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Sony Is Not in an 'Arms Race’ With Microsoft, Says PlayStation Boss

Dolomite

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I picked up Xbox GamePass for a $1. I'm sure there are others who jumped at that same offer so trying to equate every GamePass sub to $10 entry fee is misleading. Unless you have access to the data from Xbox that proves different.

Sony needing PS is nothing new. It has been that way for years.

MS has been needing Xbox to be market leader since its inception and so far it hasn't come close to achieving that and the gap is only widening with PS5. They had a good shot when Sony bungled the launched of PS3 but that lead they had not only in terms of sales but marketshare has all but evaporated. Ask Aaron Greenberg, he used to sing the sounds of console sales from the rooftops when the 360 had a gorilla grip on the PS3's balls in the early years of that gen.
Funny how those songs died down as PS began to gain traction.

All businesses want to see a return on investment which is the thing that makes me laugh when people keep throwing around this 'warchest' that Xbox has at its disposal. Xbox is a business, just like PS and no business's going to start throwing around big $$$ if there is no solid business case for the investment. I'm no expert but I'm sure there has to be a balance on expense/profit.

Its not just all about who has most $$$. Simple example would be a star studded football team like PSG. At one point they had the most desirable players in the football world if you look at the overall quality of the team but they struggled to win major honors and only dominated in their home league.
Sure Xbox can afford to buy out studios but that doesn't guarantee success. It's just like how America is perceived vs Japan. One nation is hell bent on brute forcing concepts while the other focuses high efficiency and productivity.
Xbox wants to buy success but it remains to be seen if that will even work for them this time. They are making good moves but by no means does it guarantee anything.

There's one good thing coming out of all this though. A hungry Xbox makes for a ruthless PS and we've seen that during PS3/Xbox 360's tenure. Competition is not good, its great. That gen taught me one thing though. Underestimate PS at your peril.


BTW I don't view your original post as triggering people. Have no idea how this is a thing since we're on a forum where we discuss things be it agreeing or disagreeing with each other. It's all just good banter in the end.
TLDR they can't afford 7.5 Billion dollar purchases and MS makes more on the digital front from Gamepass PC/Console/Mobile.
Dope
 

Bryank75

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Yeah that's dope and I'm really proud of them (keep up the work) But like I said last week, gang...
Wake me when Sony can afford a publisher worth 20% of their holdings😭

The Office Lol GIF

It would be 17% if they used only cash.

However you're missing the point.

Sony's debt is so low, they could just pay half in debt..... or all of it in debt if they wanted. Debt is so cheap now it would be very efficient.
Microsoft would find this harder since they have over 55 Billion in debt, which needs to be paid down at the specified period, necessitating them to keep a lot of their cash on hand for those obligations.

Either way, I wouldn't worry.... if Sony feels they need to buy something big, they will do it. But Xbox is so far behind, even further than last generation.... I can't see them needing to buy anything of that magnitude.

MSFT got Zenimax, you should be happy about that and not worrying about what Sony can or cannot buy.
 

ksdixon

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Forgetting PlayStations nearly 50 million Plus subscribers and that most of PlayStations income actually comes from MTX.

Then looking at the split in sales due to gamepass cannibalizing 3rd party.....

Sony literally has a 34% stake in M3 inc right now worth 2.5 times what Zenimax is........ 17 Billion.

They invested 1.5 Billion into music acquisitions over the past 6 months and 1.2 billion for Crunchyroll.

You can tell yourself that Sony can't afford anything or anybody if it makes you feel better, but that is not reality.

That's without even using debt, they only have 7 billion debt, they could literally raise tens of billions if they needed for anything.
So what's Sony's ultimate gameplan within the games industry space?

Invest just enough in key companies, or enter into financial agreements like with Kodokawa, to stop anyone like MS or Tencent "pulling another Bethesda"?

Wouldn't that only be an effective strategy if Sony can get to 50% or 51% shares in each company they invest in (and such as with Epic, they already own less shares than, say, Tencent)?
 
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Bryank75

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So what's Sony's ultimate gameplan within the games industry space?

