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Sonic Origins won't include Sonic 3 & Knuckles original soundtrack

Sonic Origins won't include the original soundtrack for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. The news was confirmed by Sonic social medi…

www.eurogamer.net

Sonic Origins won't include the original soundtrack for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Instead, the game will now have music tracks from a prototype version, ones that have been repurposed by Sonic series composer Jun Senoue, who got his start with Sonic The Hedgehog 3.

Carnival Night Zone, Ice Cap Zone, Launch Base Zone, S3 Sub-Boss, S3 Knuckles’ Theme, Competition Screen, Sonic 3 Credits.

The news was confirmed by Sonic social media manager Katie Chrzanowski in a Sonic livestream.

 

[Thaedolus]

Well that fucking sucks but it’s not a deal breaker.

 

[Celcius]

Yep I think we all expected this unfortunate news. I’ll be interested to see what Jun can do with the updated tracks…

 

[ManaByte]

If anyone is curious as to why:

 

[Spukc]

Well that fucking sucks but it’s not a deal breaker.

It is

Sonic 3 credits holy shit ripperino

 

[SegaShack]

Those prototype songs are awful, and the OST is amazing. Huge gap in quality.

Jun didn't even work on Sonic 3 (he started with 3D Blast). Don't know why he's "finishing" the demo songs that were already finished for Sonic and Knuckles collection in 97.

This is so disappointing.

 

[93xfan]

Still have Sonic 3& knuckles bc on my Xbox. Thank you ms for saving me money.

So what is the bonus music in the special edition then?

 

[Orta]

No thanks. Try playing something like Crazy Taxi without a licensed soundtrack. Sucks the life out of the game.

Probably won't matter on pc as it'll doubtless be patched in but I ain't going to bother with the Switch version I wanted.

 

[YCoCg]

First off, both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are combined and presented as "Sonic 3 & Knuckles", why is this important? Because even back in 1994 they were replacing some of the Jackson related tracks, when playing as Sonic 3 & Knuckles the game already patches over Knuckles Theme, End Credits, Mini Boss Theme, etc.

Second, the "PC" soundtrack already had Mega Drive mixes as found in a beta ROM, so music from that era is also being sourced.

Third, combining the above information, taking into account what & Knuckles already replaced this means the only music being changed is Carnival Night, Ice Cap and Launch Base.

Three zones out of the entire Sonic 3 & Knuckles ost isn't that bad a loss if they were preventing the game from being released, especially considering the backup music was already made.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Who owns the rights to those tracks now that Michael Jackson is dead?…………. You know what to do

Also I dont understand why they just can’t come to an agreement To use those tracks

 

[YCoCg]

Who owns the rights to those tracks now that Michael Jackson is dead?…………. You know what to do

Also I dont understand why they just can’t come to an agreement To use those tracks

The Jackson Estate have a very inflated ego and want millions to even a billion per track (what Rockstar was quoted for Vice City), and even then it only covers this release, not permanent rights.

 

[Companion Cube]

Who owns the rights to those tracks now that Michael Jackson is dead?…………. You know what to do

Also I dont understand why they just can’t come to an agreement To use those tracks

An agreement sounds like far more work and money than Sega is willing to spend on this rom collection.

 

[Kokoloko85]

The Jackson Estate have a very inflated ego and want millions to even a billion per track (what Rockstar was quoted for Vice City), and even then it only covers this release, not permanent rights.

That sucks.
The soundtrack is so memorable. Ill have to stick to the hacked rom version on my Megadrive Mini

 

[SegaShack]

The Jackson Estate have a very inflated ego and want millions to even a billion per track (what Rockstar was quoted for Vice City), and even then it only covers this release, not permanent rights.

Source?

 

[Saber]

Honestly it didn't bother me since I like the prototype musics alot more.
The problem is how Sega is handling this. Nothing makes me believe the music will be the same, since they said they gonna "rework" those musics. Also its funny just now, one week to release, they are interested in showing important info and its not even covered on official videos.

They are doing all they can to fool people.

 

[Belthazar]

Crazy she was not clear... If these adapting the Sonic 3 original songs or the prototypes.

It somehow sounds like he's just rerecording the originals with different samples to escape the copyright, would be weird for tem to need to redo the prototype in any way as they're already done.

Edit: nevermind, just read Stealth tweets and they're just doing the prototype songs (which were midi) using the FM Synthesizer on the Mega Drive, so it hopefully doesn't sound as bad.

