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Sony didn’t pay for Metal Gear Solid 4 exclusivity ; Kojima did not want to make the port for Xbox 360

Because Konami.
You can't even play mgs hd collection on pc or ps4. Hell if you want to play on pc there is mgs1 and 2 on steam/gog (its the original versions not the hd collection ver), but no mgs3 and nothing on ps4/5. The whole thing plus peacewalker is locked on ps3/vita and nothing we can do about it, sadly.

Konami is horrible anymore. They have all my favorite series and aren't making anything or porting anything.
Suikoden 1-5 + tactics
Castlevania series (well they did do sotn but not on switch, the collection and gba games did come out though).
MGS -all of it can't play on ps4/5
Silent Hill - haven't made a game since downpour on ps3, and none of them ported to ps4/5. PC has sh1,2,3, the room and homecoming, The rest require ps3 for the collection and psp or wii for shattered memories.

Retro games like Contra and lifeforce they have made collections for.

Konmai needs to port this stuff. WTF!
 
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Swift_Star

Member
so because they started to use the Solid subtitle as a main part of the franchise name going forward that makes it a completely different series?

it's pretty clear that that wasn't the original plan. they clearly only used Solid as the subtitle at first, maybe with plans to name subsequent titles after the different "Les Enfants Terribles" clones.

in an alternate timeline they might have called Metal Gear Solid 2, Metal Gear Liquid... or Metal Gear Solidus...

the name of a sequel is in big parts simply a way of marketing after all. and I bet Konami simply thought that the name Metal Gear Solid has now been solidified in the minds of players as the name of the franchise, so it was used going forward
Where is the 3 in the title of the first solid game? You’re really trying here but you’re just reaching. Take the L.
 
Why do we act like this is rare. Tons 9f Japanese games are just on PlayStation or Nintendo or both, but not on Xbox, because that isn't where their audience is.
 

01011001

Member
Where is the 3 in the title of the first solid game? You’re really trying here but you’re just reaching. Take the L.

again, naming is mostly a PR decision. where is the 6 in Halo Infinite?

why is Dynasty Warriors 8 called 真・三國無双7 in japan?
because Dynasty Warriors 1 was called "三國無双" in japan
and Dynasty Warriors 2 was called "真・三國無双", in japan they then started counting upwards from there while outside of japan they started counting from the first game.

why is Ratchet & Clank Size Matters called Ratchet & Clank 5 in japan? MARKETING :)
Ratchet & Clank Deadlocked is called, you guessed it, Ratchet & Clank 4 in Japan
 
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Swift_Star

Member
again, naming is mostly a PR decision. where is the 6 in Halo Infinite?

why is Dynasty Warriors 8 called 真・三國無双7 in japan?
because Dynasty Warriors 1 was called "三國無双" in japan
and Dynasty Warriors 2 was called "真・三國無双", in japan they then started counting upwards from there while outside of japan they started counting from the first game.

why is Ratchet & Clank Size Matters called Ratchet & Clank 5 in japan? MARKETING :)
Ratchet & Clank Deadlocked is called, you guessed it, Ratchet & Clank 4 in Japan
Where is MGS named MG3?
You:
Bobs Burgers Straws GIF
 

GHound

Member
The Wii won that gen by about 15m. There is no world where the 360 or PS3 won that gen.
Funny you should mention that as a hypothetical Wii version of MGS4 would have necessitated less discs than a hypothetical 360 version. Owing not only to the differences in the hardware leading to more technical constraints, but also the Wii's dual layer DVD capacity being a bit larger around the time of MGS4's release.
These moments we share near 14 years later bring warm feelings to my heart, GAF. I never thought this discussion would still be going on after all these years.
Celebrate In Love GIF by HBO Max

To the next 16 years. MGS4's 30th anniversary is gonna be a banger.
 
