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Sony can respond to The Empire building the Death Star using...Moneyball

Men_in_Boxes

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So you are telling me they should invest in some of the most competitive markets there are because they are "undervalued". Its a bit weird because you already list of several games in a genre that sold like hotcakes, which is the exact opposite of being unvervalued.

Single Player AAA 20 hour games with no DLC, MTX, or GAAS mechanics are being undervalued because Sony is one of the only devs out there providing these kind of games. They are expansive to make and run on comparatively low margins (compared to GAAS and others listed).
The reality is that "anyone" could make a valhalla, or star dew valley because they are relatively low budget. But these already exist without Sony. So Sonys goal is to bring players to play these games on THEIR ecosystem to make money and in order to bring players into their eco system they try to provide something that no other platform has in that abundance. And that is big AAA single player 20 hour games.

Yes there is rockstar and very few other devs that provide these games every blood moon but only on a Sony system do you get these at a steady pace. Last year was GoT, TLoU2 and FF7R (timed, but good enough for most people). There are no games like these on ANY other platform. There aint no GoW on XBox and there is no Horizon on switch (which is serving another undervalued part of the gaming market btw.).

So Sony is already doing what you are saying and they have done so since the PS1. They've grown these studios for decades now and they made good profit with them, not just by selling games, but by selling an idea of what their console stands for. Big budget blockbuster experiences (love them or hate them, doesnt matter) that you cant get anywhere else.

We'll see if MS can catch up this gen, they sure will try and I hope both platforms will become stronger as a result.



First person to respond to the OP. There's hope for you yet GAF.
 

LordBlodgett

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I like your questions about what is overvalued and undervalued, but I don't like your analogy. Every type of game you listed comes to Playstation because it is the 900 Lb Gorilla. Sony is the NY Yankees. They don't need to make weird quirky Japanese games because most of the ones that are made will come to their system anyway. They don't need to make Fortnite, or Minecraft, or COD or any massive multiplayer game because those will definitely be on their platform and they will get a cut of all of the MTX. No GAAS game is going to skip the Playstation platform either.

I think that they make cinematic single player experiences because those win at the awards shows and usually get great reviews. In turn they get tons of free publicity and people associate them with having the "best" games. Think about the last GAAS, MMO, Multiplayer, or Sandbox game that you remember winning a bunch of game of the year awards......it doesn't happen, even though these are the games that have the most players and make the most money.

I do think that Sony is "protecting their lead" rather than aggressively trying to be the disruptor, but it makes total sense why they would do that. They are the leader now and don't need to respond unless that starts to change.
 
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SenjutsuSage

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Because despite series x sales being seemingly below those of even the one in a similar time frame, and the series consoles both being in less demand than Sony’s console, and PlayStation posting their best financials of all time people are convinced Xbox is about to take over because of 20 million subs for a service that took 10 billion dollars and basically give aways to get to that large figure. It’s more likely Microsoft sees Xbox as having failed with the sheer amount of resources given to them and starts to wind the division down this gen than Xbox taking over and become the industry leader.
Give Me A Break Reaction GIF by reactionseditor
 

Men_in_Boxes

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I like your questions about what is overvalued and undervalued, but I don't like your analogy. Every type of game you listed comes to Playstation because it is the 900 Lb Gorilla. Sony is the NY Yankees. They don't need to make weird quirky Japanese games because most of the ones that are made will come to their system anyway. They don't need to make Fortnite, or Minecraft, or COD or any massive multiplayer game because those will definitely be on their platform and they will get a cut of all of the MTX. No GAAS game is going to skip the Playstation platform either.

I think that they make cinematic single player experiences because those win at the awards shows and usually get great reviews. In turn they get tons of free publicity and people associate them with having the "best" games. Think about the last GAAS, MMO, Multiplayer, or Sandbox game that you remember winning a bunch of game of the year awards......it doesn't happen, even though these are the games that have the most players and make the most money.

I do think that Sony is "protecting their lead" rather than aggressively trying to be the disruptor, but it makes total sense why they would do that. They are the leader now and don't need to respond unless that starts to change.

Sony is not the New York Yankees.

They were, but they're not anymore.

Microsoft is funding a significantly bigger, more expensive stable of developers after the Bethesda aquisition. PC+XBox means their install base will be bigger than PlayStation for the duration of the generation. And GamePass is likely losing them quite a bit of money because it can't be doing any favors to AAA game sales.

Microsoft is outspending Sony for the first time in XBox's existence.

I don't see how Sony's strategy can succeed going against that juggernaut moving forward. Naughty Dogs next linear story game (if they go down that route again) is going to cost significantly more than TLoU2, and it'll sell roughly the same as their last few games.

If Sony releases two big games a year, they can't be single player games people beat in a weekend. GamePass and MS studio size counters that strategy pretty effectively.

Sony needs to find a way to stay in the conversation more than 2 or 3 weeks a year.
 

