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Sony patents Edge Compute Proxy for PlayStation Now and 5G


"Sony has been paying a lot of focus to PlayStation Now recently they created a patent for “EDGE COMPUTE PROXY FOR CLOUD GAMING AND 5G” so basically what this patent will improve PlayStation Now servers by a lot if you had some input lag you wouldn’t have it anymore when this technology is implemented into the servers.
The description states, “A method is provided, including the following operations: executing a cloud video game in a data centre; streaming video generated by the executing cloud video game over a network to a client device; deploying a cloud gaming proxy to an edge compute that is proximate to the client device; wherein the cloud gaming proxy buffers the video and retransmits lost packets of the video to the client device.” so basically this feature will try to eliminate the buffers and all the input lag many people usually experience with cloud gaming. It will transmit the data which doesn’t show because of Input Lag and slows the game with this technology. You can expect PlayStation Now to improve in terms of servers."
 

Calverz

Member
Guys guys guys what about Microsoft?
Jeff Goldblum What GIF by The Late Late Show with James Corden
 

reksveks

Member
Sounds kinda like that negative latency technique that stadia was talking about but with more local compute servers.

I don't know if it ever going to come to light or be meaningful
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
Sounds kinda like that negative latency technique that stadia was talking about but with more local compute servers.

I don't know if it ever going to come to light or be meaningful
Not really, this is a proxy (a computer between the client and the server) and resends a video packet if it is missed by the client (negating the need to go all the way back to the datacentre). It should make for smoother video in the streaming, but will not directly have any effect on input (at least from what is stated)
 

yurinka

Member
Not sure if I understand it well, but I think that what this patent says is that instead of connecting to PS Now via your home router, now you'll be able to do it via 5G. Using the internet connection of your phone/whatever other 5G device to play PS Now not on your phone, but in your console or PC.

It's good news for those who will have good 5G coverage, a 5G connection with no data cap and a bad/slow/data capped internet connection at home. But not sure if 5G improves latency or speed over 500mb/s or faster good fiber connection and is located relatively close to the servers, because distance between the server and the client adds latency. So something great to reduce latency would be to add more servers spreading them through the areas they cover to make sure all the players have some server nearby.

On top of that, during internet communications some packets are lost (specially nearby the client due to interferences if connected via an old wifi on a busy wifi area) so they often have to be sent again making the full travel from client to server or from server to client. So this patent mentions the inclusion of an edge compute proxy in the middle of the client and server communication (typically close to the client) to act as a buffer, to make sure that if some packet is lost it doesn't have to make the full travel again, but instead only from the proxy to its destination.

Less distance travelled means less latency, so it would improve input lag a bit specially for those with shitty connections or in very busy areas. Similar to CDN/Akamai, it's like a server that acts as buffer so nearby clients who have to receive again certain packets or assets from the server can get it from there with a lower latency, while also freeing the original server because part of its work gets delegated to all these buffers spread around the world.

Are they already using Azure servers? And if they are, is it for cloud gaming or just for ps network?...
The plot thickens
I think they already moved all their PSN cloud to Azure: PS Store, PSN servers, PS Now, etc. But the functionality and feature set we as players get from PS Store, PSN, PS Now, etc. is exactly the same independently if they have their cloud on Azure, AWS, Google Cloud or another one.

What is mentioned in the OP isn't related to Azure at all, it can be implement it in AWS, Google Cloud and the other ones.
 
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reinking

Gold Member
Not sure if I understand it well, but I think that what this patent says is that instead of connecting to PS Now via your home router, now you'll be able to do it via 5G. Using the internet connection of your phone/whatever other 5G device to play PS Now not on your phone, but in your console or PC.

It's good news for those who will have good 5G coverage, a 5G connection with no data cap and a bad/slow/data capped internet connection at home. But not sure if 5G improves latency or speed over 500mb/s or faster good fiber connection and is located relatively close to the servers, because distance between the server and the client adds latency. So something great to reduce latency would be to add more servers spreading them through the areas they cover to make sure all the players have some server nearby.
The positive spin is even in the US some companies are starting to roll out 5g home internet. I know T-Mobile has already.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
Didn't Sony and some other companies start their own cloud computing environment a few weeks ago?
 

reksveks

Member
Not really, this is a proxy (a computer between the client and the server) and resends a video packet if it is missed by the client (negating the need to go all the way back to the datacentre). It should make for smoother video in the streaming, but will not directly have any effect on input (at least from what is stated)
So like a CDN but for Video Packets? My knowledge of the back-end of the internet isn't that great.
 

yurinka

Member
The positive spin is even in the US some companies are starting to roll out 5g home internet. I know T-Mobile has already.
Same here in Europe. Some people who lives in the country have 4G home internet and are starting to migrate to 5G home internet.
 

onesvenus

Member
What's interesting about this is adding the proxy to edge nodes. I recall Netflix doing something like this to improve video transmission.

