• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sony reportedly censoring violent depictions (in a kids game, in Japan, which has laws)

kretos

Banned
As a PS player since PS1 days, I really hope Sony fail big time this generation. They are turning into d!cks.

tenor.gif
 
Again, cut limbs in interactivee media are prohibited by Japanese *law*
How exactly are these laws applied? I went to Japan a few years ago and I saw Mortal Kombat X being sold openly. Granted, they were import copies, but shouldn't those be covered by local laws as well?
 

mortal

Gold Member
After the success of TLOU 2, Ghost of Tsushima, GOW, & Bloodborne?
X - Doubt

Edit: Oh so this specifically for a kid's game? Wish the original thread title actually stated that. Nothing to see here...
 
Last edited:

iamvin22

Industry Verified
After the success of TLOU 2, Ghost of Tsushima, GOW, & Bloodborne?
X - Doubt

Edit: Oh so this specifically for a kid's game? Wish the original thread title actually stated that. Nothing to see here...
What's wrong with actually reading the article instead of a headline?!? 🤔
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
How exactly are these laws applied? I went to Japan a few years ago and I saw Mortal Kombat X being sold openly. Granted, they were import copies, but shouldn't those be covered by local laws as well?

Import copies are not covered by the law. Only games published in Japan. You can freely import uncensored Resident Evil if you want.

Japanese legislation is loophole heaven.
 
Last edited:

sublimit

Banned
This thread is a mess and i'm blaming first the misleading thread title and secondly the how the article misses to clarify some things.

In any case what the title implies is very different to what the article says.

Edit:Ok at least the mods edited it.
 
Last edited:

TheContact

Member
Always thought dismembering was pretty cool. I enabled that console cheat when playing Jedi academy. Even in Lego Star Wars games they joke around with that since legos are meant to be taken apart. But Japan has their laws I guess. QQ pron censor
 

Blond

Banned
I don’t buy such a stance. So, Mortal Kombat just won't be on PlayStation? I don't believe that at all.
It’s a Japanese thing, many games don’t feature dismemberment. If you buy Evil Within or Nioh for instance, bodies will always remain intact.
 

MagnesG

Banned
Games rated for kids can’t have dismembered in Japan.

I’m not even sure what the OP is trying with that FUD.
Then explain why Kakarot's dismembered character is allowed while Naruto is not.
Apparently both will be a kids game by the standards.
 

01011001

Banned
Aren't dismemberments always censored in Japan? Seems like it is a Cero thing to me. Maybe Sony advised them rather than forced them, advised them because Cero wouldn't allow it for a wider audience.
I don't know how the Cero board works but some ratings boards have issues with camera angles and what not, like the stupid American MPAA.

some games release a separate Cero Z version with dismemberment. Lollipop Chainsaw for example.

other also did it through an additional DLC to get around the Cero Z rating
(which is comparable to an AO rating on the US)
 

Sakura

Member
That doesn't mean it's accurate. Developers are human and can get things wrong.

Again, cut limbs in interactivee media are prohibited by Japanese *law*
It is not prohibited by law. There is no Japanese law saying interactive media cannot have dismemberment, or feature characters missing limbs. CERO doesn't like dismemberment, but they don't have legal authority.
The problem is, if CERO refuses to give your game a rating, then most stores (and Sony's digital storefront) will not sell your game.
PC games are for the most part not rated by CERO, and have more lax restrictions.
In any case yeah, it is a CERO issue, not a Sony issue. iirc they made future Gohan have both arms in some DBZ game, because they don't like one armed characters.

Just wanted to clarify that it has nothing to do with laws, as some people are now saying it is a law thing, and it is even in the thread title.
 
Last edited:

eMPOK

Member
LOL old news is old. Japan has always, ALWAYS censored video game dismemberments. Go back to the PS2 and you'll find examples of this. Forget graphic headshots too.
 

NahaNago

Member
Violent stuff gets censored in Japan and skimpy outfits get censored in the west. This is pretty much the norm for Sony.
 
Sounds like a weird Japanese rule. He doesn't even get his arm dismembered, it's just missing. One could argue it's ableist :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Saber

Gold Member
If this is true why their channel is doing streaming and promotion of Mortal Kombat everytime? Sounds really like clickbaity to me.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
I think AC Valhalla had some issues with the JP Version being censored like that, but it turned out that it was Ubisoft playing it safe, not the Japanese regularities prohibiting it.
 
Last edited:

MagnesG

Banned
I though I was clear about kids games instead teenager games.

Kakarot: CERO B (12 and up)
Naruto: CERO A (all ages)
So SIE still decided to handhold the depiction more despite CERO already rated the game as A? I don't understand why they interfered when it's the job of ratings boards to do so.