MonarchJT

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Because despite series x sales being seemingly below those of even the one in a similar time frame, and the series consoles both being in less demand than Sony’s console, and PlayStation posting their best financials of all time people are convinced Xbox is about to take over because of 20 million subs for a service that took 10 billion dollars and basically give aways to get to that large figure. It’s more likely Microsoft sees Xbox as having failed with the sheer amount of resources given to them and starts to wind the division down this gen than Xbox taking over and become the industry leader.
Are you Michael patcher?
 

TheMay30thMan

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Undervalue:

Multiplayer - SteamCharts and XBox Live most Played Games List shows that people are overwhelmingly playing multiplayer games today.

GAAS - In 10 years, the amount of people playing their "one game", is going to increase. Sony needs to be leading that charge.
I don’t personally see these two working well for PlayStation as they’re the opposite of what PlayStation markets itself as.
Because despite series x sales being seemingly below those of even the one in a similar time frame, and the series consoles both being in less demand than Sony’s console
I’ve been seeing this a lot of Neogaf lately, and it’s really irritating. Everywhere I check, they’re all sold out. If they’re in less demand, where are they? Really, please tell me. I want one.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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I don’t personally see these two working well for PlayStation as they’re the opposite of what PlayStation markets itself as.

"Play has no limits"



That feels a bit "new frontiers"/multiplayery to me.

Plus, your marketing reflects the direction you want your product to go.
 
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Fredrik

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You build upon your previous success and you start much healthier when coming from a very successful generation like PS4 vs a very bad generation like Xbox One.
Yet your graph shows that PS2 sold 157.7M and PS3 87M.

What does that tell you?

Anything can happen, you should never sit on your laurels enjoying past successes, you need to stay hungry and pay attention to what’s happening around you and be ready to change strategy whenever needed.

And, well, Gamepass is what’s happening. Is Sony ready to change strategy?
 

TheMay30thMan

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"Play has no limits"



That feels a bit "new frontiers"/multiplayery to me.

Plus, your marketing reflects the direction you want your product to go.
It really does give off that vibe. I won’t be entirely convinced until we see more games in the next few years. I’ve seen the multiplayer marketing every generation start, and PlayStation still goes balls to the wall with marketing its catalogue of single player experiences front and center.

It would be an awful shame if PlayStation prioritized GaaS style multiplayer games over its clearly superior single player experiences because it‘s intimidated by Microsoft’s money.
 

93xfan

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Sony owns many of the best developers in the world - Sony Santa Monica, Gureilla Games, SuckerPunch, Naughty Dog, Media Molecule, etc.

Until Microsoft can match these studios on quality, Sony will continue to dominate them, like they have for 20 years and counting.
I’d say Sony Santa Monica and Naughty Dog definitely fall under that. Not so sure about the others. The landscape has changed a lot with the acquisition of Bethesda, though.

Add in much better BC, Gamepass, Halo (at least MCC if the new one doesn’t impress), Flight Sim and Sony has some serious competition
 

DenchDeckard

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Is there some really deep down concern, or insecurity from sonys fans that even though they are the most successful they’ve been and realised some of the best games ever made in recent history, that there is a worry that the other company’s are doing well also this generation?

im just trying to understand where all these threads are coming from?

is it because the ps4 launched with such success against the Xbox one, that practically killed itself from inside its own company and the none starter Wii u?

now all consoles are doing their own thing better than they ever have...is that triggering Something in Sony fans?

can’t we just enjoy that competition is good for US? I don’t know anyone else but I’m having the best generation start ever.

demons souls and miles morales were fun, my ps5 is now in standby waiting for ratchet. My xbox is used every day thanks to gamepass. I’m blasting monster Hunter when I can on my switch..even in bed at night...and my kick ass pc is loving me some apex legends and gems like valheim when they appear.

multi platform gaming is amazing. every one should try it if they can.
 
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turtlepowa

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Is there some really deep down concern, or insecurity from sonys fans that even though they are the most successful they’ve been and realised some of the best games ever made in recent history, that there is a worry that the other company’s are doing well also this generation?
Gaming is changing and it seems that fans that realise this are concerned that Sony's tactic with some high budget Netflix 3rd person action adventures won't work forever.
It works for now, but Microsoft is investing heavily. So will it work in 5-10 years without Sony chaning something? We don't know, time will show.
 

SLB1904

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Considering theres been more exclusives for PS5 I dont know what you mean.

Ive been playing Disco Elysium and Abe’s Soulstorm this week. One was free on PS+ and the other was discounted at launch for some reason.
Ive got Returnal, RE 8, Ratchet and Clank, FF7 and more coming this year.
What are you playing daily on the XBox SX?
Hes playing phil spencer love me, love me not
 

ToadMan

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Blockbuster said this.
Kodak said this.
Oldsmobile said this.

The videogame market is changing at a blistering rate. Not reacting to it would be a fools errand.

Kodak, Blockbuster, and Oldsmobile all held a lot of weight at one time.

Then competitors showed up. They were unable to reposition in the market and all 3 went belly up

Lol - terrible comparisons.
 
