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Some perspective on the Next-Gen: this is how a first year ng exclusive looked like last gen

ripeavocado

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Jul 26, 2020
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Infamous Second Son was release just an handful of months after the launch of Playstation 4 and it looked insane at the time.

It's still one of the best looking games of the generation and it doesn't look sensibly worse than a similar late gen game: Spider-Man by Insomniac (I think it looks better than GoT)







This is how the series looked like on the previous generation, 3 years before:




Where are the Next-Gen games that wow all of us?

The best concrete thing we have seen is a short teaser of a game coming out in 2023 that looks better but not this much better.


Let's face it: this next-gen is half assed, the hardware is not powerful enough, especially on the ray tracing side.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
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Yeah it's a joke honestly. This gen just has felt like more of the same. If it weren't for quick resume or the dualsense, I wouldn't tell the difference tbh. Consoles are like cell phones at this point.

The industry is too focused on hitting resolution and frame rate targets that they don't even give a damn to actually improve visual details or physics.

Somehow the ps4 was way outdated at launch than the ps5 was, yet the new ps5 is showing slower technical growth with games. Maybe developers just have lost their mojo? Who knows. But next gen has been a lie
 

ripeavocado

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Yeah it's a joke honestly. This gen just has felt like more of the same. If it weren't for quick resume or the dualsense, I wouldn't tell the difference tbh. Consoles are like cell phones at this point.

The industry is too focused on hitting resolution and frame rate targets that they don't even give a damn to actually improve visual details or physics.

Somehow the ps4 was way outdated at launch than the ps5 was, yet the new ps5 is showing slower technical growth with games. Maybe developers just have lost their mojo? Who knows. But next gen has been a lie

It's not the industry problem as long as we don't include their shifting from producing top notch tech engine tech to top notch tech to handle live services.

The hardware just isn't there.

We are expecting a 4X resolution jump, the biggest one in many generations with a weak hardware.

And then add that the Ray tracing cores are not very powerful yet so they are helpful but can't make miracles (yet).

I think the pandemic saved their asses, literally there is no reason to upgrade now.
 
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Punished Miku

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Yeah, inFamous and Ground Zeroes were basically all I played on PS for about 3 years though. Literally. I just played Wii U and 3DS that whole time, and replayed inFamous and GZ probably 5x each.

That said, inFamous is one of my favorite PS4 games for sure. Parts of it look better than FFXV even. An insane accomplishment. That's how I knew Ghost would deliver.

This gen isn't all that different really. Demon's Souls and Ratchet. We're not going to see much for probably another 2 years. To think Unreal 5 still isn't even ready. It's going to be years.
 
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ripeavocado

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Jul 26, 2020
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Yeah it's a joke honestly. This gen just has felt like more of the same. If it weren't for quick resume or the dualsense, I wouldn't tell the difference tbh. Consoles are like cell phones at this point.

The industry is too focused on hitting resolution and frame rate targets that they don't even give a damn to actually improve visual details or physics.

Somehow the ps4 was way outdated at launch than the ps5 was, yet the new ps5 is showing slower technical growth with games. Maybe developers just have lost their mojo? Who knows. But next gen has been a lie

The PS4 was not "outdated" at launch.

That's just poor marketing on their part due to the fact that presented it like a PC that had some CPU tradeoffs and no "special sauce"

People on the internet saw some numbers, compared them with a $2000 PC and got that idea.

This time they have been smarter: they have focused on SSD, RT and better presentation so everyone's happy.

The difference is that PS4 has many jaw dropping games released at launch or shortly after, PS5 and XSX have nothing concrete yet other than a small teaser of Spiderman 2 and Hellblade that are yet to provide the wow effect.

Funnily enough in 2013 everyone was talking about "diminishing returns" without any clue, these day almost nobody is despite the lack technically impressive material. Hilarious.
 
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Hunnybun

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I think Ratchet is as impressive now as Infamous was back then.

Returnal and Deathloop also look fantastic, but in both cases a lot of the new processing power is used to achieve 60fps. Personally I think that's the right move because nothing looks truly good in motion at 30fps, regardless of how great it might look in photo mode.

FH5 and Horizon FW also look like huge leaps over last gen, despite being cross gen.

It's true there's not as much out there to show off the systems as last time, but you know, covid. What do you want them to do about that?!

