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Should Sony reduce the price of the PS5?

Njocky

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Some other points to consider:

- US$ 70 games: price is more dynamic today. A US$ 70 game becomes a US$ 50 game in six months and eventually becomes a free game. Game Pass is a fantastic deal for sure, but there's an infinite offering of cheap AAA games these days in every platform, so from the economic perspective, as much as MS is being aggressive and crazy with Game Pass, they're fighting in a market where the consumer is already overwhelmed by the amount of quality games for cheap.

The real competition these days is for people's time, so offering them 100 games per month is not necessarily better than offering a much larger menu of good deals and the possibility of dedicating your time to one or two better games.

- Considering two of Bethesda's games will be PS5 exclusives for the next year and there's nothing we know yet that's coming out soon from them, when are the fans expecting to start collecting the fruits of this 5.7 billion deal? Probably will take 2 or 3 years to start making a difference. I have the impression that MS is a bit too late, but we'll see. This gen should be very interesting.

I'm not sure I agree that more choice cheaper is worse. Give me more options and let me worry about the time. By that logic cable television wouldn't have been started and we would all still have 5 terrestrial channels. We had busy lives then also.

2-3 years for an investment to start producing results is actually top notch (try stocks, you'll be surprised). I would even argue that the investment started having an impact the following day and potentially helped towards multiple retailer sites crashing today.
 

yurinka

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You’re completely missing the point. Xbox is changing the economics of gaming. Every single game you mentioned I have to pay for on PS5 (except for the ps+ collection which is “a small game pass of my last gen games”). And the “what does Xbox have” argument is obsolete. Read the news. Or my OP.

I understand why you’re only mentioning next year. From 2022, MS may have the ability to release 4-5 AAA exclusives a year. Again all included.
You don’t have to get it but I doubt that incrementing the number behind their last first party releases is gonna be enough for Sony this time. Not at 80€ a game and the same price as a AAA machine that’s more powerful. Time will tell
Xbox isn't changing nothing because it sells less than the half of the units of its direct competition. Same goes with Game Pass+Gold+xCloud combined. PS Plus+Now have more subscribers -and active, and paying a full subscription- and generate more revenue than them.

And the argument isn't obsolete. People will want big games for their console or service. From the release of its console and during its first year, MS only has announced Halo. And many of the other MS announced games don't have the XBO, and Phil said that all their games released the fist two years after Series X release were going to be crossgen. So this means that MS games with no XBO logo will be released at least late November 2022.

Even with Zenimax/Bethesda, Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo have timed console PS5 exclusive. Doom Eternal is pretty recent. Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI seems to be pretty far, maybe 2022 or 2023.

Games will be 80€ both for PS5 and Series X. And not all games, we already saw in the launch games that are different pricings. And as always they will get discounted and also included in subscriptions. I mean, in Spain Media Markt is selling Demon's Souls at 59.99€ and Fnac is selling NBA2K21 next gen at 64.99€, and this is before release. Both are supposed to be 80€ games.

At least until mid-late 2022 Series X and Game Pass will be dry of new big AAA games. And until then PS5 will have a shit ton of exclusives and timed exclusives, plus top tier 3rd party multi games.

Who knows, maybe in the future Game Pass becomes king of the game subscriptions (right now PS+ is) and later becomes king of non-mobile gaming. But this is an hypothetical future with a lot of ifs. As of now, PS has a huge lead and in the next couple of years seems that the distance is going to be the same or even bigger. Let's see if in 2023 or so MS starts to catch up or if it's too late. And let's see too what PS+ and PS Now will be then. When talking about the future of PS Now in an slide mentioning multiple improvements they were planning for next gen, one of them was adding the option to the current ones of allowing people to buy games to be played on streaming. Like in Stadia, what would be a 3rd way of owning as are now digital download and physical.

This would open the door to having a game day one on streaming while keeping a business model that makes sense for publishers and devs while allowing players who don't own the console to buy and play games that aren't from the PSNow subscription. But it wasn't very clear, I don't know the details. Who knows what are they going to do.

As things are now and looking at what we know until at least mid 2022 or so, PS5 will continue clearly dominating as PS4 did, breaking new console gaming history records in consoles sold, games sold and services sold in terms of units, users and revenue.
 
