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Should Phil Spencer be replaced at the head of Xbox?

PropellerEar

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Dec 8, 2018
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Studios purchased in 2018 aren't expected to show results in under three years.

We don't have enough information to call them middle/low tier AAA studios, especially after MS bolstered all their budgets.

Nobody knows about the Series S except for everyone who posts on enthusiast gaming message boards.

But do continue with your concern trolling.
Compare to Insomniac that Sony bought in 2019 :messenger_smirking:
You do good purchases or you buy what ever like this hero of yours does.

Mediocre AA studios, Im hoping for the best but doesn't seem promising yet.

XSes only undercuts the Xbox brand if ever realeased.
 

MiguelItUp

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I mean, the guy seems to be doing a great job of talking up the console and brand, the problem is that talk isn't backed up at all. Whether or not that's purely his call or not, whoever is calling THOSE shots should probably take a seat, haha.
 
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Zato

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It's not how long he's been in charge. It's how long he's been empowered by Microsoft.

The answer to that is roughly two years.

Empowered by MS? When was it announced that the head of Xbox was given the power to run Xbox and why was it years after he was given the job?

You keep on moving the goals posts friend for Phil and soon he will be right off the playing field
 

Men_in_Boxes

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Empowered by MS? When was it announced that the head of Xbox was given the power to run Xbox and why was it years after he was given the job?

You keep on moving the goals posts friend for Phil and soon he will be right off the playing field

Watch more sports.

GMs and head coaches who get the greenlight to spend money often improve their win totals after acquiring talent.

XBox wasn't given the green light to spend until 2018.
 

GHG

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Nov 9, 2006
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Watch more sports.

GMs and head coaches who get the greenlight to spend money often improve their win totals after acquiring talent.

XBox wasn't given the green light to spend until 2018.

This is like a situation where a manager spends a lot of money on players (studios in this case) and that gives them an extra couple of years (at most) of breathing room. But ultimately, if results don't change after all that expenditure then they will inevitably get the chop.

The results are yet to change.
 

Zato

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Apr 17, 2015
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Watch more sports.

GMs and head coaches who get the greenlight to spend money often improve their win totals after acquiring talent.

XBox wasn't given the green light to spend until 2018.

I watch plenty but since when was money an issue for Xbox, why does buying studios have to be the answer?

343 has had massive investment Since it was built...... Halo Infinite is what they had to show.

Kidding yourself he has had no money to spend lol.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
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This is like a situation where a manager spends a lot of money on players (studios in this case) and that gives them an extra couple of years (at most) of breathing room. But ultimately, if results don't change after all that expenditure then they will inevitably get the chop.

The results are yet to change.
If the new studios fail he will get fired. Like a GM and failed draft picks. Until then he deserves to see out his vision. He put up with years of no budget. Now he gets to see through what he started in 2018. It takes time to make AAA games like avowed or fable. Funny people give Sony studios all the time in the world. I think obsidian and playground deserve time to.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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I watch plenty but since when was money an issue for Xbox, why does buying studios have to be the answer?

343 has had massive investment Since it was built...... Halo Infinite is what they had to show.

Kidding yourself he has had no money to spend lol.

Money was an issue for XBox when they started chopping studios near the end of the 360s life. They entered the XBO period with like 8 studios total and operated at that number for like 7 years straight.

Phil Spencer would have loved to purchase new studios the second he got the job. The reason why he didn't was because he had an operating budget. That budget raised considerably in 2018 when MS decided to take gaming seriously.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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This is like a situation where a manager spends a lot of money on players (studios in this case) and that gives them an extra couple of years (at most) of breathing room. But ultimately, if results don't change after all that expenditure then they will inevitably get the chop.

The results are yet to change.

Agreed, but acting like his 2018 investments were supposed to show their worth right now is laughable. MS is playing the long game and it feels like Sony fans are nervous about that.
 
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Jerm411

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Naw. He's responsible for the launch of the two most powerful consoles back to back.