Invest just enough in key companies, or enter into financial agreements like with Kodokawa, to stop anyone like MS or Tencent "pulling another Bethesda"?

Wouldn't that only be an effective strategy if Sony can get to 50% or 51% shares in each company they invest in (and such as with Epic, they already own less shares than, say, Tencent)?


Housemarque was a nice small acquisition, they had cultivated the talent and they didn't want to lose that...so it made sense.
However it was not strategic, it makes no real difference to the business in any way.

The investments in Epic, Bilibili, Kadokawa and others are just symbolic of some type of partnership that underlies the financial transaction. Epic is working on their engine and some social stuff for Fortnite. Bilibili get anime from Sony and are now making games in return and Kadokawa and Cygames are working together to build strong global brands and awareness.

That is perfectly legitimate to do but I think they are missing out on some truly great acquisitions and opportunities....... most companies in Japan will not easily sell to an American company however, Kadokawa and their developers (From etc) are worth increasing the investment up to at least 51% for a controlling stake.

Square / Capcom will not sell. Platinum could sell but the simple fact is that there are too many companies to protect and they need to pick a few to buy fully and fill their needs....

Such as either NetherRealm or Arc System Works for a fighting game studio (depending on availability)

Bungie for a looter shooter that keeps a huge portion of gamers engaged between big releases, make updates PS only from acquisition forward.

MiHoYo - Sony need a Chinese studio and Genshin is extremely successful and can be a base in China to expand in the future. Also very profitable in the mobile space.

Kojima should be 1st party if possible due to his history with PS.

Of course they may not be able to get all or any of them depending on if they want to sell or how much they are asking..... certain companies may ask an unreasonable amount.

I don't think any large publishers will be selling soon and many of them are massively diminished in value. EA is massively dependent on FIfa, Madden and Battlefield, TakeTwo is similar with NBA2K and their R* games and Ubisoft is thinking of moving to free to play. They are massively expensive to buy and have very limited value.

There are some weird things going on at Sony right now.... Demon Slayer the game was licensed by Aniplex, which is owned by Sony but the game was published by Sega and is going to be on Xbox.........for all the integration and 'One Sony' they do themselves very little favor.
Also it makes no sense to pursue cloud gaming if the competition benefits from its parent company owning the infrastructure and you have to pay for the same thing. They should just focus on hardware....their key competency.

For me, things are way too weird....it's like Sony are trying to throw things so Xbox can gain some ground. If Jim Ryan truly is this incompetent, that is quite impressive to me.

Dunno if any of that makes sense, I'm tired and writing in a bit of a haze.
 
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ksdixon

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Housemarque was a nice small acquisition, they had cultivated the talent and they didn't want to lose that...so it made sense.
However it was not strategic, it makes no real difference to the business in any way.

The investments in Epic, Bilibili, Kadokawa and others are just symbolic of some type of partnership that underlies the financial transaction. Epic is working on their engine and some social stuff for Fortnite. Bilibili get anime from Sony and are now making games in return and Kadokawa and Cygames are working together to build strong global brands and awareness.

That is perfectly legitimate to do but I think they are missing out on some truly great acquisitions and opportunities....... most companies in Japan will not easily sell to an American company however, Kadokawa and their developers (From etc) are worth increasing the investment up to at least 51% for a controlling stake.

Square / Capcom will not sell. Platinum could sell but the simple fact is that there are too many companies to protect and they need to pick a few to buy fully and fill their needs....

Such as either NetherRealm or Arc System Works for a fighting game studio (depending on availability)

Bungie for a looter shooter that keeps a huge portion of gamers engaged between big releases, make updates PS only from acquisition forward.

MiHoYo - Sony need a Chinese studio and Genshin is extremely successful and can be a base in China to expand in the future. Also very profitable in the mobile space.

Kojima should be 1st party if possible due to his history with PS.

Of course they may not be able to get all or any of them depending on if they want to sell or how much they are asking..... certain companies may ask an unreasonable amount.

