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(SONY/MICROSOFT Hardware & Services) We WILL Get Mid-Gen Refreshes, But Not What You Might Think...

What type of mid-gen refreshes do you think we'll get this time (select all that apply)?

  • Pro-level models

    Votes: 137 46.8%
  • Slim models

    Votes: 166 56.7%
  • Service-orientated expansions and launches

    Votes: 30 10.2%
  • Nothing; same PS5/XSS/XSX hardware all gen

    Votes: 37 12.6%

  • Total voters
    293
  • Poll closed .
So amid all the news about further chip and even wafer shortages coming about, combined with continued scarcity for the current 9th-generation systems (mainly PS5 and XSX), I've been reconsidering what mid-gen refresh options Microsoft & Sony take this gen. Any equivalent to a PS4 Pro or One X for this crop of consoles is, IMO, not only overkill but impossible. Not because more performance can't be had, but because we're already getting near 2 years for this generation and have yet to see a lot of 9th-gen only software from even 1P devs, let alone 3P. The other issue being that, again, demand for the current 9th-gen systems is nowhere near saturated, and these companies would want to maximize revenue and profit off current system designs before fracturing what few chip and wafer resources they can muster among a new spec'd SKU in their product line.

For those reasons, I don't think power-centric refresh upgrades are in the cards this generation. However, I do think mid-gen refreshes are coming, and will be tailored for each company's business model. In short, I think the mid-gen refreshes will keep the same baseline specs of the current systems (relatively same TF, pixel fillrate, texture fillrate, culling & triangle rasterization, IPC, RAM capacity, bandwidth etc.), BUT will move to smaller node sizes (5nm most likely for most components on the APU) and update for RDNA 3 or RDNA 4 GPU feature support, including dedicated RT, image upscaling and machine-learning hardware based on those designs.

This is the real key for unlocking extra performance for the consoles as the generation goes on, without increasing chip size (meaning lower wafer silicon costs per unit), RAM capacities or bandwidth (saves on costs and heat/cooling), hard storage capacities (decompression I/O can be improved to make better use of same physical capacity amounts), etc. Part of this will also come from adding in a small block of Infinity Cache, and then having these new revisions phase out the original PS5 and Series X units from the distribution chains, while maintaining their original MSRPs.

However, that is only part of what the mid-gen refreshes will bring: there WILL most likely also be new devices from both Sony and Microsoft in this, but aiming at different market segments. So, here's what I think could happen:


[SONY]

