Shmunter
Member
He is independent however. Others like Skillup and our own ACG can freely speak also.
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Six Days in Fallujah - Official Gameplay Reveal Trailer (Tactical FPS with Procedurally Generated Mission Spaces)
- Thread starter Grand Theft Scratchy
- Start date
- Trailer
Reality Czar
Banned
kuncol02
Banned
Except all games where it was, like whole genre of roguelikes, Spelunky, Left 4 Dead (AI director is form of procedural generation) and many more.
I wish the best of luck to Marty and all the developers but I’m skeptical this project will actually deliver a nuanced and realistic depiction of these events as the marketing seems to paint the game as a tale of heroism and stuff. I would be fine if the events portrayed were fictional, but we’re talking war crimes here. These tragedies should be handled with care especially if you’re putting the player inside the shoes of a soldier of the faction which perpetrated these crimes, but nothing so far seems to suggest that.
I wish to be proven wrong once the game releases.
I wish to be proven wrong once the game releases.
Shmunter
Member
If games media tanks the reviews due to politics and it comes out the game was nothing but a high brow affair, shit will come crashing down.
thismeinteil
Member
I think the real issue is companies don't want anymore competition. If this is really well made, this could become a big hit. COD, Battlefield, and Rainbow 6 just don't want anymore competition, especially if it pushes things further in the war game genre. They might have to adapt their copy paste mechanics to meet possible demand for those features. So they'll use their "journalist" cronies to push the message about how immoral this is, and the snowflake SJWs will of course run with it, cause when have they met a moral outrage they didn't like.
Reality Czar
Banned
I really don’t get this “it would be ok if it was a fictional war” take. Sounds very cowardly. You can’t handle media that touches on historic events? Unless they portray a specific viewpoint? That is quite totalitarian.
SkylineRKR
Member
This game does look very dated, but chances are outlets won't give it a chance even if its legit good. They will probably point toward RB6 and the like being superior experiences. Which is a shame because like sports, the FPS genre doesn't go much further than CoD, BF, RB6 anymore either.
Alpha Pansexual Pearce won't recommend it because you see, if she recommends it her career is in jeopardy.
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mrBarrelNut
Member
Looks promising and quite realistic. And by realistic I mean shooting, flanking and the importance of suppressive fire etc. and not just graphics. Also shooting distances look realistic when it comes to urban warfare. Definitely interested.
I am completely uninterested in consuming a product that looks so ideologically aligned with US propaganda. Maybe it’s because I am not from the US, but it is simply jarring to me seeing these events portrayed in such a light when these war crimes have been condemned by pretty much every country outside of the US.
At worst, this is an attempt at historical revisionism, and at best the idea of empathising with the soldiers who took part in the events still sounds like propaganda to me.
At the cost of repeating myself, I’ll be happy to be proven wrong. If this turns to be anything like spec ops the line in a real events setting, I will have no criticism directed at this game. But so far the marketing seems to be suggesting the complete opposite.
I don’t understand where is the cowardice in not being interested in a product that doesn’t resonate with me. I’m not interested in cancelling the game, I’m just sharing my honest criticism. You guys enjoy what you like.
Reality Czar
Banned
You're "honest criticism" is an emotional response to marketing and outrage. Emotional because there is no actual first hand knowledge of the game being taken into account. You have not even played the game yet. It is not an informed criticism. You are working off emotion, which is what marketing and media coverage is all about. It is just you jumping to conclusions.
Look it is fine if you want to do that, and keep repeating "war crimes" over and over like you already know how this game will present everything. I'm just pointing out the anti-intellectualism inherent in that take, which you seem to keep doubling down on, despite not having any more of a first-hand experience with the game.
The "cowardice" is you pre-judging a thing that you are ignorant of. That is intellectual cowardice. "I heard this book is crap and the marketing sucks so fuck this book" is not an intellectual approach to media.
You don't have to "consume it" unless you want to give an informed take. Until then you are literally talking about something don't have first hand knowledge of. The take you are giving is not informed. You are calling the game propaganda without even seeing it. I'm just calling that out for what it is.
Look it is fine if you want to do that, and keep repeating "war crimes" over and over like you already know how this game will present everything. I'm just pointing out the anti-intellectualism inherent in that take, which you seem to keep doubling down on, despite not having any more of a first-hand experience with the game.