Now, saying there won't be input lag anymore is crazy
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
And they plan to use this on Microsoft azure servers OP??

It's a software not a hardware, and mostly using OpenGL Server not Windows Server nor Linux Server. Azure servers and all cloud servers are using Sony ODA (Optical Disc Archive)

NETArchive-Architecture.png


Delivering the ability to safely and affordably store, secure, protect and recover your data for 100+ years, NETArchive provides a modular architecture consisting of high performance disk, cloud and Sony ODA optical tiers. With support for on-premises installations and cloud-based deployments in the Microsoft Azure and Amazon Web Services (AWS) cloud, NETArchive delivers elastic scalability with simplified, cross-platform management and unrivaled control. It delivers a flexible, robust and secure solution that can be tailored to meet the data management, business continuity and long-term retention requirements in today’s complex business and IT environments.

Sony ODA Solutions Partner - Alliance Storage Technologies


Also using Sony Intelligent Vision Sensors on the cloud:

Tokyo, Japan — Sony Corporation today announced the upcoming release of two models of intelligent vision sensors, the first image sensors in the world to be equipped with AI processing functionality.*1 Including AI processing functionality on the image sensor itself enables high-speed edge AI processing and extraction of only the necessary data, which, when using cloud services, reduces data transmission latency, addresses privacy concerns, and reduces power consumption and communication costs.


As part of the memorandum of understanding, Sony and Microsoft will also explore collaboration in the areas of semiconductors and AI. For semiconductors, this includes potential joint development of new intelligent image sensor solutions. By integrating Sony’s cutting-edge image sensors with Microsoft’s Azure AI technology in a hybrid manner across cloud and edge, as well as solutions that leverage Sony’s semiconductors and Microsoft cloud technology, the companies aim to provide enhanced capabilities for enterprise customers. In terms of AI, the parties will explore incorporation of Microsoft’s advanced AI platform and tools in Sony consumer products, to provide highly intuitive and user-friendly AI experiences.


Long story short: Sony doesn't need Azure, can use any other cloud system, Microsoft MUST use Sony hardware to compete with other cloud servers.
 
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yurinka

Member
Didn't Sony and some other companies start their own cloud computing environment a few weeks ago?
PlayStaton Now started in January 2014, and before that they already have a server cloud for PSN, which debuted in 2006.

This is just a patent update for PS Now to include 5G (also includes the same but using 4G) support combined with reverse proxies (edge compute platform) to improve PS Now image quality and input lag.

So like a CDN but for Video Packets? My knowledge of the back-end of the internet isn't that great.
Yes, it's the same than a CDN. Something between the client and the server, but relatively close to the client, that acts as a buffer. So if the client needs to get again something recently asked to the server that still remains in that buffer (in this case some audio or video packets lost), it's sent from the buffer instead of making the full travel from the server. Shorter travel means shorter latency so less input lag for the gameplay and better image quality for the video streaming.

It improves the speed and specially latency to get the videos, and also reduces server costs because the main server will need to use less CPU, memory or bandwith by not needing to send again a ton of lost packets. It also improves the maximum distance between server and client allowed to have decent game streaming.

In this case, it mentions the idea of, in case you are playing via 5G, to have the 'CDN' acting as buffer in the 5G cell towers, because 5G towers typically use fiber connection to connect with the internet servers and because most of the packet losts are between the cell tower and the client, and because the cell tower is so close to the client that its ping is tiny compared to the one between the client and the server/data center.

So if some packet gets lost and needs to be sent again it will be way faster to send it again from the cell tower than from the server. So it will improve input lag and video quality.

For mobile gaming... maybe PSNow support for mobile is coming back.

Don't really care for this either way.
Yes, Sony mentioned in a IR meeting while ago that they plan to support playing PS Now on mobile.

But what mentions this patent is another thing: to play PS Now using 4G or 5G instead of your home router (not only in your phone, it mentions "Merely by way of example without limitation, the user equipment 122 can be a personal computer, a laptop computer, a tablet, a cellular phone, a portable gaming device, a set-top box, a game console, a smart display, a streaming stick or box, or any other device capable of receiving and rendering the video of the video game for viewing by the user") and some 'server side thing' to improve the input lag and video quality on PS Now which would help both if using 5G or not.