>PROJECT SPARTACUS:
>Not hardware; basically a revised subscription service merging PS+ and PS Now​
into a singular package, with tiers of support​
>Higher tiers will offer streaming of select PS1/2/3/Vita/PSP/PS4 games,​
many with extended QoL features (trophies, shader filters, save state support,​
network play). Highest tier will offer bundled subscription perks of Crunchy​
roll/Funimation and certain Sony Pictures content​
>Higher tiers will also bundle in region-based football & baseball (United States),​
soccer (Latin America, Europe) sports season games through deals with deals​
through providers like ESPN, etc.​
>Game demos for select 1P and 3P releases in 1-hour or 2-hour blocks, save progress​
transferrable to full release once purchased​
>While not specifically tied to Project Spartacus, planned rollout of a unified​
PS1/2/3/PSP/Vita emulator package that can run natively on PS5 and allow native​
BC of retro games, including those not offered through streaming side. Feature​
to debut sometime in late 2023. Will be provided at highest subscription tier as​
a streaming client with a small local package to facilitate reading of game​
disc data on local system then processed through cloud and output streamed to​
client system device. Will also be provided as a native full downloadable package​
without need for subscription, for $99 MSRP. Games sold separately.​
>Monthly free games for higher-tiered members​
>Planned future features will also include Day 1 PS5 releases through a fixed,​
contract-based per-game payment plan ranging from between $3/MO to $7/MO,​
only requirement being users must have games on the plan that have not been​
paid off verify status online through a monthly check-in system (also used​
in order to request next installment payment) and virtual tickets for theatrical​
Sony Pictures new releases available Day 1 via streaming​
>Day 1 1P releases fixed contract system: H1 2023. Exclusive to PS5​
versions of 1P games (later implementation on PC side in a few years)​
>Subscription Tiers:​
>Tier 1: $4.99/MO. Includes online multiplayer and limited access to​
streaming game catalogue (PS1/2/3/4/5/PSP/Vita) only. Limited QoL features​
for pre-PS4 streamed games (no trophies/shaders/network play). Only one free​
monthly game (single choice, single game offering), limited to PS4 and​
smaller PS5 games only​
>All PS+ or PS Now subscribers (but not both) will be converted​
to Tier 1 automatically​
>Tier 2: $7.99/MO. Includes online multiplayer and larger access to​
streaming game catalogue (all systems). Includes expanded QoL features​
for pre-PS4 streamed games (shaders and trophies included). One free​
game per month, but choice selection expanded to 2 offered titles. Includes​
1-hour/2-hour game demos for select 1P & 3P games​
>Subscribers with both PS+ and PS Now will be automatically​
converted to the Tier 2 status​
>Tier 3: $9.99/MO. Includes online multiplayer and full access to streaming​
catalogue (all systems). Includes expanded QoL features for pre-PS4​
streamed games (network play added). One free game per month, with choice​
selection expanded to 3 offered titles. Includes 1-hour/2-hour game demos​
for select 1P & 3P games. Limited access to Crunchyroll/Funimation content​
also included​
>Tier 4: $14.99/MO. Includes online multiplayer and full access to streaming​
catalogue (all systems). Includes all QoL features for pre-PS4 streamed games.​
One free game per month, with choice selection of 3 offered titles. Includes​
1-hour/2-hour game demos for select 1P & 3P games. Included bundled subscription​
to Funimation/Crunchyroll and rotating selection of Sony Pictures, Sony Television​
and Sony Music content as well as regional sports game streaming packages​
(basketball, football, soccer, tennis etc.) depending on region. Includes​
cloud & client emulation package for play of pre-PS4 games not available in the​
marketplace (client must have original disc)​
>Year-round offerings for Tier 1 and Tier 2 subscriptions will be offered at select​
retailers as card purchases. However, Tier 3 will have such restricted to 6-month​
cards, and Tier 4 as 3-month cards only.​
>All main features will eventually be finalized within a 2-3 year window with​
Project Spartacus getting a version for PC including a full storefront, launcher​
and various perks in two models (Free and Licensed), in H2 2025​

>LAUNCH: Fall 2022

------------------


>PS5 Model 2:

>Mid-gen refresh and slimline version of PS5​
>Reduced-cost redesign of base PS5 system​
>6nm (CPU)/5nm (GPU) process​
>Same performance profile of original PS5 (2.3 GHz GPU, similar SSD I/O,​
etc.) but on improved/mature N6/N5 process to help noticeably lower power​
consumption and generated heat, helping to reduce package size​

>GPU is comprised of 1 GCD with 2 SEs, 2 SAs (per SE), 3 WGPs (per SA), 8 SIMD​
units (WGP), and 32 ALUs (per SIMD unit), for 3072 shader cores​
>13.7 TF performance​
>64 ROPs (142.7 Gpixels/sec pixel fillrate)​
>144 TMUs (321 Gtexels/sec texture fillrate)​
>Remains Zen 2-based but higher-clocked (8C/16T, 3.7 GHz)​
>RDNA 4 GPU architecture with hardware-accelerated RT and dedicated​
ML cores​
>48 MB of L3$ Infinity Cache for GPU​
>16 GB of GDDR7 as 8x 2 GB modules, 14 Gbps bandwidth, for effective​
bandwidth of 448 GB/s (same as original PS5)​
*GDDR7 brings lower power consumption compared to GDDR6​
>Utilizes redesigned/improved merged ASIC for SSD I/O​
>Utilizes redesigned SSD subsystem; no soldered NAND on device as internal​
storage is now a more standard M.2 drive form factor (designed by Sony),​
bandwidth of 8 GB/s with support for drives of up to 16 GB/s. Hardware​
decompression ratio is same as original PS5 (4:1) and hardware limit​
also remains same (22 GB/s)​
>Storage capacity reduced to 512 GB M.2 drive​
>Digital and Disc support​
>Will wholly replace PS5 Digital & PS5 Disc (both will cease production​
by early 2024)​
>Also features microSD card slot, USH-II SDXC support of up to 312 MB/s​
with decompression support by the SSD I/O. Up to 1 TB capacity support​
>MSRP: $449
>RELEASE: Early Spring (March) 2024