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It's puzzling from a technical pov. They could have probably fit this onto 3 discs quite easily. The story structure which naturally split the game up into separate acts would have been ideal for disc swapping. It's not like it would be the first MGS game with disc swapping either - MGS1 used two discs on PS1, and that game was much shorter than MGS4.

In an old Beyond3D thread, they concluded that about 20gb of the 30gb game size was used for audio and video. Makes sense given the intro cinematics and high quality audio (it's NOT uncompressed LPCM audio like people think - just Dolby Digital 5.1). Those would be the first candidates for some additional compression (hello Bink video). I can see Kojima not wanting to compromise even further on quality though. Then again, they did already have to compromise on everything else given the huge graphical downgrade.

Some games later in the 360's life cycle ended up requiring an HDD install (ironically enough, one of these was Metal Gear Solid V). So that functionality was there and would have made a hypothetical 360 port pretty much on par with the PS3 version, which also required installation. KojPro could just do what Rockstar would later do for GTAV - have a couple of install discs and then one main 'play' disc. The problem was that Microsoft were pimping their 360 model without an HDD for too fucking long during that generation. The Core / Arcade models shipped without one, and I believe your game had to support those gimped SKUs. It wasn't until the slim model came out in 2010 that all newly sold 360s finally had an HDD as standard. As the generation dragged along, MS later allowed games like GTAV and MGSV to ship with an HDD requirement. Perhaps all this was partly Microsoft's problem for not relaxing that rule sooner, but I kind of doubt it - I feel MGS4 would be too big of a get in the console wars to let a silly HDD rule like that get in the way. Making a simple 'HDD required' sticker on the game box would be worth it to make PS3 irrelevant.

A simpler explanation is that Kojima is just a Sony fanboy. I mean you had lines like this in the first E3 trailer:


 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
A simpler explanation is that Kojima is just a Sony fanboy. I mean you had lines like this in the first E3 trailer:

Not sure if he is. I guess it depends on whether Grubbs rumor is true or not. Like if he's a PlayStation fanboy I don't see him ever signing an exclusive deal with Xbox for example.

I guess we have to see what happens.
 
I dont think theres ever been a game made for the ps3 in mind that was ported over to 360 other then gta5, even that game was a mess on 360, ps3 was a beast of a console if someone knew how to make games on it which was barely afew, from my understanding ps3 was way different and harder to code then a 360, 360 was easier because it was close enough to a pc, so for them to port the game over would actually cost quite abit of time and money
If no game mastered the Cell chip, was the Cell chip really that good? Theoretically, maybe. realistically, no.
 
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TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
This was pretty much known, only a few was in denial about it.
 

A.Romero

Member
Considering MGS4 needs a lot of tweaks to run on an emulator today with much more powerful computers generally available I'd think it would have had required a lot of work from Konami to port to 360.

That gen was pretty different from the ones after it. Sony's custom hardware made it so third parties would almost always run better on 360 but it also allowed to first party titles to offer stuff that couldn't be easily replicated in different architectures. Would it be possible to run 360? I think yes but with some more sacrifices and not as an afterthought.

MGS4 was loved by some but the game itself went into oblivion fairly quick and it's usually remembered as one of the weakest. I have my SE and regular copies as well. I have tried to play it again but usually just drop it after the second chapter. Install stuff is too annoying and honestly the pay off is mostly the first time you play it. Gameplay is pretty good where combat is allowed (pretty much the 2 first chapters) but nothing that hasn't been beaten since then.

If I want to play a cool action game with the MGS theme I rather go for V or Rising (which apparently had a surge in PC players lately). MGS4 was all about the fanservice involved in seeing Ray fight with Rex and Solid against Ocelot fighting bare fisted. Once that was seen, replaying it is a little bit of a chore.

Still, one of the games that I remember more fondly for several reasons and definitely something that has Kojima written all over it.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
So what about some PS5/XSX re-release, like the whole package with MGS > MGS5 for one price. Would buy collector edition. I played collection 10 years ago and I got the say, I haven't forget anything from it. Despite having pretty severe memory loss in 2019.