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ToadMan

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Gaming is changing and it seems that fans that realise this are concerned that Sony's tactic with some high budget Netflix 3rd person action adventures won't work forever.
It works for now, but Microsoft is investing heavily. So will it work in 5-10 years without Sony chaning something? We don't know, time will show.

Netflix Inks Deal for Rights to Sony Movies, Including Coming ‘Spider-Man’ Films

Sony understand the content production and licensing market very well. Much better than MS. No surprise - Sony has been doing it successfully for a lot longer.
 
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IDKFA

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No need to hit the panic button.

Sony will be fine. They have a very strong first party line up of studios, some great third party exclusive games and I'm sure they'll purchase some more studios in the future. They'll probably make some big announcements in the coming months.

Microsoft are also in a very strong position, which is great because it'll make Sony want to respond. Competition is a good thing. It makes Sony and MS both strive to offer the best services and games possible, which is a win for all gamers.
 

DenchDeckard

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Gaming is changing and it seems that fans that realise this are concerned that Sony's tactic with some high budget Netflix 3rd person action adventures won't work forever.
It works for now, but Microsoft is investing heavily. So will it work in 5-10 years without Sony chaning something? We don't know, time will show.

yeah but no matter what, sonys high budget excellent performing games shouldn’t go away. I just expect they will evolve what services you can digest them on potentially. What that looks like isn’t for me to worry about.

all we should care about is good games getting to exist and as healthily as possible for those that create them.
 
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Eighthours

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Undervalue:

GAAS - In 10 years, the amount of people playing their "one game", is going to increase. Sony needs to be leading that charge.
This is ridiculously, hilariously wrong.

GAAS are so toxic in terms of sales prospects now that publishers and developers are running away from them. Just look at Outriders - a game that clearly began development with GAAS in mind and then pivoted away from it because of the failures. Look at Avengers, a game that could have been good as a story based game like Spider-Man, but was forced into GAAS for its endgame (presumably because Square was chasing that Destiny money, or so it thought). As a result of its bad design - which nerfs the potential of the licence, as gameplay and scenarios can’t take proper advantage of how each superhero’s abilities could be used in a more linear game - it satisfies neither camp and is considered a flop. Look at Anthem, a monumental failure that was once supposed to be the next big thing.

Everyone already has their game - Destiny, Warframe, The Division (and even its sequel wasn’t as popular as Ubi hoped for), Fortnite etc - and the GAAS market is firmly closed for newbies. Any successful new GAAS would have to be absolutely amazing, as there simply isn’t a market there for ‘solid’ entries. Players have already picked and aren’t going to move en masse to something new unless it‘s the best one ever made, and publishers have been spooked by all the failures. EA has seen that single player games can actually sell really well (Fallen Order), and Square’s pivot with Outriders has worked out much better for them than keeping it as a GAAS would have done. New GAAS are dead, man. Your entry badly needs to switch category to ‘overvalue’.
 
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Boss Mog

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You guys really don't understand what PlayStation is doing, it's at least spending 2x more than Xbox. You think that $25B is pure, 1 year net profit? If true that will be insane but no.



PlayStation has made only $3.3B profit out of $25B, which means they've spent around $22.7B on PlayStation brand in one year.

Sony is making vastly more consoles, making and publishing a gigantic amount of games vs Xbox, developing extensively in games and services.

That war chest is a fucking meme, and the Bethesda deal that people are melting over is pocket change to what PlayStation Division is spending on. Difference is Xbox is more than likely is operating on a loss and MS isn't transparent enough with it hiding behind PR. PlayStation is spending much stronger than Xbox and making much more consoles! They've shipped more than 7 million consoles (over $3.5B + logistics) and planning to ship 14.8 million PS5's by next year, so that's alone is investing more than $7.4B in one year.

MS should stop talking and start showing.
This.

All the Gamepass threads on here act like MS is currently killing Sony but people need to start living in reality and the reality is that PlayStation is a MUCH stronger brand than XBOX these days and MS has a long way to go if they want to catch up and so far they have shown no games that will allow them to do so. The requirement to have XSX games run on XSS and even XB1 was a mistake, so was making Gamepass along with every first party game available day 1 on PC. It makes XBOX redundant. Sony is releasing games on PC too, but several years after they came to PlayStation and are no longer generating a lot of revenue on that platform so it makes sense to have them generate revenue elsewhere. It's good business.

So before making 10 threads gloating about some 4 year old game coming to Gamepass or Bethesda's exclusive vaporware, try to live in the now and see that MS is light-years from PlayStation as things stand. I'm not saying MS can't turn it around and won't have great exclusives, the 360 was proof they can, but they're not there yet this gen and haven't shown anything of relevance so far, so don't put the cart before the horse.
 
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longdi

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I think many gaffers are underestimating Jim Ryan's business intelligence. He's been in Playstation since 1994, and helped expand the PS brand in Europe massive before becoming the CEO. Also both companies have eyes and ears around the social media, so the higher ups already know about everything going around.