------


>PS.FOLD:

>Portable gaming device with ability to play PS4 games natively​
(docked or portable, plugged & unplugged), streamed PS4 Pro games​
(docked or portable, plugged & unplugged), and stream PS5 games​
(docked or portable, plugged & unplugged)​
>Screen measures 7" diagonal, 425 nits of brightness. Anti-glare​
glass finish, touch-enabled​
>Targeted as the low-cost entry point into PlayStation ecosystem​
>Will allow for continued production of PS4 games with easy upgradability​
options to PS5. Boon for smaller dev houses working on smaller budgets​
and less resources, as well as Japanese market
>6nm process​
>Uses a reduced-set Zen 2-based, 8C/8T CPU that can run at PS4 and PS4 Pro​
CPU clockrates​
>Uses an 18 CU GPU design scoped to match the CU design of the PS4 base,​
meaning a GPU that despite being 18 CUs (same as PS4), is almost 65%​
smaller in size. In spite of this, the GPU supports the RDNA 4 featureset​
including many of the features of PS5 M2's custom variant (outside of​
some things such as cache scrubbers)​
>Supported GPU clock rates are 800 MHz (PS4) and 911 MHz (PS4 Pro)​
>8 GB GDDR7 as 4x 2 GB 11 Gbps modules providing 176 GB/s of bandwidth.​
>256 GB microSD at UHS-II interface speeds, 150 MB/s read bandwidth.​
Supports up to 1 TB, 256 MB/s microSD SDXC​
>1x USB Type-C port; can be used for wired PS4/PS5 controllers or​
to charge the unit​
>HDMI 2.1 Out port on dock for television passthrough signal​
>Supports VRR​
>Docking unit is optional (required for higher clock mode); $99 MSRP​
>Includes additional USB ports and ethernet port​
>MSRP: $299 (PS.Fold only), $399 (PS.Fold & Docking Unit)​
>RELEASE: Fall 2024

=======


[MICROSOFT]

>GAMEPASS TV


>xCloud-powered streaming app for embedded smart TVs to bring GamePass​
access to television devices without need of a console, PC, or media box​
>Universal account access allows GamePass members on console and PC to​
sync smart TV app settings with their other devices and share library​
access with the smart TV device​
>Smart TVs with Picture-in-Picture (PiP) will have the feature leveraged​
through optional capabilities of GamePass TV to seamlessly switch back​
and forth between GamePass titles and television viewing, including​
the ability to do both simultaneously and, depending on television model​
and standards support, adjust audio streams by feed and towards any​
mixture of speaker modules in audio home sound system setup​
>App is included free in compatible smart TVs, and can be downloaded &​
installed on other compatible smart TV devices. First-time subscribers​
get 3 months free​
>Certain additional features will include players being able to view​
saved recordings of other players, being able to access games from​
local Series S, X and PC systems to stream through their TV via the​
GamePass TV app, and more​
>GamePass TV will also correspond timing-wise with Microsoft's push​
for more trans-media content based on 1P gaming properties (Halo,​
Sea of Thieves, Killer Instinct etc.), done in collaboration with​
various production studios. Pseudo-interactive elements will be​
produced for some of these leveraging the interactive features of​
gaming platforms and such features will be exclusively tied to​
the Xbox Series of devices, PC, and mobile​
>GamePass TV will also correspond with an expanded push for mobile-​
friendly gaming content utilizing 1P properties created in partnership​
with 3P development studios (and provided for native & cloud streaming​
on Series C, S, X, UV, 5ive, & PC; cloud-only for mobile devices), and​
porting more mobile games to Xbox, specifically for native Series C​
and GamePass TV​
>Further capabilities of GamePass TV will be in hosting shared local &​
cloud singular unified segmented gaming sessions for households with​
multiple GamePass-compatible devices. For example, games may have​
features that can stream different parts of the game world across​
multiple television devices where all streamed graphics, audio and logic​
are synced through the cloud, and where any mixture of the feeds can​
also come from hardware such as an Xbox Series console or PC. Built-in​
Bluetooth abilities alongside user-provided cloud-processed positional​
detection and/or leveraging of proximity ASIC hardware in paired devices​
in the local home network can provide immersive location-based feedback​
for different types of game design, depending on the game​
>Subscription rates of either $9.99/MO or $14.99/MO; Group, Party (single-​
night one-time payment access for large gatherings) and Family subscription​
plans will also be provided, as well as options which provide free controllers.​
These new plans/tiers will also be provided for GamePass as a whole​