Then again they can do whatever they want though, not the first time they did that.
 
Last edited:

Ar¢tos

Member
.
So SIE still decided handhold the depiction more despite CERO already rated the game as A? I don't understand why they interfered when it's the job of ratings boards to do so.

Then again they can do whatever they want though, not the first time they did that.
Many devs try to stay "below" the limit of what is allowed by rating boards (regardless of the ratings being a "legal suggestion", like PEGI, or mandatory implementation like CERO) because changing the game (if it gets refused or higher rating) and resubmitting takes a lot of time and is very expensive.
Then on the other hand you have platform holders concerned with what the content of each game means for the brand image. Allowing a game rated A to have a visual depiction of a dismembered limb (or lack of it) could not go well with more sensitive parents, and one angry soccer mom on social media can do a TON of damage nowadays, when Karens rule the world.
 

MagnesG

Banned
.

Many devs try to stay "below" the limit of what is allowed by rating boards (regardless of the ratings being a "legal suggestion", like PEGI, or mandatory implementation like CERO) because changing the game (if it gets refused or higher rating) and resubmitting takes a lot of time and is very expensive.
Then on the other hand you have platform holders concerned with what the content of each game means for the brand image. Allowing a game rated A to have a visual depiction of a dismembered limb (or lack of it) could not go well with more sensitive parents, and one angry soccer mom on social media can do a TON of damage nowadays, when Karens rule the world.
The game is rated T in the west, only CERO A for Japan. Also cero ratings are pretty clear about what is possible and vice versa.

Matsuyama CEO of Cyberconnect2:
Yes. Indeed, the loss of limbs in characters who appear human is prohibited by SIE and not by CERO. Even though Minato Namikaze is a corpse resurrected by an unholy reincarnation, if he looks human, he is got out.

It's clear that Sony interferes a lot, even their CERO Z game TLOUII has a little bit of censorship for example.

And then anime games in the west, old news.
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
It is not prohibited by law. There is no Japanese law saying interactive media cannot have dismemberment, or feature characters missing limbs. CERO doesn't like dismemberment, but they don't have legal authority.
The problem is, if CERO refuses to give your game a rating, then most stores (and Sony's digital storefront) will not sell your game.
PC games are for the most part not rated by CERO, and have more lax restrictions.
In any case yeah, it is a CERO issue, not a Sony issue. iirc they made future Gohan have both arms in some DBZ game, because they don't like one armed characters.

Just wanted to clarify that it has nothing to do with laws, as some people are now saying it is a law thing, and it is even in the thread title.

It's a lot more nuanced than that.

1: CERO does have legal authority. It's straight out illegal for people under 18 to purchase CERO Z games and for stores to sell them to minors. That is unlike most western rating systems that are exclusively an advisory (I believe excluding the UK, but I may be wrong about this).
2: it is not one law that results into the ban of dismemberment from interactive software, but multiple in combination, some of which are very old and don't even literally apply to games but are applied anyway, causing developers to err on the side of caution due to precedent.
3: PC games don't have more lax restrictions at all, just different ones because CERO doesn't generally apply. It's illegal in Japan to even allow access to the floor in which they sell adult-only PC Games to minors, not only to sell them. Since they have harsher sale restrictions, they have fewer content restrictions.
 
Last edited:

Keihart

Member
I would gamble this has something to do with the age at which games are targeted, as if in if you want a game rated for everyone they have some stricter guidelines than typical CERO or something.

Aynyhow, i find this weird regardless, why even bother extra regulations if you have already a rating system in place, it's just extra work for no real reason.
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
I would gamble this has something to do with the age at which games are targeted, as if in if you want a game rated for everyone they have some stricter guidelines than typical CERO or something.

Aynyhow, i find this weird regardless, why even bother extra regulations if you have already a rating system in place, it's just extra work for no real reason.

Most of the regulations that can apply here predate the institution of CERO by a long shot.
 

Sakura

Member
It's a lot more nuanced than that.

1: CERO does have legal authority. It's straight out illegal for people under 18 to purchase CERO Z games and for stores to sell them to minors. That is unlike most western rating systems that are exclusively an advisory (I believe excluding the UK, but I may be wrong about this).
2: it is not one law that results into the ban of dismemberment from interactive software, but multiple in combination, some of which are very old and don't even literally apply to games but are applied anyway, causing developers to err on the side of caution due to precedent.
3: PC games don't have more lax restrictions at all, just different ones because CERO doesn't generally apply. It's illegal in Japan to even allow access to the floor in which they sell adult-only PC Games to minors, not only to sell them. Since they have harsher sale restrictions, they have looser content restrictions.
There is dismemberment in PC games. There is no law that forbids dismemberment in games.
Why would multiple laws, some as you say being very old, apply to video games, but not any other media? Characters can have limbs chopped off in anime, but not in a game? That doesn't make any sense.
PC games do have more lax restrictions. Because CERO's restrictions do not apply. There is a reason that CERO doesn't rate adult PC games and other companies do.
Please show me these laws that somehow only apply to video games and not other media, and also not PC games. Because I don't think they exist.

