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Sony didn’t pay for Metal Gear Solid 4 exclusivity ; Kojima did not want to make the port for Xbox 360

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Tell me you didn't even click the link without telling me you didn't even click the link. If you had clicked the link you would have seen the different breakdowns, including the completionist section. The pages I linked have a ton of data you could look at, and none of it is difficult to interpret. Also, the fastest speedrun for both games is just under 20 hours for Final Fantasy XIII and just under 4 hours for Final Fantasy XIII-2. Final Fantasy XIII-2 is a shorter game, and I can find plenty of corroborating claims.

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Final Fantasy XIII-2 is the better game, but it is 100% a shorter game. Provide me some source that disproves me if you'd like, but I can find a lot of corroborating claims and statistics to support the claims that Final Fantasy XIII is the longer game. This goes for speed runs and completionists.



How they implement cut scenes (pre-rendered vs. in-egine) isn't optimization. It's a design choice. The initial game was made for the PS3 and then ported to the Xbox 360. The travesty here wasn't how large the PS3 version was. It was that Microsoft didn't want to go with a blu-ray drive and pay Sony royalties on the drives and discs for their games. If the Xbox 360 had used blu-ray discs Final Fantasy XIII would have flawlessly worked on the Xbox 360. Instead, Sony was forced to whittle down their pristine PS3 version to something that would fit on multiple discs that were each around a tenth of the size of the PS3 blu-ray disc. The end result was a game that played in a worse resolution and with more artifacts than its blu-ray counterpart.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 was a smaller game (again, the facts are all there), and moving to in-engine cut scenes drastically reduced the file size. These two factors, combined with a more agressive compression method, are the reason Final Fantasy XIII-2 fit on a single disc, and even then it just barely fit. In 2011 the XGD3 format was introduced that increased the usable space on the DVD disc to 8.3 GB, and Final Fantasy XIII-2 was a total of 7.8 GB. Had this game came out in 2009 (like Final Fantasy XIII) it would have needed two discs still.

All this is you trying to prop up a wrong source and people who think the main story is not the main story.

The "main story" (going by Squares own words) in the game takes longer than FFXIII it's clear you never actually played XIII-2 or even tried to look at videos of it, the "speedrun" is also not for the mainstory but for the fake out ending, one of many. that has nothing to do with the main story.

All this to defend Square Enix having the optimization skills of a blind alcoholic back in 2009 lol. There's more to explore in FFXIII-2, there is more content in FFXIII-2 (which you said there wasn't which anyone who played both will laugh at,) all you did in XIII is run down hallways, have a somewhat bland grand pulse middle section which after you passed that to continue the story turned into more hallways. I don't see why you would think XIII has more content. You didn't even do anything at the theme park. XIII-2 actually HAS a theme park with things to do.

Yes it is optimization, there are better looking games with cutscenes on the PS3 than FFXIII that don't take up nearly as much space, what other possible explanation is there? Even the 360 version version is substantially less and is only moderately compressed and there's still about 3GBS of unused space. It's not, even with the cutscenes, a 39.5GB PS3 game, that's just a fact. Even people who broke down the file size of FFXIII said the size is bloated.

FFXIII-3 itself also was unoptimized and used similar engine and other tools as FFXIII, so even that game could have been shrunken down less and this is also obvious looking at other PS3 games, but I understand given the money spend on them Square would want to use them again instead of starting from scratch.

It's really just a case of Square Enix not being ready for next gen. Ask yourself this simple question, do you really believe there's enough in FFXIII to be bigger than MGS4? No.

This is very well known..... The sole reason it is exclusive is because of him. I don't understand why this info is "news"

And the excuse to not release it on Xbox 360 is a joke, the game install every act on PS3 it would be even quicker to change discs every act on Xbox that waiting 15 min installing each chapter, so yeah he is a fanboy.

I heard MGS4 rumors that the super slim makes the install times faster but I'm not going to by that cheap model and I can't find anyone who will test it.
 