But I thought it wasn’t about selling consoles....?

See this is exactly the problem I have with them and him....it’s a ton of “both sides of the mouth” talk...

They build the most powerful console and claim they want to compete but the second they start getting their shit pushed in, no no no now it’s about Gamepass and services.

You can’t have it both ways.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
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But I thought it wasn’t about selling consoles....?

See this is exactly the problem I have with them and him....it’s a ton of “both sides of the mouth” talk...

They build the most powerful console and claim they want to compete but the second they start getting their shit pushed in, no no no now it’s about Gamepass and services.

You can’t have it both ways.
You can have it both ways the best hardware series x and best services gamepass and xbox live. So yes you can have both.
 

Jerm411

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You can have it both ways the best hardware series x and best services gamepass and xbox live. So yes you can have both.

I get it but what I’m getting at is they say they want to compete but in reality they don’t really want to and then move the goalposts as such....

If you wanna compete, do it...show some damn Series X gameplay to show it off, make the deals Sony are doing, quit with the “good guy of gaming” nonsense and be more cutthroat.
 
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teezzy

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Mar 18, 2020
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It's not how long he's been in charge. It's how long he's been empowered by Microsoft.

The answer to that is roughly two years.

Right, and they've made great strides over these last two years. Dude came into a disaster. Let him do his thing. The fact that he's still able to build hype despite all of what must be going on behind the scenes speaks volumes.

Phil is gold.
 
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PropellerEar

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A remaster and dlc of a ps4 game versus a sky rim level rpg I wonder what takes longer to make lol. If it was spiderman 2 you might have a point.
The point was if Phil had made some smart purchases he would have some games by now not just bleeding edge.
 

quest

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I get it but what I’m getting at is they say they want to compete but in reality they don’t really want to and then move the goalposts as such....

If you wanna compete, do it...show some damn Series X gameplay to show it off, make the deals Sony are doing, quit with the “good guy of gaming” nonsense and be more cutthroat.
They don't have the money from corporate is that not clear to match 750 million dollar money hats? Phil got some money to buy smaller studios to grow nothing outrageous. Nothing like the insomniac deal. People really need to get a grip on this this is like baseball Sony is the big market team with unlimited resources. Xbox is the twins or Oakland A's small budget set by a cheap owners. Microsoft has to build like those teams build up the farm system buying small promising studios and grow them. They won't get the 400 million dollar free agent like Sony. Is it really that hard for people to get Microsoft money is not xbox money.
 
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kruis

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Right, and they've made great strides over these last two years. Dude came into a disaster. Let him do his thing. The fact that he's still able to build hype despite all of what must be going on behind the scenes speaks volumes.

Phil is gold.

The dude was part of the team that created the disaster. In 2008 he was made the general manager of Microsoft Studios, and became the studio's corporate vice president in 2009. He wasn't a janitor at MS' HQ until 2018.
 
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Apr 27, 2018
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Who cares, where are the first party games?
And I didn't mean this in a negative demeanor.

No, he shouldn't get sacked, his leadership helped turn around the Xbox brand, compared to where Xbox was it's like night and day and you simply can't say that the head of the Xbox division didn't significantly help with that.
 

Jerm411

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They don't have the money from corporate is that not clear to match 750 million dollar money hats? Phil got some money to buy smaller studios to grow nothing outrageous. Nothing like the insomniac deal. People really need to get a grip on this this is like baseball Sony is the big market team with unlimited resources. Xbox is the twins or Oakland A's small budget set by a cheap owners. Microsoft has to build like those teams build up the farm system buying small promising studios and grow them. They won't get the 400 million dollar free agent like Sony. Is it really that hard for people to get Microsoft money is not xbox money.

Well they’ve spent 500 mil. on a game they just had to delay so ya kinda lose me there....
 