In terms of possible inputs to play via PS Now it mentions "such as a touchscreen, joysticks, buttons, motion sensing hardware (e.g. accelerometers, gyroscopes, magnetometers, etc.), camera, microphone, etc." and later "the user may operate or interface with one or more controller devices to generate inputs for the video game. Merely by way of example without limitation, such devices can include one or more of a keyboard, mouse, touchpad, trackball, gaming controller, motion controller, joystick, buttons, trigger, camera, microphone, etc."

Later also mentions "One example of a cloud gaming system is the Playstation® Now cloud gaming system. In such a system, the client device can be a game console, such as a Playstation® 4 game console, or may be another device such as a personal computer, laptop, tablet, cell phone, mobile device, etc.".

And they plan to use this on Microsoft azure servers OP??
What is mentioned in the patent, just like anything else they already do on PS Now or PSN, can be used on Azure or any other cloud server like Google Cloud, Amazon AWS and so on. But some time ago they moved to Azure, so very likely they will impement it on Azure.
 
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reksveks

Member
Edge means that it will be happening on location or near the location & not in the cloud . Maybe using your PC or PS5/PS4 to serve PS NOW to your Phones & Tablets
Don't want to bring any of the console war energy in the thread but you did remind me of the Phil Spencer interview on one of the GiantBomb E3 where he did suggest that users would be able to rent out their xbox for streaming.
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
Edge means that it will be happening on location or near the location & not in the cloud . Maybe using your PC or PS5/PS4 to serve PS NOW to your Phones & Tablets
More likely it will be an Edge server location provided by the likes of Cisco or Akamai.
 

Bryank75

Banned
Okay and who cares? I mean, how does this make cloud gaming popular on any level?

Why are Sony spending so much on a method of gaming that is widely unpopular?

Waste of money, waste of time, waste of effort.

As a fan, all I see is a company pushing for something that gamers do not want, that PlayStation gamers do not want. Only corporate interests in mind here.
 
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ANIMAL1975

Member
PlayStaton Now started in January 2014, and before that they already have a server cloud for PSN, which debuted in 2006.

This is just a patent update for PS Now to include 5G (also includes the same but using 4G) support combined with reverse proxies (edge compute platform) to improve PS Now image quality and input lag.


Yes, it's the same than a CDN. Something between the client and the server, but relatively close to the client, that acts as a buffer. So if the client needs to get again something recently asked to the server that still remains in that buffer (in this case some audio or video packets lost), it's sent from the buffer instead of making the full travel from the server. Shorter travel means shorter latency so less input lag for the gameplay and better image quality for the video streaming.

It improves the speed and specially latency to get the videos, and also reduces server costs because the main server will need to use less CPU, memory or bandwith by not needing to send again a ton of lost packets. It also improves the maximum distance between server and client allowed to have decent game streaming.

In this case, it mentions the idea of, in case you are playing via 5G, to have the 'CDN' acting as buffer in the 5G cell towers, because 5G towers typically use fiber connection to connect with the internet servers and because most of the packet losts are between the cell tower and the client, and because the cell tower is so close to the client that its ping is tiny compared to the one between the client and the server/data center.

So if some packet gets lost and needs to be sent again it will be way faster to send it again from the cell tower than from the server. So it will improve input lag and video quality.


Yes, Sony mentioned in a IR meeting while ago that they plan to support playing PS Now on mobile.

But what mentions this patent is another thing: to play PS Now using 4G or 5G instead of your home router (not only in your phone, it mentions "Merely by way of example without limitation, the user equipment 122 can be a personal computer, a laptop computer, a tablet, a cellular phone, a portable gaming device, a set-top box, a game console, a smart display, a streaming stick or box, or any other device capable of receiving and rendering the video of the video game for viewing by the user") and some 'server side thing' to improve the input lag and video quality on PS Now which would help both if using 5G or not.

In terms of possible inputs to play via PS Now it mentions "such as a touchscreen, joysticks, buttons, motion sensing hardware (e.g. accelerometers, gyroscopes, magnetometers, etc.), camera, microphone, etc." and later "the user may operate or interface with one or more controller devices to generate inputs for the video game. Merely by way of example without limitation, such devices can include one or more of a keyboard, mouse, touchpad, trackball, gaming controller, motion controller, joystick, buttons, trigger, camera, microphone, etc."

Later also mentions "One example of a cloud gaming system is the Playstation® Now cloud gaming system. In such a system, the client device can be a game console, such as a Playstation® 4 game console, or may be another device such as a personal computer, laptop, tablet, cell phone, mobile device, etc.".