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dvdvideo

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I'm more of an xbox player than ps player, but no, $399 is already a great deal for a console with the abilities the ps5 has. (And the x as well)

That said, I do see the value proposition ms is offering, and its even more compelling now.
 

Azurro

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We should at least be able to admit that none of those consoles have an impressive launch line up or we're not operating with the same set of facts.
The bottom line is what the Playstation has, Xbox since yesterday also has just as much or more, it's just a matter of whether you enjoy RPGs and shooters more or less than action adventure.
Xbox however can claim a lot of things that Playstation does not have and I refer you to my OP. It's legitimate to wonder if they should charge me the same. Casual gamers who wonder like me will start speaking with their wallet at some point. It's just economics.

You haven't answered to one simple question: the PS5 sold out within hours and people got pissed, really pissed that they couldn't get one. Why would they need to reduce the price if they can't even meet the demand at the current price? If you can't answer that, then I'm afraid you might just be building narratives.
 
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Vidraino

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Don't forget that it will have a much better SSD, which will lead to experiences that can only be made for and experienced on PS5. T-Flops are not the be-all end-all of a console's overall performance. Yes, Xbox does have slightly more, but the past has shown time and time again that their studios, save for a couple, simply don't come close to utilizing all of the power in the ways that Sony's first party studios do. Less power or not, Sony will once again have the shinier exclusives. Xbox has much stronger backwards compatibility, and gamepass, which is unmatched and will continue to be unmatched by Sony because of their view points and market leverage. Everyone wins, it's gonna be a great generation for all gamers and everyone's money will be well spent. $500 is a great value for both.
 

bender

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I looked at GamePass lineup lastnight out of curiosity and I think I saw less tha 5 games that I had any interest in playing that I didn't have already, wasn't super cheap to buy or had been on PS+.

I really feel people are overselling it.

If you were an early adopter of PS4/Xbox One, I think Game Pass is a tough prospect if you are jumping in towards the end of a generation the and could leave anyone with similar thoughts to you. I know I'm in that camp. I do think it's a more attractive package to start a generation as you can alter purchasing habits or you can delay your purchase to the end of the generation and play catchup on all the first party output in a very inexpensive manner.
 
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Njocky

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As things are now and looking at what we know until 2023 or so, PS5 will continue dominating as PS4 did, breaking new console gaming history records in consoles sold, games sold and services sold in terms of units, users and revenue.

I know that's your conclusion but I must have missed the argument. Wishful thinking is not a demonstration.
We'll see what releases in 2021 on both consoles. What we already know is what it will cost.
 

Bryank75

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If you were an early adopter of PS4/Xbox One, I think Game Pass is a tough prospect if you are jumping in towards the end of a generation the and could leave anyone with similar thoughts to you. I know I'm in that camp. I do think it's a more attractive package to start a generation as you can alter purchasing habits or you can delay your purchase to the end of the generation and play catchup on all the first party output in a very inexpensive manner.
Yeah, I think we are on the same page here.
 

Njocky

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You haven't answered to one simple question: the PS5 sold out within hours and people got pissed, really pissed that they couldn't get one. Why would they need to reduce the price if they can't even meet the demand at the current price?
I don't think I said they needed to reduce it today (although the sooner the better for their customers). I'm more concerned about fairness to the customer than to the corporation. And the competition's offer is part of that equation. That's if we're still in a free capitalistic economy and not part of a brand's cult.

There's enough hardcore gamers worldwide to overwhelm the limited available supply on pre-order day. Doesn't mean the product is priced properly or fairly long term.

If you can't answer that, then I'm afraid you might just be building narratives.

You are entitled to any opinion about my opinion.
 

Clear

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Serious question for the "sneaking cross platform in" brigade:

How long do you think it takes to make a game?

Because if you know the answer to that question you'll understand why most games are cross platform around launch.

Its inevitable due to practicality and basic economics.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Flight Simulator was only a few weeks ago.
Not your type of game? I guess there goes the metacritic argument.
Bethesda is an outstanding acquisition.

