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[Goliathy]

There's a reason the player character model used in the demo was not only significantly less detailed than the environment, but also disappeared when they switched to that fancy triangle view at the beginning. This technology doesn't work with traditionally retopologized, rigged and animated game models, but those are precisely the kind of models you need to make any game that isn't just a literal walking simulator.

The demo looked so great precisely because with the exception of the player model and a few scraps of cloth moving in the wind, there were no traditionally designed game assets in it at all. You can do that in a tech demo, but not in a real game.

Of course, people are delusional if they believe that we will get a real game looking this. It was a tech demo for a reason, maybe we will see very short walking simulators looking like this. But real games? No way.

 

[acm2000]

It was just a tech demo.... There's nothing to it apart from graphics, that's not how most games work.

 

[Goliathy]

It was just a tech demo.... There's nothing to it apart from graphics, that's not how most games work.

yeah, but people believe that we will see games looking exactly like that and that at launch. This is simply not possible due to size etc.

 

[Danjin44]

I don't care for having high tech graphics, just give me game with interesting art direction. games like Bloodborne, DQXI and Valkyria Chronicles are not most technical marvel when it comes to graphics is still gorgeous to this day because of their art direction. This why like AA games, because of their budget limitation they have to rely on great their art direction rather than tech to give us great looking games.

 

[Degree]

Well, I kinda expected this. Such high quality assets, optimizations and whatnot are just too much for a big long game. It would take too much time and money.
But I'd like to see a linear game, 8 hour long, using this level of graphical fidelity. This is actually a great chance for Epic. They have a shitload of money, why not make a singleplayer game that looks insane? It would be a perfect opportunity to show off the engine. A sequel for unreal 2 would be perfect for this purpose.

no. Not even that. The two and a half minute tech demo was around 200 GB according to rumors.
And there wasn’t even a single NPC, or anything.
It was just a tech demo. Nothing more. Don’t expect games like that.

 

[Danjin44]

no. Not even that. The two and a half minute tech demo was around 200 GB according to rumors.
And there wasn’t even a single NPC, or anything.
It was just a tech demo. Nothing more. Don’t expect games like that.

This very true but some people just love to set themselves up for disappointment, they are expecting for most games in next gen system to look like this tech demo and if they don't get that they will call the developers "lazy"or "say this 2020 0r 21 so there is no excuse for it".

And people ask me why I don't get excited about tech demos.

 

[Eliciel]

Epic bets on Unreal Engine 5 transforming next-gen game development - here's what developers think

We recently got our first glimpse of what video games could look like on PS5 thanks to a tech demo for Unreal Engine 5.

www.vg247.com

Long article, lot to sift through

Epic Games VP of engineering Nick Penwarden explains:

Okay, but to be honest, if the quality is not possible for 30+ hours but is possible for 15-20 hour game I am all settled. You know why? Just think about it for a moment and erase ALL passages in games that were created solely for loading up sections, kill the content that is just there for relief of computational effort and for the sake of loading up what's coming and think about that on a scale of a game with 30+ hours. To be honest, if they kill 5-10 hours by doing that and by also creating a game that is more compelling in loading times and easiness to jump in at any time I am not going to be the one complaining about losing these hours.

Overall, if we can see games that are Blockbuster-Esque (AAAA) and play for 15-20+ hours with the highest possible graphical fidelity + incredible narrative + delicious gameplay + impressive sound then I am all settled for NOT complaining about having lost a 30+ hour experience. I am all in for a 20 hour god of war 2...

 

[cireza]

Good. I don't want to play 30fps games for more than 30 hours.

 

[theclaw135]

no. Not even that. The two and a half minute tech demo was around 200 GB according to rumors.
And there wasn’t even a single NPC, or anything.
It was just a tech demo. Nothing more. Don’t expect games like that.

I have to agree. I'm pretty sure he meant games needing hundreds of GB are not commercially viable.

 

[Redlight]

Did anyone read to the end...?
Do posters realise that cliff face in UE5 demo was made with 6 rocks. Its possible to repurpose assets and save lots of space.

Great, if your imagined game takes place on 'Rock World'™.

If not, the game sizes would be unworkable.