I don't think any large publishers will be selling soon and many of them are massively diminished in value. EA is massively dependent on FIfa, Madden and Battlefield, TakeTwo is similar with NBA2K and their R* games and Ubisoft is thinking of moving to free to play. They are massively expensive to buy and have very limited value.

There are some weird things going on at Sony right now.... Demon Slayer the game was licensed by Aniplex, which is owned by Sony but the game was published by Sega and is going to be on Xbox.........for all the integration and 'One Sony' they do themselves very little favor.
Also it makes no sense to pursue cloud gaming if the competition benefits from its parent company owning the infrastructure and you have to pay for the same thing. They should just focus on hardware....their key competency.

For me, things are way too weird....it's like Sony are trying to throw things so Xbox can gain some ground. If Jim Ryan truly is this incompetent, that is quite impressive to me.

Dunno if any of that makes sense, I'm tired and writing in a bit of a haze.
No I get what you mean, too many times I've thought that Sony are needlessly fucking-up for one reason or another, as if trying to let MS catch-up, as though there's some kind of agreement between the two going-on.

We keep hearing about rumors of what Sony's got in the back, but they don't announce none of it. Realistically, I can't see any reason why Sony can't shoot for the moon and be in a position to offer everything MS does, plus the blockbuster AAA games they're known for. I mean, PSNow has way more games that GP does, and you never hear a peep about it. Weather it's a lack of marketing or other poor decisions... Like... Why abandon all the forward moves they made with Gaikai and OnLive purchases to literally walk onto MS's Azure server backend and then do nothing to promote PSNow properly in the face of XB's GP+BC one-two punch?
 
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SenjutsuSage

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"Enough internal studios" is pretty subjective aspect. Weren't there many PS fans who claimed that Sony needs to fight back and aquire Sega, Square or Capcom?

Microsoft didn't needed to buy Bethesda either. Before Bethesda they had 15 studios which is (shock) more then Sony has currently. And of course they are rapidly expanding their studios (Playground, NT, inXile etc.)

Also, you can't compare Bethesda purchase to Insomniac. Insomniac didn't have any IP's worth of value which is driving cost down. Microsoft didn't just bought Bethesda. They bought rights to IP's like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom, Quake and many others
Microsoft is actually about to buy a few more big developers, even other publishers if what Jez and some others suggest is true. And it's apparently happening fairly soon.
 

Craig of War

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Sony going into an arms race with Microsoft is like Japan going into an Arms Race with the United States it won't end well for Sony or Japan. Microsoft and United States just has too much money. It as simple as that really. Now on the other hand Playstation going into an arms race with Xbox is fair game.
 

photogaz

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Has Microsoft actually confirmed all future Bathesda games will be Xbox exclusive? I can't find anything concrete. In March it was going to be a case by case basis. What's the status now?
 

reksveks

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Has Microsoft actually confirmed all future Bathesda games will be Xbox exclusive? I can't find anything concrete. In March it was going to be a case by case basis. What's the status now?
They are giving themselves leeway but for at least the non-MMO's, it is 'All platforms with Gamepass' is the latest wording
 
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FranXico

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Microsoft would find this harder since they have over 55 Billion in debt, which needs to be paid down at the specified period, necessitating them to keep a lot of their cash on hand for those obligations.
Microsoft is one of those companies that get special treatment. They could build up a trillion in debt, banks will never tell them no.

Hope to be wrong.
 
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In terms of companies that could really do with some friendly suppor from a first party, Nippon Ichi Software are a company that have been struggling over the past few years. They have a pretty regular and high quality output of software but they've had to unload a lot of stock over the past decade due to them simply not making enough money with their titles.
They produce some really quality games but many of them almost intentionally fly in the face of what's known to make money these days. They could be an interesting acquisition for a first party but after that it would be a very fine line of changing what they do and not changing what they do. As a developer they've long moved away from the Xbox platform but they do occasionally still publish safer games on it such as R-Type Final 2 but before that it was 2019 that they last published an Xbox game.
I'm not sure if it could happen or even if they could diversify more into the more traditional JPRG field.
 

Nautilus

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Same bullshit when people say that Sony and MS are not competing with Nintendo.