Um did you understand his question? Not denying Flight Simulators meta but the developers are not owned by Zenimax.

Edit: Ok NVM I actually did some research on the studio that you were talking about and it doesn't appear that Microsoft owns them even though they made Flight Simulator.
 
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sainraja

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Game Pass won't stay @ $15 a month for long or the value that is supposedly offers right now will quickly change as times goes on. We shall see.
 

SLESS

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PS5 will release with games like Demon's Souls, Spiderman: Miles Morales, Devil May Cry V Special Edition, Sackboy, Godfall, Destruction All Stars, Cyberpunk 2077, AC Valhalla, CoD Cold War, Observer: System Redux, Dirt 5, Watch Dogs Legion or NBA2K21.

In addition to Astro's Playroom preinstalled and as PS+ games (most people will have PS+):
Battlefield 1
Batman: Arkham Knight
Bloodborne
Days Gone
Detroit: Become Human
Fallout 4
Final Fantasy 15
God of War
Infamous Second Son
The Last Guardian
The Last of Us
Monster Hunter: World
Mortal Kombat X
Persona 5
Ratchet and Clank
Resident Evil 7: Biohazard
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
Until Dawn

Not bad at all. Tell me a console with a bigger or better launch line up than this one. And for the first year it will have Ratchet, Horizon 2, God of War 2, Returnal, probably Gran Turismo 7 and all the timed exclusives plus other ones that who knows are going to be released like FFXVI and FFVII Remake Episode 2.

What is the Xbox console exclusive launch line-up? And what other new big console (also available in PC and Xbox Series S) AAA exclusives are going to have game Xbox and Game Pass for the first year other than Halo? From Bethesda Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo will be PS5 console timed exclusives, an in EA Play they put their big games a year after release or so, so they may put there Jedi Fallen Order.

What games are going to convince casuals to speak with their wallets?

Off Topic, but does anyone know if these are all "PS5 Boost Mode" I really want to play BB with improved visuals and FPS :)
 

Gamerguy84

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Yes they need to lower by at least $50 if not $100 to compete after the MS purchase, value of gamepass, and technology of Xbox to upgrade all generations of titles. If PS5 does not at least upscale like the current One x does for all games... why would you even want a PS5 until more games are released..
Compete? Lol you can't find a PS5 anywhere because of demand. That said I wish they would lower the price.

Sony doesn't give their entire lineup away for a dollar like ms.
 

Bog

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Yes they should drop it now while it’s still out of stock everywhere.
 

Apocryphon_

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Lemme guess..

People are always telling you how eloquent you are and that you should take writing seriously..

.
 

supernova8

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Regardless how high they price it, more than half will be snapped up by scalping cunts. I saw some on Amazon JP going for $3000 before (I think) Amazon took them down.
 
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This makes no sense. Why would they reduce the price when pre-orders literally sell out in seconds? This is basic supply and demand stuff.
 
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Stiflers Mom

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Let me start by stating that I want one. I am lucky enough to be able to afford all consoles and the only thing that may keep me from owning a PS5 this fall is if I'm unable to secure a pre-order. I want to experience the dual sense controller. Even if it's a gimmick, I like to have variety in my games as it's a serious hobby for me and I'm sure that God of War and Horizon will add some special controller features in addition to the fact that those are great games that I enjoyed in the current generation. So it's a buy for me, as a secondary console, just for the exclusives.

That being said, since yesterday, every time I hunt pre-orders and see the amount above the greyed out buy button being the same as for the Series X (which I managed to pre-order) I can't escape the feeling that I may be overpaying. The XSX is technically more powerful, I think that is beyond doubt. What was making the PS5 a no brainer at the same price regardless, let's be honest, was its superior (future) game library. It didn't matter too much, at least for a hardcore gamer like me, that Sony wasn't investing in a susbscription service a la Game Pass. They were committed to generations and we thought we were getting Sony's exceptional exclusives from day one. That was enough to maintain the public's interest sky high and obviously justify the prices that they unveiled a week ago.

