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[v_iHuGi]

Sony seems to be doing better than ever, where do you think they should invest next to further fortify their financials?

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Sony - 46 Year Stock Price History | SNE

• The all-time high Sony stock closing price was 156.75 on February 29, 2000.
• The Sony 52-week high stock price is 99.53, which is 2.8% above the current share price.
• The Sony 52-week low stock price is 50.94, which is 47.4% below the current share price.
• The average Sony stock price for the last 52 weeks is 73.44.

 

[00_Zer0]

They should invest in the OT section of the forum.

 

[Unknown?]

Well they already have the music industry pretty much. I guess they would invest in SIE and Pictures? SIE for sure but not sure where they'd invest elsewhere.

 

[Kdad]

Besides buying SEGA on Wednesdays?

 

[Elios83]

Don't read too much into it.
Sony is about to go out of business and only Playstation makes profits in the whole company and they can't afford to make any acquisition
Btw yeah the pandemic has kinda helped all the home entertainment companies this year also Kaz before and now the new CEO are both making wonders.

 

[Robins]

Put all their PlayStation, camera, audio and TV technology into a well priced phone and advertise the thing ?

 

[yurinka]

I think they should merge all their movies and TV content (Sony Pictures, Crunchyroll, Funimation...) into a single streaming app, and to buy Bluepoint, Remedy, Kojipro, Housemarque and if possible (it should be hard) From Software Ready At Dawn and Quantic Dream.

 

[v_iHuGi]

I think they should merge all their movies and TV content (Sony Pictures, Crunchyroll, Funimation...) into a single streaming app, and to buy Bluepoint, Remedy, Kojipro, Housemarque and if possible (it should be hard) From Software Ready At Dawn and Quantic Dream.

Seems good fit these devs.

 

[Zathalus]

Buy more world class studios to add to Playstation Studios. Bluepoint to start off with, Kojima Productions and Remedy (Control was awesome) as well.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Probably not going to invest in anything too exciting to us hardcore home console gamers.

 

[Clarissa]

Don't read too much into it.
Sony is about to go out of business and only Playstation makes profits in the whole company and they can't afford to make any acquisition

FAKE NEWS!!!
THIS CAN'T BE TRUE!!! Playstation is making huge losses with ps5 according to my friend. He says that PS5 is a colossal failure, gets outsold by Nintendo Switch every week, that the PS5 is not real RDNA 2, dualsense triggers are failing and Sony is bleeding a lot of money with every ps5 sold and many developers are leaving Sony.

So Sony is definitely losing money everywhere to the extent that Microsoft is going to buy out Sony.


Red is my friend.
Green and brown are unimportant people.

 

[jroc74]

I read this as SNES and said Nintendo is doing alright with the Switch....

Yes, it makes no kind of sense.

 

[Captain Toad]

I really don't care much how Sony does as a company. I care even less about Microsoft, seeing as gaming is just a small potion of that company. MS has always been rich, but struggled when compared against PlayStation and Nintendo.

Same with other big companies that dabbled in games in the past such as Panasonic or Phillips. Or those doing it now like Google or Amazon.

Tell me how PlayStation and Xbox are doing and I'm interested. Nintendo too, since basically everything they do is, in some way, related to video games.

 

[Komatsu]

From a low of 58 USD earlier in the year, they are doing mighty fine. Regretting the fact I dropped my SNE holdings back in May.

Still, if we are talking about tech as a whole - and Sony seems to be positioning itself as a full-spectrum services and tech company, particularly in the imaging field - their market cap (122 billion) is still not up to snuff with the true giants: Apple (2 trillion), Amazon (1,6 trillion), Microsoft (1,7 trillion). They are a big fish in a small pond (video games) but a tiny fish in the big-ass aquarium that is technology and services.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Seems good fit these devs.

Unrealistic one though. RaD is already owned by Facebook. From Software is a reputable multiplat developer and also has a growing focus on PC. Housemarque makes sense and is likely in some negotiation phase with Sony for acquisition, same with Bluepoint.

Remedy is unlikely mainly because they mostly focus on a niche Sony already has several 1P studios for (single-player story-driven games), Kojima Productions is a wildcard and we've been hearing rumors of both Sony and Microsoft possibly getting them. Quantic Dream is a fringe possibility but again, they mainly do a style of game Sony has a good amount of 1P to cover though it could work out as studios like Guerrilla and ND don't necessarily do story-driven games in the game design template Quantic Dream does.

