• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Sony Is Not in an 'Arms Race’ With Microsoft, Says PlayStation Boss

Apr 22, 2021
664
1,654
460
If Sony buys more studios and combine PS+/PSnow I will subscribe every month that a good game comes out. and If they have enough content I will never unsubscribe. This is where the industry is heading, Sony may as well invest big now and reap the rewards for years to come.
It’s makes the most sense logically BUT an investment into subscriptions require a ton of losses for many many years to come. PlayStation being Sony’s main bread winner makes that investment into the service a gigantic risk. Microsoft on the other hand is fronting the bill for the services so they don’t really have much to lose. Logically it makes sense but from a business perspective it’s really really hard.
 
Jan 16, 2020
6,058
22,923
855
Okay, we going to count directors cuts as new releases this fall? If so let’s count Doom Eternal as a first party MS release because they added as much to that game from a technical perspective than the other two directors cuts. See how insane it sounds. Sony’s first party releases for the fall is Horizon and that’s pretty much it rn.

That's fine we can remove all the ports as new games then. Bye bye Flight Sim

Oh and Doom Eternal isn't exclusive so no its not being counted period.
 
Last edited:
Apr 22, 2021
664
1,654
460
That's fine we can remove all the ports as new games then. Bye bye Flight Sim
That’s fair. While I would say the difference is you can already play the games on ps5 via ps4 back compat, and if these games did the traditional free upgrade and dlc charged like most companies do no one would consider it a new release. While flight simulator is a game never given access on Xbox consoles. But if it’s only brand new games being counted that’s fine. I think that of all the games coming this fall Forza will probably review the best overall while halo will probably fall slightly Below HZD2 in score. So I don’t think acting like the quality disparity is there is fair.
 

Kenshin775

Member
Oct 16, 2019
160
232
255
It’s makes the most sense logically BUT an investment into subscriptions require a ton of losses for many many years to come. PlayStation being Sony’s main bread winner makes that investment into the service a gigantic risk. Microsoft on the other hand is fronting the bill for the services so they don’t really have much to lose. Logically it makes sense but from a business perspective it’s really really hard.

I understand but isn't there an even bigger risk if you don't do it? Sony is being shortsighted. If Gamepass is really adding 1 million new subscribers per month then I can only assume its going to be much higher in the future when Halo, Starfield, Elder Scrolls 6 come out.. and if MS gets to a point where they are getting 1.5 or 2 million subs per month then people are not going to spend money on PS because they are already getting so many games wit Gamepass.

Option 1) $70 vs Gamepass. This is just going to be an automatic fail and I feel like this is Sony's current path. People are not stupid. If Gamepass gets big enough where MS can get all major third party games on Gamepass then Sony's current strategy will fail miserably.

Option 2) Combine PSnow and PS+ and bring all first party games to the service Day 1. It takes an upfront investment and will probably take some losses but atleast there is hope for the future.
 
Apr 22, 2021
664
1,654
460
I understand but isn't there an even bigger risk if you don't do it? Sony is being shortsighted. If Gamepass is really adding 1 million new subscribers per month then I can only assume its going to be much higher in the future when Halo, Starfield, Elder Scrolls 6 come out.. and if MS gets to a point where they are getting 1.5 or 2 million subs per month then people are not going to spend money on PS because they are already getting so many games wit Gamepass.

Option 1) $70 vs Gamepass. This is just going to be an automatic fail and I feel like this is Sony's current path. People are not stupid. If Gamepass gets big enough where MS can get all major third party games on Gamepass then Sony's current strategy will fail miserably.

Option 2) Combine PSnow and PS+ and bring all first party games to the service Day 1. It takes an upfront investment and will probably take some losses but atleast there is hope for the future.
Again, it’s a really tough space to get into. MS is the only company launching their games day and date into their service while companies like EA and Ubi still want to get a couple of months of sales before they do. I think the movie comparison to Netflix is a bit unfair considering how much cheaper films are to produce. And the more expensive ones on Disney plus still have a few attached. I think that MS is creating a business model that only them , google and Amazon can currently front the bill for. I think if Sony did it would be hard for their investors to really want to foot the bill for losing arguably billions in sales per year unless they can double the game’s ass growth rate almost instantly.
 