The "cowardice" is you pre-judging a thing that you are ignorant of. That is intellectual cowardice. "I heard this book is crap and the marketing sucks so fuck this book" is not an intellectual approach to media.
You don't have to "consume it" unless you want to give an informed take. Until then you are literally talking about something don't have first hand knowledge of. The take you are giving is not informed. You are calling the game propaganda without even seeing it. I'm just calling that out for what it is.
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I have specifically said in both my comments that this is the impression I get from the promotional material of this game, and that I’ll be happy to be proven wrong (see, I said it for the third time) if the final product will be any different than what I’ve seen so far. Your response is very confusing to me because you’re putting words I have never said in my mouth.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Excuse my ignorance but what are the alleged war crimes here?
Are they alleged or has there been trials or what? Not aware of how any of this works.
Is there any indication that the game will mention the war crimes or have content related to them?
It all seems a bit sketchy to me and I wonder how well educated critics of the game really are on the subject.
Like the petition to have Biden intervene and ban the game? Didn't Biden actually vote for the war though?
That's a strange place to be in, I think. Asking if the game should even be made just months after voting for the guy who was in favor of the war which is being depicted possible in the first place.
There is of course a lot of noise caused by the resetera idiots calling for the game to be cancelled or making petitions for Biden to ban the game.
Most controversies concerning the battle are related to (but not limited to) the use of white phosphorus in battle against human targets, which violates the 1980 CCW Convention on the use of incendiary weapons.
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It's basically understood that the US/UK did use white phosphorus
MoD asked Red Cross to look into Iraq birth defects
Letter reveals Government wanted charity to investigate claims following Fallujah attacks
www.independent.co.uk
The US doesn't really want their citizen tried for war crimes and no one really wants to force them to. The whole torture isn't torture cause we do it.
Not mention of white phosphorus in the game (personally a bit concerning)
Biden voted for the war yes.
Personally the game is a bit concerning due to the lack of mention of white phosphorus (he ignores it cause none of the interviews mentioned it, well not likely cause it's a like war crime). I am kinda interested in the civilian interviews and their plan to have the two (us and iraqi civilian) stories overlapping.
P. S. I have an anecdotal evidence of getting a visa being more painful for writers whom have been critical of US foreign policy, it's possible that kinda of information reached alannah.
Also I am not calling for this game to be banned and don't think any press has yet.
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Shmunter
Member
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RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Thanks. I am pretty sure COD Modern Warfare had this same controversy over white phosphorus in 2019 or 2020?
I wonder if it is just ramped up here because its not such a huge developer or publisher so there's a chance to get a "win" for activism.
I think if the game is pro-USA propaganda or military propaganda or whatever then that's obviously a valid criticism. However its a criticism for when the game comes out.
The whole gaming journalism industry is really a bit weird when it comes to stuff like this. Like they somehow see their role as gatekeepers or watchmen in some way.
I wonder if it is just ramped up here because its not such a huge developer or publisher so there's a chance to get a "win" for activism.
I think if the game is pro-USA propaganda or military propaganda or whatever then that's obviously a valid criticism. However its a criticism for when the game comes out.
The whole gaming journalism industry is really a bit weird when it comes to stuff like this. Like they somehow see their role as gatekeepers or watchmen in some way.
cormack12
Gold Member
So much bullshit about this game lol - noticw the way the eliipse the context of the quote out of the text and attach it to an image instead.....
www.gamesindustry.biz
Six Days in Fallujah dev: "I don't think we need to portray the atrocities"
"After things exploded in 2009, I effectively left the industry in 2011... [But] I felt an obligation to those [Marines…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Shmunter
Member
Weak, and non committed. Why not show the horror? Doesn’t need to be a gameplay element.So much bullshit about this game lol - noticw the way the eliipse the context of the quote out of the text and attach it to an image instead.....
Six Days in Fallujah dev: "I don't think we need to portray the atrocities"
"After things exploded in 2009, I effectively left the industry in 2011... [But] I felt an obligation to those [Marines…
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
How the hell can people in actual positions of power be openly signing a petition to have another game cancelled?
People working on Gotham Knights, Avengers and folk working at Ubisoft and Insomniac. What the hell?
I wonder if that's even legal? I think I'd be in big trouble if I got caught signing petitions to cancel a competitors products. Hm.