Kojima pls.
 

coffinbirth

Member
X360 had no hdd by default. It was mandated that on 360 games run off of the disc without a need for a HDD. 30GB isn't 3 discs it's 4 and even then it would be more since you need to duplicate data between them too and possibly change the structure of the game like Rage did.

Konami fell out with Kojima after MGSV which was multiplatform + PC. Nothing to do with missing out on sales.
This is false.
There are plenty of 360 games that had mandatory installs.
 
This is false.
There are plenty of 360 games that had mandatory installs.

They were mostly cross-gen games that released at the end of its life cycle though, like Destiny, MGSV, GTAV and Titanfall. By that point, MS likely stopped giving a shit about excluding the Core / Arcade model owners from playing those games.

It would have possibly been a bad look to exclude those owners before 2010. A bit like if MS came out with a game today that didn't support the Xbox Series S.
 
mgs4 is my least favorite entry in the series, but it felt pretty cool playing it on a fat ps3 back in the day (an exclusive cinematic game on sony's "premium" console).

one of the very few reasons to buy a ps3 back then if you already had an x360.
 
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Dream-Knife

Member
Sucks it's stuck on a dead platform, but the gameplay sections are so short you really wouldn't miss anything just watching a playthrough.
 

Kadve

Member
On the other hand: Hideki Kamiya also didn't want a PS3 version of Bayonetta. But Sega eventually decided to overrule him and commissioned it in the last minute anyway. Giving us the disaster that was the PS3 version.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
On the other hand: Hideki Kamiya also didn't want a PS3 version of Bayonetta. But Sega eventually decided to overrule him and commissioned it in the last minute anyway. Giving us the disaster that was the PS3 version.

I remember the PS3 version would crash for me every twenty or so minutes. Reinstalled. Patched. Even replaced my hard drive as a hail Mary (being in IT I had spares to just grab off the shelf).

No one ever believed me. People on discussion forums told me I was lying, or accused me of being a 360 fanboy - when back in those days I was far too poor to afford anything other than my PS3 slim and one game a month. No other PS3 game ever crashed more than once for me that I can recall, either.
 

coffinbirth

Member
They were mostly cross-gen games that released at the end of its life cycle though, like Destiny, MGSV, GTAV and Titanfall. By that point, MS likely stopped giving a shit about excluding the Core / Arcade model owners from playing those games.

It would have possibly been a bad look to exclude those owners before 2010. A bit like if MS came out with a game today that didn't support the Xbox Series S.
Not really...I recall Final Fantasy XIII, Rage, Battlefield 3, Burnout Paradise, Fallout 3 GotY, Borderlands GotY, Mass Effect 3, Assassins Creed 3, etc...and I'm sure sure were others prior to the cross gen games.
 

01011001

Member
On the other hand: Hideki Kamiya also didn't want a PS3 version of Bayonetta. But Sega eventually decided to overrule him and commissioned it in the last minute anyway. Giving us the disaster that was the PS3 version.

yeah Bayonetta was basically a console exclusive, tailored to specific hardware, that a Sega internal team hastily ported over... and it shows lol
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
He probably wanted to focus on a single hardware, like he had in the past.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Why do we act like this is rare. Tons 9f Japanese games are just on PlayStation or Nintendo or both, but not on Xbox, because that isn't where their audience is.

MGS4 is not your typical niche Japanese game though.

And every mainline MG game minus the first and fourth one are on Xbox now.

This is clearly a decision of it's time which has ended up causing more issues for the games preservation, nothing else.
 

Three

Member
This is false.
There are plenty of 360 games that had mandatory installs.
Not at the time. There was a mandate throughout most of the 360 gen. MS had a parity clause where they said it had to have the same content 'on-disc' meaning the kingfey suggestion of an internet download to a HDD was not an option at all either. 99% of games require no HDD.