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supernova8

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Most likely Microsoft big wigs (who don't really follow gaming at all) have told Phil they want the gaming version of Netflix within the next 5 years or else heads roll, and Phil is trying to do his best with his hands tied. Phil's been involved with Microsoft's gaming side for literally decades, so I cannot see him intentionally fucking this up. I really doubt the whole 'cross-gen' is actually his idea.
 
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lastmessiah

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But I thought it wasn’t about selling consoles....?

See this is exactly the problem I have with them and him....it’s a ton of “both sides of the mouth” talk...

They build the most powerful console and claim they want to compete but the second they start getting their shit pushed in, no no no now it’s about Gamepass and services.

You can’t have it both ways.

He can and will!
 

Men_in_Boxes

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You keep saying this over and over in this topic and when asked for an actual source, failed to provide one. "He had no support" except the huge position he held for 7 years.

We just have to use the organ located between our ears.

Everyone knew about XBoxs dire position between 2012-2017. Few first party studios and inferior third party support.

Everyone with an IQ above 10 knows that buying more studios would have helped the brand. We knew this is 2012. We knew this in 2017. Phil Spencer OBVIOUSLY would have loved to but studios the moment he was put in position but he couldn't because his hands were tied. Once MS realized they were serious about their future in gaming they gave him the resources to cut checks.

We don't need proof of this because it's common sense and companies don't like to publicize their strategic financial plans.
 
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Yes because Jim 750 million dollar ryan has a real passion for gaming lol. Andrew house and his guys did sure but the king of money hats not so much.
He supported Guerilla and Media Molecule and brought the best games from Europe to playstation. He is a suite but he knows his shit. He knows his customers.
 

tillbot8

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Aug 4, 2020
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2-3 years into this generation should tell us everything! It is kinda his first new gen as boss. Not the best start sure but I think he deserves a little time at least. Nothing wrong with machine he signed off on, nothing wrong with that at all!
 

Enjay

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If the new studios fail he will get fired. Like a GM and failed draft picks. Until then he deserves to see out his vision. He put up with years of no budget. Now he gets to see through what he started in 2018. It takes time to make AAA games like avowed or fable. Funny people give Sony studios all the time in the world. I think obsidian and playground deserve time to.
Xbox hasn't had a good exclusive in like a decade.
 

thismeinteil

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If Phil Spencer was leading the charge on Xbox's vision, I'd say yes. I'm sure someone who was around for the highest point in Xbox history, the 360, would want to repeat that success. However, the CEO is a online services man, so that's where Xbox is headed.

Phil is just a PR yes man. He's there to be the new face of Xbox after Mattrick, and do whatever the higher ups want done. He was fine with DRM. He's fine with all his games going to PC, making it basically pointless to buy Xbox HW. He's fine with GamePass/GaaS being the future of Xbox.
 
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so she took 5 years and couldnt produce a game. needed an extra few months, lets go with 1 full year. that means her game wouldve taken 5-6 years to make. Lets see what else had a 5-6 year dev time.

god of war
days gone
horizon
ghost of tsushima

and they didnt have to make their game for three consoles, including one for launch. if she has to go then so do the studio heads over at the sony game studios.

the issue here isnt 343i. its poor management by MS. Dont fall for Phil's bs. he threw his own studio under the bus. anyone with a set of eyes wouldve told you that this game wasnt ready. you think Phil didnt know or couldnt tell that the game looked rough? of course he did. but he sent them out to the wolves because he knew the fans would turn against 343i and not him.

i really dont think this is true when Phil Spencer, Aaron Greenberg and Matt Booty are all white men. This isnt just 343i. NONE Of their studios are ready. and not just for launch, they wont be ready for the next 3 years. this is all on the men or women at the top. I dont care if they are white or black or asian or transgender. the buck stops with them. blaming women and minorities is lame when you have execs at the top dropping the ball in spectacular fashion.
God of war came after another game was canceled
GoT also came after canceling another game.
Horizon came 3 years after Killzone.
Day's Gone is a new IP from a studio that didn't work on consoles since forever. A small team.