edit:
Furthermore, to elaborate on CERO's legal authority, they do not have any. Some prefectures have taken it upon themselves to add penalties to retailers that sell Z rated games to minors, but that is not because CERO has any sort of legal power, simply because the prefecture in question has decided to add certain rules. Most prefectures in Japan do not actually have any penalties for selling Z rated games to minors https://www.mext.go.jp/b_menu/shingi/chukyo/chukyo0/toushin/07020115/021.htm
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

Banned
So SIE still decided to handhold the depiction more despite CERO already rated the game as A? I don't understand why they interfered when it's the job of ratings boards to do so.

Then again they can do whatever they want though, not the first time they did that.
Not just SIE... all companies in Japan do the same.
For example RE games have no decapitation in Japan (most recently RE7 but I won't enter in spoiler... another cases are RE4, Until Dawn, Resistance, etc).

There is a culture in Japan that dislike some type of violence in games... so publishers avoid them.

To understand these things you need to get back to the Japan feudal story... because decapitation there was a thing used to test samurai swords and you should let a bit of skin to not make the head get full out of the corpse.

BTW there is CERO interview.

禁止表現に該当する部分を含む海外のゲームが日本で発売される際に、表現や内容を変更されているケースが多々あります。できるだけオリジナルに近い形で遊びたい人は不満に感じているようですが、日本国内でゲームを発売するためには避けられないルールになっているということでしょうか。

CEROと業界団体が決めた「方法」であって、強制しているわけではないのでルールや規制とは違うんです。先ほども言いましたように、一般社会における倫理水準から逸脱しているものを禁止表現としています。

例えば同じレーティングでも、ある作品ではゾンビの人体欠損表現が含まれているのに、別の作品では欠損した部位が描かれないといったケースがあります。これはCEROの審査によるのではなく、ゲームメーカーの判断によるということですか。

私の立場でははっきりとしたことはお答えできません。ただ、ゲームの表現というのは多種多様になっていて、審査が難しくなっているのは間違いないですね。

Using Google Transalte:

There are many cases where the expressions and contents are changed when overseas games that include parts that correspond to prohibited expressions are released in Japan. People who want to play as close to the original as possible seem to be dissatisfied, but is it an unavoidable rule for selling games in Japan?

It is a "method" decided by CERO and industry groups, and it is not enforced, so it is different from rules and regulations. As I said earlier, prohibited expressions are those that deviate from the ethical standards of the general public.

For example, even with the same rating, there are cases where a zombie's human body defect expression is included in one work, but the missing part is not drawn in another work. Does this mean that it is not the judgment of CERO, but the judgment of the game maker?

From my point of view, I cannot answer clearly. However, there is no doubt that the expressions in the game are diverse and difficult to judge.
 
Last edited:

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
There is dismemberment in PC games. There is no law that forbids dismemberment in games.
Why would multiple laws, some as you say being very old, apply to video games, but not any other media? Characters can have limbs chopped off in anime, but not in a game? That doesn't make any sense.
PC games do have more lax restrictions. Because CERO's restrictions do not apply. There is a reason that CERO doesn't rate adult PC games and other companies do.
Please show me these laws that somehow only apply to video games and not other media, and also not PC games. Because I don't think they exist.

edit:
Furthermore, to elaborate on CERO's legal authority, they do not have any. Some prefectures have taken it upon themselves to add penalties to retailers that sell Z rated games to minors, but that is not because CERO has any sort of legal power, simply because the prefecture in question has decided to add certain rules. Most prefectures in Japan do not actually have any penalties for selling Z rated games to minors https://www.mext.go.jp/b_menu/shingi/chukyo/chukyo0/toushin/07020115/021.htm

Welcome to the murky realm of Japanese legislation, which is the same legislation that prohibits prostitution but really doesn't, and another million of quirks due to basics that often date all the way back to post World War II. Incidentally, I'm not going to spend hours looking for caveats because you don't think something exists. Feel free to believe what you want. I'll believe the several Japanese devs that all told me the same thing about this over years of conversations on the topic.
 
Last edited:

hemo memo

Gold Member
Ironic seeing that The Last of Us 2 is one of the most detailed gore games you can ever play to the insane point that the devs of the game were watching gore videos for reference.
 
Top Bottom