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,445
4,522
385
So this thread turned to shit as soon as Shelook came back from his ban. Hopefully the next one is permanent. You guys should know by now to ignore all their posts (and Riky too).
Are you saying it's not a concidence?
 

Shelookdlvl18

Banned
Nov 8, 2020
558
1,064
360
So this thread turned to shit as soon as Shelook came back from his ban. Hopefully the next one is permanent. You guys should know by now to ignore all their posts (and Riky too).
I merely countered someone's false narrative with facts. No trolling, no warring, no baseless accusations.

How is it my fault that you apparently lack the ability to form a competent rebuttal?
 

ksdixon

Member
Jul 31, 2010
3,695
1,937
1,140
I understand but isn't there an even bigger risk if you don't do it? Sony is being shortsighted. If Gamepass is really adding 1 million new subscribers per month then I can only assume its going to be much higher in the future when Halo, Starfield, Elder Scrolls 6 come out.. and if MS gets to a point where they are getting 1.5 or 2 million subs per month then people are not going to spend money on PS because they are already getting so many games wit Gamepass.

Option 1) $70 vs Gamepass. This is just going to be an automatic fail and I feel like this is Sony's current path. People are not stupid. If Gamepass gets big enough where MS can get all major third party games on Gamepass then Sony's current strategy will fail miserably.

Option 2) Combine PSnow and PS+ and bring all first party games to the service Day 1. It takes an upfront investment and will probably take some losses but atleast there is hope for the future.
I feel like neither options are quite right.

With option 1, you would think that, but we keep seeing an 80%-20% split between a game's PS audience and XB audience. There's plenty of factor's at play here, but I'm sure we've heard rumblings of some developers not being happy at GP and what it means for sales on XB platform. I would imagine that more devs would turn exclusively to PS where most of their audience is, or at least do more timed exclusive deals with Sony. Later on they may want to double-dip by throwing the now-old game on GP as well. The question is how many people will bank on GP later and just not buy games for a couple of years, hoping it comes to GP later? I've sort of contradicted myself here with what if's, but no one really knows which direction will yeild the more fruit yet, do they?

Option 2... The day 1 thing isn't what Sony need to do. They actually have quality AAA blockbuster exclusives. They now have Nixxes and hopefully BluePoint for PC Ports and Remasters whilst the original devs go off and make more bangers. Keep that flow of new games fast and heavy. What they need to do is make everything on PSNow downloadable so it can be played without lag. They also need to massively invest in BC and throw more BC shit up onto PSNow, and the PStore, and 'then' start marketing the shit out of PSNow. That's what PSNow lacks compared to GP, more spotlight, 100% downloadability and BC to bolster it's game numbers even higher.

They have the brand, but they're spitting on their own past legacy. They need to fix that aspect, and Jim Ryan running his dick licker saying things like 'who'd want to play that old game' is the exact opposite of what fans want to hear. It takes away any confidence in leadership, if you feel like the guy in charge doesn't know what he's doing. I mean FFS he had to come out and say 'I want people to know I don't hate old games.' JFC! But does he learn? Is there a move on BC solution? Nah 'I'll just shut up next time'... MF'er... you just don't get it, and any sane PS fan who cares about the legacy and not the money, riding high off the PS4 momentum train, wants your ass gone.
 

Helghan

Member
Apr 15, 2021
164
210
225
There's plenty of factor's at play here, but I'm sure we've heard rumblings of some developers not being happy at GP and what it means for sales on XB platform.
Do you have quotes for this? Because most devs have been supportive of GP
 
  • Like
Reactions: reksveks

SaucyJack

Member
Aug 8, 2013
2,112
3,007
755
I understand but isn't there an even bigger risk if you don't do it? Sony is being shortsighted. If Gamepass is really adding 1 million new subscribers per month then I can only assume its going to be much higher in the future when Halo, Starfield, Elder Scrolls 6 come out.. and if MS gets to a point where they are getting 1.5 or 2 million subs per month then people are not going to spend money on PS because they are already getting so many games wit Gamepass.