>LAUNCH: Fall 2022

----------------


>SERIES C (COMPANION)

>6nm process​
>Zen 2 & RDNA 2-based​
>4c/8t mobile Zen 2 processor clocked at 1.2 GHz​
>10 RDNA 2 CUs clocked at 1 GHz, providing 1.28 TF of performance​
>Also supports a Performance Mode option setting the GPU clock​
at 1.565 GHz, for 2 TF​
>24 ROPs (24 Gpixels/s - 37.56 Gpixels/s pixel fillrate)​
>60 TMUs (60 Gtexels/s - 93.9 Gtexels/s texture fillrate)​
>Miniature, small footprint mobile box for GamePass streaming via xCloud​
-NOT a streaming stick; footprint closer in size to an Apple TV​
>Connects to any compatible display device (or other devices such as​
computers and laptops) via USB Type-C, provides both data transmission​
and charging​
>Can also connect to smart TV devices via Wifi, with built-in support for​
Wifi 6E. Features built-in ethernet port​
>Allows for viewing of live television content;, when configured as an​
access point from a main PC or Xbox Series console, can locally stream​
4K video content and games​
>PiP feature of GamePass TV works with Series C as well, whether​
television has built-in PiP or not​
>Features support for all GamePass TV capabilities​
>2x USB Gen 4 2x2 (2.4 GB/s) Type-C port (power supply, wired data transfer​
(optional)), 1x USB Gen 3 Type-A port​
>While primarily a GamePass xcloud streaming machine, also comes​
with built-in apps for Netflix, Youtube, Disney+, HBO Max, Hulu, & Peacock​
>Features 128 GB internal storage via an upgradable 120 MB/s USH-II SDXC​
microSD card, & additional 8 GB of onboard soldered NAND for OS and​
update file packages (non-replaceable/non-accessible by user). Internal​
storage is replaceable, supports up to 1 TB microSD SDXC cards of up to 240​
MB/s bandwidths​
>Streaming bitrate options can be set on the device for those with more​
strict data plans; streaming bitrate options can be set for each individual​
profile, across system itself and profile settings can be shared among​
the device and other devices supporting GamePass that the user has their​
account registered with. Other options include being able to set​
active online network access times by either time or bandwidth for different​
networks across each shared account (these features will also be implemented​
out to existing Xbox platforms like the Series S and Series X as well)​
>4 GB of GDDR6 memory as 2x 12 Gbps modules providing 96 GB/s effective bandwidth​
>Comes with either universal remote & Xbox Series controller​
>MSRP: $149
>RELEASE: Fall 2023

