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Series which, as you see it, peaked earlier - or later - than we all think.

Tschumi

Member
I'm downloading Civilization 3: Complete again. Why? Because I think it's the best Civilization game.

Oh, sure, Civ 4 had Leonard Nimoy and the best music, civ 5 and 6 had... Hexagons, and civ 6 had an attractive geek girl doing their update videos... But civilization is meant to be a virtual boardgame: it's 2D; it's pixel art; it's bloated and overlong; it always ends with every square block of land covered in train tracks... Civ 3 was beautiful, it had a staid, pacific sense, with lovely starting music and simple but robust gameplay... Great expansions which included the series' first multiplayer... The best. In my opinion, at least.

(For the record Call to Power 2 and Alpha Centauri are also fantastic games, to me)

I think i might be pretty lonely in my belief that Civ 3 is the best in the series. But there it is.

What are some series which, according to you, peaked earlier - or later - than we all think?

I wonder about Zelda, the Mario games, Halo, Resident Evil, Doom, The Elder Scrolls, Tales, Final Fantasy, GTA, whathaveyou...
 
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Agree about Civilization, 6 is just so boring.

Far Cry definitely peaked with 2, everything since has been a significant downgrade. The new Doom games are better than the old ones though. And Mario is still great but the games have been a bit too easy lately, wish Nintendo would throw a more 'hardcore' one at us.
 

hybrid_birth

Gold Member
I don't think the series X or series s has peaked yet. Way too early. It likely will continue to sell when next next generation comes out.

Edit;
New Girl Facepalm GIF by HULU
 
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Tschumi

Member
I think the ARMA series peaked with the first game, Operation Flashpoint, later renamed ARMA: Cold War Crisis or whatever.. a more robust and non-buggy story line, great expansions, map editor, scope, graphics, scale, draw distance all pretty great for its time... Yup..
 
Final Fantasy didn't peak with FFVII, it peaked with FFIX.
Tomb Raider didn't peak with its first 2 entries...it peaked with The Last Revelation. (and the 3rd one is just TR2 but harder and worse)
Metal Gear Solid peaked with MGS3, not the first MGS game.

And i say all of this with no shame 🤷‍♂️
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Mario: Peaked with Super Mario World for sure
SMB3 is better than SMW in almost every way. Despite new hardware, SMW did nothing to really advance the series, and it felt rushed in a lot of ways. SMW needed to take Mario to a new level and instead it was just a somewhat worse, less polished rehash of the previous game.
Zelda: Peaked with A Link to the Past for sure
Ok, we're friends again.
 

ParaSeoul

Member
Chronological or, like, in order of development?
Release obviously,1,2,3,4,5,0.I don't consider the Kiwami games faithful remakes and think 7 is the Saints Row 3 of this series. And while I was typing this I realized I forgot about 6 but thats a pretty good summary of that game.
 

Tschumi

Member
Release obviously,1,2,3,4,5,0.I don't consider the Kiwami games faithful remakes and think 7 is the Saints Row 3 of this series. And while I was typing this I realized I forgot about 6 but thats a pretty good summary of that game.
Good summary haha.. what's different about Kiwami? I thought it was just graphics, i have them both though I've yet to get into the series, only an hour or two into zero
 
SMB3 is better than SMW in almost every way. Despite new hardware, SMW did nothing to really advance the series, and it felt rushed in a lot of ways. SMW needed to take Mario to a new level and instead it was just a somewhat worse, less polished rehash of the previous game.

Ok, we're friends again.
While I don't agree with anything you say about SMW, I am torn between picking SMB3 or SMW. To me they're both masterpieces and two of the best games ever created, true innovation and perfection.

Many of Nintendo's best SNES games were just a rehash of NES games (Metroid, Castlevania, Mario, Zelda) but it worked out brilliantly.
 
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Amiga

Member
Final Fantasy 6
Uncharted 3
Halo 2
Resident Evil 4
Super Mario 64
GTA 4
Assassins' Creed the Ezio trilogy.
Battlefield Bad Company 2
Farcry 2
Killzone 2
MGS1
 

Dream-Knife

Member
SMB3 is better than SMW in almost every way. Despite new hardware, SMW did nothing to really advance the series, and it felt rushed in a lot of ways. SMW needed to take Mario to a new level and instead it was just a somewhat worse, less polished rehash of the previous game.
The All-Stars version fixes that even. Yoshi is my favorite Nintendo character, but yeah SMB3 on SNES is the best. Runners up: SMW, ML2.
 

