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Sony announces PlayStation VR2 and Sense Controllers at CES

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
What’s your point? Eye tracking based foveated rendering we’re talking about, not fixed. The PlayStation blog makes no mention of it. The only thing it mentions eye tracking for is for using eye tracking as directional inputs.
Head In Hands GIF by Australian Survivor
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
There's no such thing as foveated rendering that doesn't rely on eye-tracking.

What are you even talking about?
The oculus quests often uses foveated rendering. That has no eye tracking.

Anyway. The PSVR2 WILL have eye tracked foveated rendering. You can count on it.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
The oculus quests often uses foveated rendering. That has no eye tracking.
And that is called FFS not FS. Just "FS" is eye tracking, FFS (that is listed in the very docs for OQ) is called FFS. For "fixed".
Keyword. "Fixed"

'FFR'

Sony said 'FR' with eye tracking. They did not say 'FFR'

FFR is called FFR for a reason, so people would not confuse it with FR.

Yet... here we are.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Is he trying to get himself banned again?

Seems like really dumb derails or really silly things that he says usually ends up in a ban for him.
Are you kidding?

What is “dumb” or “derailing” about what I said? We’re talking about VR and the tech. People are saying garbage like “there is no foveated rendering that doesn’t use eye tracking” and I’m correcting them with proof.

I’ve had 2 bans in total btw. The second of which was ridiculous.
 
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Are you kidding?

What is “dumb” or “derailing” about what I said? We’re talking about VR and the tech. People are saying garbage like “there is no foveated rendering that doesn’t use eye tracking” and I’m correcting them with proof.

I’ve had 2 bans in total btw. The second of which was ridiculous.
Proof of what?

Why else would you want eye tracking if not for dynamic foveated rendering?
 

SLB1904

Member
Are you kidding?

What is “dumb” or “derailing” about what I said? We’re talking about VR and the tech. People are saying garbage like “there is no foveated rendering that doesn’t use eye tracking” and I’m correcting them with proof.

I’ve had 2 bans in total btw. The second of which was ridiculous.
so you dont believe psvr2 has eye tracking?
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Does Oculus have eye tracking though?
No, but something having eye tracking doesn’t necessarily mean it has full eye based foveated rendering. There’s a huge difference between being able to track if a pupil moves left/right/up/down and being able to pinpoint exactly where to render in higher definition.

It’ll be great if PSVR2 has actual full eye tracked foveated rendering, I hope it does because that then forces other companies to have it too and it’ll become the standard going forward. A rising tide lifts all boats and all that.

All I’m saying is that on the PS Blog where they just detailed the specs of PSVR2 it makes no mention of eye tracking FR. The only use it lists for the eye tracking is as additional directional inputs.

Are you with me?
 
If you're just rendering the edges of the screen at a lower resolution, as far as I'm concerned that's not Foveated Rendering. I don't give a shit what Occulus calls it.

It's just a shitty, even worse version of VRS tier (whichever is the crappy tier).

No eye-tracking, no foveated rendering. Otherwise, you're just painting your fucking house cat black and yellow and trying to convince everyone it's a tiger.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
There are like a couple of really good games on all platforms (psvr/oculus/pc) and it's a pain in the ass. Oculus has a bit of an advantage with valve allowing oculus hardware to get the best of 2 worlds. People always just think HL Alyx is the only good thing on pc. If your into sims and cockpit games you have a whole lot of options to lose yourself in. I think there is a good chance this could get psvr2 ps5 update, and it could knock gt7 off the top step for best console vr sim. Yeh im pretty sure gt7 will have vr support, it's a pretty common thing in pc sims now and the genre is one of the easiest to implement.


Sims are amazing in VR, racing, flight, space.

One that comes to mind that got me to try VR on Oculus DK1 was this (very old, low res captured, but the feels are there). Elite dangerous was my first VR experience. I can't even explain how otherworldly it is to see planets to scale, it's almost a spiritual experience, and Space engine is also a MUST.


Dirt 1 & 2 are fucking scary in VR


DCS is another must for flight sims


These are games where you sit and don't mind a cable. Sony would have a market to sell units on PC if they allowed PCVR.
 

lingpanda

Member
It is a single cable… not cables like PSVR.
After trying the quest 2 and how free it was with only the first PSVR to compare to. It's a night and day difference. My first reaction is nope not at full price. As I allowed myself time to stew on it more. I do think one cable may be tolerable.
 