Sophia is right in the video to compare this to the Joker movie. It's a very similar energy.
I think you can definitely question the wisdom of using real life tragedy as the basis of entertainment media. It feels wrong on the surface but on deeper examination I don't think it's such a huge deal. Easy to just avoid it if I don't like it anyway.
People working on Gotham Knights, Avengers and folk working at Ubisoft and Insomniac. What the hell?
I wonder if that's even legal? I think I'd be in big trouble if I got caught signing petitions to cancel a competitors products. Hm.
Sophia is right in the video to compare this to the Joker movie. It's a very similar energy.
I think you can definitely question the wisdom of using real life tragedy as the basis of entertainment media. It feels wrong on the surface but on deeper examination I don't think it's such a huge deal. Easy to just avoid it if I don't like it anyway.
Just want to add, cause I have seen this. I haven't seen journalist call for its cancellation in articles, have seen them question its existence but those are two different things.
I think they are critical of the developers comments which is valid. Criticism of the game at this moment is pre-mature for sure.
And yes, no-one should be petitioning for its ban. Its weird that this came from the game devs.
Also the call of duty controversy I think was the game changed a US military event (I can't remember what exactly it was but it was negative as far as I can remember) to I think Russian. Someone can correct me.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
This is what I got when I googled the Cod white phosphorus controversy.
"At level 51, players earn the ability to do what many consider to be a war crime: use White Phosphorus on enemies. This ability is unlocked after a 10-kill streak and allows you to melt the flesh of your enemies.". January 2020
That seems a lot more controversial to me actually.
Didn't know that one, this is the other one. https://www.polygon.com/2019/10/30/20938550/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-highway-of-death-controversy
Ascend
Member
Doesn't matter if they show it or not. The people wanting to shut down the game would be arguing against it, whatever the developers do.
Don't show atrocities: Military recruitment propaganda! They don't show how evil the soldiers are!
Show atrocities: This game is pro war and and racist! It supports using illegal weapons against brown people!
People are already complaining that this game is anti-muslims, despite it including the perspective of Iraqi civilians.
This game is getting hate, no matter what, and... This is exactly why this game must not be censored and must be released and must be supported by gamers.
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RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Wow. That's also really shitty.
I assume there wasn't an army of devs signing a petition here because they might end up looking to Activision for a job some day.
TVexperto
Member
Why does she keep making up lies?!? Also where is the yellow cyberpunk chair?Lol, who believe this bs girl?
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
fatmarco
Member
I really appreciate what they're trying to do with this game. It seems insane to me that the Iraq war has such special protection around it that video game developers are only allowed to make made up, jingoist American propaganda instead.
I mean I really don't really see how its better to make stories with black and white, comic book esque stories that still to some extent dehumanise and vilify real people than it is to make a realistic game set in a real historical context that has at least made an attempt at some nuance.
It just doesn't make sense the manner in which the media has tried to crush this game in particular (and I guess to a lesser extent they went after Kingdom Come too), but to think just how many games we used to have that were set in real world conflicts growing up (Conflict, Delta Force, Vietcong, Men of Valor, Shellshock, Medal of Honor etc.) to now have everything with generic Russian terrorists, or fake countries with fake armies etc is truly bizarre.
I mean I really don't really see how its better to make stories with black and white, comic book esque stories that still to some extent dehumanise and vilify real people than it is to make a realistic game set in a real historical context that has at least made an attempt at some nuance.
It just doesn't make sense the manner in which the media has tried to crush this game in particular (and I guess to a lesser extent they went after Kingdom Come too), but to think just how many games we used to have that were set in real world conflicts growing up (Conflict, Delta Force, Vietcong, Men of Valor, Shellshock, Medal of Honor etc.) to now have everything with generic Russian terrorists, or fake countries with fake armies etc is truly bizarre.
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Torrent of Pork
Banned
As long as the "Fuck America" people are REEing I need to know what's in this game.
I'll buy it just make more people reeeeee
It's my way of life
Games of Today
Member
I cant believe how great this new footage looks. It's actually quite surprising. The lighting looks incredible and it feels like being inside a real house with no electricity. I am so excited for this game especially since there is co-op now.
SJRB
Gold Member
Mikado
Gold Member
Love the attention to detail on the animations - like how the characters use their off-hand to toggle their Peltor PTTs when they talk.