What is mentioned in the patent, just like anything else they already do on PS Now or PSN, can be used on Azure or any other cloud server like Google Cloud, Amazon AWS and so on. But some time ago they moved to Azure, so very likely they will impement it on Azure.
Where did you read that they moved to Azure? Link please.
 

yurinka

Member
Reading the patent they mention a list of posible video codecs to be used: "Examples of encoding formats include H.265/MPEG-H, H.264/MPEG-4, H.263/MPEG-4, H.262/MPEG-2, WMV, VP6/7/8/9, etc.". Let's hope it means that from now on PS Now uses H265.
Where did you read that they moved to Azure? Link please.
MS and Sony made this deal 2 years ago, so I assume it must be already implemented:
https://news.microsoft.com/2019/05/16/sony-and-microsoft-to-explore-strategic-partnership/

They mention "the two companies will explore joint development of future cloud solutions in Microsoft Azure to support their respective game and content-streaming services." and then add “Our partnership brings the power of Azure and Azure AI to Sony to deliver new gaming and entertainment experiences for customers.”

I'm lazy to find it now, but if you google it you'll find another one where Sony specifically mentions that this deal includes to migrate PSN and PS Now server clouds to Azure.

Okay and who cares? I mean, how does this make cloud gaming popular on any level?

Why are Sony spending so much on a method of gaming that is widely unpopular?

Waste of money, waste of time, waste of effort.

As a fan, all I see is a company pushing for something that gamers do not want, that PlayStation gamers do not want. Only corporate interests in mind here.
It improves the video quality and the input lag of game streaming, and supporting 5G also help to solve some other current issues game streaming has.

To invest on new technologies that have a small market right now but will be a huge, key part of the gaming market in the future is called innovation, or research and development, to position themselves as market leaders being the pioneers, and to earn money by patenting stuff that they do first and other companies will implement later.

It's dumb to think it's a waste of money, time and effort to invest in a smaller market with a huge growth potential because using that logic it would be a waste of money, time and effort to invest on next gen consoles or in new tech for games.

More likely it will be an Edge server location provided by the likes of Cisco or Akamai.
Don't want to bring any of the console war energy in the thread but you did remind me of the Phil Spencer interview on one of the GiantBomb E3 where he did suggest that users would be able to rent out their xbox for streaming.
The patent doesn't mention using the consoles for streaming.

It basically mentions that when using PS Now via 5G it would be a good idea to implement an edge compute platform/reverse proxy like CDN/Akamai/etc but optimized for PS Now game streaming in the phone towers that is using the user, or in a data center that is way closer to the user than the PS Now server.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
Reading the patent they mention a list of posible video codecs to be used: "Examples of encoding formats include H.265/MPEG-H, H.264/MPEG-4, H.263/MPEG-4, H.262/MPEG-2, WMV, VP6/7/8/9, etc.". Let's hope it means that from now on PS Now uses H265.

MS and Sony made this deal 2 years ago, so I assume it must be already implemented:
https://news.microsoft.com/2019/05/16/sony-and-microsoft-to-explore-strategic-partnership/

They mention "the two companies will explore joint development of future cloud solutions in Microsoft Azure to support their respective game and content-streaming services." and then add “Our partnership brings the power of Azure and Azure AI to Sony to deliver new gaming and entertainment experiences for customers.”

I'm lazy to find it now, but if you google it you'll find another one where Sony specifically mentions that this deal includes to migrate PSN and PS Now server clouds to Azure.


It improves the video quality and the input lag of game streaming, and supporting 5G also help to solve some other current issues game streaming has.

To invest on new technologies that have a small market right now but will be a huge, key part of the gaming market in the future is called innovation, or research and development, to position themselves as market leaders being the pioneers, and to earn money by patenting stuff that they do first and other companies will implement later.

It's dumb to think it's a waste of money, time and effort to invest in a smaller market with a huge growth potential because using that logic it would be a waste of money, time and effort to invest on next gen consoles or in new tech for games.
It will never be a big part of the industry, nobody cares about it.... do you know what people want? Hardware... PS5 and Switch are setting records. Between a PS5 and Switch you have home and mobile gaming covered with high quality games, there is no need for streaming, it only gives power to corporations and results in worse quality and consistency.

Going from a product to a service leaves customers worse off, always. Sony are good a products and are shit at services, so it's in their interest to push hardware, no streaming.

They have pumped money into advertising PSNow and couldn't even release numbers last quarter, they were so bad.....

Amazon and Google have failed already and msft is just converting Gold subs to Gamepass, it's not even primarily a streaming service.