 

[ManaByte]

The Jackson Estate have a very inflated ego and want millions to even a billion per track (what Rockstar was quoted for Vice City), and even then it only covers this release, not permanent rights.

Source?

I don't believe it's the Jackson estate 100%. Brad Buxer's name always comes up when this is delved into so it's possible he has some grip on the rights to the recordings as well.

 

[Fake]

Still have Sonic 3& knuckles bc on my Xbox. Thank you ms for saving me money.

So what is the bonus music in the special edition then?

IDK, but somehow Sonic fans spread over the internet that the special version would come with the MJ music.

Of course SEGA take some time to reveal the game will not have the music because would affect the pre-order. Fucking lack of transparent.

 

[Rykan]

This is very disappointing for big Sonic fans such as myself.

 

[Saber]

Crazy she was not clear... If these adapting the Sonic 3 original songs or the prototypes.

It somehow sounds like he's just rerecording the originals with different samples to escape the copyright, would be weird for tem to need to redo the prototype in any way as they're already done.

Edit: nevermind, just read Stealth tweets and they're just doing the prototype songs (which were midi) using the FM Synthesizer on the Mega Drive, so it hopefully doesn't sound as bad.

He states that gonna do a kinda of reworks on these musics using FM since they think prototype music is "lack of polish" and incomplete. Thats my issue in this case, nothing implicates this might be good, they could even do their take on this music(similar to what happened on Colors Ultimate).

 

[Gambit2483]

So no Angel Island track?? Damn that's going to suck....I hope n pray SEGA can come to some kind of agreement (post launch) with the Jackson estate and whoever else to eventually add these classics songs back in.

 

[radewagon]

Well that fucking sucks but it’s not a deal breaker.

For many, yes. For me, literally a deal breaker. If Sega wanted to really honor these games, they would release them as they originally were. If that means coming to an agreement and paying money to whomever is asking for it, then that's what they need to do. They could even release two versions at two price points. Release an OG version even if it needs to be at an inflated price to make up the difference. Or they could release it as DLC, lord knows they are all-in on stupid DLC for this title. Why not release DLC that matters? Who knows, it might not even be that much. We don't know because we're just being kept in the dark. My hunch is that Sega wants to erase the originals from existence by spending time and resources on redoing the tracks in a way they can pretend are an authentic replacement. That way, they can just keep that new version as the official version.

 

[SomeGit]

So no Angel Island track?? Damn that's going to suck....I hope n pray SEGA can come to some kind of agreement (post launch) with the Jackson estate and whoever else to eventually add these classics songs back in.

Angel Island is unchanged.

Of all the zones in S3K the only ones changing are Carnival Night, Ice Cap and Launch Base; the other songs replaced are the S3 Credits, Mini Boss theme and Knuckles theme, but these might not even be in the game because if they are basing this off S3K they were already replaced with the SK versions. There's also the theme for the competition menu, but not sure how MP is even handled on this version.

 

[Unknown?]

First off, both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are combined and presented as "Sonic 3 & Knuckles", why is this important? Because even back in 1994 they were replacing some of the Jackson related tracks, when playing as Sonic 3 & Knuckles the game already patches over Knuckles Theme, End Credits, Mini Boss Theme, etc.

Second, the "PC" soundtrack already had Mega Drive mixes as found in a beta ROM, so music from that era is also being sourced.

Third, combining the above information, taking into account what & Knuckles already replaced this means the only music being changed is Carnival Night, Ice Cap and Launch Base.

Three zones out of the entire Sonic 3 & Knuckles ost isn't that bad a loss if they were preventing the game from being released, especially considering the backup music was already made.

Yeah I just went and listened to the prototypes for those three and the only one that's better than the prototype is Ice Cap. Launch Base and Carnival Night weren't that good in the first place.

 

[SomeGit]

Yeah I just went and listened to the prototypes for those three and the only one that's better than the prototype is Ice Cap. Launch Base and Carnival Night weren't that good in the first place.

Proto Act 2 for Carnival Night and Launch Base are super good, Hard Times Ice Cap will always be missed but I'd rather have the game be released again than hidden away and forgotten.

Those prototype songs are awful, and the OST is amazing. Huge gap in quality.

Jun didn't even work on Sonic 3 (he started with 3D Blast). Don't know why he's "finishing" the demo songs that were already finished for Sonic and Knuckles collection in 97.