I'd tend to agree about the RT hardware. I'm not at all convinced it's strong enough to justify the sacrifices to resolution and frame rate. For me it wasn't in Ratchet, which I ended up playing in the regular 60fps mode.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
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It's not the industry problem as long as we don't include their shifting from producing top notch tech engine tech to top notch tech to handle live services.

The hardware just isn't there.

We are expecting a 4X resolution jump, the biggest one in many generations with a weak hardware.

And then add that the Ray tracing cores are not very powerful yet so they are helpful but can't make miracles (yet).

I think the pandemic saved their asses, literally there is no reason to upgrade now.
I don't see how the hardware is weak though. I mean maybe it is, but it doesn't make sense to me that the ps4 was weaker at the time, yet we had a bigger jump. Whereas now, the ps5 is stronger at the time, at launch.. so where's the upgrade?

But yeah maybe the pandemic is just an excuse
 

DenchDeckard

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Feb 28, 2021
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Just you wait. Once you experience the power of the ps5 ssd and unstoppable IO you will see that the ssd will draw billions of Graffux to the screen it 120 fps 8k....just you wait.

Gonna go watch the god of war trailer again.

Just a stupid joke guys please don't kill me.

Seriously though I feel this gen will be mainly last gen looking games at 60 fps with some nice little tweaks and closer to 4k.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
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The PS4 was not "outdated" at lunch.

That's just poor marketing on their part due to the fact that presented it like a PC that had some CPU tradeoffs and no "special sauce"

People on the internet saw some numbers, compared them with a $2000 PC and got that idea.

This time they have been smarter: they have focused on SSD, RT and better presentation so everyone's happy.

The difference is that PS4 has many jaw dropping games released at launch or shortly after, PS5 and XSX have nothing concrete yet other than a small teaser of Spiderman 2 and Hellblade that are yet to provide the wow effect.

Funnily enough in 2013 everyone was talking about "diminishing returns" without any clue, these day almost nobody is despite the lack technically impressive material. Hilarious.
I'm not saying the ps4 wasn't a big jump with great looking games right off the bat. I agree with you on that.

I'm just saying that at the time of release, the ps4 was already outdated. Whereas the ps5 isn't. But the ps4 was still a bigger jump - showing that hardware doesn't matter.

At the end of the day if you ask me, I'm more excited for the future in game streaming than gaming hardware. Hardware is a joke
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
Feb 22, 2017
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Its going to take longer, and with dimininishing returns the leap wont be as big.

However if the coalition reach there 60fps goal with the fedlitybof there tech demos, I would be happy with the leap. It is a bit disappointing there is not some next gen showcase yet.
The first true next gen showcases are probably going to be the first bigger UE5 games like gears 6 and hellblade 2 and when sony first party start releasing games on there next gen engines.
 
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ripeavocado

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I'm not saying the ps4 wasn't a big jump with great looking games right off the bat. I agree with you on that.

I'm just saying that at the time of release, the ps4 was already outdated. Whereas the ps5 isn't. But the ps4 was still a bigger jump - showing that hardware doesn't matter.

At the end of the day if you ask me, I'm more excited for the future in game streaming than gaming hardware. Hardware is a joke

PS4 was less outdated than PS5 and XSX are today.

Your are based your judgement on misinterpreted technical details that have been disproven by dozens of games in the last 8 years.

It's was and still is a marketing induced judgement. The lack of it with PS4 and the presence of it on PS5 but the reality is the exact opposite.
 

ripeavocado

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I don't see how the hardware is weak though. I mean maybe it is, but it doesn't make sense to me that the ps4 was weaker at the time, yet we had a bigger jump. Whereas now, the ps5 is stronger at the time, at launch.. so where's the upgrade?

But yeah maybe the pandemic is just an excuse

The PS4 was not weaker.

The standard PS4 game had to run a 2.25x the resolution of a PS3 game and the GPU was sensibly stronger than the one included in the PS3.

The standard PS5 game has to run a 4x the resolution of a PS4 game with a GPU that is strong but not that strong and the RT core that are too weak to be used extensively.
 
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Dec 2, 2018
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I bought a PS4 a year into the generation and only had Dragon Age Inquisition to play for like four months until Bloodborne came out.

I got a PS5 a month and a half after launch and I already have two solid next-gen exclusive titles (Demon's Souls and Returnal), not to mention I can keep playing PS4 games.