It's a huge waste.
 

yurinka

Member
It will never be a big part of the industry, nobody cares about it.... do you know what people want? Hardware... PS5 and Switch are setting records. Between a PS5 and Switch you have home and mobile gaming covered with high quality games, there is no need for streaming, it only gives power to corporations and results in worse quality and consistency.

Going from a product to a service leaves customers worse off, always. Sony are good a products and are shit at services, so it's in their interest to push hardware, no streaming.

They have pumped money into advertising PSNow and couldn't even release numbers last quarter, they were so bad.....

Amazon and Google have failed already and msft is just converting Gold subs to Gamepass, it's not even primarily a streaming service.

It's a huge waste.
Back in the time some close minded gamers said the same about mobile gaming. Now mobile gaming is a way bigger market in both userbase and revenue than console gaming.
Same happened with the same with polygon based 3D visuals vs 2D pixel art, now most games have 3D visuals.
Same happened with CD games vs cartridges, and most retail games are now sold on discs.
Same happened with analog vs dpad on consoles, now most games use dual analog as main control method on consoles.
Same happened with the first 8 bit consoles becoming mainstream, some gamers weren't accepting them because they wanted to continue with 8 bit computers and arcades, but consoles basically ended replacing both.
Same happened with digital vs retail games, now most sold and played games are digital.
Same happened with F2P vs paid games, now F2P games have more players and generate more revenue than paid games.
Same happened with DLC and microtractions.
The same will happen with game streaming.

Game streaming will still need several years to become mainstream because for many people there are still several tech limitations to use it and between those who use it, to do it on an optimal quality. And on top of that they still have to improve their catalog and business model to find a win/win balance that appeals both the player, the platform holder and the game publisher/dev. Local/offline gaming will always exist, but game streaming is going to play a big role in the gaming market at the end of this generation and specially in the next one or beyond.

You have no idea if Google, Amazon or Microsoft failed or not because they don't provide numbers, and because they are just starting this long term race and it would be so dumb to expect them to see huge numbers since the start. They are just starting to build their technology, a catalog and a starting userbase of early adopters, while improving their stuff in all areas until it reaches a point where it can be scaled up to a mainstream global audience. All new markets and technologies need an early period to mature both the technology, its business model/entry point and the userbase/market perception.

A couple of years ago, when Sony already was using game streaming for 4 years decided that they were going to start scaling it up this generation after several next gen technology improvements on both the client and server sides, business model changes, catalog improvement and a to expand the amount of devices where can be used and supported countries. This patent is just one of many steps needed for that plan.

It doesn't mean they will stop supporting their hardware or will invest less on games for that console. They will continue shipping consoles at gaming history record breaking pace, will continue selling games at a gaming history record breaking pace, and will continue making more money at a gaming history record breaking pace mostly due to 3rd party games sold for their consoles. They will continue working on PSVR2, PS5 hardware revisions and PS6. Their 1st party gamedev teams will grow (to invest over $183M in this year here basically means they approxmatedly plan to basically double their headcount) and they also have a ton of 2nd party (invested on it over $300M from April to December and improved how they will handle them globally) plus a ton of both AAA and indie 3rd party exclusives of all types (full, timed, console, crossgen or not...), resulting on PS5 getting more exclusives than they ever had on their consoles.

I think game streaming will continue being something something secondary specially during the following years, but will have an important role in the future even if it won't fully replace offline gaming. In the same way we still have computer and console games, games on cartridges, dpads, physical games 2D pixel art games and paid games without DLC or microtransactions.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
Back in the time some close minded gamers said the same about mobile gaming. Now mobile gaming is a way bigger market in both userbase and revenue than console gaming.
Same happened with the same with polygon based 3D visuals vs 2D pixel art, now most games have 3D visuals.
Same happened with CD games vs cartridges, and most retail games are now sold on discs.
Same happened with analog vs dpad on consoles, now most games use dual analog as main control method on consoles.
Same happened with the first 8 bit consoles becoming mainstream, some gamers weren't accepting them because they wanted to continue with 8 bit computers and arcades, but consoles basically ended replacing both.
Same happened with digital vs retail games, now most sold and played games are digital.
Same happened with F2P vs paid games, now F2P games have more players and generate more revenue than paid games.
Same happened with DLC and microtractions.
The same will happen with game streaming.

Game streaming will still need several years to become mainstream because for many people there are still several tech limitations to use it and between those who use it, to do it on an optimal quality. And on top of that they still have to improve their catalog and business model to find a win/win balance that appeals both the player, the platform holder and the game publisher/dev. Local/offline gaming will always exist, but game streaming is going to play a big role in the gaming market at the end of this generation and specially in the next one or beyond.