MrMephistoX

Member
Did you already look into doing a wireless connection to your PC with your Quest 2. Apparently you can buy a router that can do it for a similar price to the link cable.

Options are one of the best things about Quest 2, so i hope Sony follows their lead. Even if you have to buy extra parts.
Hmm might need to I have an OG Quest 1 and am waiting on the upgrade to Quest 3.
 

Loxus

Member
No, but something having eye tracking doesn’t necessarily mean it has full eye based foveated rendering. There’s a huge difference between being able to track if a pupil moves left/right/up/down and being able to pinpoint exactly where to render in higher definition.

It’ll be great if PSVR2 has actual full eye tracked foveated rendering, I hope it does because that then forces other companies to have it too and it’ll become the standard going forward. A rising tide lifts all boats and all that.

All I’m saying is that on the PS Blog where they just detailed the specs of PSVR2 it makes no mention of eye tracking FR. The only use it lists for the eye tracking is as additional directional inputs.

Are you with me?
Sony wants you to move your eyes around for added immersion.

Look at this image.

Looking into the periphery area with fixed foveated rendering kind of breaks immersion.

No way Sony would want this for their next gen VR headset.

It would be like this were it doesn't break immersion.


 

MrFunSocks

Banned
so you dont believe psvr2 has eye tracking?
What? Where do you come up with this. I didn’t say that at all lol.

It has eye tracking, but it’s not yet known if that eye tracking is precise enough and used for dynamic foveated rendering. Again - the PS Blog only mentions eye tracking can be used for extra user inputs.

why not use your hands?
Extra input. It means on top of using your hands. I imagine voice inputs will also come to vr one day if they’re not already available.

Also you don’t seem to understand this, but foveated rendering is the same thing as VRS. VRS is attempting to bring foveated rendering to regular gaming at a lesser scale. It’s supposed to be used in places where you won’t be looking at the time.

As an aside - dynamic foveated rendering isn’t as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. When you look around most of the time you’ll move your head so that what you’re looking at is in the centre of your vision. Fixed foveated rendering is good enough for that. How often do you sit there just side-eying things for extended periods of time? Usually you’ll take a quick look and then move your head that way so it’s in the centre of your vision.
 
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SLB1904

Member
What? Where do you come up with this. I didn’t say that at all lol.

It has eye tracking, but it’s not yet known if that eye tracking is precise enough and used for dynamic foveated rendering. Again - the PS Blog only mentions eye tracking can be used for extra user inputs.
if someone says this headset has eye-tracking, no one will think is for extra user inputs
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They're competing for the consumer, who will likely choose one or the other. Seems obvious that people will compare the headset options out there.

Yes, but no. If a person has a PS5 and a decent PC, they'd be better off getting PSVR2 (unless being wireless is a game breaker for them). And if a person has a beefy PC, they'd be better off NOT buying a PS5 just to play VR games and just by PCVR.

And if a person has neither, they should get the Oculus Quest 2. There's enough room for everybody.
 

Darius87

Member
No, but something having eye tracking doesn’t necessarily mean it has full eye based foveated rendering. There’s a huge difference between being able to track if a pupil moves left/right/up/down and being able to pinpoint exactly where to render in higher definition.
full rdna2 now full eye based foveated rendering... the pr bs you been eating has invaded psvr :messenger_tears_of_joy: wtf is full? you definitely can make anything better just add full before it. means everything ps related isn't full like rdna isn't full now is foveated rendering what next ?
 

Rivet

Member
From Ars Technica :

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/01/sony-confirms-playstation-2-vrs-specs-first-official-game/

"Eye tracking, meanwhile, is advertised primarily as a form of control, so that in-game elements like characters can respond directly to a user's gaze.

But Sony also mentions the technical benefits that eye tracking can bring, as part of a system known as "foveated rendering." With such a system in place, wherever a user's pupil isn't aimed, a VR system can dynamically add blur and reduce pixel count in a way that natural peripheral vision might not perceive. And with fewer pixels being rendered, VR software can run at the faster frame rates that the standard demands.