There's no comparison which gen is having the better launch.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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Jan 27, 2020
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Infamous Second Son was release just an handful of months after the launch of Playstation 4 and it looked insane at the time.

It's still one of the best looking games of the generation and it doesn't look sensibly worse than a similar late gen game: Spider-Man by Insomniac (I think it looks better than GoT)







This is how the series looked like on the previous generation, 3 years before:




Where are the Next-Gen games that wow all of us?

The best concrete thing we have seen is a short teaser of a game coming out in 2023 that looks better but not this much better.


Let's face it: this next-gen is half assed, the hardware is not powerful enough, especially on the ray tracing side.
 

ripeavocado

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I bought a PS4 a year into the generation and only had Dragon Age Inquisition to play for like four months until Bloodborne came out.

I got a PS5 a month and a half after launch and I already have two solid next-gen exclusive titles (Demon's Souls and Returnal), not to mention I can keep playing PS4 games.

There's no comparison which gen is having the better launch.

if you judge a launch based only on the games you like, your opinion is not relevant to anyone else, plus this thread is not about that so next time read the OP before typing anything, thx
 

Hunnybun

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Ps3 gen brought shades. Ps4 gen brought PBR. This gen was supposed to bring Ray Tracing (for lighting, not for useless reflections), but hardware is not powerful enough.

What do you mean 'was supposed to'?

A couple of years ago nobody expected RT hardware at all. The idea that anyone reasonable was expecting actual proper ray traced GI to become the new standard is nuts. Nobody thought that.

This gen is hopefully gonna be about 60fps, higher resolutions, much more detailed assets and textures, and beautiful long draw distances making everything feel more alive.
 
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Fbh

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Second son was still 30fps though. This gen you aren't getting as big of a graphical jump at launch, but it comes with twice the performance which actually makes them play better.

Second Son was also, IMO, a worse game than Infamous 2 overall. If a less impressive graphical jump is the cost of better games with better gameplay at 60fps, then I think that's a fair tradeoff.
Even when Sony/MS finally stop with the cross gen crap, I hope the focus goes on making next gen gameplay and design instead of just nicer graphics.
 

Hunnybun

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I bought a PS4 a year into the generation and only had Dragon Age Inquisition to play for like four months until Bloodborne came out.

I got a PS5 a month and a half after launch and I already have two solid next-gen exclusive titles (Demon's Souls and Returnal), not to mention I can keep playing PS4 games.

There's no comparison which gen is having the better launch.

This is the thing. Yeah there was the odd good showcase early on, but in general last gen took AGES to get going properly, to get to the point where there was a continuous flow of new next gen looking games.

I think Uncharted ND collection came out autumn 2015, and I played that then and still found the graphics really impressive. But within a year they looked completely dated.
 

NahaNago

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The start of last gen had some ridiculously pretty games near launch. It's going to be tough to compete with that since they are trying to hit 4k and 60 fps this time around.
Lower your expectations for the visuals this gen to merely 4k 60 fps versions of ps4 games.
 
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Dec 2, 2018
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Damn, you really don't read?

This thread is not about metacritic or games you like.
The PS4 wasn't underpowered graphically - its GPU was fine and its RAM was better than expected. It was underpowered in terms of the CPU and obviously it didn't have an SSD.

The PS5 (and XSX) focused on fixing the latter two problems. Current gen consoles are much more balanced.
 
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ripeavocado

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What do you mean 'was supposed to'?

A couple of years ago nobody expected RT hardware at all. The idea that anyone reasonable was expecting actual proper ray traced GI to become the new standard is nuts. Nobody thought that.

This gen is hopefully gonna be about 60fps, higher resolutions, much more detailed assets and textures, and beautiful long draw distances making everything feel more alive.

The first RTX GPUs were unveiled 3 years ago.

Companies had been working on this for years.

Second son was still 30fps though. This gen you aren't getting as big of a graphical jump at launch, but it comes with twice the performance which actually makes them play better.

Second Son was also, IMO, a worse game than Infamous 2 overall. If a less impressive graphical jump is the cost of better games with better gameplay at 60fps, then I think that's a fair tradeoff.
Even when Sony/MS finally stop with the cross gen crap, I hope the focus goes on making next gen gameplay and design instead of just nicer graphics.

