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Drama Clickbait Cringe Shadow of Tomb Raider Nextgen patch Analysis (PS5 vs SX/S) - A Digital foundry video

FoundryMusic

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Give DF few clicks
 
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sncvsrtoip

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The ps4 pro version is definitely using CB as well and not native.
I see, so quite a big mistake by df in this video ;) turns out they go quite natural way double fps and jumping resolution form 1872cb on ps4 pro to 2160cb (similar like in ghost of tsushima dc), seeing image quality and performance very good choice
 
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Lucky8BB

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Disagree, I think they improved shooting in UC4. In fact I just didnt get to do enough shooting.

I think Uncharted is several levels above TR, in terms of characters, dialogue and voice acting in particular Uncharted just destroys TR, I hated listening to Camilla Luddington and her breathy voice acting and all the characters were forgettable.

TR also doesn't have the charming characters or any interesting back and forth dialogue, nobody is charming at all. The villians in TR also terrible.

Uncharted 1 has aged badly but anything from 2 onward plays great for me, looks great and I think they all have great stories,

I think Uncharted 2 and Lost Legacy are the best ones followed by 3 and then 4.

My issue with 4 is all the forced walking and the pacing in general.

The stories of Uncharted are just way more engaging from what I've played too, I was told TR reboot was the best one and if I couldn't get through that....what hope is there for the others?

The thing about Uncharted is that the gameplay is actually great and underappreciated, you just need to play the multiplayer to see how good it actually is. I mean it puts most 3rd person shooters to shame. The rope in UC4 really made things a lot more fun IMO.
I dont consider shooting in U4 to be very fun, just the opposite because I have real troubles aiming in this game on gamepad. Aiming feels laggy (maybe it's vsync lag to blame), and it's especially hard to aim when you have to shoot at the medium to long range (and enemies in this game are constantly moving around). I hope we will get PS5 patch, because 60fps should improve input latency in this game and make aiming much easier.

And BTW. I'm playing on gamepads since PS2 days and I have no problems in games like Gears Of War series, COD, Battlefield, Borderlands series, GTA series (in fact in GTA5 I can easily aim even without aiming aids), but in Uncharted 4 I prefer to use auto lock feature, because otherwise my aiming is not precise and fast enough.

Maybe dialogue and voice acting is better in uncharted series, but I dont care that much about these things. Shooting and exploration are much more rewarding to me in tomb raider series, and that's something I care about the most in such games.
 
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Bryank75

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I dont consider shooting in U4 to be very fun, just the opposite because I have real troubles aiming in this game on gamepad. Aiming feels laggy (maybe it's vsync lag to blame), and it's especially hard to aim when you have to shoot at the medium to long range (and enemies in this game are constantly moving around). I hope we will get PS5 patch, because 60fps should improve input latency in this game and make aiming much easier.

And BTW. I'm playing on gamepads since PS2 days and I have no problems in games like Gears Of War series, COD, Battlefield, Borderlands series, GTA series (in fact in GTA5 I can easily aim even without aiming aids), but in Uncharted 4 I prefer to use auto lock feature, because otherwise my aiming is not precise and fast enough.

Weird, I always felt Gears was so stiff.... like you were moving underwater when aiming and the tank controls were horrible on top of that.
I guess every game can't appeal to everyone.
 
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kingkaiser

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Does Microsoft have some deal with Samsung and LG going on? I am asking because their premium console only delivers the "premium" experience with activated VRR.
 

Mr Moose

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Does Microsoft have some deal with Samsung and LG going on? I am asking because their premium console only delivers the "premium" experience with activated VRR.
They do with Samsung, not sure about LG.


I checked, they do lol.

 

SomeGit

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DF said the resolution is around 2016p.
They said that they can’t say there is DSR or not.

“For Shadow, we're looking at 2016p on the Microsoft machine and 1872p on Sony's hardware. Pixel-counting this game isn't easy (and TAA lessens the importance of native resolution somewhat) but there remains the possibility of dynamic resolution in play here. That said, if it's dynamic, it's not dropping very often.”