You have no idea if Google, Amazon or Microsoft failed or not because they don't provide numbers, and because they are just starting this long term race and it would be so dumb to expect them to see huge numbers since the start. They are just starting to build their technology, a catalog and a starting userbase of early adopters, while improving their stuff in all areas until it reaches a point where it can be scaled up to a mainstream global audience. All new markets and technologies need an early period to mature both the technology, its business model/entry point and the userbase/market perception.

A couple of years ago, when Sony already was using game streaming for 4 years decided that they were going to start scaling it up this generation after several next gen technology improvements on both the client and server sides, business model changes, catalog improvement and a to expand the amount of devices where can be used and supported countries. This patent is just one of many steps needed for that plan.

It doesn't mean they will stop supporting their hardware or will invest less on games for that console. They will continue shipping consoles at gaming history record breaking pace, will continue selling games at a gaming history record breaking pace, and will continue making more money at a gaming history record breaking pace mostly due to 3rd party games sold for their consoles. They will continue working on PSVR2, PS5 hardware revisions and PS6. Their 1st party gamedev teams will grow (to invest over $183M in this year here basically means they approxmatedly plan to basically double their headcount) and they also have a ton of 2nd party (invested on it over $300M from April to December and improved how they will handle them globally) plus a ton of both AAA and indie 3rd party exclusives of all types (full, timed, console, crossgen or not...), resulting on PS5 getting more exclusives than they ever had on their consoles.

I think game streaming will continue being something something secondary specially during the following years, but will have an important role in the future even if it won't fully replace offline gaming. In the same way we still have computer and console games, games on cartridges, dpads, physical games 2D pixel art games and paid games without DLC or microtransactions.

Mobile was meant to subsume the console market....

Most of the examples you mentioned were introduced and adopted easily because the benefits were easily seen... like analog and cd. Also these are hardware improvements, not a tradeoff for the end consumer...sacrificing their rights for some abstracts notion of 'accessibility'..... actually owning your hardware gives better accessibility because you fully control it.

If streaming was succeeding in any way, the numbers would be published, that his how we know the numbers are pathetic. This is more akin to the speculation surrounding Zynga games and the attempted bundling of Kinect (because it was the future).
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
It will never be a big part of the industry, nobody cares about it.... do you know what people want? Hardware... PS5 and Switch are setting records. Between a PS5 and Switch you have home and mobile gaming covered with high quality games, there is no need for streaming, it only gives power to corporations and results in worse quality and consistency.

Going from a product to a service leaves customers worse off, always. Sony are good a products and are shit at services, so it's in their interest to push hardware, no streaming.

They have pumped money into advertising PSNow and couldn't even release numbers last quarter, they were so bad.....

Amazon and Google have failed already and msft is just converting Gold subs to Gamepass, it's not even primarily a streaming service.

It's a huge waste.
Mate im all hardware too _ the excitement that a new generation brings with all its new shinning tech and nerd talk mambo jambo. But, either we like it or not, game streaming and virtual reality is the future of our beloved hobby. I mean,... You haven't seen Ready Player One yet?!!!
 

reksveks

Member
The patent doesn't mention using the consoles for streaming.

It basically mentions that when using PS Now via 5G it would be a good idea to implement an edge compute platform/reverse proxy like CDN/Akamai/etc but optimized for PS Now game streaming in the phone towers that is using the user, or in a data center that is way closer to the user than the PS Now server.
Wasn't referring to the patent but to the comment. I suspect that Sony are going to a typically cdn like service provider as well. I would be interested in seeing them and Microsoft tested a more p2p method like Microsoft do for windows downloads.
 
It seems even Sony knows the near future is going to be a streaming one, regardless of what the naysayers believe. If this is the case, their competitor Microsoft has a built-in advantage that neither Nintendo nor Sony can ever match.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
Mate im all hardware too _ the excitement that a new generation brings with all its new shinning tech and nerd talk mambo jambo. But, either we like it or not, game streaming and virtual reality is the future of our beloved hobby. I mean,... You haven't seen Ready Player One yet?!!!

VR has possibility but again, the adoption rates are not high. I mean can we just look at what is successful.... and that is hardware. Streaming has been tried numerous times, and I am sure they will keep on trying but incremental improvements are not suddenly going to make it popular...

It's not 'cool' and I don't think anything could ever make it 'cool'.
 