RaZoR No1

Member
Forza Motorsport 4, still the best and most fun FM.

Forza Horizon 3.
FH 4 and 5 are still great/good IMO, but after 3 the series didn't really advance much further and now most of the races are off the track and not on the track..

Gears of War 3, story wise the last GoW game, which was good.

Gran Turismo 4, 5 felt not finished and with FM as a rival somehow not advanced enough. Especially with the standard and premium cars.. GT6 was released for the wrong console and at the wrong time (def. needed the PS4 version) Let us hope that GT 7 will be a good successor.

NFS U2 / MW, cannot decide beween those two. Both are great and were at the peak of the NFS series. Even NFS HP2 and NFS U1 are still untouched, but everything after NFS MW went just down except NFS Pro Street, because it tried to be something else.


GTA 4, GTA V just became a cash mine with GTA:O and therefore no support for the offline mode.. GTA 4 DLCs were awesome and must play for any GTA fans. Additionaly I didn't really like that we had 3 MC..

Saints Row 3, because 4 was just too extreme over the top.
 

Elysion

Member
Pokémon Gold/Silver are still the best games in the series, and to this day have not been surpassed in terms of content, features, and the overall package (that’s especially true for the DS remakes). Some of the later games are pretty great too (B/W for example), and many of them have nice QoL improvements, but overall G/S just have much more to offer.

Legends Arceus is the first Pokémon game that really takes a step forward, and it’s gameplay (especially the battles) is unquestionably superior to the older games in every way, but it‘s being held back by its overall barrenness and lack of content and features. But it‘s a great foundation for the series going forward, and if the next mainline games are similar to Legends Arceus, but with explorable cities, dungeons, gyms, a Pokémon league and multiplayer, then the chances are good that Gold and Silver will finally be surpassed.
 

Tschumi

Member
Pokémon Gold/Silver are still the best games in the series, and to this day have not been surpassed in terms of content, features, and the overall package (that’s especially true for the DS remakes). Some of the later games are pretty great too (B/W for example), and many of them have nice QoL improvements, but overall G/S just have much more to offer.

Legends Arceus is the first Pokémon game that really takes a step forward, and it’s gameplay (especially the battles) is unquestionably superior to the older games in every way, but it‘s being held back by its overall barrenness and lack of content and features. But it‘s a great foundation for the series going forward, and if the next mainline games are similar to Legends Arceus, but with explorable cities, dungeons, gyms, a Pokémon league and multiplayer, then the chances are good that Gold and Silver will finally be surpassed.
I gotta be honest, i bought a 3ds purely to play HeartGold. But i couldn't find a copy of the bish. Sold the 3ds... But I might buy a 2ds on the cheap just for it. Something about the pseudo 3d visual style warms my heart...

... Furthermore you make me interested in future releases, nice!
 

Elysion

Member
Easier to name series which didn't peak a long time ago

Has there ever been a series that just got better and better with each entry (or even just remained constant), without any dips in quality? Even among the most beloved franchises, like Zelda or Mario, there have been games that are generally considered subpar (by the series‘ standards).
 

Tschumi

Member
Has there ever been a series that just got better and better with each entry (or even just remained constant), without any dips in quality? Even among the most beloved franchises, like Zelda or Mario, there have been games that are generally considered subpar (by the series‘ standards).
Some people might say elder scrolls? So far? Though I personally wouldn't
 

Yoboman

Member
Has there ever been a series that just got better and better with each entry (or even just remained constant), without any dips in quality? Even among the most beloved franchises, like Zelda or Mario, there have been games that are generally considered subpar (by the series‘ standards).
Hmm

Id say maybe GTA. Though some might have favourites earlier on, I'd say they objectively got better with each new game. RDR as well

Id also put Warcraft, Mario Kart and Persona in there. Maybe Dragon Quesy as well? But I'm not completely familiar with every DQ game. If those franchises had any bumps they were minor
 
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ParaSeoul

Member
Good summary haha.. what's different about Kiwami? I thought it was just graphics, i have them both though I've yet to get into the series, only an hour or two into zero
Kiwami 1 reuses a lot of stuff from previous games more than the series normally does,the upgrade system is pretty tedious. Kiwami 2 has every problem 6 has and cut content from the original. I think the best way to experience the first two games is the Japanese only remaster of the first two on PS3.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
While I don't agree with anything you say about SMW, I am torn between picking SMB3 or SMW. To me they're both masterpieces and two of the best games ever created, true innovation and perfection.