Jim Ryan:




jimbo has been stagnate and holed up for too long EU. what's there to do over at EU...?

The moment he stepped up in 2016, we noticed a decline in the PS we know and loved!
 
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ToadMan

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Why exactly?

Really?

Ok Sony has successfully produced diverse consumer electronics for 70 years outlasting many competitors. These days it has diversified revenue streams for electronics, imaging, movies, music, and gaming. It has innovated new technologies and developed markets for itself through shrewd business and investment and it has a history of success.

Kodak - single non diversified revenue stream mammoth and unwieldy corp destroyed by tech (which Sony was at the forefront of btw).

Blockbuster - single non diversified revenue stream zeitgeist company overtaken by tech and changing media consumption paradigms.

Oldsmobile - single non diversified revenue stream company making boring and technologically stagnant vehicles too expensive. Competitors ate their market and pushed them out.


Comparing Sony to blockbuster or Kodak is so ridiculous I can only assume it’s some kind of troll or extreme ignorance of business operations.

I don’t really know why it’s even necessary to have to type this.

Do people think it’s an accident Sony dominates the console gaming sector? That would be some kind of luck given they moved in, got rid of or sidelined the established players, and for 2 decades have bested one of the richest companies in the world.
 
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Goalus

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This.

All the Gamepass threads on here act like MS is currently killing Sony but people need to start living in reality and the reality is that PlayStation is a MUCH stronger brand than XBOX these days and MS has a long way to go if they want to catch up and so far they have shown no games that will allow them to do so. The requirement to have XSX games run on XSS and even XB1 was a mistake, so was making Gamepass along with every first party game available day 1 on PC. It makes XBOX redundant. Sony is releasing games on PC too, but several years after they came to PlayStation and are no longer generating a lot of revenue on that platform so it makes sense to have them generate revenue elsewhere. It's good business.

So before making 10 threads gloating about some 4 year old game coming to Gamepass or Bethesda's exclusive vaporware, try to live in the now and see that MS is light-years from PlayStation as things stand. I'm not saying MS can't turn it around and won't have great exclusives, the 360 was proof they can, but they're not there yet this gen and haven't shown anything of relevance so far, so don't put the cart before the horse.
I would love it if everyone in Playstation management thought like you.

That would make it much easier for Xbox.
 

SJRB

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How DARE you drag the name of the most amazing movie ever through the mud for this filth?

 

Warablo

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Sony will be fine, it's just Xbox will do better than the horrid end of the 360/One era.
 

Zeroing

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WTF is happening with this forum?

We have some people on the internet trying to push a narrative that MS somehow won and Sony needs to change in order to stay relevant and that Nintendo doesn’t even exist.

MS won what? publicity! This is called in marketing, guerrilla tactics.

I’ll exagerate but it’s like blackberry fans were all on the internet saying the phones were better because they have keyboards, meanwhile everyone in a forum believes that
Blackberry phones are outselling android phones! 😂
That’s how ridiculous all this looks like to me.

now being serious

None of you ever though that making the gaming space diverse is a good thing! We don’t need Sony and MS becoming identical!
 

TBiddy

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Kodak - single non diversified revenue stream mammoth and unwieldy corp destroyed by tech (which Sony was at the forefront of btw).

I'd just like to point out that Kodak had multiple revenue streams. Camera, printers, film (obviously) and medical equipment. They were very reliant on film, but they did have other forms of income.

None of you ever though that making the gaming space diverse is a good thing! We don’t need Sony and MS becoming identical!

This could potentially be the most true thing written on Gaf this year.
 
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Dec 12, 2018
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Really?

Ok Sony has successfully produced diverse consumer electronics for 70 years outlasting many competitors. These days it has diversified revenue streams for electronics, imaging, movies, music, and gaming. It has innovated new technologies and developed markets for itself through shrewd business and investment and it has a history of success.

Kodak - single non diversified revenue stream mammoth and unwieldy corp destroyed by tech (which Sony was at the forefront of btw).

Blockbuster - single non diversified revenue stream zeitgeist company overtaken by tech and changing media consumption paradigms.

Oldsmobile - single non diversified revenue stream company making boring and technologically stagnant vehicles too expensive. Competitors ate their market and pushed them out.


Comparing Sony to blockbuster or Kodak is so ridiculous I can only assume it’s some kind of troll or extreme ignorance of business operations.

I don’t really know why it’s even necessary to have to type this.

Do people think it’s an accident Sony dominates the console gaming sector? That would be some kind of luck given they moved in, got rid of or sidelined the established players, and for 2 decades have bested one of the richest companies in the world.

You obviously missed OP's point entirely.
 

Chukhopops

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What I find weird is that all those Sony doomposts are made by blue team posters. I don’t know if it’s just attention whoring or just panic reactions but the truth is nobody serious believes Sony is going to die instantly because of a few mishaps.

I think the playing field is just becoming more balanced compared to previous gens and the main brands are each trying to do something different. I love GP as a different way to enjoy games and I’m happy to see MS fighting more seriously for the market but I don’t see the market situation changing drastically because of that - although this gen might be the first one where I just skip the Sony console (usually I buy it mid-generation).
 