 

[v_iHuGi]

From a low of 58 USD earlier in the year, they are doing mighty fine. Regretting the fact I dropped my SNE holdings back in May.

Still, if we are talking about tech as a whole - and Sony seems to be positioning itself as a full-spectrum services and tech company, particularly in the imaging field - their market cap (122 billion) is still not up to snuff with the true giants: Apple (2 trillion), Amazon (1,6 trillion), Microsoft (1,7 trillion). They are a big fish in a small pond (video games) but a tiny fish in the big-ass aquarium that is technology and services.

Sony is undervalued and stock should go up substantially in the next years. Sony is already positioning themselves for the future with a pillar in everything, they even have Anime now and Anime should get pretty damn huge in the next few years.

Seems like Sony will become a juggernaut sooner rather than later, unless they fuck up like they did before so i guess too early to say.

 

[Great Hair]

Ready At Dawn

‘The Order 1886’ And ‘Lone Echo’ Developer Ready At Dawn Acquired By Facebook

The Order 1886 and Lone Echo developer Ready At Dawn has been acquired by Facebook, becoming the latest in a list of studios engulfed into the Oculus family.

www.forbes.com

too late. :/

 

[Bryank75]

From a low of 58 USD earlier in the year, they are doing mighty fine. Regretting the fact I dropped my SNE holdings back in May.

Still, if we are talking about tech as a whole - and Sony seems to be positioning itself as a full-spectrum services and tech company, particularly in the imaging field - their market cap (122 billion) is still not up to snuff with the true giants: Apple (2 trillion), Amazon (1,6 trillion), Microsoft (1,7 trillion). They are a big fish in a small pond (video games) but a tiny fish in the big-ass aquarium that is technology and services.

Those three you mentioned are mature stocks and all based in the US.

Japan was in a deep recession for 20 years until recently and Sony is the countries 4th most valuable company and is approaching number 3 very quickly.

If they make smart moves and the Japanese economy keeps moving in a positive direction, I could see them reaching above 250 billion, the kinda territory where Disney treads.

I wouldn't like Sony to go to the 1 Trillion plus regions because every company above that is massively overvalued and included in every indexed / mutual fund.

 

[Azelover]

What a great turn of events! Back when the PS3 first came out, I really thought it was all over.

It wasn't just the PS3, the whole company was having a tough time.

 

[megreotsugua]

I wouldn't like Sony to go to the 1 Trillion plus regions because every company above that is massively overvalued and included in every indexed / mutual fund.

What does that mean if you don't mind?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I think they should merge all their movies and TV content (Sony Pictures, Crunchyroll, Funimation...) into a single streaming app, and to buy Bluepoint, Remedy, Kojipro, Housemarque and if possible (it should be hard) From Software Ready At Dawn and Quantic Dream.

From Software is owned by Kadokawa who also has a massive anime studio and manga publishing arms. With Sony’s appetite for owning everything anime, they should buy the whole of Kadokawa. It would fit in very nicely with their operations as a company.

 

[megreotsugua]

What a great turn of events! Back when the PS3 first came out, I really thought it was all over.

It wasn't just the PS3, the whole company was having a tough time.

Sony's financial services was its saving grace.

Sony's brand was still recognizable even during its tough times. It was a matter resizing down to a size that would support the amount of products they could still sell. And they did wind down operation and market presence. But now they're again looking into growth.

 

[megreotsugua]

From Software is owned by Kadokawa who also has a massive anime studio and manga publishing arms. With Sony’s appetite for owning everything anime, they should buy the whole of Kadokawa. It would fit in very nicely with their operations as a company.

That would be a genius move. How much would they sell though? I'd imagine they be in the $5-10B range.

 

[wipeout364]

Hard to know whether it's a good buy right now as the market is crazy. Sony has playstation, financial services, and then things are more complicated, they missed the boat on streaming services despite having a lot of content, box office is dead so they will have a more difficult time monetizing their product, they failed in creating a music service and now are left behind with only production and licensing since sales of music have tanked, they were first to market in game streaming but essentially failed to launch, their TV business is legacy essentially, their phone business is dead, they bailed on computer production. They maintain a healthy camera and lens business.

Their best play would be to try to expand services and try to re enter the streaming music business but Spotify and apple music have it locked down, they could make a play for Pandora/Sirius. As far as their movie/TV content they should bundle it with PSnow/PSplus/crunchy roll/Columbia pictures/ Sony pictures and TV studios/funimation, then try to acquire some content for their TV movie service. That's my opinion.