IFireflyl

Member
All this is you trying to prop up a wrong source and people who think the main story is not the main story.

Again, the completionist time (which means doing 100% of everything in the game and includes unlocking the secret ending in Final Fantasy XIII-2) takes much longer on Final Fantasy XIII than it does on Final Fantasy XIII-2. Out of 209 submitted results the average time to get EVERYTHING in the game accomplished for Final Fantasy XIII-2 was 71 hours. Compare that to Final Fantasy XIII where out of 282 submitted results the average time to get EVERYTHING in the the game accomplished was 105 hours. The fastest time to complete 100% of both games was 76 hours and 56 minutes for Final Fantasy XIII, and 53 hours and 17 minutes for Final Fantasy XIII-2.

"Oh, but completionist isn't the main story!" Well good news. The source I listed before also breaks it down into Main + Extras which is the main story plus additional quests/medals/unlockables. This is what is needed to get the secret ending for Final Fantasy XIII-2. The average time it took for Final Fantasy XIII-2 is 43 hours and 46 minutes. That is still less than the average time that it took to just beat the main story for Final Fantasy XIII without doing any extra stuff. The main story alone for Final Fantasy XIII took an average of 48 hours and 11 minutes to beat. The speed run record for just the main story for Final Fantasy XIII is 34 hours. The speed run record for the main story + extras for Final Fantasy XIII-2 was 29 hours and 56 minutes. That confirms that it takes longer to beat just the main story of Final Fantasy XIII without doing any extras than it does to beat Final Fantasy XIII-2 and unlock its secret ending.

This is conclusive evidence that the main story for Final Fantasy XIII is longer than the main story for Final Fantasy XIII-2. Not to mention that you're the only person I have ever found to say that the main story for Final Fantasy XIII-2 is longer than it was for Final Fantasy XIII. You have provided no evidence to support your claim, and you're ignoring everything I have supplied that is spitting in your face.

The "main story" (going by Squares own words) in the game takes longer than FFXIII it's clear you never actually played XIII-2 or even tried to look at videos of it, the "speedrun" is also not for the mainstory but for the fake out ending, one of many. that has nothing to do with the main story.



Yeah, I have totally NEVER played Final Fantasy XIII-2. My play through for Final Fantasy games is astronomical. I know more than you do. Sit down.

All this to defend Square Enix having the optimization skills of a blind alcoholic back in 2009 lol. There's more to explore in FFXIII-2, there is more content in FFXIII-2 (which you said there wasn't which anyone who played both will laugh at,) all you did in XIII is run down hallways, have a somewhat bland grand pulse middle section which after you passed that to continue the story turned into more hallways. I don't see why you would think XIII has more content. You didn't even do anything at the theme park. XIII-2 actually HAS a theme park with things to do.

Yes it is optimization, there are better looking games with cutscenes on the PS3 than FFXIII that don't take up nearly as much space, what other possible explanation is there? Even the 360 version version is substantially less and is only moderately compressed and there's still about 3GBS of unused space. It's not, even with the cutscenes, a 39.5GB PS3 game, that's just a fact. Even people who broke down the file size of FFXIII said the size is bloated.

FFXIII-3 itself also was unoptimized and used similar engine and other tools as FFXIII, so even that game could have been shrunken down less and this is also obvious looking at other PS3 games, but I understand given the money spend on them Square would want to use them again instead of starting from scratch.

I wasn't defended Square Enix's optimization. I was stating that the reason for the game not fitting onto a single disc wasn't due to optimization, and I proved to you that even Final Fantasy XIII-2 would have been a multi-disc game if it had come out a year earlier. You casually ignored that though.

It's really just a case of Square Enix not being ready for next gen. Ask yourself this simple question, do you really believe there's enough in FFXIII to be bigger than MGS4? No.

Why would I think that? We already know the reason that the game was so large was due to the pre-rendered cut scenes. This question is pointless, and I don't even know what you're arguing about.
 