The start of last gen had some ridiculously pretty games near launch. It's going to be tough to compete with that since they are trying to hit 4k and 60 fps this time around.
Lower your expectations for the visuals this gen to merely 4k 60 fps versions of ps4 games.

All graphically impressive games of last gen are 30fps so what?

Do you think Spiderman 2 is going to be 60fps only and have amazing graphics?

if the expectation is running PS4 at 4K 60fps then it proves my point.
 
Mar 23, 2013
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Why don't you show some screenshots comparing PS4 Ratchet to PS5? That's a true next generational leap.

And it's really all we have to go on because all the other PS5 games are cross-gen or remakes.
 
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ripeavocado

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The PS4 wasn't underpowered graphically - its GPU was fine and its RAM was better than expected. It was underpowered in terms of the CPU and obviously it didn't have an SSD.

The PS5 (and XSX) focused on fixing the latter two problems. Current gen consoles are much more balanced.

They are underpowered not balanced.

The CPU was not that bad after all, we had many games pushing its limits.
 

ripeavocado

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Why don't you show some screenshots comparing PS4 Ratchet to PS5? That's a true next generational leap.

And it's really all we have to go on because all the other PS5 games are cross-gen or remakes.

Because Ratchet on PS4 was a cheap game that is not considered nowhere near the best looking games of the generation?

Ratchet PS5 is not so great either unless you factor that it has to run on underpowered hardware at 4K

Feel free to post screenshots if you want.
 
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Hunnybun

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The first RTX GPUs were unveiled 3 years ago.

Companies had been working on this for years.





All graphically impressive games of last gen are 30fps so what?

Do you think Spiderman 2 is going to be 60fps only and have amazing graphics?

if the expectation is running PS4 at 4K 60fps then it proves my point.

Your point was that the hardware is "half-assed".

That's not the same thing as the graphical improvement being less than you want because a lot of the power is devoted to increased frame rates. The power being used for stuff you're less interested in doesn't equal the power not being there at all, does it?
 

ripeavocado

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How much do you have to spend to build a comparably performant PC to the PS5 or XSX today?

As you may know we are in a pandemic that has disrupted the tech supply chain and has in turn skyrocketed the price of PC components.

but assuming this wasn't the case you could have built a stronger PC 2 years ago without spending a fortune.
It would have lacked only on the SSD part but not by much.
 

ripeavocado

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Your point was that the hardware is "half-assed".

That's not the same thing as the graphical improvement being less than you want because a lot of the power is devoted to increased frame rates. The power being used for stuff you're less interested in doesn't equal the power not being there at all, does it?

Which games prove your point? games are made for 30fps and offer a 60fps option in some cases.
 

ZehDon

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The game literally renders the surface of the planet you're living on, including virtually every human town, city, and metropolis and presents it all in nearly photo-real quality. There has never been anything like this before. The console version required deep optimisations that yielded strong performance benefits to the PC version as well, so we know the consoles will be able to do games of this scale and quality reliably moving forward. This game landed in the first year of the console's life time, and wasn't made by a first party studio.

You haven't seen anything yet.
 
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kyliethicc

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Pretty sure you're just getting reacting to how PS4 games added PBR, which PS3 games had little to none of. It makes a big difference visually.

But we can't have that jump again tho. Its like going from 2D to 3D or from digital to analog sticks. Its a one time big jump. Its not like RAM where every gen has a nice jump.
 
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REDRZA MWS

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Jan 7, 2018
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Infamous Second Son was release just an handful of months after the launch of Playstation 4 and it looked insane at the time.

It's still one of the best looking games of the generation and it doesn't look sensibly worse than a similar late gen game: Spider-Man by Insomniac (I think it looks better than GoT)







This is how the series looked like on the previous generation, 3 years before:




Where are the Next-Gen games that wow all of us?

The best concrete thing we have seen is a short teaser of a game coming out in 2023 that looks better but not this much better.


Let's face it: this next-gen is half assed, the hardware is not powerful enough, especially on the ray tracing side.
Speak for yourself. I’m much happier with a zen2 cpu over ancient even upon release in 2013 jaguar netbook cpu. Add standard SSD and RDNA2 gpu and I’m happy with the consoles. Everything is much faster, load times, FPS, it’s an overall better experience without question and the games are only going to get better and better.
 
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Kerotan

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The PS4 was not "outdated" at lunch.