Sony management has always seemed to me to look at the now and not to the future, they tend to lack a long term vision therefore lack commitment to projects, Microsoft was like this under Balmer and it slowly kills companies.

 

[Genx3]

Great news.
It's always good to hear that the hard work put in by people in this industry has paid off.

 

[Genx3]

Hopefully Sony can bring us some TV's with better features to compete with the LG OLED's.
That should bring them another boost.

 

[v_iHuGi]

Hard to know whether it's a good buy right now as the market is crazy. Sony has playstation, financial services, and then things are more complicated, they missed the boat on streaming services despite having a lot of content, box office is dead so they will have a more difficult time monetizing their product, they failed in creating a music service and now are left behind with only production and licensing since sales of music have tanked, they were first to market in game streaming but essentially failed to launch, their TV business is legacy essentially, their phone business is dead, they bailed on computer production. They maintain a healthy camera and lens business.

Their best play would be to try to expand services and try to re enter the streaming music business but Spotify and apple music have it locked down, they could make a play for Pandora/Sirius. As far as their movie/TV content they should bundle it with PSnow/PSplus/crunchy roll/Columbia pictures/ Sony pictures and TV studios/funimation, then try to acquire some content for their TV movie service. That's my opinion.

Sony management has always seemed to me to look at the now and not to the future, they tend to lack a long term vision therefore lack commitment to projects, Microsoft was like this under Balmer and it slowly kills companies.

Wut their pic & Music division are doing great, they don't need a streaming service they'll keep make billions licensing movies series music, that was always the plan.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

That would be a genius move. How much would they sell though? I'd imagine they be in the $5-10B range.

Their current market cap is around 224B JPY == around 2.2B USD.

So it seems like they’d be a steal for Sony.

 

[yurinka]

From Software is owned by Kadokawa who also has a massive anime studio and manga publishing arms. With Sony’s appetite for owning everything anime, they should buy the whole of Kadokawa. It would fit in very nicely with their operations as a company.

Yeah, it would be great and a good fit. And would help them to produce animes and mangas using PlayStation IPs.

‘The Order 1886’ And ‘Lone Echo’ Developer Ready At Dawn Acquired By Facebook

The Order 1886 and Lone Echo developer Ready At Dawn has been acquired by Facebook, becoming the latest in a list of studios engulfed into the Oculus family.

www.forbes.com

too late. :/

I know. But maybe Facebook realizes in a few years that their own VR games aren't profitable and decide to sell their gamedev studios. Or I don't know, maybe Sony can hire some of their best talent and create a new studio for them.

 

[Komatsu]

Those three you mentioned are mature stocks and all based in the US.

Japan was in a deep recession for 20 years until recently and Sony is the countries 4th most valuable company and is approaching number 3 very quickly.

Don't disagree at all with your assessment but Sony has been listed in the NYSE for 52 years and its fastest growing years were between 1999 and 2001, when it touched right above 100 USD in 2000 money. It's the very definition of a mature stock. Sony stock is what Japanese obaasans invest in when the salaryman husband passes away - that, Mitsui, Matsushita (now Panasonic), Nippon Steel. Kind of like Bell stock here in the States back before deregulation, which makes sense, as the Japanese market is not nearly as open as that of the other G8 economies.

 

[v_iHuGi]

Their current market cap is around 224B JPY == around 2.2B USD.

So it seems like they’d be a steal for Sony.

Yeah that´s a cheap price for current Sony for sure but Sony focus on Anime seems so steep, more resources on SIE would be cool.

 

[Bryank75]

Don't disagree at all with your assessment but Sony has been listed in the NYSE for 52 years and its fastest growing years were between 1999 and 2001, when it touched right above 100 USD in 2000 money. It's the very definition of a mature stock. Sony stock is what Japanese obaasans invest in when the salaryman husband passes away - that, Mitsui, Matsushita (now Panasonic), Nippon Steel. Kind of like Bell stock here in the States back before deregulation, which makes sense, as the Japanese market is not nearly as open as that of the other G8 economies.

Yeah, that is true but over the past 10 years the company has transitioned from being an electronics company to being more focused on entertainment and services.

It's certainly not the same company it was back in the late 90's. Which would have been comparable to the Samsung of it's day.

 

[DeepEnigma]

My portfolio is pleased with this, especially when I bought a shitload when it was in the $50s. And yes, I do believe it is undervalued as well.