Also all of them had to re-build new engines due to coming from playstation 3 Cell.
 

quest

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He supported Guerilla and Media Molecule and brought the best games from Europe to playstation. He is a suite but he knows his shit. He knows his customers.
He was also handed the 1920s Yankees. Not like he has a hard job instead of building on what andrew house did he is just going the money hat route out of fear of failure. He should snatch up studios do bold deals like the WB one. Not hide behind his check book and what house and his guys built. Show some guts. I miss the ps4 launch crew so much they were fearless. They showed the system February that year price June that year because they were real visionaries. Jim ryan is a Barry switzer sure he can win handed a team full of hall of Famers but if he has to build anything lol.
 

kruis

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Phil is just a PR yes man. He's there to be the new face of Xbox after Mattrick, and do whatever the higher ups want done. He was fine with DRM. He's fine with all his games going to PC, making it basically pointless to buy Xbox HW. He's fine with GamePass/GaaS being the future of Xbox.

Most likely Microsoft big wigs (who don't really follow gaming at all) have told Phil they want the gaming version of Netflix within the next 5 years or else heads roll, and Phil is trying to do his best with his hands tied. Phil's been involved with Microsoft's gaming side for literally decades, so I cannot see him intentionally fucking this up. I really doubt the whole 'cross-gen' is actually his idea.

I feel bad for the guy. I think he honestly is trying to turn the ship around since 2013, but the dude keeps getting a shit hand when it comes to actual games.

He's definitely invested alot into the dev space. And he's tried to let them do their thing. They just haven't had a grand title moment since he took over.

The only one with a higher position than Phil Spencer in Microsoft is Satya Nadella, CEO of the company. Please stop pretending like Spencer is a low-ranking Microsoft employee who gets bullied around by lowlevel managers from different Microsoft divisions who don't know shit about gaming. Spencer is at the top of the company.

 
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anothertech

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I feel bad for the guy. I think he honestly is trying to turn the ship around since 2013, but the dude keeps getting a shit hand when it comes to actual games.

He's definitely invested alot into the dev space. And he's tried to let them do their thing. They just haven't had a grand title moment since he took over.
 

VALCON 82

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Feb 20, 2018
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You keep saying this over and over in this topic and when asked for an actual source, failed to provide one. "He had no support" except the huge position he held for 7 years.

Here's a question... or more... (no i'm not against you/ just piggybacking off of your point)
How much did Microsoft spend on Xbox from 2013/14-2018? (Phil's entire tenure of being "The Guy" until they took "the reigns" off of him)
how much money on R&D for Scorpio? Marketing for Scorpio?
How much money on Terry Crewes?
How much money in total had Microsoft invested into 1st and 3rd party deals over the greater part of a decade and still not "support" .."the Guy"...
...
How fast did Microsoft shutter the windows phone when it failed to take off or turn heads...
How much longer does Phil get?

Microsoft has spent a shit ton of money on Xbox. period! They didn't just start from nothing in 2018. I still believe that regardless of Phil getting a "chance to see out his vision" or " not getting the job done" he will still step aside /move on to other things by end of 2021/mid 2022. People don't stay at these positions forever.
 

NickFire

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I think MS deserves the criticism it is taking, but that does not necessarily mean Phil is responsible. Maybe he is, maybe he is not. I don't know and don't like calling for people's jobs without a really good reason.

From the perspective of hype man he did great until the devs came up empty. The hardware still could be the best deal in gaming in terms of raw power, and its too soon to pass judgement on the hardware overall IMO. From a consumer perspective I think the S will slow progress, but if MS wants a cheap console option then Phil has probably succeeded there. The only real issue is the lack of great software for Series X, and the Halo delay IMO. Was Phil responsible for overseeing development of it? And was he authorized to make changes rapidly when needed?
 