That's just poor marketing on their part due to the fact that presented it like a PC that had some CPU tradeoffs and no "special sauce"

People on the internet saw some numbers, compared them with a $2000 PC and got that idea.

This time they have been smarter: they have focused on SSD, RT and better presentation so everyone's happy.

The difference is that PS4 has many jaw dropping games released at launch or shortly after, PS5 and XSX have nothing concrete yet other than a small teaser of Spiderman 2 and Hellblade that are yet to provide the wow effect.

Funnily enough in 2013 everyone was talking about "diminishing returns" without any clue, these day almost nobody is despite the lack technically impressive material. Hilarious.
Ratchet is jaw dropping.
 

ripeavocado

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Speak for yourself. I’m much happier with a zen2 cpu over ancient even upon release in 2013 jaguar netbook cpu. Add standard SSD and RDNA2 gpu and I’m happy with the consoles. Everything is much faster, load times, FPS, it’s an overall better experience without question and the games are only going to get better and better.

netbook cpu lmao...

Man you clearly don't know how things work on the technical side but you say you are happier without a true generational leap just because the OS is faster, you can play old gen games at 60fps and have shorter loading times?

$500 well spent for what could have been a PS4 Pro 2, what can I say :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Hunnybun

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Which games prove your point? games are made for 30fps and offer a 60fps option in some cases.

Prove my point that a lot of the processing power has been used for higher frame rates?


Errrr, how about all the ones that target 60fps, which is almost all of them so far?!

Returnal, Deathloop, Demon's Souls.

Pretty much the only one that doesn't is Ratchet, which looks incredible, in native 4K, and with relatively impressive RT on top.

In either case your argument that the hardware just isn't adequate is debunked.
 
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ripeavocado

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The game literally renders the surface of the planet you're living on, including virtually every human town, city, and metropolis and presents it all in nearly photo-real quality. There has never been anything like this before. The console version required deep optimisations that yielded strong performance benefits to the PC version as well, so we know the consoles will be able to do games of this scale and quality reliably moving forward. This game landed in the first year of the console's life time, and wasn't made by a first party studio.

You haven't seen anything yet.

I feel the marketing coming out in your post.

The Flight Simulator series has had the full planet and satellite imagery as early as the 90s

FS2020 just downloads Bing Maps data made of satellite and actual pictures on demand, it has nothing to do with the console hardware. If you play without a broadband connection you will see drastically inferior cities because there will be no data downloaded (and they haven't improved the autogen that much since FSX in 2006 because their goal was to use bing maps anyway)

This is the first AAA Flight Simulator in 14 years so yeah, it was several generational leaps in its niche.

The jump you guys want would bankrupt this industry. And most of you can't even stomach a ten dollar increase.

Why would a better hardware bankrupt the industry?

Why are you defending price increases when the big AAA publishers have never been so profitable?
 

ripeavocado

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Prove my point that a lot of the processing power has been used for higher frame rates?


Errrr, how about all the ones that target 60fps, which is almost all of them so far?!

Returnal, Deathloop, Demon's Souls.

Pretty much the only one that doesn't is Ratchet, which looks incredible, in native 4K, and with relatively impressive RT on top.

In either case your argument that the hardware just isn't adequate is debunked.

Returnal and Deathloop are quite ugly and worse than many PS4 titles.

Demon's Souls only runs at native 4K at 30fps and is a remake of a 2 generations old game.

Ratched is not that amazing and definitely not a great generational leap but feel free to believe that it is.
 

Hunnybun

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Returnal and Deathloop are quite ugly and worse than many PS4 titles.

Demon's Souls only runs at native 4K at 30fps and is a remake of a 2 generations old game.

Ratched is not that amazing and definitely not a great generational leap but feel free to believe that it is.

Lol Returnal and Deathloop are both gorgeous games and significantly better anything on last gen.

I'll let others defend Demon's Souls because I was never that taken with the graphics, but I seem to be in a very small minority. I'll just note that running at 4k30 is basically equivalent to 1440p60 so your rebuttal, such as it was, is irrelevant.

If you don't think Ratchet is a big leap then that's your opinion but I'm not gonna start posting screens and begging you to change your mind. Suffice to say that to me it looks staggeringly beautiful in basically every context I've seen it, and almost everyone else seems to agree, so...
 
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