BTW the OP is wrong in any case.
Honestly this patch is so lazy on the Xbox side that I would bet that they didn't bother changing the DRS threshold, which would explain why the framerate matched the FPS Boost version. So it's probably DRS but only set to trigger at sub 30 fps drops like the One X version.
They probably looked at the FPS Boost version and said "yeah that looks fine" and removed the framerate lock.
 

Heisenberg007

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Summary-


PS5 resolution mode version uses 4k CBR to maintain stable 60fps throughout the game. Very smooth experience overall.

Xbox Series X - Resolution mode runs at native 4k with no CBR or DRS which causes frame rate drops in cutscenes and few intense action set pieces with heavy Alpha effects. Overall it runs close to 60.

Series X version in Frame rate mode runs at 1080p but for some odd reason again runs at 60fps like resolution mode. Both modes give 60 but one at 4k and one at 1080p.

Tbh i don't see the point of 1080p60 fps mode much. My guess they just forgot to remove or didn't bother doing any thing with high frame rate mode.
It's not native 4K, as mentioned b DF. It's close to that, but it's not full native 4K.
 
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It's also dropping framerate.

Devs just didn't give a shit and kept XSX resolution while machine can't handle it. Change in PS5 resolution setup is much wiser decision.

For some reason trying to balance things out is just not being done for Xbox games....its almost like they care more about resolution over everything else.

And some folks see this as a ....win....

Interesting.

Xbox Series has VRR that solves the issue surrounding framerate with Smooth Performance. PS5 doesn't have VRR that's why they focused on stable Frame Rate.
 

assurdum

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DF themselves said multiple times. 4k cbr is half of native 4k.

Native 4k at 60fps will cause sharp drops on PS5. So they went CBR route according to DF.

SX being more powerful can handle it better but still struggle under stress areas
Say 4K CBR is half of native 4k is laughable. In fact CBR save around 30% of performance compared the native resolution but to be fair it reaches full resolution temporarily. What Tom tries to argue is fallacy. It's incredibly the level of incompetence shows this guy at every face off. And the only reason because series X it handles such resolution it's the BC with the one X setting, hardware power has nothing to do with the resolution choice.
 
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Say 4K CBR is half of native 4k is laughable. In fact CBR save around 30% of performance compared the native resolution but to be fair it reaches full resolution temporarily. What Tom tries to argue is fallacy. It's incredibly the level of incompetence shows this guy at every face off. And the only reason because series X it handles such resolution it's the BC with the one X setting, hardware power has nothing to do with the resolution choice.
They only talk about a half the pixels resolution (which is technically false as some CBR methods do renders some parts natively) when the CBR is only on Sony machine. When there is CBR on XBox oddly they don't mention such things anymore. This is them talking about the CBR mode on XBX version of Rise. No mention of half the pixels resolution here. Only 'reconstruction' , '4K', '2160p' and praises of how great it looks. Reading their article one might think that "reconstruction technique" on XBX is a genuine 4K rendering technique.

gets a 4K upgrade, retaining what looks like the same visual feature-set (enhanced draw distance, tessellation etc) but using a reconstruction technique similar to checkerboard rendering to produce a pixel count of 2160p just like on the Pro. Not only does this mode look great on Xbox One X, it also offers improved performance...You lose some fidelity when using this type of rendering but it works beautifully on a 4K screen

But what bothers me is them claiming the image is marginally better on Series X, which is completely false.
giving a marginal lead overall in image quality
On paper it should be the case but this is not what happenning here as in most cases as NXGamer said, both games look virtually identical.
 
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Tchu-Espresso

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Xbox Series has VRR that solves the issue surrounding framerate with Smooth Performance. PS5 doesn't have VRR that's why they focused on stable Frame Rate.
Keep telling yourself that developers cater primarily for such a minor portion of their user base by prioritising poor performance. It is simply not true.
 