Option 1) $70 vs Gamepass. This is just going to be an automatic fail and I feel like this is Sony's current path. People are not stupid. If Gamepass gets big enough where MS can get all major third party games on Gamepass then Sony's current strategy will fail miserably.

Option 2) Combine PSnow and PS+ and bring all first party games to the service Day 1. It takes an upfront investment and will probably take some losses but atleast there is hope for the future.

PS Plus has just shy of 50 million subscribers and PS Now just over 3 million, there’s definitely scope for leveraging the latter by offering a “premium” combined sub. I have no doubt that currently Sony are generating more revenue from Plus/Now than Xbox is from Gamepass.

Gamepass numbers offer eye catching headlines but I’m not convinced by whats under the hood yet, those numbers have largely been achieved on the back of allowing existing Gold subscribers to upgrade to GPU for fuck all. The proof of the pudding comes when those subscribers come to pay a full price sub, or not.

I do think competition will force Sony to improve the Plus/Now offering and I welcome that. Time will tell what Gamepass settles down to be, it is insanely good value just now but I doubt that will continue longer term, I would expect to see cheaper content and, like Netflix, a subscription price that creeps up. GAAS/live service stuff will be very appealing for the platform holder.
 

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
I'm sure we've heard rumblings of some developers not being happy at GP and what it means for sales on XB platform.
Quotes?

To the other side, we have heard some devs praising the effects of gamepass



P.s I know Phil said the metric that he is looking at when it comes to publishers is how many publishers re-put the next game on gamepass, I would probably look at that as well but it wouldn't surprise me if we see new IP goes on GP and then the sequel not initially.
 
Last edited:
  • Fire
Reactions: DarkMage619

SaucyJack

Member
Aug 8, 2013
2,112
3,007
755
Quotes?

To the other side, we have heard some devs praising the effects of gamepass



P.s I know Phil said the metric that he is looking at when it comes to publishers is how many publishers re-put the next game on gamepass, I would probably look at that as well but it wouldn't surprise me if we see new IP goes on GP and then the sequel not initially.

Tbh that’s just marketing, some cherry picked happy devs writing puff pieces.

Some devs will have done pretty well, others less so. I seem to remember seeing Paradox say that they’ve not been that happy with what they’ve earned from Gamepass and other subscription services but I have no link for that.

Time will tell, a lot depends on how much Xbox are paying for the content, and in some cases how the dev is rewarded. The aforementioned Paradox definitely prefers to be remunerated based on hours paid, but MS prefers lump sum. MS are probably paying more of a premium for content right now, whether that continues will determine how willing devs are to put their games on.
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: DarkMage619

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
Tbh that’s just marketing, some cherry picked happy devs writing puff pieces.

Some devs will have done pretty well, others less so. I seem to remember seeing Paradox say that they’ve not been that happy with what they’ve earned from Gamepass and other subscription services but I have no link for that.
It is but its the only public comments that I have seen yet from publishers/devs on gamepass.
 

kanjobazooie

Member
May 29, 2021
566
963
335
I seem to remember seeing Paradox say that they’ve not been that happy with what they’ve earned from Gamepass and other subscription services but I have no link for that.
It is but its the only public comments that I have seen yet from publishers/devs on gamepass.

The Paradox comment:
While the Game Pass model to us is still a decent model, we think we're not getting paid enough, because people play our games more than they play very single-player driven narratives.

What developers think of Xbox Game Pass • Eurogamer.net
 
Mar 27, 2020
14,330
37,065
725
Uncharted bunghole
  • Like
Reactions: kanjobazooie

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
Cheers interesting that he is the ex-CEO so wonder what games that been released under him and what games was post his reign.

Now at Paradox, we loved that business model, because people play our games for three or four thousand hours. While the Game Pass model to us is still a decent model, we think we're not getting paid enough, because people play our games more than they play very single-player driven narratives."