They are all narratives in order to make people feel better.
 

Goalus

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So you think Microsoft bought Zenimax cause they were pissed at Sony for time exclusives. I swear some of the posters here make it seem like a full on battle ground with Microsoft like Phil has a grin on his face and orders purchases based on Sony time exclusives.
If I were in Phil's position, this is exactly what I would do. Maybe it's a good thing I am not in Phil's position.
 
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Bryank75

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Sony going into an arms race with Microsoft is like Japan going into an Arms Race with the United States it won't end well for Sony or Japan. Microsoft and United States just has too much money. It as simple as that really. Now on the other hand Playstation going into an arms race with Xbox is fair game.

The thing is.... if Hermen Hulst keeps lying to himself and saying there is no arms race and there is no industry consolidation going on..... he is just standing on the sidelines, he can't even place.

It's the most moronic thing ever.

I mean, what does he think will happen?

They have plenty of money and strong relationships to lockdown at least most of the big Japanese companies, then some big international publishers are too big for MSFT and others won't sell. So if they played the game right, they'd come out golden.
But the current leadership are losers...putting games on PC was a loser move. Not responding in kind to Zenimax was a loser move. Their communication is crap.

It's just their studios and Cerny keeping PlayStation at the top.
 
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reksveks

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People don't seem to understand that the 2 trillion belongs to investors, not the company. The 2 trillion has no real bearing on their day to day business, only stockholders made money from the price going up.
We do understand that number is the market cap of Microsoft but 2 trillion means that if you as a company want to raise money then banks are likely to give you a better rate or deal.
 

Bryank75

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We do understand that number is the market cap of Microsoft but 2 trillion means that if you as a company want to raise money then banks are likely to give you a better rate or deal.

You don't raise debt through a bank when you're a company. Jesus.

Not in the sense of them being a customer and asking for money.... doesn't work like that.
 
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SSfox

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They aren't acquiring studios in ways that are abnormal to them. Yall act like Sony never acquire studios before, until MS bought Zenimax\Bethesda. Put the weed down.
This. The only abnormal acquirement from sony is the Nixxes studio, obviously made for porting playstation games on PC, been secretly the dream of Hermen Hulst the PC fanboy since he joined Sony years ago.
 
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They aren't acquiring studios in ways that are abnormal to them. Yall act like Sony never acquire studios before, until MS bought Zenimax\Bethesda. Put the weed down.
Exactly, bringing in Housemarque was very reminiscent of the Insomniac acquisition, pulling the trigger on a studio they've worked with for a long time.

Whereas Nixxes seems to be inline with what PlayStation have been talking about for a few years now, plans to bring more of their first party titles to the PC.
 
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Bryank75

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They should be in an arms race. The PS5 is a steaming turd and their censors are on a crusade against any game that doesn't feature a manjawed special snowflake member of the progressive stack. There's no reason to own either new console right now.

Apart from a few games on PS5 and a few QOL things.... I kinda agree with you.
The loading and FPS are nice for instance.

But the fact that they are putting games on PC makes it feel like a bit of a waste, the lack of updates on the UI, the lack of exciting acquisitions or head-turning game announcements...
The poor communication and the increase in prices across the board without really earning them..... games being 80 euro, controllers being 75 euro and then looking across to see some of the same games being free* on Xbox.

They poisoned the one advantage they had by increasing prices and putting exclusives on PC.

PlayStation don't listen anymore, they don't know who their fans are. They have no strategy except short-term profits.
 

SenjutsuSage

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Has Microsoft actually confirmed all future Bathesda games will be Xbox exclusive? I can't find anything concrete. In March it was going to be a case by case basis. What's the status now?

Elder Scrolls 6 will be exclusive, Starfield will be exclusive. Redfall is exclusive. These are 3 of the biggest games coming in the upcoming years from some of their biggest studios.

If these are going to be exclusive, you know the rest will be also such as the next Doom or Wolfenstein etc. The one hope remaining for PS5 is that Indiana Jones game by MachineGames. Maybe Disney wants it multi-platform, but I have a strong feeling that too will end up being exclusive as well. Perhaps future MMOs will be the only ones that release to PS5.