 

[Bryank75]

In terms of cash on hand..... they seem to be stockpiling cash for some reason. I believe they may have some large acquisition they are aiming for..... probably in music, film or gaming. Not sure which....

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Yeah, it would be great and a good fit. And would help them to produce animes and mangas using PlayStation IPs.


I know. But maybe Facebook realizes in a few years that their own VR games aren't profitable and decide to sell their gamedev studios. Or I don't know, maybe Sony can hire some of their best talent and create a new studio for them.

And PlayStation games using anime and manga IP too

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Yeah that´s a cheap price for current Sony for sure but Sony focus on Anime seems so steep, more resources on SIE would be cool.

Kadokawa corp has a games division which includes From Software, among a handful of other devs. Buying the parent corp would allow them to roll all those devs into SIE WWS.

 

[Bryank75]

Yeah, it would be great and a good fit. And would help them to produce animes and mangas using PlayStation IPs.


I know. But maybe Facebook realizes in a few years that their own VR games aren't profitable and decide to sell their gamedev studios. Or I don't know, maybe Sony can hire some of their best talent and create a new studio for them.

Yeah, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne and Gravity Rush would all suit having Anime shows...

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Yeah, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne and Gravity Rush would all suit having Anime shows...

Heck... even Demon’s Souls too. A grimdark DS anime? I’d pay a high price to watch that.

 

[v_iHuGi]

Kadokawa corp has a games division which includes From Software, among a handful of other devs. Buying the parent corp would allow them to roll all those devs into SIE WWS.

Totally forgot they own FS, god damn....

 

[Bryank75]

Totally forgot they own FS, god damn....

It makes too much sense for them to buy them... they must make it happen but I don't know if Jim is knowledgeable enough to do it. It might have to come from someone else....

 

[Weiji]

Alright let’s do some simple analysis:

SNE Sony Corporation Stock Quote

Stock screener for investors and traders, financial visualizations.

finviz.com

Revenue growth is basically none existent.

Price to sales is pretty cheap. So price is in line with sales expectations, or even a little below, very reasonable.

Earnings this year look pretty great and PE is a very favorable 13.56, but next year earnings are expected to drop substantially, leading to a pretty high 27 forward PE.

Cash from operations is very strong, and growing on average ~10% per year.

Balance sheet is decent with liabilities at about 82% of assets, 83% if you strip out intangibles.

Liabilities however far outstrip earnings. Based on current EPS it would take ~ 20 years for Sony to pay off their debt, but this year was better then most, based on next year’s earnings that number balloons to ~34 years.

So overall I would pass. Based on their current earnings and their balance sheet will be fine, but they have to much leverage for me at the current price. If you’re looking for an entry point I’d say wait until PS5 hype dies down. They’re fine if you believe in their long term business, but I would suggest waiting for a price closer to $60, preferably closer to $50 given their debt to earnings ratio and lack of growth.

 

[Bryank75]

Alright let’s do some simple analysis:

SNE Sony Corporation Stock Quote

Stock screener for investors and traders, financial visualizations.

finviz.com

Revenue growth is basically none existent.

Price to sales is pretty cheap. So price is in line with sales expectations, or even a little below, very reasonable.

Earnings this year look pretty great and PE is a very favorable 13.56, but next year earnings are expected to drop substantially, leading to a pretty high 27 forward PE.

Cash from operations is very strong, and growing on average ~10% per year.

Balance sheet is decent with liabilities at about 82% of assets, 83% if you strip out intangibles.

Liabilities however far outstrip earnings. Based on current EPS it would take ~ 20 years for Sony to pay off their debt, but this year was better then most, based on next year’s earnings that number balloons to ~34 years.

So overall I would pass. Based on their current earnings and their balance sheet will be fine, but they have to much leverage for me at the current price. If you’re looking for an entry point I’d say wait until PS5 hype dies down. They’re fine if you believe in their long term business, but I would suggest waiting for a price closer to $60, preferably closer to $50 given their debt to earnings ratio and lack of growth.

Just looking at the surface revenue won't really do the business justice, since there has been a lot of restructuring over the past 7 or so years. For instance PC / laptops are gone and mobile has been downsized considerably.... consumer electronics has been spun-off but is still part of the overall corporation (It is expected to be self-sufficient).