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Vawn

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I understand Xbox fans wanting a scapegoat and a savior to believe in, but it's been more than long enough to realize the problems and solutions run far deeper than just Mattrick and Spencer.
 

WatDat

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Neogaf has always favored Sony so any negative publicity Xbox receives signals the end to the brand


Serious question (that will predictably not get any serious answers) but.......is there anyone here that can actually argue against the statement above?

I anxiously await the entertaining responses.
 
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Most likely Microsoft big wigs (who don't really follow gaming at all) have told Phil they want the gaming version of Netflix within the next 5 years or else heads roll, and Phil is trying to do his best with his hands tied. Phil's been involved with Microsoft's gaming side for literally decades, so I cannot see him intentionally fucking this up. I really doubt the whole 'cross-gen' is actually his idea.

He's not intentionally fucking up, he just seems out of his depth as he doesn't really seem to understand gaming or its consumers. He also has a penchant for misleading and making PR statements, which the faithful fall for hook, line and sinker every time.

Like the 'I'm in Japan Xbox fans, I'm going to bring those Japanese games you all want to Xbox' he repeated about 4 years in a row which lead to basically nothing at all. What was the point of the charade? Just come out and be honest; say Xbox is focusing on more Western developers or Japanese games are not that profitable on the system.
 

RevenantX

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Satya Ceo loves Phill. He promoted Phill as VP of all devices and entertainment and Xbox. So ya go home kids. He making money while you all just crying over video games
 

Dnice1

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But I thought it wasn’t about selling consoles....?

See this is exactly the problem I have with them and him....it’s a ton of “both sides of the mouth” talk...

They build the most powerful console and claim they want to compete but the second they start getting their shit pushed in, no no no now it’s about Gamepass and services.

You can’t have it both ways.
I don't think they are trying to have it both ways. I think they are just trying to compete in all segments of gaming. Whether its Gamepass with services, putting 1st party exclusives of PC, or streaming to mobile devices with XCloud. I know its hard for those emotionally invested in "console warring" to come to terms with, but MS don't have to be the market leader in console sales to have a successful gaming business. They just want to have a premium offering in every category including console.
 
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Zato

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Money was an issue for XBox when they started chopping studios near the end of the 360s life. They entered the XBO period with like 8 studios total and operated at that number for like 7 years straight.

Phil Spencer would have loved to purchase new studios the second he got the job. The reason why he didn't was because he had an operating budget. That budget raised considerably in 2018 when MS decided to take gaming seriously.

ok so, what was the problem with the studios already owned by MS and the quality of their output? Phil is the man to makes sure the ship is running right ...... you are making it the exclusive issue that has held Phil back is the number of studios they own?
 

PlayVerso

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Phil Spencer arrived as the savior for the Xbox brand, currently the Xbox brand has lost a lot of popularity, the sales of Xbox consoles have decreased a lot in recent years despite the launch of One X and GamePass, one of the most anticipated games for fans was canceled, Scalebound, if Series X launch is worse than Xbox One, Phil Spencer should resign.
 

cireza

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Replacing the head of every studio and entity all the time looks like a great way to never have a consistent vision and good products.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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ok so, what was the problem with the studios already owned by MS and the quality of their output? Phil is the man to makes sure the ship is running right ...... you are making it the exclusive issue that has held Phil back is the number of studios they own?

My guess, they were stretched too thin. Having a limited number of studios for their platform meant that games needed to release at certain intervals otherwise droughts would last too long.

Another guess is that making games is hard. Sony just gave Sucker Punch 6 years to produce an 83 Metacritic game that basically did nothing innovative and no multiplayer mode.

I think Phil convincing MS to buy 6 more studios was brilliant.

I think Phil bolstering GamePass is brilliant.

I think Phil adding PC into the XBox ecosystem is brilliant.

I think Phil undercutting the PS5 on price with the Series S is brilliant.

I think Phil understanding multiplayer, sandbox, GAAS is brilliant.

The games will come.

 
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