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Sony further invests in Epic Games

johntown

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Luke Skywalker Reaction GIF
 

Thirty7ven

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Why is Sony investing so much money on EPIC? Doesn’t make much sense.
 

rickybooby87

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Beyond marketing, I'm curious as to the tangible benefits this heavy of an investment brings to Playstation consumers.

I know that Unreal has applications to movies and such, although that seems beyond the scope of gaming discussion. Having tech demos done on your console is nice and all but will this result in any meaningful content? I have my doubts.

It will result in meaningful content as the industry moves from UE4 > UE5 for game development, the fact that there was no LOD as movie quality assets straight out of 3D modelling apps are basically streamed in real time. Imagine not having to allocate development budget for the mundane and tedious task creating LODs for assets and "loading corridors/sight barriers" to allow enough time for the intended texture/assets to pop in without being noticed by the player.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Fortnite, Rocket League, Unreal Engine 5.... ??

What's confusing?

Those games already existed and U5 is multiplatform. 450 million is quite a bit of money, and it’s hard to see the pay off.
 

onesvenus

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Microsoft doesn’t really do investments, they rather buy out the company, and I expect in the coming years most of MS studios will transition to id Tech.
I think idTech is quite limited in scope compared with a multi-purpose engine like UE

I wonder if idTech will be retooled/built upon to have a become an engine that can be used for more types of games internally. I have little knowledge on the feasibility of such a thing, but on paper it seems like a no-brainer; idTech is one of the best engines out there right now, and it'd end the reliance on Epic.
I think one of the things that makes idTech great is it being very focused on a type of game. Doing an engine to support multiple types of games is no small task
 

Foorbits

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Those games already existed and U5 is multiplatform. 450 million is quite a bit of money, and it’s hard to see the pay off.
Getting a tighter, more official relationship with a company that holds those popular IPs and UE5 is worth the pay off. It could lead to a number of things from marketing to UE5 features to movies/tv.
 

Andodalf

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I wouldn't be surprised if all the Sony bought companies (i.e. ND, SSM, GG, etc..) will adopt UE in the future for all of their games. That would make total sense with the porting to PC platforms happening now. We might be looking at day and date PC releases with PS next-generation (i.e. PS6+).

Id be shocked if ND did, they're very proud of their in house tech.

Maybe for online stuff like factions
 

SlimySnake

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Sigh. They have a billion dollars to invest in a company that has fuck all to do with exclusives, but are penny pinching with first party studios like Japan Studios and Sony Bend.

edit: nevermind, its another $200 million. the rest of the 1 billion are from other investment firms. whatever. id rather those $200 million go towards rebuilding their fledgling first party studios.
 
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Shanomatic

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There is no doubt that them choosing PS5 as the first console to show of UE5 on isn't a sign of strong support and optimization foe UE on PS5
Do you think Epic optimizes UE5 specifically/more so for the PS5? Because that to me would seem like a baffling decision for a game engine used across multiple developers for multiple platforms.

Unless you mean specific game’s would be better optimized for the PS5? Because I don’t see the connection between that and investment in Epic.
 
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splattered

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Complete waste of money. If they have to spend half a billion dollars just to ensure UE5 works well on PS5 then there is either something wrong with UE5 or the PS5's performance that it requires additional attention. If they are investing half a billion dollars for super SSD asset streaming technology for the PS5 that is also a waste of money considering no PS games really use UE. The ONLY way this makes sense is if Sony studios all of a sudden ALL convert to UE5 so the system has an advantage across the board. Which will most likely never happen. Throwing money down the toilet is a more likely outcome here.
 

Foorbits

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Do you think Epic optimizes UE5 specifically/more so for the PS5? Because that to me would seem like a baffling decision for a game engine used across multiple developers for multiple platforms.

Unless you mean specific game’s would be better optimized for the PS5? Because I don’t see the connection between that and investment in Epic.
The key would be to build in easy to use features for the PS5 at the engine level. DualSense, SSD, etc. It's not any better or less than other platforms it's merely the ability to easily tap PS5's unique features easily.
 

Shanomatic

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I think one of the things that makes idTech great is it being very focused on a type of game. Doing an engine to support multiple types of games is no small task
Oh definitely, I didn’t mean to imply it would be any small task, but I have to imagine that, even if not with idTech, Microsoft is interested in developing their own in house engines for their games.

Now that I think about it, you can already kinda see that happening; isn’t Playground using a custom engine for Fable?
 
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splattered

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Epic Games is going to make a ton of money this generation. A very wise financial decision by Sony.

But come on, Sony, open up your wallets for PlayStation Studios as well.

Epic lost like 400 million the last two years so this (almost) makes up for that loss...
 

hlm666

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Sigh. They have a billion dollars to invest in a company that has fuck all to do with exclusives, but are penny pinching with first party studios like Japan Studios and Sony Bend.
They put another 200 million in (so 450 total now)

Epic got 1 billion total including a bunch of other investors

"Other investment partners include Appaloosa, Baillie Gifford, Fidelity Management & Research Company LLC, GIC, funds and accounts advised by T. Rowe Price Associates, Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan Board, funds and accounts managed by BlackRock, Park West, KKR, AllianceBernstein, Altimeter, Franklin Templeton and Luxor Capital."
 