It looks like he wants a model that pays based on time and not a fixed upfront fee or a revenue per download, like the onlive model.
 
Last edited:

ksdixon

Member
Jul 31, 2010
3,695
1,937
1,140
I'll be honest, I'm drawing a blank on where I heard that about dev negative feedback towards GP. Could have been someone's podcast rather than a dev? I was thinking things like PS5 getting extra shit like RE village demo, but now that I think about it, that could just be one of the things Sony paid for, exclusive demo to help with mindshare conflating RE and PS etc.

I myself don't really see the point in timed exclusivity. Unless you need to play a game on day 1, you can just wait. Especially if one is conditioned to wait (paying GP in the mean time), in the hopes that something comes to PC/GP at a later date. That's another reason why I don't really like PC ports. If gamers are being conditioned to wait for PC or GP, they're less likely to purchase at all, especially at full price when Sony are trying to establish a new higher day 1 price at the same time. Eventually, how do you plan to successfully sell your next console to the masses? It won't be exclusive games, that people just wait on a PC port, or timed exclusive games/content, where people wait for eventual GP drop.
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,752
24,375
835
I'll be honest, I'm drawing a blank on where I heard that about dev negative feedback towards GP. Could have been someone's podcast rather than a dev? I was thinking things like PS5 getting extra shit like RE village demo, but now that I think about it, that could just be one of the things Sony paid for, exclusive demo to help with mindshare conflating RE and PS etc.

I myself don't really see the point in timed exclusivity. Unless you need to play a game on day 1, you can just wait. Especially if one is conditioned to wait (paying GP in the mean time), in the hopes that something comes to PC/GP at a later date. That's another reason why I don't really like PC ports. If gamers are being conditioned to wait for PC or GP, they're less likely to purchase at all, especially at full price when Sony are trying to establish a new higher day 1 price at the same time. Eventually, how do you plan to successfully sell your next console to the masses? It won't be exclusive games, that people just wait on a PC port, or timed exclusive games/content, where people wait for eventual GP drop.
Becoming associated with getting access to content first creates an image of being in first class.

People seldom associate value with luxury. And many that seek value, still aspire to something better as a goal.

It’s a brand building exercise.
 

ksdixon

Member
Jul 31, 2010
3,695
1,937
1,140
Becoming associated with getting access to content first creates an image of being in first class.

People seldom associate value with luxury. And many that seek value, still aspire to something better as a goal.

It’s a brand building exercise.
Good point, but it seems somewhat shortsighted to me. I'll cite Deathloop. Sony made timed exclusive deal, prob paid lots of money, and meanwhile MS paid even more money to scoop up the dev itself. So now you have the rather unfortunate situation of promoting an XB studio's game. That I would wager many won't buy because they already know that in a year's time it'll be going straight on GP. My personal opinion is if Sony do have the ability to source cash or leverage debt to make some acquisitions in the gaming space, they should take a step back from music and media spending, and dreams of a Sony theme park, and make sure they still have a realistic future to rely on in the gaming space. HouseMarquee already said Sony weren't the only interested suiters, for example.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shmunter

phil_t98

Member
Oct 10, 2014
5,137
5,508
735
Becoming associated with getting access to content first creates an image of being in first class.

People seldom associate value with luxury. And many that seek value, still aspire to something better as a goal.

It’s a brand building exercise.

Agree with that to a point where Disney+ is still providing too quality content and a valuable price. I think that the world and how we consume content is changing. We will still go the cinema we will still buy movies but we want options to. Same with games, we want options to how we get our content.

if sony did their own version of gamepass do you think people wouldnt buy into it? They would just keep buying the games?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,752
24,375
835
Agree with that to a point where Disney+ is still providing too quality content and a valuable price. I think that the world and how we consume content is changing. We will still go the cinema we will still buy movies but we want options to. Same with games, we want options to how we get our content.

if sony did their own version of gamepass do you think people wouldnt buy into it? They would just keep buying the games?
Only a dummy pays more for the identical thing if its available.