This is so disappointing.

That's not true, he worked on Sonic 3 (and K). Heck, some of his themes like the Act Clear theme, became the default theme for the rest of the series.

 

[Thaedolus]

For many, yes. For me, literally a deal breaker. If Sega wanted to really honor these games, they would release them as they originally were. If that means coming to an agreement and paying money to whomever is asking for it, then that's what they need to do. They could even release two versions at two price points. Release an OG version even if it needs to be at an inflated price to make up the difference. Or they could release it as DLC, lord knows they are all-in on stupid DLC for this title. Why not release DLC that matters? Who knows, it might not even be that much. We don't know because we're just being kept in the dark. My hunch is that Sega wants to erase the originals from existence by spending time and resources on redoing the tracks in a way they can pretend are an authentic replacement. That way, they can just keep that new version as the official version.

For all you know there’s no price the estate or whoever controls the rights is willing to accept. And those songs haven’t been in the games’ rereleases in 20+ years at this point. Don’t get me wrong, they’re vastly superior, but I don’t know the details behind why they aren’t in. Yes it could be something as simple as money, or it could be something else. But it’s not worth getting my panties all in a bunch when the rest of the package looks like a great upgrade.

 

[Ristifer]

I prefer the music originally used for the zones, honestly. Even Carnival Night. The prototype music is cheerful, but that zone is meant to sound more dramatic with the shift in aesthetic from Act I to Act II. It's dark and claustrophobic, so it makes a lot more sense. The Launch Base prototype music is no good to me at all. The Ice Cap music is serviceable, but it'll never beat Hard Times. The prototype music does its thing, but the original music just gives the soundtrack more flavour.

 

[Thabass]

What are you talking about? Modders will just make it so Sonic 3 A.I.R works with it. It will have it eventually.

 

[Belthazar]

For many, yes. For me, literally a deal breaker. If Sega wanted to really honor these games, they would release them as they originally were. If that means coming to an agreement and paying money to whomever is asking for it, then that's what they need to do. They could even release two versions at two price points. Release an OG version even if it needs to be at an inflated price to make up the difference. Or they could release it as DLC, lord knows they are all-in on stupid DLC for this title. Why not release DLC that matters? Who knows, it might not even be that much. We don't know because we're just being kept in the dark. My hunch is that Sega wants to erase the originals from existence by spending time and resources on redoing the tracks in a way they can pretend are an authentic replacement. That way, they can just keep that new version as the official version.

The thing is, the amount of money the MJ estate is asking for is probably way to much that it would make release the game unfeasible.

I mean, if Rockstar couldn't make it work for their GTA rerelease I don't think SEGA would be able to with this collection.

 

[ManaByte]

. And those songs haven’t been in the games’ rereleases in 20+ years at this point.

Not true. They are in the XBLA Sonic 3, the original Steam release, and the DS Sonic compilation. All of those are about a decade ago. It's only been since MJ's death that it hasn't been re-released.

 

[Thaedolus]

Not true. They are in the XBLA Sonic 3, the original Steam release, and the DS Sonic compilation. All of those are about a decade ago. It's only been since MJ's death that it hasn't been re-released.

I thought it was since the OG PC release of Sonic 3 on Windows 98 or whatever, but good to know

 

[Captain Toad]

No thanks. Try playing something like Crazy Taxi without a licensed soundtrack. Sucks the life out of the game.

Yup. You realize Crazy Taxi was never good and you should have just bought Offspring's Ixnay on the Hombre.

 

[Daytonabot]

If anyone is wondering how fast a nanosecond is, it's the amount of time it will take for someone to fix this in the PC version.

 

[Celcius]

Another reason not to buy Origins - they delisted the original Sonic 1, 2, 3 & K, CD on Steam so now you have no choice but to buy this version. If you wanted the original version with the original music WHICH WAS ALREADY ON STEAM then you can't get it anymore... just to try to force people to get this version instead.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I rather play them on Mini then. The collection looks nice, but its not the same. I love the Ice Cap theme.