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Guilty_AI

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Sigh. They have a billion dollars to invest in a company that has fuck all to do with exclusives, but are penny pinching with first party studios like Japan Studios and Sony Bend.
Complete waste of money. If they have to spend half a billion dollars just to ensure UE5 works well on PS5 then there is either something wrong with UE5 or the PS5's performance that it requires additional attention. If they are investing half a billion dollars for super SSD asset streaming technology for the PS5 that is also a waste of money considering no PS games really use UE. The ONLY way this makes sense is if Sony studios all of a sudden ALL convert to UE5 so the system has an advantage across the board. Which will most likely never happen. Throwing money down the toilet is a more likely outcome here.
There are other uses for UE besides games. Aren't they trying to convert all those franchises in movies, series and such? UE could be used for those too.
 

Concern

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Hey whatever works for them. The initial 250 million got plenty people buying the who "ue5 can't work well on pc or Xbox" lol
 
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Foorbits

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There are other uses for UE besides games. Aren't they trying to convert all those franchises in movies, series and such? UE could be used for those too.
Not just UE.

There will be a Rocket League and Fortnite movie someday. This could help secure Sony Pictures to get that deal.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Sigh. They have a billion dollars to invest in a company that has fuck all to do with exclusives, but are penny pinching with first party studios like Japan Studios and Sony Bend.

Yeah it's hard to see Sony throwing money around at anime, music, and now 450 million in on EPIC... while on the flipside acting like bean counters with PlayStation studios.

Getting a tighter, more official relationship with a company that holds those popular IPs and UE5 is worth the pay off. It could lead to a number of things from marketing to UE5 features to movies/tv.

You don't invest 450 million into a business just so you can be friends. Which is why I'm wondering what's in the horizon that makes Sony think they will get more out of EPIC than everybody else. Tencent owns 40% of EPIC to boot, so what is Sony investing a ton of money for? Fucking hell. They make tools for everybody.
 
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Heisenberg007

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Do you think Epic optimizes UE5 specifically/more so for the PS5? Because that to me would seem like a baffling decision for a game engine used across multiple developers for multiple platforms.

Unless you mean specific game’s would be better optimized for the PS5? Because I don’t see the connection between that and investment in Epic.
This might be the case, but not in any negative way. Epic engineers said that they took inspiration from the PS5 SSD and I/O designs and rewrote UE5 code to take better advantage of it.

My guess is that UE5 and PS5 were being developed at roughly the same time. Mark Cerny visits almost all developers when seeking feedback. He must have talked to Epic engineers and developers as well. Technologies were exchanged, and Epic decided that the I/O solution is going to play a crucial role in the future, and asked Sony if they could share some insights that Epic could use in their engine.

Sony must have agreed; Epic rewrote parts of UE5 so it could leverage I/O more effectively; and in exchange, Sony got a chance to invest in Epic.
 

BeardGawd

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I wonder if idTech will be retooled/built upon to have a become an engine that can be used for more types of games internally. I have little knowledge on the feasibility of such a thing, but on paper it seems like a no-brainer; idTech is one of the best engines out there right now, and it'd end the reliance on Epic.
But then MS loses any leverage with Epic if they are no longer one of Unreal Engine's largest customers. And how are you determining idTech is one of the best engines out there? Versatility is key.
 
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Snake29

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This isn't SIE, this is Sony as a whole. I suspect their movie division is the primary driver for this. Unreal Engine for movies in the future?

That future is now. The Mandelorian is created in UE, and Sony is also using UE for movies. Sony Pictures aquired Nurilize in 2019:


Glenn Gainor, head of physical production for Screen Gems and President of Sony Innovation Studios, commented: “As a creative entertainment company built on a foundation of technology, every day we seek to push the boundaries in how we tell great stories. The software technology developed by Nurulize, called Atom View, enables us to integrate the highest-quality volumetric data capture with traditional workflows for film, television, and gaming, ushering a new method of content creation – the blending of the digital and the real –in truly innovative ways.”



 
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Shanomatic

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This might be the case, but not in any negative way. Epic engineers said that they took inspiration from the PS5 SSD and I/O designs and rewrote UE5 code to take better advantage of it.

My guess is that UE5 and PS5 were being developed at roughly the same time. Mark Cerny visits almost all developers when seeking feedback. He must have talked to Epic engineers and developers as well. Technologies were exchanged, and Epic decided that the I/O solution is going to play a crucial role in the future, and asked Sony if they could share some insights that Epic could use in their engine.

Sony must have agreed; Epic rewrote parts of UE5 so it could leverage I/O more effectively; and in exchange, Sony got a chance to invest in Epic.
I suppose I'm just skeptical as to how much truth there is to that narrative. Not that I think Epic or Sony are lying per se, just that whether it will have the impact the claim it will, or that these features will be something unique to the PS5. Time will tell I suppose.
 