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Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
It seems even Sony knows the near future is going to be a streaming one, regardless of what the naysayers believe. If this is the case, their competitor Microsoft has a built-in advantage that neither Nintendo nor Sony can ever match.
Maybe in one respect, but on the other hand Nintendo and Sony have a built in advantage of quality content and fanbase that is hard to match.

It's easier to put together the tech for streaming than it is to continually develop quality content. In time the streaming tech will be democratised and content will be king (as it always is)
 
Maybe in one respect, but on the other hand Nintendo and Sony have a built in advantage of quality content and fanbase that is hard to match.

It's easier to put together the tech for streaming than it is to continually develop quality content. In time the streaming tech will be democratised and content will be king (as it always is)
Sony's most prolific development teams push out games every 3-4 years. I don't think that is a fast enough time frame to justify building a streaming service for. That's the reason Microsoft has acquired/purchased/created so many studios over the past 3 years.
 

yurinka

Member
Mobile was meant to subsume the console market....

Most of the examples you mentioned were introduced and adopted easily because the benefits were easily seen... like analog and cd. Also these are hardware improvements, not a tradeoff for the end consumer...sacrificing their rights for some abstracts notion of 'accessibility'..... actually owning your hardware gives better accessibility because you fully control it.

If streaming was succeeding in any way, the numbers would be published, that his how we know the numbers are pathetic. This is more akin to the speculation surrounding Zynga games and the attempted bundling of Kinect (because it was the future).
Streaming doesn't imply sacrificing rights. In the Sony IR meeting of a couple of years ago where they were mentioning future next gen plans for PS Now they hinted something similar to what Stadia does: in addition to rent games on a subscription, or to buy physical or digital games to play offline, to buy games to stream them.

So people even without a console would be able to purchase (any game from the PSN store?) to play them via streaming on any device and who knows if maybe even to play via streaming all your already purchased PSN library (if you pay the subscription?), pretty likely including the games not included in the game renting service, like all future game releases since day one and the old games that aren't included in the game renting service.

Things like analog game controllers, games in CD, polygon based 3D visuals existed since the early '80s or even before. The first PlayStation made them mainstream selling over 100M consoles, way more than any console sold before. A generation after and beyond people still prefered dpad for some 2d games, missed the no loading times of cartridges or to have more 2D sprite based games instead of all that polygon based 3d games and so on.

Zynga has been a very successful company that made a ton of money on browser games first and mobile later during many years, I have no idea of what they have been doing recently. Kinect was just Microsoft's improved version of Eyetoy. It was successful and sold several milion of units, and had its role as another -early- step in the history of motion controls which is key for the future of VR gaming. In Sony's side, they had Eyetoy, later Move controller and later PSVR and soon PSVR2.

Motion controls also were rejected by many hardcore gamers of the time, even if Wii was very successful thanks to them (~100M consoles sold) and that they will be key in the future of VR, which also has been rejected by many hardcore gamers but will be important in the future (but again, I think it will end being big but won't replace playing on a 2D display either if it's a tv/pc display or projection).

So now we believe in the power of the cloud?
Game streaming is something real, that already works in the market. This patent is about improving it with a couple of real, already existing technologies available in the market.

Not the same than the magic, unrealistic promises MS made about improving the game visuals of local games with the power of the cloud.

It seems even Sony knows the near future is going to be a streaming one, regardless of what the naysayers believe. If this is the case, their competitor Microsoft has a built-in advantage that neither Nintendo nor Sony can ever match.
Not sure if you are aware, but Sony has been offering game streaming since 2014. PS Now has a way bigger catalog than xCloud, works in consoles, its PC version isn't a beta and their streaming service has better input lag and image quality than xCould, and Sony has more subscribers and generates more revenue from its game subscriptions than MS (that includes PS Plus and Gold, we don't have all the split numbers to compare). And we don't know how many people has Xbox Game Pass Ultimate/xCloud, but it's possible that right now PS Now may have more users than xCloud.

On top of that, both Sony and Nintendo dominate MS regarding making money from their gaming division, having more users, selling consoles or selling games. Which are the present and also will be the future.

MS is the 3rd in the race and will continue being it for at least several years.
 