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xShaun

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Xbox started a Snowball in 2018, each year that snowball has got larger and larger and isn't slowing down.

Sony does not need to respond and most likely won't. They have sold the most hardware and to this point of the the year have the most exclusives.

Sony are thinking about the here and now and they are killing it. Xbox are thinking about the future and are killing it too.

E3 time is going to really, really show the gameplan from both of these companies and I think a lot of people will be shocked.
 

Dream-Knife

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Yes, let's focus on making GAAS more of a thing to "save" some corporation who's heyday was in the 80s.

Let them sink or swim on their own. Buy the product you want.
 

Major_Key

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Sony imo need a deeper gameplay loop for all of their games.

Their games are too linear even the open worlds, it indirectly forces you to do the main mission. Never in a sony OW I had fun + 2h because I was doing other things than the main mission. These are quality games but I would like them to give more importance to the overall Gameplay Loop / Game Mechanics they focus too much on the cinematic/storytelling experiences imo.

That why I prefer PS3 generations, they have lot of diversity and games with unique game design/concept
 
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MadPanda

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Sony owns many of the best developers in the world - Sony Santa Monica, Gureilla Games, SuckerPunch, Naughty Dog, Media Molecule, etc.

Until Microsoft can match these studios on quality, Sony will continue to dominate them, like they have for 20 years and counting.

Guerilla Games and Sucker Lunch are not among the best developers. Their output is by the numbers open world lite RPG games a la assassin's creed. Their previous output is not much better even though there were some gems there. The other three are among the best.


This thread would be much more interesting if it was purely about what is overvalued and undervalued in the industry, without the focus being on Sony, Microsoft or anyone else in particular.
 

RedWhiteBlue

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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Jim Ryan, yesterday, probably.

We've all had to hear XBox fans talk about Microsoft's fearsome war chest since 2003. "Just you wait. They can buy anyone they want. Then we'll see who's laughing". Well, it seems like the war chest is finally in play.

But what can Sony do?

The answer is Moneyball. There's a bunch of great YouTube videos explaining it but I'll give you Hollywoods description, as it can be pretty dry.

Context: MLB baseball doesn't have a salary cap, which means wealthy teams can construct rosters by paying the best players. In the clip, Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) is the GM of the lowly Oakland A's. His owner hires a non baseball mathematician (Jonah Hill) who assesses a players talent using non traditional means.



Sony can't outspend Microsoft. They don't have the stomach for it, and frankly they don't have the ability.

In order for Sony to compete over the next 10+ years, they must identify what the market overvalues, what it undervalues, and spend accordingly.

The question I pose to NeoGAF is "What does the industry currently overvalue, and what does the industry currently undervalue?"


Overvalue:

Big budget graphics - The market would rather play Minecraft and Fortnite than The Last of Us II or Resident Evil 2 Remake. Gamers don't value graphics like we did back in the day.

Quirky Japanese games (KojiPro) - There's a reason Japan has fallen off a cliff over the last 20 years. Kojima, we love him, isn't commercially relavent anymore.

20 hr single player games w/no replay value. These games come and go so quickly out of the zeitgeist that it's not worth pursuing if you're spending crazy time and resources on them.

High skill floor games - Games that can't be picked up by a wide variety of gamers are putting a ceiling on their success. The Bloodborne/DarkSouls type games are never going to be big sellers.



Undervalue:

Multiplayer - SteamCharts and XBox Live most Played Games List shows that people are overwhelmingly playing multiplayer games today.

Western Indie - Valheim is closing in on 7 million sold. That's approaching The Last of Us II numbers.

GAAS - In 10 years, the amount of people playing their "one game", is going to increase. Sony needs to be leading that charge.

Sandbox - Stardew Valley sold 10+ million, Animal Crossing sold 40+ million, Terraria sold 25+ million. These games appeal to a bigger audience and they traditionally have longer legs.

Do people actually enjoy reading this crap?

"XBox fans". What the hell are you on about?

Sony is doing their thing, XBox is doing theirs. Nintendo is off doing another thing. You can buy pre-built PCs or build your own and choose from loads of games on all the various stores. You can even game on Mobile if that's what you like.

Why would any sensible person care at all who "wins" when basically the situation is that if you like videogames you have so much choice?

Moneyball is about baseball. Competitive sports. If you are cheering on Sony or Microsoft in the same way that people cheer on sports teams then that is one of the daftest things I have ever heard of.

Yes Sony should not bother with Graphics or great single player games so that they can "beat" Microsoft. Great idea.

Your "Death Star" analogy is just so pathetic and sad. I hope XBox ends up with loads of awesome games. I hope Sony and Nintendo do the same. I hope PC gamers continue to build the most powerful gaming machines in the world. Who really cares who "wins"?
 
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That's not the question posed in the OP.

It's asking what you think the industry overvalues right now, and what it undervalues.
Fine I will bite but what he said about what the industry overvalues and undervalues is all over the place.