--------------

>SERIES UV


>5nm process for CPU & GPU​
>Slimmed-down, digital-only replacement for Series S, phases out Series S​
(Series C factors as replacement for Series S)​
>Series S reduced to $249 in late 2023 as Series UV​
"takes its place" in the pricing structure. In H1 2024,​
Series S ceases manufacturing, last units in distribution​
will reduced to $199​
>Series S will also move to 6nm node*, but retain Zen 2/RDNA 2​
specifications and original storage I/O design, in a smaller​
package​
*late 2022​
>Custom RDNA 4​
>Zen 2 CPU; 8c/16t @ 3.6 GHz (same as Series S's clock)​
>Uses introduction of AMD's Neural Engine, an ASIC block nested alongside​
the CPU cores (and sharing the scheduler) aimed at accelerating ML tasks.​
One is within the GPU​
>GPU is comprised of 1 GCD, with 1 SE, 2 SAs, 3 WGPs (per SA), 8 SIMD units​
(per WGP), and 32 ALUs (per SIMD unit), giving 1,536 shader cores​
>1.565 GHz GPU clock for 4.8 TF​
>4 Prim units (2 geo cul/1 tri rast each)​
>32 ROPs (effective pixel fillrate of 50 Gpixels/S)​
*24 ROPs per SE​
>80 TMUs (effective texel fillrate of 125.2 Gtexels/S)​
*80 TMUs per SE​
[GPU CACHES]
>L0$: 32 KB per WGP (4 KB per SIMD32) (320 KB total)​
>L1$: 128 KB per WGP (1.28 MB total)​
>L2$: 768 KB per Array (1.5 MB per SE, 1.5 MB total)​
>L3$: 2 MB per Engine (2 MB total)​
>L4$: 4 MB per GCD (4 MB total)​
>64 MB of Infinity Cache for alleviating cache misses and easing access​
on main system memory​
>12.52 billion geometry culling rate​
>6.26 billion triangle rasterization rate​
>10 GB of 14 Gbps GDDR7 providing 280 GB/s bandwidth as 5x 2 GB modules​
(2 GB (56 GB/s) for CPU * audio, 8 GB (224 GB/s) for GPU)​
>Integrated support for CF Express, primarily as BC for Series expansion cards​
>Now features internal support for M.2 SSD drives; includes default 512 GB​
capacity NVMe 2.0, PCIe Gen 5.0 x4 M.2 drive of 2.4 GB/s bandwidth. Supports​
drives up to 8 TB capacity, 8 GB/s bandwidths​
>Both the M.2 drive and any CF Express expansion card are supported by the​
decompression block, which is now designed to support 3:1 decompression​
ratio, with a hardware limit of 16 GB/s. However, this is now served by​
two parallel units designed as MCM packages, and for Series SX only one​
such engine is built in, limiting hardware decompression throughput to​
8 GB/s but still supporting 3:1 ratio.​
>CF Express port for Series expansion card BC; shares access with the​
M.2 drive slot on the decompression I/O block (having both an expansion​
card and M.2 drive installed will reduce overall peak bandwidth of M.2​
drive if it provides more than 5.6 GB/s in sequential read bandwidth)​
>Includes built-in support for Wifi 6E​
>10 Gbit ethernet RJ-45 port​
>1x USB Gen 3 Type-C port & 1 USB Gen 3 Type-A port​
>>Digital-only​
>MSRP: $299
>RELEASE: Fall (September-November) 2024