Quite a few things have changed since. Sony has sneaked cross platform in on us without saying a word about it, they're inviting us to pay twice in order to double dip (Spider man) and most importantly, Microsoft now has the superior first party catalogue. Some games are generation defining. The Elder Scrolls is that kind of game and Starfield has the potential to be one too. Fallout is very close behind and so is Doom.
I mean the FPS genre now almost unanimously belongs to Microsoft: Halo (no need to bash it anymore, it's only one of the many standout shooters MS has), Wolfenstein (anyone's seen the DF breakdown of the New Colossus?), Doom Eternal, Quake, Rage, Dishonored, Prey, etc.. Those are ALL the most technically advanced shooters in the business. Never mind that anything Dice or Respawn makes is now coming early to Xbox owners.
MS has also had the racing genre on lock for at least a decade now and it's not about to change. The best western RPGs are now in house for them also. And the best part is that when I buy an Xbox with All Access for 25 bucks a month, the price of all the games I've just mentioned is already included.

The question now is what exactly justifies buying a PS5 at the same price as an XSX, without even the option to pay in installments with 0% APR credit? I can't play the games on my phone or tablet (remote play doesn't even work inside my house), the good ones come out every 2-3 years (6 years between Sucker Punch's last 2 games, 5 years between Naughty Dog's last 2 games, although the next GOW seems to be early), meaning that for most of the time I will be left to play multiplat games that very likely will look and run better on the XSX.
I'm trying to be objective here but short of also adopting the Netflix model in a hurry or buying Capcom or EA in the next few weeks, how does Sony justify charging way more (if you include the price of games) for less (fewer options to access the games, lower performance on most of them and at least less quantity since the quality verdict is not out yet for next gen).

I don't want Sony to enter the kind of financial hardship that would leave Microsoft as the sole main player with Nintendo and Google on the sidelines. I'm afraid that Sony's current business model, if maintained throughout the generation, will leave them a shell of what they were. Brand recognition and traditional loyalty only take you so far. Once people start realizing that Starfield is not releasing on Sony's console but their child wants it and there's this little toy like box that plays it and costs half the price of the PS5 and I don't even need to buy the game or any other game, the perception will change. Once enough people start commenting about trying the latest FIFA and Battlefield weeks before people on Playstation, without paying anything extra, word will spread. And again short of making the type of unprecedented investments that MS has just splashed and threatens to continue throwing, a price cut is the fairest gesture that Sony can make right now towards its customer base. It would prove that they are reading the market objectively and not taking anyone for granted. If they don't, the market has a way to speak back with its wallet when value perception significantly changes, even if it sometimes takes a while.
This gen will be interesting.

Lol. It begins..
 

Azurro

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I don't think I said they needed to reduce it today (although the sooner the better for their customers). I'm more concerned about fairness to the customer than to the corporation. And the competition's offer is part of that equation. That's if we're still in a free capitalistic economy and not part of a brand's cult.

There's enough hardcore gamers worldwide to overwhelm the limited available supply on pre-order day. Doesn't mean the product is priced properly or fairly long term.

You can have an opinion on whatever, but you need to sustain it on something tangible, otherwise it looks suspect. You say it should be cheaper and yet there's no proof at all that the market has rejected that price, on the contrary, it seems Sony is underserving that demand.

Therefore, you are basically just interested in building a narrative. Why? I don't know, console wars? FUD?
 

danielJackson

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Situation:

PS5 sold out in 30s to 5 minutes

series x/s still available 24h and 5minutes later after they opened pre-orders

So whom should drop prices?

A) those that sold out in minutes?

B) those that havent sold out in a day?


I'm assuming you are from US, so I get it, but americans almost always dont understand how different it is for rest of the world.

Here series x could cost -30% and still sell less


Also 0% deals have been available for +15 years for phones, TVs, consoles, audio, computers.

Maybe it is not common in US, but here it is possible to buy stuff with full price or divide it to 12/24/36 months, and it costs the same or usually is 1-2€ cheaper than paying upfront. No need to buy extra services etc.


And the "all access", well in my country common attitude seems to be that it is just stupid waste of money, because when adding how much it cost in 2 years, it is fucking expensive. For the same money you can get console + games you really want to play and keep them / re sell them.
 
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Boss Mog

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OP is in trouble if he can't understand something as simple as supply and demand.
 