Overvalued

Big Budget graphics. What? If this were true the Series S would be outselling the competition in reality it was available for a week on amazon in the UK last month, Microsoft second biggest market meanwhile the PS5 and series X are impossible to get hold. Gamers have always cared about graphics... at an affordable price that is the whole point of console generations.

Quirky Japanese games. Again what? Are you aware of animal crossing or all of Nintendo’s games? You know the most profitable company of the big three? What about Monster World, capcom in general is stronger than ever. Just because Kojima had a bit of dud (although by all accounts death stranding appears to be profitable) he's going to dismiss an entire country?

One and done 20-hour single player games. This is an advantage that single player games have because they do not cannibalize one another (unlike multiplayer which I will get to later) e.g., ghost and the last of us 2 released within a month of each other and still sold amazingly well. They are also selling better than ever and do not seem to be slowing down. Also, you know that the 7.5 billion acquisition Microsoft made was for a company that mainly makes one and done single player games, right? Far less commercially successful than Sony does as well.

High skill-based games. This is incredible how off base he is here. Firstly, Dark souls 3 sold over 10 million units (A metric he considers successful later in the post) and I think Elden Ring will be in even bigger Also I think darks souls fits in the Japanese quirky game’s category. Secondly what the hell??!! Fortnite, call of duty, Rocket league, Apex all have massively high skill caps and there literally the biggest games in the industry and having massive staying power. Meanwhile low skill ceiling games like fall guys and among us are huge for a while then crater.

Undervalued

Multiplayer. I thought he couldn’t be more off base with his last point by then he goes and tops it. What the flying fuck!? Every man and his dog know that multiplayer games are the biggest in the industry but here is the issue with them. They likely cost a lot longer term. Single players likely have a bigger upfront cost but once you release your done multiplayer games no doubt cost a lot more to maintain (anyone got any numbers on this I could be wrong, but I don't think so). Like I mentioned before they cannibalize each other. Players tend to stick with one game mainly and do not change. So, you often have one or 2 winners and whole bunch of losers.

Western Indie. This is the quirky Japanese game but in reverse there are some mega successes, and some complete flops why make broad statements about half of the worlds indie game development lol.

GAAS. People thought at the beginning of last generation that every game needed to be like destiny (I know GAAS has broadened to include other genres) to compete. In reality there's been what 3 major successes in this category (destiny, division and warframe) and it didn't stop Sony having its most successful first party games ever. (I think of it like this Sony's has about 7 IPs as big as Halo at its peak Horizon, Last of us, Uncharted, God of War, Ghost, Spiderman and maybe Gran Turismo). This is the same issue with Multiplayer if you hit big you really hit big if you miss your left with a bunch of empty servers.

Sandbox. Again, we know this is a big buck’s genre why on earth didn't he mention GTA

At the end of the day his whole post is a massive strawman everyone is clearly aware about which genres are big and which are biggest (especially game publishers). Breaking into those markets is another thing entirely so you have to find your niche. Sony's niche has clearly been big budget high quality story and gameplay driven games (people often dismiss the gameplay part but they are a big part of the games) and let third parties. Nobody really competes with them on quality and output at the moment. Rockstar and CD project produce one game a generation capcom and Ubisoft kind of do but there not selling as well on the PlayStation platforms at least (Ubisoft likely outsell Sony games if you combine all platform sales.) I don’t think either company matches Sony’s production values, level of polish etc. Capcom has got close though.

Personally, I think Microsoft has it ass backwards at the moment. They are putting services (Gamepass) in front of content (games especially exclusive games). Microsoft needs to make unique popular games you can't play anywhere else once they do that gamepass just becomes a nice bonus. (I think gamepass is cool idea with potential I 'am sceptical about it having the same kind if success Netflix, Disney plus has had but that's another post.)
 

Aion002

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The eternal fight.,,, It seems.

Takes like these were probably made by Nintendo fans when the PS1 was released: "No way Sony can compete against Nintendo in the same terms...", then changed on the PS2 to Microsoft fans: "There's no way Sony can compete against MS, they have infinite money".... And so on... Now this is the same take with a different spin...


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The only thing Sony needs to do is keep making good games and keep the partnerships. Microsoft is the one that needs something new.... And buying everything under the sun might not be the answer.
 
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Rhazer Fusion

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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Jim Ryan, yesterday, probably.

We've all had to hear XBox fans talk about Microsoft's fearsome war chest since 2003. "Just you wait. They can buy anyone they want. Then we'll see who's laughing". Well, it seems like the war chest is finally in play.

But what can Sony do?

The answer is Moneyball. There's a bunch of great YouTube videos explaining it but I'll give you Hollywoods description, as it can be pretty dry.

Context: MLB baseball doesn't have a salary cap, which means wealthy teams can construct rosters by paying the best players. In the clip, Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) is the GM of the lowly Oakland A's. His owner hires a non baseball mathematician (Jonah Hill) who assesses a players talent using non traditional means.