Towards the tail end of the 360 gen though they first had "copy disc to HDD" where it wasn't game file installation but something similar to a copied iso of the disc to prevent pop in on the slow disc drive and wear on discs. Then only much later with new gen crossgen games like Battlefield 4 (2 discs), Titanfall, Evil Within, etc they opened up for devs and added support for mandatory installs, added USB pen drive support in the OS and released a new console with a drive, the xbox360 E. Kojima even released MGSV (2 discs) on xbox 360 but required an install.

Only towards the end of the gen when 360 was showing its weaknesses of DVD storage and no HDD by default did MS take measures for devs. Not when MGS4 was being developed. Devs also know that requiring a HDD would lower sales even more because a lot of 360 buyers had no HDD.

It was a mandate and pushed by the parity clause. I guess they didn't want 360s weakness of disc swapping and lack of HDD by default showing up throughout most of the gen but it was becoming increasingly difficult to convince devs who were developing for PS3, XB1/PS4 and PC at the tail end of the 360 to run of disc and they had to correct this decision they made for lower cost consoles by taking those measures.
 
Not really...I recall Final Fantasy XIII, Rage, Battlefield 3, Burnout Paradise, Fallout 3 GotY, Borderlands GotY, Mass Effect 3, Assassins Creed 3, etc...and I'm sure sure were others prior to the cross gen games.

iirc, some of those games split things like DLC and multiplayer modes onto the second disc. The main game was often still playable just from the one disc. Only Rage I think required a disc install out of those games. But that still came out in 2011, after the 360 slim model with a built-in hard drive arrived and the Core / Arcade models were retired. It was probably the start of MS being more open to the idea of HDD installs.
 

SomeGit

Member
Not at the time. There was a mandate throughout most of the 360 gen. MS had a parity clause where they said it had to have the same content 'on-disc' meaning the kingfey suggestion of an internet download to a HDD was not an option at all either. 99% of games require no HDD.

Towards the tail end of the 360 gen though they first had "copy disc to HDD" where it wasn't game file installation but something similar to a copied iso of the disc to prevent pop in on the slow disc drive and wear on discs. Then only much later with new gen crossgen games like Battlefield 4 (2 discs), Titanfall, Evil Within, etc they opened up for devs and added support for mandatory installs, added USB pen drive support in the OS and released a new console with a drive, the xbox360 E. Kojima even released MGSV (2 discs) on xbox 360 but required an install.

Only towards the end of the gen when 360 was showing its weaknesses of DVD storage and no HDD by default did MS take measures for devs. Not when MGS4 was being developed. Devs also know that requiring a HDD would lower sales even more because a lot of 360 buyers had no HDD.

It was a mandate and pushed by the parity clause. I guess they didn't want 360s weakness of disc swapping and lack of HDD by default showing up throughout most of the gen but it was becoming increasingly difficult to convince devs who were developing for PS3, XB1/PS4 and PC at the tail end of the 360 to run of disc and they had to correct this decision they made for lower cost consoles by taking those measures.

Football Manager 2006 required an HDD and that was very early. I don't think there was any mandate, it just wasn't feasible, other than the core versions you also only had 20GB for HDDs until around late 2008/2009.
Even if MGS only installed say 10 to 12GB, it was still far too much for the average X360 HDD user, especially since a lot of that was also reserved for OG XB partitions.
 
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TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
MGS4 was loved by some but the game itself went into oblivion fairly quick
I don't know how you could type that onto your browser with a straight face on Neogaf when the game won GOTY......TWICE
🤔
 

coffinbirth

Member
Not at the time. There was a mandate throughout most of the 360 gen. MS had a parity clause where they said it had to have the same content 'on-disc' meaning the kingfey suggestion of an internet download to a HDD was not an option at all either. 99% of games require no HDD.

Towards the tail end of the 360 gen though they first had "copy disc to HDD" where it wasn't game file installation but something similar to a copied iso of the disc to prevent pop in on the slow disc drive and wear on discs. Then only much later with new gen crossgen games like Battlefield 4 (2 discs), Titanfall, Evil Within, etc they opened up for devs and added support for mandatory installs, added USB pen drive support in the OS and released a new console with a drive, the xbox360 E. Kojima even released MGSV (2 discs) on xbox 360 but required an install.