-------------


>SERIES 5ive

>Mid-gen refresh, replaces Series X at the top-end scale​
>Series X will be moved to 6nm process in late 2022,​
and have price drop to $399 in late 2023. Last Series​
X units will be manufactured by mid-2024 with a final​
price cut to $349​
>5nm process (CPU & GPU)​
>Zen 2 CPU. 8c/16t, 4 GHz​
>Custom RDNA 4 architecture​
>Uses introduction of AMD's Neural Engine, an ASIC block nested alongside​
the CPU cores (and sharing the scheduler) aimed at accelerating ML tasks.​
One is within the CPU block, another is built into the GPU and both are​
altered slightly to fit their uses​
>Peak GPU clock rate of 1.825 GHz, providing peak performance of 14.95 TF​
>GPU is comprise of 1 GCD, with 2 SE, 2 SAs (per SE), 5 WGPs (per SA), 8 SIMD units​
(per WGP), and 32 ALUs (per SIMD unit), giving 4,096 shader cores​
>6x 2 GB 14 Gbps & 4x 1 GB 14 Gbps modules providing 16 GB @ 560 GB/s​
>64 ROPs (effective pixel fillrate of 116 Gpixels/S)​
>208 TMUs (effective texel fillrate of 379 Gtexels/S)​
>14.6 billion geometry culling rate​
>7.3 billion triangle rasterization rate​
>GPU's Neural Engine has sub-engines that are specifically built for RT-accelerated​
taskwork​
[GPU CACHES]
>L0$: 32 KB per WGP (4 KB per SIMD32) (640 KB total)​
>L1$: 128 KB per WGP (2.56 MB total)​
>L2$: 768 KB per Array (1.5 MB per SE, 3 MB total)​
>L3$: 2 MB per Engine (4 MB total)​
>L4$: 8 MB per GCD (8 MB total)​
>64 MB of Infinity Cache built into the GPU​
>Integrated CF Express port for Series expansion card BC​
>Revamped SSD I/O; comes with 1 TB capacity NVMe 2.0 PCIe Gen 5.0 x4 M.2 SSD​
@ 8 GB/s bandwidth. Supports up to 20 TB capacity drives of 16 GB/s bandwidth.​
>Decompression block is comprised of 2 MCM chiplet engines managed together by​
a central unit that provides 3:1 decompression support with a hardware limit​
of 24 GB/s.​
>Digital and Disc support​
>MSRP: $499
>RELEASE: Fall 2024

==============

So, those are my own speculations for what mid-gen refreshes (and new services, at least one based on a rumor we've all heard of by now) Sony & Microsoft could have planned in the next few years, starting with this one. Will some or even any of these come to pass? Dunno, but it's something I'm thinking has a good chance of happening (and hope happens), in any case.

But, do any of the rest of you have any faith that we'll get any unique mid-gen refreshes, new product launches for other market segments and/or service launches & redesigns within the next 3-4 years? If you do, what exactly do you have in mind? What do you WANT to see come to fruition?
 
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Dude... Both consoles launched in 2020, can you wait till year 4?

Nah. Sony & Microsoft aren't.

I believe technology such as FSR/TSR or machine learning based reconstruction will be the game changer for this gen.

They are; unfortunately the current systems lack hardware-based acceleration for many of these features, so compute work on the GPU has to be dedicated to them which is more generic and takes away resources from processing graphics & frames for the framebuffer.

Refreshes adding in dedicated hardware acceleration for these tasks could optimize performance even better without sucking away compute work from the GPU to do so.
 
Nah. Sony & Microsoft aren't.



They are; unfortunately the current systems lack hardware-based acceleration for many of these features, so compute work on the GPU has to be dedicated to them which is more generic and takes away resources from processing graphics & frames for the framebuffer.

Refreshes adding in dedicated hardware acceleration for these tasks could optimize performance even better without sucking away compute work from the GPU to do so.
For machine learning yes. But technology such as UE5-TSR works on game engine software level, and only cost minor hardware resources, but the result is still passable, even if its not as good as motion vectors.
 
Last edited:

yurinka

Member
I love this PS Fold idea, but I think they won't do it and will keep tablets and smartphones instead for PS Now cloud gaming, Remote Play and native mobile games.

I think this time they will release slim versions, but not Pro devices with enhaced specs. This time we'll see way more crossgen games during way more time, and AAA take longer to make. So around mid gen we'll start seeing the first games that will take full advantage of this hardware, so it won't be needed to have mid gen refresh with better hardware.

I think Sony will release this attachable DS-like controller for smartphones and tablets but not the tablet itself. I think they'll release a PS5 Slim and maybe a PS5 Super Slim and from that they'll move to PS6.

I think MS won't relese more gaming harware, if something a slimmer Series X. They can keep Series-S as cheap GP machine and for streaming you can use any random 3rd party tv Chromecast like tv dongle or you'll have the GP app on the tv itself.
 
The demand of chips can't be supplied and you are dreaming of a new version? C'mon people
LOL I don't think anyone really understands the gravity of the current market climate to understand that.