Sony can't outspend Microsoft. They don't have the stomach for it, and frankly they don't have the ability.

In order for Sony to compete over the next 10+ years, they must identify what the market overvalues, what it undervalues, and spend accordingly.

The question I pose to NeoGAF is "What does the industry currently overvalue, and what does the industry currently undervalue?"


Overvalue:

Big budget graphics - The market would rather play Minecraft and Fortnite than The Last of Us II or Resident Evil 2 Remake. Gamers don't value graphics like we did back in the day.

Quirky Japanese games (KojiPro) - There's a reason Japan has fallen off a cliff over the last 20 years. Kojima, we love him, isn't commercially relavent anymore.

20 hr single player games w/no replay value. These games come and go so quickly out of the zeitgeist that it's not worth pursuing if you're spending crazy time and resources on them.

High skill floor games - Games that can't be picked up by a wide variety of gamers are putting a ceiling on their success. The Bloodborne/DarkSouls type games are never going to be big sellers.



Undervalue:

Multiplayer - SteamCharts and XBox Live most Played Games List shows that people are overwhelmingly playing multiplayer games today.

Western Indie - Valheim is closing in on 7 million sold. That's approaching The Last of Us II numbers.

GAAS - In 10 years, the amount of people playing their "one game", is going to increase. Sony needs to be leading that charge.

Sandbox - Stardew Valley sold 10+ million, Animal Crossing sold 40+ million, Terraria sold 25+ million. These games appeal to a bigger audience and they traditionally have longer legs.
Well, Sony has basically dominated 4 generations in a row with a rather unchanging strategy and the PS5 is hitting record sales, so I don’t think adopting those tactics are really necessary for them going forward. At least I really hope not. They should just keep doing what they did in the past to stay successful and relevant even if the market is unfortunately changing for the worst imo.

If Sony starts focusing on things like online multiplayer, GAAS and bloated, longer games, then that will be a huge turn off for me and a healthy amount of PlayStation gamers I’m assuming. Is that strategy really genuinely working out for Microsoft though based on their hardware and software sales during the last few years though?
 
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BabyfaceRe

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So many unbelievably bad takes in this thread.

Not even 12 months into this new gen and people acting like the winner has already been decided? This your first gen folks?

This looks to be another ps3/360 era. 360 dominated early with good exclusives, amazing 3rd parties and system that was easy to develop for. But by the tail end of the gen people had figured out the powerhouse that was the ps3 and the exclusives started to completely take over. Sony then continued to ride that high with the ps4 and some easy PR wins.

Ps5 not started strong would be insane considering the momentum they built with the ps4. But jim ryan controversy aside the xbox is clearly primed to take over. We wont see the fruits of the studio acquisitions kick in for another 2-3 years and when it does the sheer number of studios will mean the flow will never stop, couple that with the superior specs and the the gulf of difference in value; expect xbox to pull a ps3 this gen.
 
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Sony being a company with many different divisions and therefore forms of income makes them a very safe ground to stay on and even in the worst-case scenario, meaning the gaming division tanks, that wouldn’t mean the end. I mean, a big thank you to the Captain Obvious' here, but none of that was even debated. No one questioned Sony being a household name. No one questioned Sony remaining in business. No one questioned their year-long success in the game. That was not the point!

Blockbuster - single non diversified revenue stream zeitgeist company overtaken by tech and changing media consumption paradigms.
ToadMan ToadMan was close, but still off.

The point is exactly what I marked in bold. Do you think the change in media consumption won't happen to video games too? Because that is pretty much inevitable. It already happened to music, it already happened to movies and you can bet that it will also happen to video games. That doesn’t mean that there won't be physical media anymore. That market still exists, although it keeps shrinking. Especially with music, the market of physical media isn’t anywhere close to what it was like 20 years ago. It still exists, money can still be made off of it, but it is a small niche rather than the go-to way to sell music these days. Video games will follow suit. Digital gaming distribution, streaming, and services like Gamepass are the future, no matter how you cut it, with the latter two becoming more and more viable and relevant.

With that in mind, Microsoft is much better positioned here than Sony and they will expand their position as much as possible. Sony has to adapt to the zeitgeist sooner or later, otherwise, it will show financially in their gaming division. And they absolutely will adapt, I have no doubt, but Microsoft has a head start here that shouldn’t be blue-eyed. If they don’t adapt, you just need to look at Blockbuster vs. streaming services and see what happened there. Yes, right now it does look good for Sony given the bigger popularity and mindshare, similar to how it was when Blockbuster was more popular than Netflix. That changed though and even if Blockbuster had survived they would’ve lost a lot because of their stubbornness. Nothing is written in stone!
No, that doesn’t mean Sony would go out of business, that is unrealistic, to say the least, but it does mean that they would lose a ton of mindshare and players.

The point of the comparison is to make clear that ignoring growing competition and a moving zeitgeist will harm a brand exceptionally and in the worst case can kill it alongside the company. Sony won’t go out of business, but if they act just like Blockbuster that will definitely harm their brand.