Only towards the end of the gen when 360 was showing its weaknesses of DVD storage and no HDD by default did MS take measures for devs. Not when MGS4 was being developed. Devs also know that requiring a HDD would lower sales even more because a lot of 360 buyers had no HDD.

It was a mandate and pushed by the parity clause. I guess they didn't want 360s weakness of disc swapping and lack of HDD by default showing up throughout most of the gen but it was becoming increasingly difficult to convince devs who were developing for PS3, XB1/PS4 and PC at the tail end of the 360 to run of disc and they had to correct this decision they made for lower cost consoles by taking those measures.
Burnout Paradise required an HDD install as far back as 2008, which is when MGSIV came out. Plenty of others like Final Fantasy XIII and the like before optional disc installs was even a thing.

People claiming this was only the crossgen titles are just wrong.

I will, however, concede that this was an exception and not the rule.
 

01011001

Member
Hard to have an audience if you don’t make product for it.

exactly, japanese devs wonder why noone buys their games, but then Square does shit like releasing Kingom Hearts 3 on xbox with none of the older games being available on the platform... and then they release the older games a year or so after 3... yeah totally great idea!

or Silent Hill back in the day. 2 multiplatform, 3 only on PS2, 4 multiplatform again, like wtf?

Soul Calibur, 2 multiplat, 3 PS2 only, 4 multiplat...

Metal Gear Solid. 1 only on PS1, 2 on PS2 and Xbox, remake of 1 only on GameCube, 3 only PS2, 4 only PS3, 5 multiplat...

it's hilariously stupid if they want to actually build consumer bases on new platforms
 
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BossLackey

Gold Member
Okay, but to be fair, the PS3's cell architecture was a massive pain in the ass to develop for and Kojipro didn't do a lot of multi-platform development before that.

Granted, I am a diehard Kojima apologist, so I'm heavily biased here.
 

Three

Member
Not really...I recall Final Fantasy XIII, Rage, Battlefield 3, Burnout Paradise, Fallout 3 GotY, Borderlands GotY, Mass Effect 3, Assassins Creed 3, etc...and I'm sure sure were others prior to the cross gen games.
Burnout Paradise required an HDD install as far back as 2008, which is when MGSIV came out. Plenty of others like Final Fantasy XIII and the like before optional disc installs was even a thing.

People claiming this was only the crossgen titles are just wrong.

I will, however, concede that this was an exception and not the rule.

I know for a fact that Rage didn't require an install. Neither did Burnout paradise. You could copy the disc and it would save you 8 seconds on the loading screen but that's it. Same with FF13. None of them were mandatory installs and you could run off the disc though. The only one I've been made aware of requiring a HDD is FM2006 but that was a 360 exclusive.
 
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coffinbirth

Member
I know for a fact that Rage didn't require an install. Neither did Burnout paradise. You could copy the disc and it would save you 8 seconds on the loading screen but that's it. Same with FF13. None of them were mandatory installs and you could run off the disc though. The only one I've been made aware of requiring a HDD is FM2006 but that was a 360 exclusive.
If you wanted the game to not run like ass, it was....it streamed textures off the disc, lol. If you spun around, nothing behind you would have textures for a noticeable amount of time, it certainly wasn't just "save you 8 seconds on the loading screen that's it" it was mandatory in all but name if you wanted a playable experience. There was a mandatory install on PS3 because of this, ironically. But sure...

Burnout Paradise requires it for multiplayer though....go ahead try to play online without installing it.

"Requiring an HDD" is a whole other can of worms though, as that is true for games outside of full game installation, such as every single Backwards Compatible game, the Forza titles, etc.

I'm not sure why you're pursuing this narrative though, all I said was that there were plenty of games that required an install, which is true.
 
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