People want to forget this but the Unreal 5 demo was a demo. Tailored specifically to the hardware it was running on for the demo. Even then it was forced to run at 1440p and 30fps - even without all of the other systems that an actual game would require.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Epic bets on Unreal Engine 5 transforming next-gen game development - here's what developers think

We recently got our first glimpse of what video games could look like on PS5 thanks to a tech demo for Unreal Engine 5.

www.vg247.com

Long article, lot to sift through

Epic Games VP of engineering Nick Penwarden explains:

Not sure why you took a long UE5 article, took a single quote by a CG artist for movies, passed it off as a dev comment, and chose to make the thread title centred around it and the UE5 demo people associate with PS5... *groan*, anyways the content of the article is quite interesting and storage space for these kind of techniques is an issue.

Still, even if they were producing a single extra more compacted model instead of several and avoid the creation of normal maps and all other textures you need nowadays (very slightly less detailed model for most of the gains), get clever with data compression on disk, and reusing objects appropriately would still deliver a massive new leap in the content pipelines devs work with.

So, yep tons to be excited for PC gamers, XSX gamers, and PS5 gamers. Each platform still getting properly pushed in the same way as the demo indicated it could: if the perceived intent of this article is a subtle “SSD” hype deflated the article should be re-read and the original demo and commentary re-watched .

 

[Panajev2001a]

Great, if your imagined game takes place on 'Rock World'™.

If not, the game sizes would be unworkable.

People want to forget this but the Unreal 5 demo was a demo. Tailored specifically to the hardware it was running on for the demo. Even then it was forced to run at 1440p and 30fps - even without all of the other systems that an actual game would require.

The demo (Engine is not even finished) had AI based particle systems used for the flock of birds and the bugs, but yes could use more complex AI. Not sure you can call those physics and lighting systems trivial or non actual game like. By the end of the generation you will see games that look more impressive.

 

[rofif]

If anything, I want more 8 to 12h games. Nice single player linear game. With those graphics? Wow

 

[DelireMan7]

I was never interested in tech/performance. And so never really get the "hype" for tech demos.

Is performance and graphics so important for gamers ?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Not sure why you took a long UE5 article, took a single quote by a CG artist for movies, passed it off as a dev comment, and chose to make the thread title centred around it and the UE5 demo people associate with PS5... *groan*, anyways the content of the article is quite interesting and storage space for these kind of techniques is an issue.

Because this is basically saying that the PS5 SSD speed might not be used to it's full power this generation because games won't be big enough. Which is what people have been saying since January.

 

[Degree]

Because this is basically saying that the PS5 SSD speed might not be used to it's full power this generation because games won't be big enough. Which is what people have been saying since January.

Wait.. did people think otherwise? It's basically the same as PS3 CELL.. Why would ANY multiplatform dev built their games around a single SSD and basically gimp ALL PC gamers? lol
They will use the PC SSD as a baseline and as the lowest common denominator and build their games around that. And then we will see better loading times on XSX and PS5. That's it.

 

[kuncol02]

There's a reason the player character model used in the demo was not only significantly less detailed than the environment, but also disappeared when they switched to that fancy triangle view at the beginning. This technology doesn't work with traditionally retopologized, rigged and animated game models, but those are precisely the kind of models you need to make any game that isn't just a literal walking simulator.

The demo looked so great precisely because with the exception of the player model and a few scraps of cloth moving in the wind, there were no traditionally designed game assets in it at all. You can do that in a tech demo, but not in a real game.

There were more traditional objects. Falling stones also disappeared at beginning. That rotating thing which opened door looked terrible in comparision. Like from current generation.

Sounds reasonable. Those assets are huge.
I think not only 30+ Hours games is something we won’t see with these kinds of graphics. Even way shorter games will be impossible. Just look at this short clips, which is so huge.
Not happening.

but not surprising. It was just a TECH DEMO. We get it every gen. Just marketing. Not a real game. Never.

For me that demo looked like it was directed into movie industry, not gaming. Movies is where Epic is currently trying to expand. In gaming you can count companies which would be able to prepare assets of that quality for whole game on your fingers.

I don't care for having high tech graphics, just give me game with interesting art direction. games like Bloodborne, DQXI and Valkyria Chronicles are not most technical marvel when it comes to graphics is still gorgeous to this day because of their art direction. This why like AA games, because of their budget limitation they have to rely on great their art direction rather than tech to give us great looking games.