 

[Nvzman]

For many, yes. For me, literally a deal breaker. If Sega wanted to really honor these games, they would release them as they originally were. If that means coming to an agreement and paying money to whomever is asking for it, then that's what they need to do. They could even release two versions at two price points. Release an OG version even if it needs to be at an inflated price to make up the difference. Or they could release it as DLC, lord knows they are all-in on stupid DLC for this title. Why not release DLC that matters? Who knows, it might not even be that much. We don't know because we're just being kept in the dark. My hunch is that Sega wants to erase the originals from existence by spending time and resources on redoing the tracks in a way they can pretend are an authentic replacement. That way, they can just keep that new version as the official version.

Holy shit if you managed a studio it would burn before you even released a single game.

Dude, if the MJ estate came to the conclusion that MJ's demo tracks were used without SEGA crediting him proper, they would be in absolute deep shit. Like billion dollar lawsuit territory, give how notorious the estate is. This isn't like a GTA situation where the music was completely negotiated and agreed on, this is the fact that it's uncredited tracks that MJ was allegedly "cool" with SEGA using but never had any legal formality to use. Therefore, they would absolutely be fucked in court if the estate felt like being petty.

Normally I'd agree to keep the game as close to the original release as humanly possible, but this is a situation where SEGA would basically have to face tanking their business over 3 tracks. It's absolutely not worth it to anyone remotely aware of the situation.

 

[radewagon]

Holy shit if you managed a studio it would burn before you even released a single game.

Dude, if the MJ estate came to the conclusion that MJ's demo tracks were used without SEGA crediting him proper, they would be in absolute deep shit. Like billion dollar lawsuit territory, give how notorious the estate is. This isn't like a GTA situation where the music was completely negotiated and agreed on, this is the fact that it's uncredited tracks that MJ was allegedly "cool" with SEGA using but never had any legal formality to use. Therefore, they would absolutely be fucked in court if the estate felt like being petty.

Normally I'd agree to keep the game as close to the original release as humanly possible, but this is a situation where SEGA would basically have to face tanking their business over 3 tracks. It's absolutely not worth it to anyone remotely aware of the situation.

Let me get this straight. You're saying if I managed the studio, it would burn to the ground. As an explanation for this claim, you then mention that Sega could be in serious trouble if they had used Michael Jackson's tracks without giving him credit and that they maybe did this because Sega had a non-binding gentlemen's agreement of sorts. And I'm the one whose decisions would burn the studio to the ground? In your scenario, I'm not the one that looks like a bad manager.

I don't really believe that your hypothetical is 100% accurate, but, as I stated in my original post, we don't know what is actually holding things up. We are being kept in the dark. We don't even know if it's an MJ estate problem. Or if it's even just exclusively and MJ estate problem. There are possibly other interested parties as well. All we know is that for some reason the stakeholders involved have not come to an agreement.

 

[Alan Wake]

Still buying.

 

[Needlecrash]

Another reason not to buy Origins - they delisted the original Sonic 1, 2, 3 & K, CD on Steam so now you have no choice but to buy this version. If you wanted the original version with the original music WHICH WAS ALREADY ON STEAM then you can't get it anymore... just to try to force people to get this version instead.

FUUUUUUUUUUCCK. YOU'RE RIGHT. If you have the Sega Genesis Collection you might be good to go. Otherwise, you're fucked. This is really shitty of Sega to pull this.

 

[beatdowniidx]

FUUUUUUUUUUCCK. YOU'RE RIGHT. If you have the Sega Genesis Collection you might be good to go. Otherwise, you're fucked. This is really shitty of Sega to pull this.

sneaky when did they do that? I always use Sonic 3 A.I.R now anyway https://sonic3air.org/
and in all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if someone mods the original OST back in

 

[Harlock]

Is not because music rights, they don´t want any reference to Michael Jackson because the allegations.

BTW this one is the best Billie Jean performance.

 

[Nvzman]

Let me get this straight. You're saying if I managed the studio, it would burn to the ground. As an explanation for this claim, you then mention that Sega could be in serious trouble if they had used Michael Jackson's tracks without giving him credit and that they maybe did this because Sega had a non-binding gentlemen's agreement of sorts. And I'm the one whose decisions would burn the studio to the ground? In your scenario, I'm not the one that looks like a bad manager.

SEGA is doing the right thing for their existence by not bringing it back, yes. Bringing back the MJ tracks would effectively risk a lawsuit.

 

[Krathoon]

This was part of the reason why I bought a Sonic 3 original cartridge a while back. I also got Sonic 3 & Knuckles in the Genesis Collection.

 

[Krathoon]

There is already a mod for Origins that puts the original music back in.