Commercial VR headsets have very little in the way of formal foveated rendering systems, with only select HTC headsets employing the feature—and not in a way universally embraced by VR game developers. Having such an efficient standard on a popular platform like PlayStation, on the other hand, will likely accelerate its adoption."

Sony themselves confirmed PSVR 2 will use eye tracking foveated rendering... Of course it will also enable great stuff in gameplay, especially when interacting with characters.
 
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ZehDon

Member
From Ars Technica :

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/01/sony-confirms-playstation-2-vrs-specs-first-official-game/

"Eye tracking, meanwhile, is advertised primarily as a form of control, so that in-game elements like characters can respond directly to a user's gaze.

But Sony also mentions the technical benefits that eye tracking can bring, as part of a system known as "foveated rendering." With such a system in place, wherever a user's pupil isn't aimed, a VR system can dynamically add blur and reduce pixel count in a way that natural peripheral vision might not perceive. And with fewer pixels being rendered, VR software can run at the faster frame rates that the standard demands. Commercial VR headsets have very little in the way of formal foveated rendering systems, with only select HTC headsets employing the feature—and not in a way universally embraced by VR game developers. Having such an efficient standard on a popular platform like PlayStation, on the other hand, will likely accelerate its adoption."

Sony themselves confirmed PSVR 2 will use eye tracking foveated rendering... Of course it will also enable great stuff in gameplay, especially when interacting with characters.
Nice catch. I was sceptical that Sony had eye-tracked foveated rendering because they didn't emphasise such a core feature and used the overloaded "foveated rendering" term, but, it seems Jim Ryan's presentation was just poorly worded. If they're feeding this to the media, its a safe bet they have it. And eye-tracked foveated rendering is a pretty big win. Not just increased performance, but increased performance without a perceptible drop in clarity thanks to the human brain being weird. This is the kind of work Sony need to future proof the PSVR2 for the console generation ahead. PCVR needs to step up to this feature and soon, it's a rare objective win in all areas and the more devices that support it, the better it'll get.
 
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SLB1904

Member
From Ars Technica :

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/01/sony-confirms-playstation-2-vrs-specs-first-official-game/

"Eye tracking, meanwhile, is advertised primarily as a form of control, so that in-game elements like characters can respond directly to a user's gaze.

But Sony also mentions the technical benefits that eye tracking can bring, as part of a system known as "foveated rendering." With such a system in place, wherever a user's pupil isn't aimed, a VR system can dynamically add blur and reduce pixel count in a way that natural peripheral vision might not perceive. And with fewer pixels being rendered, VR software can run at the faster frame rates that the standard demands. Commercial VR headsets have very little in the way of formal foveated rendering systems, with only select HTC headsets employing the feature—and not in a way universally embraced by VR game developers. Having such an efficient standard on a popular platform like PlayStation, on the other hand, will likely accelerate its adoption."

Sony themselves confirmed PSVR 2 will use eye tracking foveated rendering... Of course it will also enable great stuff in gameplay, especially when interacting with characters.
MrFunSocks MrFunSocks case closed?

edit:also max reacted to it
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
full rdna2 now full eye based foveated rendering... the pr bs you been eating has invaded psvr :messenger_tears_of_joy: wtf is full? you definitely can make anything better just add full before it. means everything ps related isn't full like rdna isn't full now is foveated rendering what next ?
I’ve never mentioned “full rdna” but whatever.

I’ll make it simple for you - nowhere have Sony confirmed eye-tracking based foveated rendering. The ps blog they just made to announce all the specs made no mention of it, or in fact any mention of foveated rendering.

Do you understand?

Eye tracking != eye tracked foveated rendering.

When Sony confirm it has eye based foveated rendering, rather than an article just saying “they told me it can do it “, that’s when it’s case closed.

I don’t know why you guys are getting so angry - I’m not saying it can’t do it. I’m saying we don’t know yet because it hasn’t been confirmed, and their presentation doesn’t list it while specifically mentioning other uses for the eye tracking.
 
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lachesis

Member
For me, it comes down to pricing and simplicity of setup.
Although I don't like wired setup - at least 1 wire (hopefully it's lightweight/flexible & perhaps replaceable) is much more manageable than the original PSVR setup, which was rather nightmarish.
I hope that I don't have to setup the PS camera like the first VR.