I was stuck for month with notebook which has problem with running any 3D game. Even old ones like Neverwinter Night. Only game I was able to run was Geneforge old indie rpg made by literally one guy. It's probably one of ugliest looking games ever. I had more fun than with most AAA games including Uncharted and God of War.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Wait.. did people think otherwise? It's basically the same as PS3 CELL.. Why would ANY multiplatform dev built their games around a single SSD and basically gimp ALL PC gamers? lol
They will use the PC SSD as a baseline and as the lowest common denominator and build their games around that. And then we will see better loading times on XSX and PS5. That's it.

A lot of people think otherwise. The whole hype surrounding PS5 is basically because of that SSD (since we didn't see any games yet). There is nothing "special" about that console that really pushes gaming forward except the SSD. They just deliberately ignored that games needed to grow too.

 

[kraspkibble]

I wouldn't expect any game to look like that. It's just a demo to show you how far the engine can go. Once you start trying to run it on toasters like the PS5/XSX then they'd need to cut a lot stuff back to get it to run properly and be playable.

If it were a PC exclusive game I could see it being possible to get that level of visuals in a game.

 

[kuncol02]

Most likely wrong since an 8K Skyrim patch is 5.5GB and this demo used far less textures.

And standard low resolution textures in Rage have taken 17GB.
Problem is not in textures, but model sizes. In Horizon biggest robots are around 500k polygons each. Statue in that demo alone had 30 million polygons. How much space that will take? What is worse, next gen console have actually less space available for user than current gen ones with no easy and cheap way to increase it.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Yes but those assets have to be made by talented artists and developers. My post has nothing to do with platforms.

I was just stating the fact that the visuals are only as good as the artist. The graphics engine is only a conduit for creativity and skill. If there is no spark from the artist... it doesn't matter what engine they use, and the visuals will suffer because of it.

photogrammetry allows real world scans to be used with some light touch up too.

And standard low resolution textures in Rage have taken 17GB.

that is probably because that likely uses megatextures and unique texturing for everything rather than reused textures like most games.

Problem is not in textures, but model sizes. In Horizon biggest robots are around 500k polygons each. Statue in that demo alone had 30 million polygons. How much space that will take? What is worse, next gen console have actually less space available for user than current gen ones with no easy and cheap way to increase it.

I've heard kraken can probably be used to compress polygonal data.

The statue has been estimated by some around 500-700~MB. But if it can indeed be compressed it's probably 300MB or less compressed.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Because this is basically saying that the PS5 SSD speed might not be used to it's full power this generation because games won't be big enough. Which is what people have been saying since January.

I thought some people would make it a console warrior topic and highlight that but to try to downplay PS5’s perceived strength, but not sure this accusation is fair for the OP really. That is not what the article is saying really not that quote, but it sounds close enough if that is what you seek to hear.

Xbox One X, despite not changing the fortunes of the console generation, did allow a narrative of domination over PS4 Pro and PS4 technically... is this why some people are so rabid about downplaying any area where PS5 is actually stronger as the others are not area where XSX is dominating (“just” winning by 18-20%).

 

[Danjin44]

I was stuck for month with notebook which has problem with running any 3D game. Even old ones like Neverwinter Night. Only game I was able to run was Geneforge old indie rpg made by literally one guy. It's probably one of ugliest looking games ever. I had more fun than with most AAA games including Uncharted and God of War.

There plenty of games that are not 3D but they are gorgeous.

Gris

Cuphead

 

[kuncol02]

photogrammetry allows real world scans to be used with some light touch up too.

that is probably because that likely uses megatextures and unique texturing for everything rather than reused textures like most games.

I've heard kraken can probably be used to compress polygonal data.

The statue has been estimated by some around 500-700~MB. But if it can indeed be compressed it's probably 300MB or less compressed.

But photogrammetry is not enough if your game is something more than walking simulator.
I used Rage as more extreme example of opposite situation. We still don't know if UE5 need instances to be saved separately or not. If it works in any way similar to sparse voxel octree rendering (and it looks like it work that way) then probably every instance need to be saved separately.
300MB for single object is still extremely huge size. That means that in 100GB you can save only 300 game objects and where is rest of game?

There plenty of games that are not 3D but they are gorgeous.

Gris

Cuphead

Yes, but Geneforge is not one of them. Still great game.

 

[Thirty7ven]

PS5 isn't just faster than the XSX at moving 5.5GB/s of data. It's just as faster when moving 2.4GB/s of data. Developers think in milliseconds.

Games aren't just 3D models. There's Textures, Audio, Animations.