However a ‘race to the bottom’ is a real phenomenon. Such things are only sustainable to a point, and more often than not corners start being cut and quality suffers to sustain a model that actively prioritises value as its core proposition.

It further acts to devalue a sector as it trains people to think of individual creations as off little worth.

Not going to get into it all, the evidence is clear. Never ending specials, ps+ giveaways, and now the ultimate weapon - all you can eat gaming.

Despite it all seemingly becoming inevitable, I love gaming too much to not object along the way.
 
Last edited:

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,232
27,150
995
Ireland
Only a dummy pays more for the identical thing if its available.

However a ‘race to the bottom’ is a real phenomenon. Such things are only sustainable to a point, and more often than not corners start being cut and quality suffers to sustain a model that actively prioritises value as its core proposition.

It further acts to devalue a sector as it trains people to think of individual creations as off little worth.

Not going to get into it all, the evidence is clear. Never ending specials, ps+ giveaways, and now the ultimate weapon - all you can eat gaming.

Despite it all seemingly becoming inevitable, I love gaming too much to not object along the way.

Yeah, It's their weapon against PlayStation first party..... devalue games as much as possible so that they are seen as almost disposable.

SO people tell themselves 'well I'm getting something that kinda looks like the PlayStation one but I only have to pay 15 a month or whatever promotion they're on'

That's why I think Sony should buy a few studios that make unique stuff or are top of their niche, like From Soft, Arc System Works and Bungie and maybe one or two more and just lock them down just inside the PS console ecosystem to protect the value.

Square and Sega would be nice.
 
Last edited:

arvfab

Member
Dec 4, 2020
527
1,355
325
Only a dummy pays more for the identical thing if its available.

However a ‘race to the bottom’ is a real phenomenon. Such things are only sustainable to a point, and more often than not corners start being cut and quality suffers to sustain a model that actively prioritises value as its core proposition.

It further acts to devalue a sector as it trains people to think of individual creations as off little worth.

Not going to get into it all, the evidence is clear. Never ending specials, ps+ giveaways, and now the ultimate weapon - all you can eat gaming.

Despite it all seemingly becoming inevitable, I love gaming too much to not object along the way.

Unfortunately people are shortsighted. They don't see, how the endgame will be streaming, subscription based services only. As soon as dedicated hardware is gone, you will see all major publishers having their own service you have to subscribe to, if you like their games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: abacab driver

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
Unfortunately people are shortsighted. They don't see, how the endgame will be streaming, subscription based services only. As soon as dedicated hardware is gone, you will see all major publishers having their own service you have to subscribe to, if you like their games.
You are combining two things that doesn't need to be. Netflix does sell blu-rays where it has the right to.

But I can't be bothered to debate the death of local gaming again. There is no evidence for that yet.

Also have skipped a number of steps to that future
 
Last edited:

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,503
29,203
1,420
Yeah, It's their weapon against PlayStation first party..... devalue games as much as possible so that they are seen as almost disposable.

SO people tell themselves 'well I'm getting something that kinda looks like the PlayStation one but I only have to pay 15 a month or whatever promotion they're on'

That's why I think Sony should buy a few studios that make unique stuff or are top of their niche, like From Soft, Arc System Works and Bungie and maybe one or two more and just lock them down just inside the PS console ecosystem to protect the value.

Square and Sega would be nice.
I see what you mean, but Sony would just be tempted to stop such content from going to gamepass, i.e., release on PS5 and PC, just no gamepass for those games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bryank75

arvfab

Member
Dec 4, 2020
527
1,355
325
There is no evidence for that yet.

That's called being shortsighted (without offence) and what I and other are saying might be called "being overly pessimistic", I see that, don't you think that I'm not aware of it.

I'm also aware that such a scenario will take at least 10, if not 20 years to reach.

But the earlier people see the catastrophe incoming, the better.
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
11,232
27,150
995
Ireland
I see what you mean, but Sony would just be tempted to stop such content from going to gamepass, i.e., release on PS5 and PC, just no gamepass for those games.

Yeah most could be like that, some could even go to Nintendo if they wanted.