SlimySnake

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Yeah it's hard to see Sony throwing money around at anime, music, and now 450 million in on EPIC... while on the flipside acting like bean counters with PlayStation studios.
I mean that's what people here dont understand. I have zero problems with Sony spending billions investing in other things, but when they go and effectively shutdown Sony Japan, and refuse to invest in Kojima's and Sony Bends games because they didnt sell well, it just rubs me the wrong way. And now we can add Bluepoint to the list.

I am just hoping this is a bad dream, and sony shows up at E3 with games from Bluepoint, KojiPro and Sony Bend. If they have $450 million to waste just for a 2% stake in a company like Epic, they should have money to greenlight games from those studios.
 
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Business

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Why is Sony investing so much money on EPIC? Doesn’t make much sense.

It‘s a company that makes a leading product for the entertainment business, which happens to be where Sony is big time. The question is rather why wouldn‘t they invest... If they had more money they would surely buy more.
 

Thirty7ven

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It‘s a company that makes a leading product for the entertainment business, which happens to be where Sony is big time. The question is rather why wouldn‘t they invest... If they had more money they would surely buy more.

So what, is Sony the only company in entertainment? Why isn't everybody investing on EPIC then?

I just don't see how spending 450 million on a company of which 40% is owned by Tencent, and whose products are available on every platform, makes sense by itself. Just buy a fucking license.
 
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MrSarcastic

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As an expert of epic businesses and investment opportunities, the only thing I can say is: "Fuck of Jim Ryan?"
 

Heisenberg007

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I suppose I'm just skeptical as to how much truth there is to that narrative. Not that I think Epic or Sony are lying per se, just that whether it will have the impact the claim it will, or that these features will be something unique to the PS5. Time will tell I suppose.
The features they advertised? No, they aren't unique to the PS5 at all. XSX and PC will have them. UE5 will also run on mobile devices.

However, there is one thing that I'm interested in: the feature Nanite depends on data streaming. Virtualized geometry that scales up and down based on the available data pipeline. In theory, if a UE5 game is sending a lot of data (think 6-7GB/s), theoretically, it may run at a higher graphical fidelity on PS5 than XSX. Again, it's all theoretical right now, but gun to my head, I'd bet on PS5 leveraging UE5 more effectively than XSX because of its focus on data streaming and I/O, especially when virtualized geometry comes into play.

Besides, we have already seen 8K megascans being streamed and rendered perfectly fine in the UE5 demo on the PS5 hardware.

P.S. For reference, Demon's Souls was sending 4 Gb/s data to maintain that level of graphical fidelity, as confirmed by the developers (BluePoint) in a Digital Foundry interview.
 

Bryank75

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Why would Sony be doing this when they don't really use Unreal Engine? Someone pls explain.
Because now they are in on the ground floor, when there is an IPO 1 billion will turn into several times that...

Tencent has 40% or something like that and were in earlier so got it cheaper, so I doubt Sony is looking for a large stake but I could be wrong.

It also helps stop them getting locked out of Unreal and Fortnite.
 

Dabaus

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I dont see why they dont invest in Sqaure Enix and Capcom, like i dont mean exclusive game deals, I mean stock purchases. If sony invested in Sqaure, Capcom, and From Softwares parents company (Im aware of the capital alliance) theyd be pretty future proof in my opinion.
 
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Bryank75

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More Sony exclusive games day one on EGS. Nice.
Probably the other way around.... the money came from Sony.

Epic funded a load of games recently, like Gen design, Remedy x 2 and others.... so it will probably be like the Godfall deal but hopefully with better games.
 

lyan

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So what, is Sony the only company in entertainment? Why isn't everybody investing on EPIC then?

I just don't see how spending 450 million on a company of which 40% is owned by Tencent, and whose products are available on every platform, makes sense by itself. Just buy a fucking license.
Investing doesn't mean give away, there should be some sort of repayment/dividend/shares arrangement.
 

Neo Blaster

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Why would Sony be doing this when they don't really use Unreal Engine? Someone pls explain.
But third parties use, if Sony can make an agreement with Epic to make UE5 fully optimized to PS5, they can bring more games to it in less time.
 

jakinov

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So they can afford this shit but close the Ps3/Psvita stores?

Cheers Sony.
Someone could “afford” to buy a used car but might rather spend that money in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. Their money is finite just because they have the money doesn’t mean they are going to waste it on depreciating assets.

it’s also likely not a marketing deal like the other person is saying. Epic asking companies for money not just Sony in exchange for equity not in exchange for marketing.
 

Bryank75

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I dont see why they dont invest in Sqaure Enix and Capcom, like i dont mean exclusive game deals, I mean stock purchases. If sony invested in Sqaure, Capcom, and From Softwares parents company (Im aware of the capital alliance).
Yeah, they have a few percent of Kadokawa but you're right...they should have sizable investments in some of those companies. Or a controlling stake in one would be great.
 

fallingdove

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Why is Sony investing so much money on EPIC? Doesn’t make much sense.

Unreal Engine is the most commonly used development engine. I could see these investments being made to optimize the engine for playstation platforms. Then there is timed exclusivity on Epic games. Both of these things would severely impact Xbox, their "most powerful console" narrative, and their over-reliance on 3rd party production.
 
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