 

[Ellery]

At the end of the generation 30 hour Naughty Dog games (or other PS5 exclusives) and Rockstar games are probably going to look just as good or better (hard to judge art style in terms of objective quality).
About the technical side of things and optimization I will let the developers worry about how to come up with clever solutions. I love good graphics and I am ready to see the next generation, but looking at games like The Last of Us 2 running on a 1.8 TF Playstation 4 with a slow HDD which makes your jaw drop one can be excited for the future where the Playstation 5 is 7-10x as fast (? maybe much more I have no idea exactly how the PS4 architecture stacks up to RDNA 2, but it will definitely be a lot more than simply multiplying the 1.8 to reach 10.2).

But I also think that cross gen titles and annual releases (Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Fifa and the lot) are going to disappoint just like they did on the PS4/Xbox One in the first two years. Probably looking like Current Gen games in 4K resolution.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Square Enix will try they best that’s for sure.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I thought some people would make it a console warrior topic and highlight that but to try to downplay PS5’s perceived strength, but not sure this accusation is fair for the OP really. That is not what the article is saying really not that quote, but it sounds close enough if that is what you seek to hear.

Xbox One X, despite not changing the fortunes of the console generation, did allow a narrative of domination over PS4 Pro and PS4 technically... is this why some people are so rabid about downplaying any area where PS5 is actually stronger as the others are not area where XSX is dominating (“just” winning by 18-20%).

No one is saying that the PS5 SSD isn't extremely fast and amazing tech wise, they are just saying that for the current circumstances, it's not needed to be this fast. Maybe by mid-gen refresh it is.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No one is saying that the PS5 SSD isn't extremely fast and amazing tech wise, they are just saying that for the current circumstances, it's not needed to be this fast. Maybe by mid-gen refresh it is.

I do not think they overspecced the drive by this amount and forced Epic to make up an unrealistic demo (to get people to buy a mid hen refresh to start seeing benefits of it, that has little to no precedence in the way Sony has handled their console generations and their only mid generation spec upgrade).

Some people are disagreeing on how that speed can be used effectively, many others are not.
Storage space is a concern, but the content pipeline time savings given by the UE5 approach with Nanite are still valuable even for devs that had to deviate ever so slightly from the incredibly data heavy approach for the demo: either by compressing the data more or by using a sigh toy lower quality simplified version or mixing these movie quality assets with more traditional approaches.

UE5 does not NEED either the fast PS5 SSD nor the 12 TFLOPS + HW features of the XSX: each platform can leverage them (see the comment about working with Sony for years to improve/shape UE4/5 for these HW capabilities) to offer unique advantages in areas they are stronger and where the competitor has to dial things down (by a small or large amount depending on the cases).

 

[Thirty7ven]

No one is saying that the PS5 SSD isn't extremely fast and amazing tech wise, they are just saying that for the current circumstances, it's not needed to be this fast. Maybe by mid-gen refresh it is.

Utter nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I do not think they overspecced the drive by this amount and forced Epic to make up an unrealistic demo (to get people to buy a mid hen refresh to start seeing benefits of it, that has little to no precedence in the way Sony has handled their console generations and their only mid generation spec upgrade).

Some people are disagreeing on how that speed can be used effectively, many others are not.
Storage space is a concern, but the content pipeline time savings given by the UE5 approach with Nanite are still valuable even for devs that had to deviate ever so slightly from the incredibly data heavy approach for the demo: either by compressing the data more or by using a sigh toy lower quality simplified version or mixing these movie quality assets with more traditional approaches.

UE5 does not NEED either the fast PS5 SSD nor the 12 TFLOPS + HW features of the XSX: each platform can leverage them (see the comment about working with Sony for years to improve/shape UE4/5 for these HW capabilities) to offer unique advantages in areas they are stronger and where the competitor has to dial things down (by a small or large amount depending on the cases).

I agree that it saves time, I'm merely saying that since games won't be much larger, the data you need to stream is smaller compared to what we saw in the UE5 demo.

To create a game that is as rich in detail as the UE5 demo, you would need an SSD as fast as the PS5 to play it. But those games would be larger than the actual SSD itself due to that detail. So you are going to remove details, to make the game smaller, which means you won't need to stream as much data into a scene, which means you don't need that full SSD speed anymore.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I agree that it saves time, I'm merely saying that since games won't be much larger, the data you need to stream is smaller compared to what we saw in the UE5 demo.