And pricing... I am hoping $199 or less on a good sale. $299 would be a good starting point, but not more than that... especially it's main competition is basically the super popular Quest2.

..and hope the setup would be compatible with PC one way or another... although I guess it's pretty much given that someone will figure out a way to run it on a PC, but actual official PC connectivity support would be nice.
 

ethomaz

Banned
No, but something having eye tracking doesn’t necessarily mean it has full eye based foveated rendering. There’s a huge difference between being able to track if a pupil moves left/right/up/down and being able to pinpoint exactly where to render in higher definition.

It’ll be great if PSVR2 has actual full eye tracked foveated rendering, I hope it does because that then forces other companies to have it too and it’ll become the standard going forward. A rising tide lifts all boats and all that.

All I’m saying is that on the PS Blog where they just detailed the specs of PSVR2 it makes no mention of eye tracking FR. The only use it lists for the eye tracking is as additional directional inputs.

Are you with me?
Nobody is with your lies… sorry.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Playing it without the need of stand at a certain distance from a camera is a huge update!

Yah its a game-changer. That’s what we been saying with the Quest for years. Wait till you experience wireless!
 
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TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
The lack of images of the headset is.... disappointing.
In fact isn't this the information we already know?
 

ethomaz

Banned
The lack of images of the headset is.... disappointing.
In fact isn't this the information we already know?
No. We don’t have all these info before.
Sony only shared the controller design.
No name, specs, techs, etc.

The blog post is all new info.
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
There’s only 1 mention of foveated rendering on there, and it makes no mention of eye tracking. In fact there’s a separate eye tracking feature listed there and nothing about foveated rendering in it?

Again, because some people still don’t seem to get it - foveated rendering != eye tracking. The Oculus Quest 2 has foveated rendering too, but not eye tracked foveated rendering. Sony have not confirmed that their headset has eye tracked foveated rendering yet. It absolutely could have it, it would just be nice for some actual official confirmation.
 

bargeparty

Member
There’s only 1 mention of foveated rendering on there, and it makes no mention of eye tracking. In fact there’s a separate eye tracking feature listed there and nothing about foveated rendering in it?

Again, because some people still don’t seem to get it - foveated rendering != eye tracking. The Oculus Quest 2 has foveated rendering too, but not eye tracked foveated rendering. Sony have not confirmed that their headset has eye tracked foveated rendering yet. It absolutely could have it, it would just be nice for some actual official confirmation.

So you think because they mention both foveated rendering and eye tracking that it's not eye based because...
 

ZehDon

Member
For me, it comes down to pricing and simplicity of setup.
Although I don't like wired setup - at least 1 wire (hopefully it's lightweight/flexible & perhaps replaceable) is much more manageable than the original PSVR setup, which was rather nightmarish.
I hope that I don't have to setup the PS camera like the first VR.

And pricing... I am hoping $199 or less on a good sale. $299 would be a good starting point, but not more than that... especially it's main competition is basically the super popular Quest2.

..and hope the setup would be compatible with PC one way or another... although I guess it's pretty much given that someone will figure out a way to run it on a PC, but actual official PC connectivity support would be nice.
Setup should be crazy simple: plug 'n play. Thanks to inside out tracking, the only setup you need to do will set the physical bounds for your VR Area, which you'll do by basically walking around and tracing the outline with the controller. That's it.

As for price, it'll almost certainly be more than USD$399.00 on launch - and that's assuming Sony isn't trying to present this as a "premium" device to jack up the price to USD$499.00. Don't expect a budget price.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
So you think because they mention both foveated rendering and eye tracking that it's not eye based because...
They’re under 2 different sections lol. If it has eye based foveated rendering, why did they not say that? It would be a big selling point. They mention eye tracking for user inputs, why wouldn’t they mention eye tracked foveated rendering which is a much bigger deal?

Again - eye tracking inputs and foveated rendering are not one and the same thing. Them both being on a headset doesn’t automatically mean that the headset can do eye tracked foveated rendering.

All I’m after is Sony confirming that it has it or not. They haven’t done that yet.
 
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