So they are downsizing or eliminating businesses that are low margin and replacing with higher margin, more profitable businesses. Finance for instance makes excellent money for Sony and is almost as big as Gaming but only became a wholly owned subsidiary in the past few months. Previously they only owned 60% and therefore didnt see all the profits.

I would say that Sony is a complicated beast and you really have to do a deep dive to understand the overall potential.

 

[Thaedolus]

FAKE NEWS!!!
THIS CAN'T BE TRUE!!! Playstation is making huge losses with ps5 according to my friend. He says that PS5 is a colossal failure, gets outsold by Nintendo Switch every week, that the PS5 is not real RDNA 2, dualsense triggers are failing and Sony is bleeding a lot of money with every ps5 sold and many developers are leaving Sony.

So Sony is definitely losing money everywhere to the extent that Microsoft is going to buy out Sony.


Red is my friend.
Green and brown are unimportant people.

What the fucking fuck is going on with that background

 

[Weiji]

Just looking at the surface revenue won't really do the business justice, since there has been a lot of restructuring over the past 7 or so years. For instance PC / laptops are gone and mobile has been downsized considerably.... consumer electronics has been spun-off but is still part of the overall corporation (It is expected to be self-sufficient).

So they are downsizing or eliminating businesses that are low margin and replacing with higher margin, more profitable businesses. Finance for instance makes excellent money for Sony and is almost as big as Gaming but only became a wholly owned subsidiary in the past few months. Previously they only owned 60% and therefore didnt see all the profits.

I would say that Sony is a complicated beast and you really have to do a deep dive to understand the overall potential.

Point well taken. My analysis is surface level for sure.

I think the strong increase in cash flows speak to them having good management and the business consolidation doing its work on margins. Do you know if their forward EPS of of 4.5 includes full ownership of the finance subsidiary?

That debt is hard to get over and it’s definitely suppressing their p/s ratio. If they’re able to improve the ratio of earnings to total liabilities by spinning off some lines of business, p/s could improve dramatically. Without a detailed look into what they’ve done so far, I do not think it’s worth the execution risk.

 

[Bryank75]

Point well taken. My analysis is surface level for sure.

I think the strong increase in cash flows speak to them having good management and the business consolidation doing its work on margins. Do you know if their forward EPS of of 4.5 includes full ownership of the finance subsidiary?

That debt is hard to get over and it’s definitely suppressing their p/s ratio. If they’re able to improve the ratio of earnings to total liabilities by spinning off some lines of business, p/s could improve dramatically. Without a detailed look into what they’ve done so far, I do not think it’s worth the execution risk.

Not sure about the EPS but I do know that Yoshida (CEO, previous CFO) is very very conservative and likes to give low forecasts and then come in above it.

In terms of debt, I think their debt is very low if you look at it.... however other liabilities are high due to some of the businesses they are involved in. Businesses that involve massive shipments of components, WIP etc will always cause it to have a less favorable ratio.

I do know that the management have a very longterm view and they probably have a plan for improving all performance indicators but I am not sure how it will shake out exactly.... probably even more focus on entertainment.

I could see them wanting to buy Lions Gate or MGM to add to their film business. Maybe even ViacomCBS....

They are building their cash up for something...

 

[Deleted member 801069]

Some IP that isn’t a movie video game

 

[ManofOne]

It P/CF is ranked fairly strong alongside Operating casfhlow, so its a worthy stock

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Push their chips into gaming.

I think the market is still exploding. Sony should invest in what they're best at.

 

[yurinka]

Yeah, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne and Gravity Rush would all suit having Anime shows...

Yeah, they even could do something in a minor scale with Demon''s Souls, Gran Turismo, Parappa or Loco Roco. Or with western IPs like The Last of Us, Uncharted, God of War, Horizon, Little Big Planet and so on.

And considering Sony Pictures works in Resident Evil, Monster Hunter or Metal Gear movies they could even use 3rd party IPs. I mean, as Capcom fan I know there has been many Street Fighter, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry etc. mangas and some animes. And now many 3rd parties like Capcom or Ubisoft are working on a ton of game inspired movies or tv shows, real action or animated.

And PlayStation games using anime and manga IP too

Yes. Kadokawa published mangas and animes of very popular brands with a good fit for videogames but I don't know if they own these brands.

Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion Gundam, Macross, Kill La Kill, Record of Lodoss War, Samurai Champloo... some of them already had videogames but pretty small or low quality compared to what Sony could do with their 1st party AAA budget and top tier talent.