To create a game that is as rich in detail as the UE5 demo, you would need an SSD as fast as the PS5 to play it. But those games would be larger than the actual SSD itself due to that detail. So you are going to remove details, to make the game smaller, which means you won't need to stream as much data into a scene, which means you don't need that full SSD speed anymore.

I do not think it is the case, I think it is more how many round trips you can afford in a 10-25 ms intervals to storage to load data that does not fit into your 16 GB of RAM (minus OS reserves, temporary buffers, off screen render targets, etc...) and still hit your desired framerate.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I do not think it is the case, I think it is more how many round trips you can afford in a 10-25 ms intervals to storage to load data that does not fit into your 16 GB of RAM (minus OS reserves, temporary buffers, off screen render targets, etc...) and still hit your desired framerate.

Yeah but the amount of round trips you need to make still depends on the amount of data you need to load right? So less data means less round trips?

 

[Ascend]

A good reference of how games will look next gen is imagining a better looking Gears 5. Gears 5 is still built the old way, so, there's room for improvement there. But it looks quite good in its own right.

And well, the Inside Xbox games also offer a good glimpse. Too bad many of the real time in-game footage was confused with CGI.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah but the amount of round trips you need to make still depends on the amount of data you need to load right? So less data means less round trips?

Indeed, each round trip and the number of them depends on the data you need to load per frame without wasting main RAM for very long term storage (like the example Cerny was making in his presentation 1s of data in RAM vs 15s or more in RAM at any point in time).
Once you start relying on the SSD as virtual RAM latency to update the scene as the player moves around and speed to access it are very important. Then yes, some games will not flex this advantage as some others will not flex the 18-20% FLOPS/RT advantage or not do it in a noticeable way (outside of DF), that is why I look forward to great first party games for both .

Also, 80-100 GB games or more does not sound unreasonable either (look at the current generation games and expect more).

Worth referencing this post from geordiemp :

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Project Acoustic as library curently is software based because it exists now. You can use it in your game for xbox right now. It was confirmed by audio guy from Ninja Theory that Series X has hardware audio and now they don't have to fight for CPU and GPU resources. And before someone will say...

www.neogaf.com

 

[geordiemp]

Indeed, each round trip and the number of them depends on the data you need to load per frame without wasting main RAM for very long term storage (like the example Cerny was making in his presentation 1s of data in RAM vs 15s or more in RAM at any point in time).
Once you start relying on the SSD as virtual RAM latency to update the scene as the player moves around and speed to access it are very important. Then yes, some games will not flex this advantage as some others will not flex the 18-20% FLOPS/RT advantage or not do it in a noticeable way (outside of DF), that is why I look forward to great first party games for both .

Also, 80-100 GB games or more does not sound unreasonable either (look at the current generation games and expect more).

Worth referencing this post from geordiemp :

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Project Acoustic as library curently is software based because it exists now. You can use it in your game for xbox right now. It was confirmed by audio guy from Ninja Theory that Series X has hardware audio and now they don't have to fight for CPU and GPU resources. And before someone will say...

www.neogaf.com

The install size of Bo4 on ps4 pro (UK) is 145.2 GB.

Ps5 blu rays will be 100 GB, so SOME might ship on 2 disks or download.

We will LIKELY see 200 GB game size, 3 Ps5 games per SSD, rest on your hard drive back up (I will get an 8 TB HD I think as backog back up)

This is next gen...

 

[Deleted member 775630]

The install size of Bo4 on ps4 pro (UK) is 145.2 GB.

Ps5 blu rays will be 100 GB, so SOME might ship on 2 disks or download.

We will LIKELY see 200 GB game size, 3 Ps5 games per SSD, rest on your hard drive back up (I will get an 8 TB HD I think as backog back up)

This is next gen...

But do you think that 200GB is enough really need that PS5 SSD speed, or will slower SSD's also manage if it's "only" 200GB for the whole game? Because that's the only question I'm asking myself. PS5 SSD is extremely fast, but will the games exist out of big enough assets to use this to its advantage.

 

[Exodia]

You realise that Sony worked with epic on this for 5 years. Days gone was one of the few open world games on UE4 and sony helped write the UE4 I/O changes for that game, and that work continued onto the UE5 project.

Decima engine has been improving streaming, you could see it in death stranding..... what do you think Sony first party will do on Ps5...... It does not take much guessing does it.