And with Redfall, which can be played alone, but is clearly co-op multiplayer focused, that's a game that you would have expected to be a multi-platform release, but it isn't. Bethesda is only going to support existing releases and the new releases contracted, such as Deathloop and Ghostwire: Tokyo. All exclusives after that unless there are other deals we don't know about. Bethesda and all their studios and IP are xbox console exclusive going forward.
 

Bryank75

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Elder Scrolls 6 will be exclusive, Starfield will be exclusive. Redfall is exclusive. These are 3 of the biggest games coming in the upcoming years from some of their biggest studios.

If these are going to be exclusive, you know the rest will be also such as the next Doom or Wolfenstein etc. The one hope remaining for PS5 is that Indiana Jones game by MachineGames. Maybe Disney wants it multi-platform, but I have a strong feeling that too will end up being exclusive as well. Perhaps future MMOs will be the only ones that release to PS5.

And with Redfall, which can be played alone, but is clearly co-op multiplayer focused, that's a game that you would have expected to be a multi-platform release, but it isn't. Bethesda is only going to support existing releases and the new releases contracted, such as Deathloop and Ghostwire: Tokyo. All exclusives after that unless there are other deals we don't know about. Bethesda and all their studios and IP are xbox console exclusive going forward.

Elderscrolls is about 10 years away. LOL

We don't even know if there will be an Xbox console then.
 

SenjutsuSage

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Elderscrolls is about 10 years away. LOL

We don't even know if there will be an Xbox console then.


I'm sure you desperately wish that were true, but sorry to break the bad news to you. Xbox isn't going anywhere.

Microsoft has already confirmed the next gen xbox consoles are already being made.


“Cloud is key to our hardware and Game Pass roadmaps, but no one should think we’re slowing down on our core console engineering. In fact, we’re accelerating it.

We’re already hard at work on new hardware and platforms, some of which won’t come to light for years. But even as we build for the future, we’re focused on extending the Xbox experience to more devices today so we can reach more people.”


And Elder Scrolls 10 years away you say? I suspect 4-5 years. 6 at most. I strongly believe we will be seeing the release of the next Elder Scrolls within 4-5 years of the release of Starfield. Bethesda will have experience under their belt with the next gen Creation 2 Engine as a result of Starfield. Tie that together with Microsoft's help and resources, the turnaround for Elder Scrolls will be much quicker than you might otherwise think after a big release such as Starfield.
 

Dabaus

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Just read where grubb said he heard “rumblings of a western company investing heavily in a Japanese one.” That and these WB studio rumors. I doubt ALL of these are true but damn Sony, how can you be this asleep at the wheel?
They could live without a few of those wb games but Japanese developers? Time to read the room Sony.

Edit: What’s even sonys long term plan here? Watch as MS and ten cent gobble up the industry and sit on the sidelines scooping up extremely small dev studios? Like how do you go to complete domination to just watching every one around you make moves?
 
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Just read where grubb said he heard “rumblings of a western company investing heavily in a Japanese one.” That and these WB studio rumors. I doubt ALL of these are true but damn Sony, how can you be this asleep at the wheel?
They could live without a few of those wb games but Japanese developers? Time to read the room Sony.

Edit: What’s even sonys long term plan here? Watch as MS and ten cent gobble up the industry and sit on the sidelines scooping up extremely small dev studios? Like how do you go to complete domination to just watching every one around you make moves?

Honestly this just seems like a bunch of fanboys predicting playstations doom. It's happened with every single generation but Sony usually fights back with quality games and by selling a ton of systems.

I think it's pretty obvious that PlayStation is here to stay and we should expect some pretty good games in the future from them.
 

Dolomite

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Name me one exclusive Microsoft has released since the launch of the XSX.
None! Can't think of a single one 🤷‍♂️
And was never my point fam

Sony not being able to afford any 7.5 Billion purchases was my stance 2 weeks ago and everyone is so upset about it we're still deflecting today😂😂
 
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