How many next gen exclusives do we even have on the market right now? Have developers even really taken advantage of the next gen feature set of these consoles? But sure these companies are going to spend more $$$ on Pro revisions when they can't even ship enough consoles to meet current demand 😂

May as well start the PS6 and Xbox Series XX threads.
 
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Smether

Member
Amazingly detailed set of predictions mate.

I don't dare elaborate on the clocks and cache sizes, but I do think Sony will go for a PS5 Pro option. I don't see how they sit on the sideline while folks are reselling Playstations for so much more than MSRP and not think, "hey, we could be selling a more expensive, and higher margin, SKU!" Not to mention it would shut up the haters saying the Series X is more powerful.

Naturally Microsoft would respond with a more powerful option as well.

I also think if the PS Now/Spartacus option is done right they would want to try another hand held, again based on the Switch being such a smash hit I imagine Sony would want to try and get a piece of that market.
 

ZehDon

Member
Microsoft states the reason the Series S exists is because they don’t believe we’ll see the usual hardware refresh this generation; no Slim, no Pro. Add in the current chip shortage, and I doubt they’ll run that many lines of hardware.

I believe we’ll see a refined version of the next gen machines with a new version model number - we’ve already saw this with the PS5 heat sink redesign - but the specs will remain identical. The gains to be had will be on the software side of things.
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
I dont think we will get pro models.
However the slim models will have slightly higher clocks, like the Xbox one S.
 
Last edited:
I love this PS Fold idea, but I think they won't do it and will keep tablets and smartphones instead for PS Now cloud gaming, Remote Play and native mobile games.

They could def do this and it'd be the more practical option perhaps, but with Sony already making a slight profit from PS5 Disc units at MSRP, and them saying they were looking at Nintendo's OLED strategy (potentially for profit margins and sales volumes), if they can bring out their own handheld with healthy profit margins and solid performance...why not just do that?

It'd also allow them to control distribution better and ensure performance for software is at a minimum threshold of quality, not to mention allows for way better quality control management.

I think this time they will release slim versions, but not Pro devices with enhaced specs. This time we'll see way more crossgen games during way more time, and AAA take longer to make. So around mid gen we'll start seeing the first games that will take full advantage of this hardware, so it won't be needed to have mid gen refresh with better hardware.

It's probably a toss-up between just bare slim models and MAYBE slim models with RDNA 3 (or 4) hardware features built-in at this point. Each have their obvious benefits IMO, the former would be easier to implement though, especially with a move to a smaller node process (5nm should be more than freed up by 2023/2024 possibly if smartphone makers are shifting to 3nm...if 3nm is available on time, anyway).

I think Sony will release this attachable DS-like controller for smartphones and tablets but not the tablet itself. I think they'll release a PS5 Slim and maybe a PS5 Super Slim and from that they'll move to PS6.

I think MS won't relese more gaming harware, if something a slimmer Series X. They can keep Series-S as cheap GP machine and for streaming you can use any random 3rd party tv Chromecast like tv dongle or you'll have the GP app on the tv itself.

MS probably needs to move Series S to at least 6nm to make it cheaper for manufacture, that way they can drop the price as time goes on.

S E R I E S
5 I V E

Hey, it sells.

May as well start the PS6 and Xbox Series XX threads.

😏oh don't worry, they're coming...

Amazingly detailed set of predictions mate.

I don't dare elaborate on the clocks and cache sizes, but I do think Sony will go for a PS5 Pro option. I don't see how they sit on the sideline while folks are reselling Playstations for so much more than MSRP and not think, "hey, we could be selling a more expensive, and higher margin, SKU!" Not to mention it would shut up the haters saying the Series X is more powerful.

Naturally Microsoft would respond with a more powerful option as well.

Thanks. Good point WRT these platform holders looking at how much some of these consoles are selling beyond MSRP, while still maintaining their demand. There is a market for higher-priced, higher-performance consoles at a premium that can still be cheaper and simpler for use than an equivalent built PC.

But the issue is if they would be able to secure the components, fab processes, wafers etc. for such chips. MCM/chiplet-based designs could help with flexibility in that regard, but they'd still need more RAM capacities with faster chips, etc. The counter to that is, they just produce way less of these premium systems.