This is not true. None of this is true. Stop constantly spreading misinformation. My goodness....

 

[MoreJRPG]

yeah, but people believe that we will see games looking exactly like that and that at launch. This is simply not possible due to size etc.

That’s the whole point of a tech demo. To reel in the fish.

 

[Redlight]

Xbox One X, despite not changing the fortunes of the console generation, did allow a narrative of domination over PS4 Pro and PS4 technically... is this why some people are so rabid about downplaying any area where PS5 is actually stronger as the others are not area where XSX is dominating (“just” winning by 18-20%).

I haven't seen enormous amounts of gloating from One X fans on Gaf. To me it seems that the opposite of your point it true. Some people are rabid about downplaying the advantages that Series X has over the PS5. I mean seriously, foaming at the mouth rabid.

 

[Exodia]

Did anyone read to the end...?



Do posters realise that cliff face in UE5 demo was made with 6 rocks. Its possible to repurpose assets and save lots of space.

Yes we will get high quality assests next gen, dont worry....

Some devs have already given the solution and how its done, there is a video doing the rounds, look it up yourself, time for supper.

This only proves that the demo wasnt pulling 5 GB/s as people like you are saying. Because the files you need are ALREADY IN memory and are less or about 1 GB. Because theres such use of repeated assets you are not constantly loading from the SSD. Completely debunking the whole this can only run at same quality on PS5.

You cant have your cake of eat it too. but ofcourse constantly contradicting yourself is part of the plan.

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is not true. None of this is true. Stop constantly spreading misinformation. My goodness....

Oh the irony here...

 

[RPSleon]

Did anyone read to the end...?



Do posters realise that cliff face in UE5 demo was made with 6 rocks. Its possible to repurpose assets and save lots of space.

Yes we will get high quality assests next gen, dont worry....

Some devs have already given the solution and how its done, there is a video doing the rounds, look it up yourself, time for supper.

They did this in a dreams demo of how to make buildings etc. So much of it was one shape used in loads of different ways.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I haven't seen enormous amounts of gloating from One X fans on Gaf. To me it seems that the opposite of your point it true. Some people are rabid about downplaying the advantages that Series X has over the PS5. I mean seriously, foaming at the mouth rabid.

No gloating from Xbox One X fans (often taking pride in calling a console that shipped a year earlier for $100 less a half assed PoS) calling it BEAST here BEAST there as much as they could? Well, not sure how you can say that while keeping a straight face .

I see plenty of threads trying to either say that we do not need fast SSD’s or trying to make up crazy theories about why the gap is not actually that wide, but I have yet to see the same with PS5 trying to downplay the advantage XSX has... maybe it is projecting as people were used to have 40+% advantage and having less than half that seems small to them... ... not sure.

 

[Frederic]

The install size of Bo4 on ps4 pro (UK) is 145.2 GB.

Ps5 blu rays will be 100 GB, so SOME might ship on 2 disks or download.

We will LIKELY see 200 GB game size, 3 Ps5 games per SSD, rest on your hard drive back up (I will get an 8 TB HD I think as backog back up)

This is next gen...

Luckily XSX will at least get a full TB storage, so you can get another game on the internal storage, which is a huge difference.

No gloating from Xbox One X fans (often taking pride in calling a console that shipped a year earlier for $100 less a half assed PoS) calling it BEAST here BEAST there as much as they could? Well, not sure how you can say that while keeping a straight face .

I see plenty of threads trying to either say that we do not need fast SSD’s or trying to make up crazy theories about why the gap is not actually that wide, but I have yet to see the same with PS5 trying to downplay the advantage XSX has... maybe it is projecting as people were used to have 40+% advantage and having less than half that seems small to them... ... not sure.

Because both have an SSD, its not like XSX only has an HDD or so, there is also an SSD, you know and a pretty fast one.
Having a more powerful GPU, CPU and higher bandwidth RAM is much more meaningful than having a faster SSD, when the SSD already is very fast.

Of course, if XSX only had an HDD it would be a huge difference, but XSX already has a super fast SSD and IO, so in real world scenario, the difference will not be that big, but we will find out as soon as the games arrive.

 

[yurinka]

I prefer 10-20 hours games. In any case, the insane assets they included in the demo were too detailed. Way more than the console resolution can render, so their detail can be reduced without losing fidelity in gameplay.