OP’s question now comes in the form of what needs to be done to counter that.
 

thelastword

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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - Jim Ryan, yesterday, probably.

We've all had to hear XBox fans talk about Microsoft's fearsome war chest since 2003. "Just you wait. They can buy anyone they want. Then we'll see who's laughing". Well, it seems like the war chest is finally in play.

But what can Sony do?

The answer is Moneyball. There's a bunch of great YouTube videos explaining it but I'll give you Hollywoods description, as it can be pretty dry.

Context: MLB baseball doesn't have a salary cap, which means wealthy teams can construct rosters by paying the best players. In the clip, Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) is the GM of the lowly Oakland A's. His owner hires a non baseball mathematician (Jonah Hill) who assesses a players talent using non traditional means.



Sony can't outspend Microsoft. They don't have the stomach for it, and frankly they don't have the ability.

In order for Sony to compete over the next 10+ years, they must identify what the market overvalues, what it undervalues, and spend accordingly.

The question I pose to NeoGAF is "What does the industry currently overvalue, and what does the industry currently undervalue?"


Overvalue:

Big budget graphics - The market would rather play Minecraft and Fortnite than The Last of Us II or Resident Evil 2 Remake. Gamers don't value graphics like we did back in the day.

Quirky Japanese games (KojiPro) - There's a reason Japan has fallen off a cliff over the last 20 years. Kojima, we love him, isn't commercially relavent anymore.

20 hr single player games w/no replay value. These games come and go so quickly out of the zeitgeist that it's not worth pursuing if you're spending crazy time and resources on them.

High skill floor games - Games that can't be picked up by a wide variety of gamers are putting a ceiling on their success. The Bloodborne/DarkSouls type games are never going to be big sellers.



Undervalue:

Multiplayer - SteamCharts and XBox Live most Played Games List shows that people are overwhelmingly playing multiplayer games today.

Western Indie - Valheim is closing in on 7 million sold. That's approaching The Last of Us II numbers.

GAAS - In 10 years, the amount of people playing their "one game", is going to increase. Sony needs to be leading that charge.

Sandbox - Stardew Valley sold 10+ million, Animal Crossing sold 40+ million, Terraria sold 25+ million. These games appeal to a bigger audience and they traditionally have longer legs.
Truth is......All the points you raised as "undervalue points" had huge marketing and internet WOM back in the day.....In the 360 days your game got docked points if you didn't have multiplayer. Indie games did excellent back in the PS3 days, the quality of indies were excellent, some even won GOTY like Journey...I don't think these are undervalued, I just think quality has waned or there is too much chaff to wade through in the indie market as of late.

GAAS has been all the rage for ages. You remember when consoles would be over prior to 2013? Mobile and GAAS games would take over presumably....Every nitbit journalist and their grandmothers spoke of console's impending doom to this juggernaut. Truth is, that was all marketing, PR goons and paid internet hustlers trying their best to lead a paradigm shift in gamer tastes for huge corporations....I'll tell you what I've found out, no matter how big the PR and marketing, the gamers will ultimately decide. Gamers are not really sophisticated you know, all they need are really well done polished games. Remember when all the PR was slanted towards Anthem, Evolve, TitanFall etc...Truth is, gamers never fall for hype and what others want them to play. Remember all the Battle Royale rage, how it would take over the industry. In reality, gamers play what they want to play, what's fun and genuinely feels great to them. Marketing to overhype or intentionally scour never works in the industry because lots of reviewers don't play the games they review and marketers and PR people don't play, they just want to get paid to hype products....

Sandbox and Open World games are not new, in the PS3 days, if your game was not openworld you got docked points by many reviewers, people trying to set a mandate on what you enjoy and pay your $60 for.....Stardew, Terraria etc...made great sales because they were cheap....I think I have Terraria on multiple devices and I don't remember ever buying it, some of these games were free on Plus, maybe paid $2 on steam or got them in Humble Bundles back then, they are not new games either and Valheim is also no where LOU 2 numbers, that game should be way over 10 million by now......


As for Sony's war chest. I think Sony has had good collaborations with many top tier publishers over the years.... Konami especially with Castlevania, Silent Hill and Metal Gear. Capcom mostly liked Nintendo, but since N has not made a beefy console for a while Capcom and Sony has gotten closer with them with the SFV deal. Sony and Rockstar have always been tight with the GTA series. And of course Sony, Square and FROM have always been great with FF and DQ and Demon Souls/Dark Souls and people forget the awesome robot games from FROM which were on PS. In truth, Sony can buy or do multiple deals with any of these companies.....I think these companies have more of a history of greatness and solid polished products than Bethesda, so it's really not how much you spend, but how well you shop....Sony was able to get Insomniac for 229 million, that's a great get for a top studio with great franchises that's still relevant and polished today. Sony is also in a position where they can make GOTY games in any genre, action, rpg, vr, you name it. I think they are working in multiple action games as we speak, a few shooters and platformers.....So they can compete with any big third party studio per genre....
 
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