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OmegaSupreme

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Keep telling yourself that developers cater primarily for such a minor portion of their user base by prioritising poor performance. It is simply not true.
This. I'd wager maybe 1 percent of people have a vrr capable display who are also on a series x. Maybe even less.
 

assurdum

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They only talk about a half the pixels resolution (which is technically false as some CBR methods do renders some parts natively) when the CBR is only on Sony machine. When there is CBR on XBox oddly they don't mention such things anymore. This is them talking about the CBR mode on XBX version of Rise. No mention of half the pixels resolution here. Only 'reconstruction' , '4K', '2160p' and praises of how great it looks. Reading their article one might think that "reconstruction technique" on XBX is a genuine 4K rendering technique.



But what bothers me is them claiming the image is marginally better on Series X, which is completely false.

On paper it should be the case but this is not what happenning here as in most cases as NXGamer said, both games look virtually identical.
I perfectly know DF and their attitude. Put a bolded 1920x2160p writing hurts less the Xbox fans for the better ps5 performance. It's incredibly how childish they become everytime a performance verdict could hurts their loyal fanbase. Said that outside more aliased transparencies, it's impressive how good and sharp is the IQ on the ps5, not sure where they see all that superiority of the native resolution, which of course is native and it has his advantages but who gives a fuck if such CBR is virtually identical in terms of sharpness.
 
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They only talk about a half the pixels resolution (which is technically false as some CBR methods do renders some parts natively) when the CBR is only on Sony machine. When there is CBR on XBox oddly they don't mention such things anymore. This is them talking about the CBR mode on XBX version of Rise. No mention of half the pixels resolution here. Only 'reconstruction' , '4K', '2160p' and praises of how great it looks. Reading their article one might think that "reconstruction technique" on XBX is a genuine 4K rendering technique.



But what bothers me is them claiming the image is marginally better on Series X, which is completely false.

On paper it should be the case but this is not what happenning here as in most cases as NXGamer said, both games look virtually identical.
Big baby feelings hurt?
Go watch the PS4 pro analysis of rise and let me know if any of what you said is true.
Spoiler alert.... It's not.
 

kingkaiser

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Keep telling yourself that developers cater primarily for such a minor portion of their user base by prioritising poor performance. It is simply not true.
Then how come developers almost always aim for a higher resolution on the X than on PS5. Obviously the NEAR 4k resolution in many Series X titles seem to be overkill for the hardware, leading to framerate problems, yet developers seem to deliberately ignore this issue. They wouldn't do this if they weren't actively pushing for VRR to become more mainstream.
 

skit_data

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Might be worth trying this out now then, got it from PS+ a while ago and had completely forgot about it until now
 

Heisenberg007

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Then how come developers almost always aim for a higher resolution on the X than on PS5. Obviously the NEAR 4k resolution in many Series X titles seem to be overkill for the hardware, leading to framerate problems, yet developers seem to deliberately ignore this issue. They wouldn't do this if they weren't actively pushing for VRR to become more mainstream.
That's because this is still a BC game and just inherits the One X resolution as is, just like it does on most BC games on both XSX and PS5. It's the same reason why Series S is 900p because One S was 900p.
 

Tchu-Espresso

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Then how come developers almost always aim for a higher resolution on the X than on PS5. Obviously the NEAR 4k resolution in many Series X titles seem to be overkill for the hardware, leading to framerate problems, yet developers seem to deliberately ignore this issue. They wouldn't do this if they weren't actively pushing for VRR to become more mainstream.
Most likely a dev kit issue as some have alluded to on here.
 

Stuart360

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Yeah the problem with a lot of these BC patches is that the devs nearly always use the Pro/OneX resolution set ups. The problem there is that PS5 is a lot more powerful over the Pro than the XSX is over the OneX.
The XSX can get away with it in some cases but with a demanding game like this problems can arise.
I dont know why its so hard just to change the resolution slightly.
 

kingkaiser

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Most likely a dev kit issue as some have alluded to on here.
I dont know why its so hard just to change the resolution slightly.
If it's really a dev kit issue that hinders something as simple as a resolution change then it's deliberately ignored by Microsoft.
It would also play beautifully into the marketing partnerships with LG and Samsung. The only TV manufacturers with flawless VRR support.
 

ethomaz

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Then how come developers almost always aim for a higher resolution on the X than on PS5. Obviously the NEAR 4k resolution in many Series X titles seem to be overkill for the hardware, leading to framerate problems, yet developers seem to deliberately ignore this issue. They wouldn't do this if they weren't actively pushing for VRR to become more mainstream.
?