But they'd need a strong fully exclusive portfolio too, where that makes sense,
 
  • Like
Reactions: PharaoTutAnchAmun

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
That's called being shortsighted (without offence) and what I and other are saying might be called "being overly pessimistic", I see that, don't you think that I'm not aware of it.

I'm also aware that such a scenario will take at least 10, if not 20 years to reach.

But the earlier people see the catastrophe incoming, the better.
I can see it happening as a possibility for sure and if you think it is a catastrophe, then yeah I understand the desire to fight against it.

I guess I don't see it as a catastrophe and also don't see it as the eventuality given other forms of media haven't gone completely down that possibility.

That might require people like yourself to become true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarkMage619

arvfab

Member
Dec 4, 2020
527
1,355
325
I can see it happening as a possibility for sure and if you think it is a catastrophe, then yeah I understand the desire to fight against it.

I guess I don't see it as a catastrophe and also don't see it as the eventuality given other forms of media haven't gone completely down that possibility.

That might require people like yourself to become true.

Series/Movies are already pretty far down that path. How many services are there currently? Each with exclusive contents. You had Disney movies and shows on the other services, until they decided that they prefer the whole cake instead of just a slice and created their own service.
But it's not enough, I can now pay a fee (additionally to the sub) to stream a movie on the service, before it is included in the normal subscription. Isn't it great!?

You made the example with Netflix shows being offered on blu-ray, but are they coming on blu-ray the same date as on the streaming service? (Honest question, I don't know).

For example, I had to wait the blu-ray releases for the Game of Thrones seasons, because in Germany they were on a service I'm not subscribed to.

Now imagine similar annoying things in a near future for games.

PS: I don't know what you mean with "That might require people like yourself to become true."
 

Unknown?

Member
Jan 5, 2016
5,114
3,858
560
Series/Movies are already pretty far down that path. How many services are there currently? Each with exclusive contents. You had Disney movies and shows on the other services, until they decided that they prefer the whole cake instead of just a slice and created their own service.
But it's not enough, I can now pay a fee (additionally to the sub) to stream a movie on the service, before it is included in the normal subscription. Isn't it great!?

You made the example with Netflix shows being offered on blu-ray, but are they coming on blu-ray the same date as on the streaming service? (Honest question, I don't know).

For example, I had to wait the blu-ray releases for the Game of Thrones seasons, because in Germany they were on a service I'm not subscribed to.

Now imagine similar annoying things in a near future for games.

PS: I don't know what you mean with "That might require people like yourself to become true."
Yup. Movies had it good for awhile because there was only one mainstream streaming service but now they've learned that they all can do their own subscriptions and gaming will follow eventually. Want Namco games? Subscribe to Namco Pass because none will be on GamePass.
 

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
Series/Movies are already pretty far down that path. How many services are there currently? Each with exclusive contents. You had Disney movies and shows on the other services, until they decided that they prefer the whole cake instead of just a slice and created their own service.
But it's not enough, I can now pay a fee (additionally to the sub) to stream a movie on the service, before it is included in the normal subscription. Isn't it great!?
I have an issue with the Disney premiere+ offering but that's cause I think they need to drop the subscription requirements off it. Aka if you buy it, you should keep the movie even if your subscription end. I think that will happen eventually though.

I don't mind more players in the space, it leads to more investment and hopefully better quality content. I do remember the days of only having Netflix and whilst I am annoyed of having 3 subscriptions, I think there is better content. I am happy that Phoebe Waller-Bridge got £££ from amazon cause they wanted content.

You made the example with Netflix shows being offered on blu-ray, but are they coming on blu-ray the same date as on the streaming service? (Honest question, I don't know).
I don't think it was day and date, I think is based on user reception which obviously makes it a reactive blu-ray release.

For example, I had to wait the blu-ray releases for the Game of Thrones seasons, because in Germany they were on a service I'm not subscribed to.
HBO is a bit of a weird case, I would subscribe to HBO Max if I could. I have a couple of blu-rays but honestly, I only get to my movie ones. I don't typically re-watch shows. But yeah, I think you hopefully will get the option to buy and watch at the same time. Might have a look at Amazon Prime Video.