If when exporting to the disk files UE5 keeps there the original files instead of optimizing them for the maximum detail possible considering the areas where the camera can move and the native resolution that the game uses, devs may create a tool to do that.

In addition to that, many devs -specially the open world ones- are moving to a more procedural world building to create landscapes, buildings and so on tiling stuff like houses or fences, with different variations, etc. in addition to the typical techniques of slightly changing position/rotation/size/texture of rocks/trees/etc.

I mean, with the current gen hardware they did stuff like Uncharted 4, Horizon, God of War, RDR2 and so on. Not counting stuff like extra compression, now they'll have the double of space in the bluray and memory, probably the standard AAA size goes up to ~100GB instead of the traditional ~50GB, and on top of that game updates as Cerny said would have a smaller size.

This, mixed with the extra productivity coming from avoiding stuff like normals, LOD, and so on, and having way more horsepower, capable of rendering with the insane detail we saw in the demo and allowing great global dynamic illumination even without using RT, I'm pretty sure that the non-crossgen next gen AAA games will look stunning specially when using an engine properly optimized for next gen.

I mean, a fucking random rock doesn't need millions of triangles and 8K textures for a 4K or 1440p game.

This only proves that the demo wasnt pulling 5 GB/s as people like you are saying. Because the files you need are ALREADY IN memory and are less or about 1 GB. Because theres such use of repeated assets you are not constantly loading from the SSD. Completely debunking the whole this can only run at same quality on PS5.

You cant have your cake of eat it too. but ofcourse constantly contradicting yourself is part of the plan.

PS5 puts ~8-9GB/s of data from the SSD to the memory, not 5. It doesn't mean they will be streaming always at maximum capacity and filling the whole memory every time they stream, obviously they will only when needed and for the amount they need.

They shown the assets store from where they took the assets for the demo. There were more than 6 rocks and wasn't all of them.

I've heard kraken can probably be used to compress polygonal data.

The idea is that all the data stored in the SSD and in the bluray is compressed with Kraken. And when loaded to the RAM it gets decompressed at the same speed it gets read. So in a second 5.5GB of SSD compressed data are read and decompressed by a dedicated custom chip to become around 8 or 9GB of GPU native data in the RAM.

But do you think that 200GB is enough really need that PS5 SSD speed, or will slower SSD's also manage if it's "only" 200GB for the whole game? Because that's the only question I'm asking myself. PS5 SSD is extremely fast, but will the games exist out of big enough assets to use this to its advantage.

With SSD they don't need to repeat some data many times as they did with HDD, and now post launch patches will be smaller, and they won't need normals, LoD, etc, and now they use a better compression. A 50GB of the current gen game but made for PS5 would take way less space of HDD, probably even like way less than the half. In addition to this, I'm pretty sure they'll have some smart way to optimize SSD data usage as mentioned by Cerny I think it was at Wired, where you only install the part you'll use (let's say core of the game + episode 3 of the single player mode that you are playing, and maybe episode 4 and once it's completed episode 3 is deleted until you want to play it again).

They won't need 200GB, because with 100GB they will be able to store there way more than they did in 100GB in the last gen, and because the PS5 blurays will be 100GB. And that will be more than enough for most games.

 

[GlassAwful]

This only proves that the demo wasnt pulling 5 GB/s as people like you are saying. Because the files you need are ALREADY IN memory and are less or about 1 GB. Because theres such use of repeated assets you are not constantly loading from the SSD. Completely debunking the whole this can only run at same quality on PS5.

You cant have your cake of eat it too. but ofcourse constantly contradicting yourself is part of the plan.

It doesn't prove shit because nobody but epic knows the filesize of those rocks and the rest of the assets in any given scene of the demo. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't as high as 5 GB/s.

If it isn't, guess what that means. It means it could look this good on Xbox, but could look even better on PS5 with more unique assets instead of the same rocks and statues being copy pasted throughout the scene.

People round the internet seem to be shaken to the core at the prospect of 5 GB/s of data being used in a game or tech demo. Shaken to the fucking core. Go outside and breathe.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Luckily XSX will at least get a full TB storage, so you can get another game on the internal storage, which is a huge difference.

I like this one, it’s my new favorite. One more game, huge difference.

 

[SSfox]

Should we expect 30+ hour games to look like UE5 Demo? One Lazy AF dev says probably not.


Fixed

 

[DavidGzz]

3 hour visual showcase games will be reduced to 30 min cause of them sweet load time gains.