ZywyPL

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In Europe, they basically do already.

Well realistically, I expect XSX and PS5 to be sold at a loss, with 550-600$ production costs, so if Sony is already losing on the base PS5, the each DE unit sold is a huge loss, and I believe this is the reason we see such high prices.
 

Njocky

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You can have an opinion on whatever, but you need to sustain it on something tangible, otherwise it looks suspect. You say it should be cheaper and yet there's no proof at all that the market has rejected that price, on the contrary, it seems Sony is underserving that demand.

Therefore, you are basically just interested in building a narrative. Why? I don't know, console wars? FUD?
It’s not FUD that the competition is running circles around Sony’s offer. The market has not yet fully computed that information as some of it happened AFTER Sony opened preorders but it always does eventually.
Also who cares if you think my opinion looks suspect?
 

Njocky

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OP is in trouble if he can't understand something as simple as supply and demand.
I understand the difference between day 1 “I’ve waited 7 years” hardcore gamer demand and mass market demand.
i also know that demand is not a static immutable entity. It reacts to competition offers and changes in value perception.
They clearly don’t need to change the price today. I suspect they may need to by the end of the first year when the mass market catches up with what both companies offer.
 
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Azurro

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It’s not FUD that the competition is running circles around Sony’s offer. The market has not yet fully computed that information as some of it happened AFTER Sony opened preorders but it always does eventually.
Also who cares if you think my opinion looks suspect?

Do you honestly think people follow gaming news as much as we do? The Bethesda news are huge for us forum dwellers but not that big of a factor in the wider gaming sphere. The PS5 will continue to sell out and it is still most likely going to be a huge success.

Is that all you are basing your FUD on? A more elaborate version of "oh you guys, MS is totally crushing Sony now, they should totally reduce the price because they suck now!!".
 

Boss Mog

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I understand the difference between day 1 “I’ve waited 7 years” hardcore gamer demand and mass market demand.
i also know that demand is not a static immutable entity. It reacts to competition offers and changes in value perception.
They clearly don’t need to change the price today. I suspect they may need to by the end of the first year when the mass market catches up with what both companies offer.
If you know these things then you should know that you should wait til 2021 to see if sales slow down enough to warrant your initial question.
 

Njocky

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Do you honestly think people follow gaming news as much as we do? The Bethesda news are huge for us forum dwellers but not that big of a factor in the wider gaming sphere. The PS5 will continue to sell out and it is still most likely going to be a huge success.


If you know these things then you should know that you should wait til 2021 to see if sales slow down enough to warrant your initial question.
I don't think they have to wait until their sales slow down. Consumers appreciate a vendor that respects their intelligence. Nothing is preventing Sony from reflecting the factual value difference in the price BEFORE being arm twisted by the market. Or to increase the value of their offer to make up for the competition's moves: lower game prices, Answers to Xcloud and AllAccess, better accessiblity to 1st party games, etc.. Both approaches would benefit consumers and I am taking the consumer's perspective here. Not the "Does it maximise the corporation's profits" perspective. It's not my job to worry about that.

Console manufacturers have always analysed the triangle of price, value proposition and sales to proactively steer future demand. I refer to this article from 2008 about the price competition between the PS3 and the Xbox 360:

Sony, on the other hand, is eliminating its 40GB $399 PS 3 model entirely. The 80GB version which was $499 will now cost $399. Microsoft now has the most expensive box on the market, with the Xbox 360 Elite with a 120GB hard drive now costing $449. Microsoft will likely have to cut prices in reaction or lose market share. https://venturebeat.com/2008/07/15/...the-sony-playstation-3-joins-the-console-war/

You don't have to lose market share to adjust your price. In many cases it's already too late then. A smart company sells you a product for what it's worth today instead of banking on you ignoring the real value. The value changed with the Bethesda acquisition combined with all the moves that Xbox has made in the last 2 years. I'm just saying that Sony can no longer afford to just ignore it. The article above made the same point about a different situation 12 years ago.
 

meech

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The Ps5 is sold out. Basic economics, you dont reduce the price if the demand is higher than the units you could sell. That may
change in the future, but that is unlikely.