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kyoji

Member
Sony's most prolific development teams push out games every 3-4 years. I don't think that is a fast enough time frame to justify building a streaming service for. That's the reason Microsoft has acquired/purchased/created so many studios over the past 3 years.
and yet only 1 of the 2 have consistently put out 1st party content.... but to your point yes thats why MS has bought up more studios in which case it still has not helped them yet so your point is pretty mute. The addition of bethseda isnt going to help much either, these guys arent known for pushing out games very fast, but everything they have in development right now will be a upgrade to ms current offerings/output. Sony is not new to streaming services, cant fault them for continuing to look for ways to upgrade.
 

bitbydeath

Member
It seems even Sony knows the near future is going to be a streaming one, regardless of what the naysayers believe. If this is the case, their competitor Microsoft has a built-in advantage that neither Nintendo nor Sony can ever match.
Sony made that PS9 commercial back in 1999.
 
and yet only 1 of the 2 have consistently put out 1st party content.... but to your point yes thats why MS has bought up more studios in which case it still has not helped them yet so your point is pretty mute. The addition of bethseda isnt going to help much either, these guys arent known for pushing out games very fast, but everything they have in development right now will be a upgrade to ms current offerings/output. Sony is not new to streaming services, cant fault them for continuing to look for ways to upgrade.
It wasn't just Bethesda they acquired through the Zenimax media deal, it was also MachineGames, id Software, Arkane Studios, Tango Gameworks, and Zenimax Online Studio. This acquisition alone will produce at least 5 to 6 exclusive games within the next 3 years.
 
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Calverz

Member
C
It's a software not a hardware, and mostly using OpenGL Server not Windows Server nor Linux Server. Azure servers and all cloud servers are using Sony ODA (Optical Disc Archive)

NETArchive-Architecture.png


Delivering the ability to safely and affordably store, secure, protect and recover your data for 100+ years, NETArchive provides a modular architecture consisting of high performance disk, cloud and Sony ODA optical tiers. With support for on-premises installations and cloud-based deployments in the Microsoft Azure and Amazon Web Services (AWS) cloud, NETArchive delivers elastic scalability with simplified, cross-platform management and unrivaled control. It delivers a flexible, robust and secure solution that can be tailored to meet the data management, business continuity and long-term retention requirements in today’s complex business and IT environments.

Sony ODA Solutions Partner - Alliance Storage Technologies


Also using Sony Intelligent Vision Sensors on the cloud:

Tokyo, Japan — Sony Corporation today announced the upcoming release of two models of intelligent vision sensors, the first image sensors in the world to be equipped with AI processing functionality.*1 Including AI processing functionality on the image sensor itself enables high-speed edge AI processing and extraction of only the necessary data, which, when using cloud services, reduces data transmission latency, addresses privacy concerns, and reduces power consumption and communication costs.


As part of the memorandum of understanding, Sony and Microsoft will also explore collaboration in the areas of semiconductors and AI. For semiconductors, this includes potential joint development of new intelligent image sensor solutions. By integrating Sony’s cutting-edge image sensors with Microsoft’s Azure AI technology in a hybrid manner across cloud and edge, as well as solutions that leverage Sony’s semiconductors and Microsoft cloud technology, the companies aim to provide enhanced capabilities for enterprise customers. In terms of AI, the parties will explore incorporation of Microsoft’s advanced AI platform and tools in Sony consumer products, to provide highly intuitive and user-friendly AI experiences.


Long story short: Sony doesn't need Azure, can use any other cloud system, Microsoft MUST use Sony hardware to compete with other cloud servers.
Thats certainly one take on it. It’s a collaboration between the two using Microsoft azure as the basis for the new technologies. Sure Sony could have gone elsewhere but they went with Microsoft. Therefore I’d fully expect Microsoft to benefit from this too.
 

TonyK

Member
Each step towards streaming gaming is a step closer to a irreversible downgrade in IQ. Until they can provide 4k HDR 60fps with no visible compression and no added input lag, I don't want to know anything about something that implies a step back from improving IQ.
 

Dream-Knife

Banned
It will never be a big part of the industry, nobody cares about it.... do you know what people want? Hardware... PS5 and Switch are setting records. Between a PS5 and Switch you have home and mobile gaming covered with high quality games, there is no need for streaming, it only gives power to corporations and results in worse quality and consistency.

Going from a product to a service leaves customers worse off, always. Sony are good a products and are shit at services, so it's in their interest to push hardware, no streaming.

They have pumped money into advertising PSNow and couldn't even release numbers last quarter, they were so bad.....

Amazon and Google have failed already and msft is just converting Gold subs to Gamepass, it's not even primarily a streaming service.

It's a huge waste.
I think you're missing the point where corporations only care about money. Sony is no different.

If they can get you subscribing to stuff for $15 a month while owning nothing, they would prefer that.
 

Bryank75

Banned
I think you're missing the point where corporations only care about money. Sony is no different.

If they can get you subscribing to stuff for $15 a month while owning nothing, they would prefer that.

They will lose customers... I will not be gaming on cloud bullshit.

They think they have people by the balls but people are a lot smarter than they give them credit for.
 
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