They pushed for 4k with framerate issues with Xbox One X without VRR support.
So I don’t think the reason to do that is due VRR.
 
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Andodalf

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Does Microsoft have some deal with Samsung and LG going on? I am asking because their premium console only delivers the "premium" experience with activated VRR.
Sony doesnt have VRR across their range of TVs. They don’t want to have their console promote sales of others TVs
 

kingkaiser

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?

They pushed for 4k with framerate issues with Xbox One X without VRR support.
So I don’t think the reason to do that is due VRR.
Wrong, Xbox One X and even S both support VRR, just not with all games.
Sony doesnt have VRR across their range of TVs. They don’t want to have their console promote sales of others TVs
Yeah, apparently it's because the subpar SOC from MediaTek they and many other TV manufacturers use. Samsung and LG build their own chipsets and thus are currently the only viable choice for "Gaming" TVs.
 
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Mr Moose

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Wrong, Xbox One X and even S both support VRR, just not with all games.

Yeah, apparently it's because the subpar SOC from MediaTek they and many other TV manufacturers use. Samsung and LG build their own chipsets and thus are currently the only viable choice for "Gaming" TVs.
FreeSync, not VRR (HDMI 2.1 feature).
 

ethomaz

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Wrong, Xbox One X and even S both support VRR, just not with all games.

Yeah, apparently it's because the subpar SOC from MediaTek they and many other TV manufacturers use. Samsung and LG build their own chipsets and thus are currently the only viable choice for "Gaming" TVs.
They never supported VRR.
HDMI 1.3 (which Xbox One X is based) not even can support it.

I wasn't aware of this. Which games?
None. Zero.

It is not possible to support VRR on Xbox One X no matter what the devs want.

People create some weird claims lol
 
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Excess

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It's amazing how demanding this game still is on PC, so not surprised at all to see it still struggle on console. It's no wonder they didn't even bother adding ray-tracing to the console version, but I think it's a huge missed opportunity. In my opinion, ray-tracing at 4K completely changes the look of the game. This is a photo I took where you can see the shadows and textures on the wooden stakes and bridge to point where almost looks completely real.

 

Mr Moose

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It's amazing how demanding this game still is on PC, so not surprised at all to see it still struggle on console. It's no wonder they didn't even bother adding ray-tracing to the console version, but I think it's a huge missed opportunity. In my opinion, ray-tracing at 4K completely changes the look of the game. This is a photo I took where you can see the shadows and textures on the wooden stakes and bridge to point where almost looks completely real.

It's a BC game.
 

intbal

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They never supported VRR.
HDMI 1.3 (which Xbox One X is based) not even can support it.


None. Zero.

It is not possible to support VRR on Xbox One X no matter what the devs want.

People create some weird claims lol

If this is a joke post, I don't get it.
Xbox One X is HDMI 2.0b. Xbox One S is HDMI 2.0a. Both have robust VRR support.
I use the VRR feature of my Xbox One X frequently with my VRR-capable monitor. Not only is it obviously functioning based on visual appearance, my monitor has a refresh rate display feature, so I can see the refresh rate changing to match the game's output in real time.
I admit that I've never tried to use the VRR of my One S. I'll give that a go when I find an unlocked game on One S that runs between 40-60hz.
 

Kenpachii

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It's amazing how demanding this game still is on PC, so not surprised at all to see it still struggle on console. It's no wonder they didn't even bother adding ray-tracing to the console version, but I think it's a huge missed opportunity. In my opinion, ray-tracing at 4K completely changes the look of the game. This is a photo I took where you can see the shadows and textures on the wooden stakes and bridge to point where almost looks completely real.


Jup just completed the game and frankly RT shadows are fantastic in this game. RT really adds something here.
 

squarealex

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First, not a PS5 native application... So I guess.. they use the last SDK PS4 Pro for the CBR solution on PS5.