Now imagine similar annoying things in a near future for games.

As mentioned above, I think that the additional competition and investment is good. I don't know if that happens if its a single company like Netflix dominating the space.

PS: I don't know what you mean with "That might require people like yourself to become true."
As in consumers whom are pushing back to ensure that they don't go subscription only are needed to temper their own plans.
 

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
Yup. Movies had it good for awhile because there was only one mainstream streaming service but now they've learned that they all can do their own subscriptions and gaming will follow eventually. Want Namco games? Subscribe to Namco Pass because none will be on GamePass.
Subscriber fatigue is real and the smaller companies will figure out that they need to combine. In the short term, they will need to provide value.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Jan 13, 2018
10,031
21,326
1,010
Something to keep in mind about multiple subscriptions is that for movies, it's still attractive to people because having 3 subs is still about half price of what cable cost.

If people end up spending more money on games for less value, they will not go for it. Ancillary services like Ubisoft, etc, will probably have to stay around $5 to get people to include them as an add-on to the primary two for any real length of time.

HBO Max just had to drop their price from $15 to $10. Discovery + is $5. Disney is still below $10 if I'm not mistaken. People made room for about 2-3 subs (Hulu, Netflix, Disney, Amazon), then they tend to stop.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: arvfab and reksveks

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,863
15,119
2,000
Just read where grubb said he heard “rumblings of a western company investing heavily in a Japanese one.” That and these WB studio rumors. I doubt ALL of these are true but damn Sony, how can you be this asleep at the wheel?
They could live without a few of those wb games but Japanese developers? Time to read the room Sony.

Edit: What’s even sonys long term plan here? Watch as MS and ten cent gobble up the industry and sit on the sidelines scooping up extremely small dev studios? Like how do you go to complete domination to just watching every one around you make moves?

Sony just literally bought Insomniac like 1 year ago. What's wrong with some of you guys?
 
Last edited:

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
Jan 7, 2018
3,069
11,080
640
Just want to say that i'm glad that Sony is supporting fighting games, as it's one of my favorite genre, specially 3D ones. (Tekken is my number 1 franchise of all time)
 

ksdixon

Member
Jul 31, 2010
3,695
1,937
1,140
You are combining two things that doesn't need to be. Netflix does sell blu-rays where it has the right to.

But I can't be bothered to debate the death of local gaming again. There is no evidence for that yet.

Also have skipped a number of steps to that future
Explain EA PLAY linked into GP then. Or Ubisoft+ or whatever they've renamed UPLAY to this week, always trying to get an advantage like coming with Luna, or asking a survey what people would pay for. View the PC space where everyone tried having their own launcher/storefront.

Don't act like such a downward slope wouldn't happen. There's no way I'll be subbing to 5-6 game services. That's like how now that there's Netflix, Disney +, HULU blah blah, I'm back sailing the seas after a long ass time happily on dry land.

The only reason I've even got 3 years of GP for like £1 is due to the horrific head-in-own-ass statements coming out of Jim Ryan's mouth this/last year. But the second my GP runs out, or whenever MS up the price, this XBSX can get in the bin. JFC it's 95% a dust collector as it is, even with me intending it as a GP rental box and "getting one over on MS". When I do game on it... I mostly play emulated SEGA SAT/DC and PS 123 games on it anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: arvfab

anothertech

Member
Oct 1, 2014
4,577
2,097
715
So this thread turned to shit as soon as Shelook came back from his ban. Hopefully the next one is permanent. You guys should know by now to ignore all their posts (and Riky too).
It's a hard life when your favorite plastic box has been left behind in the dust since circa 2013

Have some empathy for god's sake. Poor poor souls
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: DarkMage619

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
Explain EA PLAY linked into GP then. Or Ubisoft+ or whatever they've renamed UPLAY to this week, always trying to get an advantage like coming with Luna, or asking a survey what people would pay for. View the PC space where everyone tried having their own launcher/storefront.

