.
 
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