Many of Nintendo's best SNES games were just a rehash of NES games (Metroid, Castlevania, Mario, Zelda) but it worked out brilliantly.
See, I don't think Link to the Past was a rehash. That game did a ton of new stuff that Zelda didn't, it was a way better game that innovated and built on what was done before. Same those games looked beautiful.

SMW looked like the pixel artists weren't even talking to each other. Mario himself looks all weird and fucked up. I really think SMW is one of the worst 2D Marios, especially in the context of when it was released, going up against new competition and releasing just a year after SMB3 in the US, it was just so far short of the mark of where it needed.tl be.
 
See, I don't think Link to the Past was a rehash. That game did a ton of new stuff that Zelda didn't, it was a way better game that innovated and built on what was done before. Same those games looked beautiful.

SMW looked like the pixel artists weren't even talking to each other. Mario himself looks all weird and fucked up. I really think SMW is one of the worst 2D Marios, especially in the context of when it was released, going up against new competition and releasing just a year after SMB3 in the US, it was just so far short of the mark of where it needed.tl be.
Each to his own! Everything you said about Zelda, I would say about SMW as well. Also I think rehash was a bit harsh, all games I mentioned brought tons of new ideas and stuff to the table, but they all built on the solid grounds of the NES games before them.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Each to his own! Everything you said about Zelda, I would say about SMW as well. Also I think rehash was a bit harsh, all games I mentioned brought tons of new ideas and stuff to the table, but they all built on the solid grounds of the NES games before them.
I'm not saying SMW didn't have ANY new idea, but the ideas it had were bad and dropped from the series afterward for good reason. Other than, like, the map screen (which, fine, was a neat evolution of the SMB3 one). There's a reason we aren't doing the spin jump or getting the cape in New Super Mario Bros 5 or whatever.

I'm not calling it an outright bad game, but it was a mis-step. Maybe not quite a Final Fantasy II, but a Mega Man 7, if you will.
 
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AJUMP23

Gold Member
Mega Man 2 is the best mega man. The other ones are all good, but it was at its Zenith on 2.

Madden Football peaked a long time ago, it has been pretty awful in recent years. I need college football to return as a game, but I am worried if they are using the current Madden engine.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Halo Peaked at 3. Not much of Reach fan myself but I understand the love.

Tony Hawk Peaked at 4. Project 8 had some good moment along with THUG but never reached the same highs.

Sonic Peaked at Sonic 3.

Mega Man X peaked at X4.

Gears 3 won't be surpassed imo. Its really that good of a Gears game.

Killzone peaked at 1.
 
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Bombolone

Gold Member
Metal Gear Solid 1 (really MGS2), and it will forever hurt my soul.

I ignore 3 - 5. So with comparing 1 and 2. Series peaked at 1.

However 3 - 5 do exist, so I would say the series peaked at MGS2 because I think the game is fantastic in what it did.
Would have been great to have a MGS 3 returning to a fleshed out techno/thriller as badass, competent Solid Snake.

In the age of Remakes/Reboots I still keep my fingers crossed.

Edit.

GTAIV as well.
GTA V is no doubt, better made. Nicer graphics, QoL decisions (most) and other technical feats. The focus on GTAO ($$) and rigidness of the entire package, makes it a less enjoyable game for me.
 
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Robochobo

Member
Star Wars games peaked at KotoR II and Battlefront 2. Everything after never felt the same. Search your feelings for you know it to be true.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Ocarina of Time, got Zelda out of 2D, could get away with being called an open world game (Hyrule field) already showed rpg elements (hearts, potions, tunics etc.) in the 90s and somehow Nintendo shows new stuff every generation (WindWaker GameCube, Skyward Sword and the Wii etc.) there’s familiarity with new Zelda games and Ocarina of Time more than people think.
 

Tschumi

Member
Need for speed hot pursuit 2 is my goat. zero gimmicks, just old school, great cars, tracks, pretty ageless graphics, awesome music. That was, what, 2003? Ish? So yeah nothing since.
 
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Tschumi

Member
A word on far cry, yes for me i am likely never to change my mind that fc2 is the peak... Why? Because it made me think. It made me think about sneaking, made me think about ammo, made me think about odds going in to fire fights, made me weigh up direct travel against indirect bus routes... Made me think about how fucked up war economies are.. what did fcc3, etc, make me think of? How formulaic the tower system and crafting is, how bland the worlds are.

... Probably an age thing, might feel differently if i be was 5-10 years younger.
 
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