Then PS4 Pro is at 3328x1872c = 3 115 008 pixels (so 1664x1872)

PS5 Resolution Mode use 4k checkboarding and not 1920x2160 checkboarding issue (which is the RDR2 case), but yes, internaly 4k checkboarding mean original native is 1920x2160.

But we can see PS5 is more sharpen than PS4 Pro version at 400% Zoom. 1 Millions pixels difference...



And Series X on comparison



We can see, the sharpeness seems the same...(but missing 3 millions pixels) but PS5 have more edges (but better performance)..


Keep in mind it's just a PS4 Pro Boost/ One X Boost patch and not a native port...
 
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cyber69

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i love you lion GIF by Music Choice


The two systems are pretty much a wash. Given a choice of only one. I would choose the ultra fast load times of native PS5 games.
 
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Mr Moose

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First, not a PS5 native application... So I guess.. they use the last SDK PS4 Pro for the CBR solution on PS5.

Then PS4 Pro is at 3328x1872p = 6 230 016 pixels

PS5 Resolution Mode use 4k checkboarding and not 1920x2160 checkboarding issue (which is the RDR2 case), but yes, internaly 4k checkboarding mean original native is 1920x2160.

Also, the PS5 run "less pixels" than PS4 Pro version 1920x2160p = 4 147 200 pixels

But we can see PS5 is more sharpen than PS4 Pro version at 400% Zoom



And Series X on comparison



We can see, the sharpeness seems the same... but PS5 have more edges (but better performance)..


Keep in mind it's just a PS4 Pro Boost/ One X Boost patch and not a native port...
Pro uses checkerboard 1872p. They increased it to 4k CB with the patch for PS5.
 
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Arioco

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First, not a PS5 native application... So I guess.. they use the last SDK PS4 Pro for the CBR solution on PS5.

Then PS4 Pro is at 3328x1872p = 6 230 016 pixels

PS5 Resolution Mode use 4k checkboarding and not 1920x2160 checkboarding issue (which is the RDR2 case), but yes, internaly 4k checkboarding mean original native is 1920x2160.

Also, the PS5 run "less pixels" than PS4 Pro version 1920x2160p = 4 147 200 pixels

But we can see PS5 is more sharpen than PS4 Pro version at 400% Zoom



And Series X on comparison



We can see, the sharpeness seems the same... but PS5 have more edges (but better performance)..


Keep in mind it's just a PS4 Pro Boost/ One X Boost patch and not a native port...


¿?

Pro is a little blurrier than PS5 because PS5 is running at higher resolution. Pro is 1872p but is also using CB, it's not native 1872p.
 
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Esppiral

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Can someone tell what next gen patch are they talking about? Because it's been months since the game received an update at least on Xbox an it was a BC enhancement not a next gen upgrade.
 
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Sep 18, 2019
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First, not a PS5 native application... So I guess.. they use the last SDK PS4 Pro for the CBR solution on PS5.

Then PS4 Pro is at 3328x1872c = 3 115 008 pixels (so 1664x1872)

PS5 Resolution Mode use 4k checkboarding and not 1920x2160 checkboarding issue (which is the RDR2 case), but yes, internaly 4k checkboarding mean original native is 1920x2160.

But we can see PS5 is more sharpen than PS4 Pro version at 400% Zoom. 1 Millions pixels difference...



And Series X on comparison



We can see, the sharpeness seems the same...(but missing 3 millions pixels) but PS5 have more edges (but better performance)..


Keep in mind it's just a PS4 Pro Boost/ One X Boost patch and not a native port...
Actually what we see is CBR artefacts seen on vegetation, not the typical aliasing (you can also see aliasing on XSX). But the game is not only made of vegetation, there are plenty of rocks, walls etc. in that game (more so than vegetation if you do the tombs stuff). Stuff that they didn't show unsuprisingly as I'd except those to look a bit sharper on PS5. Overall for image quality it's a wash. A bit more sharper on PS5 but with some CBR artefacts. Better image in motion on XSX but it's hard to see because of the TAA + motion blur.

Obviously the PS5 still has a noticeable performance advantage, up to 10 fps higher in some areas.
 
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