Don't act like such a downward slope wouldn't happen. There's no way I'll be subbing to 5-6 game services. That's like how now that there's Netflix, Disney +, HULU blah blah, I'm back sailing the seas after a long ass time happily on dry land.

I am confused, I was talking on about the future possibility of subscription/streaming only gaming services which I don't see Microsoft adopting as the only way to access their games. I understand that you might not like signing up to different game services (I don't mind it especially if those games services are competing against each other for your $ and part of that competition is investment into the content like we see for tv show's/movies) but Microsoft is still allowing you to buy the games and in the case of PC, even on competitor strong fronts. I don't find any of the EA Play or Uplay services worthwhile at all so haven't subscribed to them but others might.

Regarding what i assume is a nod to Piracy, that's fine if you are comfortable at not supporting those service and therefore content producers in that way or at all. (you can obviously support them separately by going and buying physical media). I do think it's just a rationalisation on your part to not pay for media though but you do you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarkMage619

phil_t98

Member
Oct 10, 2014
5,137
5,508
735
Only a dummy pays more for the identical thing if its available.

However a ‘race to the bottom’ is a real phenomenon. Such things are only sustainable to a point, and more often than not corners start being cut and quality suffers to sustain a model that actively prioritises value as its core proposition.

It further acts to devalue a sector as it trains people to think of individual creations as off little worth.

Not going to get into it all, the evidence is clear. Never ending specials, ps+ giveaways, and now the ultimate weapon - all you can eat gaming.

Despite it all seemingly becoming inevitable, I love gaming too much to not object along the way.
So race to the bottom?

you think flight sim and the yet as unreleased forza horizon look bottom rung games?

you honestly dont think sony could offer a service as good as gamepass and the studios they have couldn’t release quality games still?
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: DarkMage619

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,752
24,375
835
So race to the bottom?

you think flight sim and the yet as unreleased forza horizon look bottom rung games?

you honestly dont think sony could offer a service as good as gamepass and the studios they have couldn’t release quality games still?
You’re assessing things as a snapshot in time, not the long term evolution of these things.

Apart from that I assume both of these games are designed around engagement more so than a finite start and end campaign. How does a single player narrative game fit into a service where repeated time spent is the currency?

As great as Forza is, how would Xbox gamers receive it if it were excluded from gamepass and expected to pay $60?
 
  • Like
Reactions: phil_t98

phil_t98

Member
Oct 10, 2014
5,137
5,508
735
You’re assessing things as a snapshot in time, not the long term evolution of these things.

Apart from that I assume both of these games are designed around engagement more so than a finite start and end campaign. How does a single player narrative game fit into a service where repeated time spent is the currency?

As great as Forza is, how would Xbox gamers receive it if it were excluded from gamepass and expected to pay $60?

That’s exactly how we been getting forza previously, we are happy to pay and the great thing is that people can still buy the game to. Forza horizon has a story campaign so it is a single player game to. Yes it has an online side to it but that’s not the draw for me.

forza horizon is the driving version of Spider-Man for ps4. If you want to play the story you can but if you want to just go explore then its all there to do that.

games are massively evolving as a medium and there’s loads of ways game will change, i like online gaming which mostly Sony’s first party dont realy do. I also like single player to so sony are amazing at creating that content.

i dont think services like PSnow or gamepass will make games any worse or better to be honest. I think Microsoft are seeing it as a long term investment and buying up multiple studios to release content means games wont be rushed out or any corners cut.my opinion obviously
 

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,246
4,945
425
You’re assessing things as a snapshot in time, not the long term evolution of these things.

Apart from that I assume both of these games are designed around engagement more so than a finite start and end campaign. How does a single player narrative game fit into a service where repeated time spent is the currency?

As great as Forza is, how would Xbox gamers receive it if it were excluded from gamepass and expected to pay $60?
Those two maybe be designed around engagement but I think some games will still be designed to be critical successes as in review well for a singular experience. I see it like Roma, where certain movies/tv shows were bought/made to drive word of mouth to drive subscribers.

I don't know if the percent of live service games will change a massive amount with or without gamepass. Obviously we would need to define massive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shmunter