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Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Yeah, I have totally NEVER played Final Fantasy XIII-2. My play through for Final Fantasy games is astronomical. I know more than you do. Sit down.

But you still make such a ridiculous claim that FFXIII has more content when that's objectively false? Even someone who never played the game can look at a guide and see there's more to do.

This is conclusive evidence that the main story for Final Fantasy XIII is longer than the main story for Final Fantasy XIII-2. Not to mention that you're the only person I have ever found to say that the main story for Final Fantasy XIII-2 is longer than it was for Final Fantasy XIII. You have provided no evidence to support your claim, and you're ignoring everything I have supplied that is spitting in your face.

You've provided no evidence to support your claim. You just posted a wall of text trying to come up with some excuse to make FFXIII seem longer but it's not. There is no "secret ending" the only secret ending, is the DLC. Squares real ending for the game, is the ending you get when you unlock all the gates, not extra stuff, no chocobo races (which FFXIII does not have), not side quests, just the gates, that's the real ending intended, that's the main ending for the game you are supposed to get that goes into the next sequel.

It takes longer to beat the main game than FFXIII, you're resistance to this is strange, even though you have already state you believe XIII-2 is the better game, yet you keep trying to come up with an excuse to downplay it compared to the hallway simulator, even going as far as saying it had more content, yet you mostly can't do anything else in FFXIII but go down hallways, the only time you can do anything else is the optional open area (outside the mandatory level grind to go forward) with the equally optional side quests. There are no towns or activities, you just run in a direction.

I wasn't defended Square Enix's optimization. I was stating that the reason for the game not fitting onto a single disc wasn't due to optimization, and I proved to you that even Final Fantasy XIII-2 would have been a multi-disc game if it had come out a year earlier. You casually ignored that though.

Except by definition that's the problem. Optimizations issues is why the size is bloated, I have no idea why you can't understand this. you keep pretending that including the cutscenes within the game doesn't involve optimization when it does, there are also better looking games than FFXIII on the PS3 with a ton of uncompressed assets, like MGS4.

You know, the game I asked you about before, which you casually avoided.

You also casually avoided the fact that FFXIII on 3 360's discs had 3GB of unused data, which rebukes your theory about FFXIII not being on a single disc without the cutscenes a year earlier. Which also deals with you casually avoiding the fact the game engine itself isn't optimized, Square even talked about the difficulties of developing for next gen, they used a lot of the same development material for all 3 FFXIII games.

When it comes down to it you're just defending FFXIII and Square EniX not being ready for next gen at the time and I don't know why. You are trying to make claims such as FFXIII-2 wouldn't fit on a single disc if it released on 360 a year earlier, while ignoring the excess disc space from the first game, and the fact the engine wasn't optimized. You can't ignore this stuff.

The whole point I was making, was that most BR games during the 360/ps3 years could fit on a *GB or 10GB DVD, and BR wasn't needed and was seen as an inconvenience since many games required installation. I said most games that didn't need it were bloated or unoptimized, and FFXIII is an example of a game that was bloated, even more than MGS4, with an unoptimized engine, due to difficulties of switching to more complex graphics and HD.

Square themselves admitted they were having problems transitioning.
 
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IFireflyl

Member

You're wrong, and I'm over this. I already said my piece. Using pre-rendered cut scenes instead of in-engine cut scenes isn't "optimization". It's a design choice. Continue to live in the fantasy world inside of your head. I'm not responding to this stupidity any longer.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Using pre-rendered cut scenes instead of in-engine cut scenes isn't "optimization". It's a design choice.

You don't understand, people optimize media all the time. Better optimization makes the file sizes more manageable or the frame rates better etc, so you keep saying it's not optimization yet it is. You avoid when I mentioned there are games with cutscenes on the PS3 that don't have the same bloat, why?

You also barely responded to any legitimate criticism to your claims, but if you want to throw insults at me instead of addressing valid criticism of some of your claims like "FXIII has more content than XIII-2" then well.
 
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