Some interesting avenues for them to explore, for sure.

I also think if the PS Now/Spartacus option is done right they would want to try another hand held, again based on the Switch being such a smash hit I imagine Sony would want to try and get a piece of that market.

Plus a new handheld would definitely help Sony out in Japan and other parts of the Asian market (and add another piece of hardware they can potentially sell for at a modest profit either shortly after launch or Day 1).
 

Bonfires Down

Gold Member
This is gonna be one long ass generation. I think 8 years is the minimum before a PS6 and it could be up to 10 years.

Between chip shortages, diminishing price reductions on hardware and heat management it's gonna be a challenge to release Pro consoles at a reasonable price and form factor. I still think we'll get them along with Slim versions, but it's gonna be in 2024 at the earliest.

And unlike some, I don't think the current consoles are enough to last a decade. Not if you want games at 1440p60 or so.

Also I expect Microsoft to do a semi-new generation iPhone style instead of a normal Pro upgrade. They'll still support the current consoles through the whole generation of course.
 
I don't see a slim model happening for the series x. The size and shape of the series x is directly related to its cooling configuration/function. Meanwhile, the series s is already like a slim model. A slim version for the series x would be a complete revamp of the architecture and at that point they're better off just making a pro model imo.

The PS5 on the other hand could use a slim model. To me the outer console design looks wretched.
 
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Kerotan

Member
ps5 pro / slim in 2024 is my guess.
2024 is too soon for a pro. 2025 at the earliest and I'm expecting enough of a jump that it can play most games at 60fps in fidelity mode.

A slim yeah maybe 2023/4. That's just a cost reduction of the current model and there's plenty of room for size improvement.
 
This is just wishful thinking at best.

thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best you're totally ignoring the obvious issues with semi-conductor component scarcity. That's not going away.

As such you can be sure MS and Sony will remain on the current N7P process node for a long time yet (why on god's green earth would they move to a MORE competitive N5/6 node when they can't even get enough wafers on the existing node?).

You can be rest assured any plans for a mid-gen refresh console were canned over the past two years. They'll be lucky to be free of the component scarcity to support the growth of their current base consoles by the 7 yr of this current generation.
 
2024 is too soon for a pro. 2025 at the earliest and I'm expecting enough of a jump that it can play most games at 60fps in fidelity mode.

A slim yeah maybe 2023/4. That's just a cost reduction of the current model and there's plenty of room for size improvement.
2024 would be one year longer than it took ps4 pro to come out.

I don’t think there will be that much of a rush to get a slim out in 2023 because with chip shortages a shrink to a smaller node could cost a lot more, with so many competitors putting in chip orders.
 
The PS4 Pro was a butterfly design to maintain backwards compatibility, if they did that with PS5 you’d have a pretty beefy machine and hit 4k/60fps if they also upped the clock.
 
The PS4 Pro was a butterfly design to maintain backwards compatibility, if they did that with PS5 you’d have a pretty beefy machine and hit 4k/60fps if they also upped the clock.
Mmhmm.

72 compute units on ps5 pro from 36 on ps5, maybe 2.5ghz. They could probably add custom rt fuctions from rdna3 like ps4 pro had custom functionality for checkerboard rendering.

Personally i’d be more excited for better 120fps support but surely everything could at least hit 4k60.
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
I'm too lazy right now to see what it's about lol he kinda looks like a superhero in the clip lol

Edit: oh nevermind you posted a video of it, eh a musical 🤣

Sam Lowry (Jonathan Pryce) is a harried technocrat in a futuristic society that is needlessly convoluted and inefficient. He dreams of a life where he can fly away from technology and overpowering bureaucracy, and spend eternity with the woman of his dreams. While trying to rectify the wrongful arrest of one Harry Buttle (Brian Miller), Lowry meets the woman he is always chasing in his dreams, Jill Layton (Kim Greist). Meanwhile, the bureaucracy has fingered him responsible for a rash of terrorist bombings, and Sam and Jill's lives are put in danger.

 
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