Support NeoGAF

[IntentionalPun]

Bottom line is:

If the XSX can't output the graphics showed in that middling presentation they have much bigger problems than bad marketing lol

I would hope the XSX can do far more than that shit.. I mean Scorn itself IIRC barely looked like a game at this point.

But considering the above statements, I doubt we saw PC footage because the XSX isn't capable of what was shown.

 

[pawel86ck]

It's not too far but they didn't mention that it's running on PC or other device.

Are you sure? 2080ti is 13.4 TF only on paper, and in reality it's 16 TF out of the box thanks to GPU boost, and up to 18 TF when OC'ed. I have seen benchmarks where 2080ti has literally demolished 5700XT and I dont believe XSX can do the same.

 

[CurtBizzy]

A 2080 Ti is capable of 60 fps vs Xbox Series X 30 fps

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You are sure? 2080ti is 13.4 TF only on paper, and in reality it's 16 TF out of the box thanks to GPU boost, and up to 18 TF when OC'ed. I have seen benchmarks where 2080ti has literally demolished 5700XT and I dont believe XSX can do the same.

Of course I'm talking about base. The comparison between the two was pretty close, with 2080Ti being a bit sharper on some details, must watch it on 4K screen to identify the difference:





If that youtuber could be trusted though.

 

[IntentionalPun]

A 2080 Ti is capable of 60 fps vs Xbox Series X 30 fps

Well.. that could be because the XSX ray tracing sucks compared to RTX.

I don't think Scorn or any game shown was using ray tracing.

Either way.. nothing shown in the MS Video would REQUIRE a 2080TI... it all looked like shit that would run on a 2060 at high framerates...

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The flops are irrelevant comparing AMD to nVidia. You won't get like for like performance considering that they use different architectures.

And consoles in a set custom environment to PC.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Of course I'm talking about base. The comparison between the two was pretty close, with 2080Ti being a bit sharper on some details, must watch it on 4K screen to identify the difference:





If that youtuber could be trusted though.

XSX looks better

 

[DeepEnigma]

Look at the fine print; was pasted on most of the games shown.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

As per usual. Then when the games actually release on consoles the 'downgrade' outrage begins. Common sense: you aren't getting the performance of a 1300 dollar GPU in a 500 dollar box. That people fall for this every single time is just amazing.

 

[IntentionalPun]

As per usual. Then when the games actually release on consoles the 'downgrade' outrage begins. Common sense: you aren't getting the performance of a 1300 dollar GPU in a 500 dollar box. That people fall for this every single time is just amazing.

Yeah we definitely aren't...

.. but what game in that video appeared to require a $1300 GPU? lol

 

[DeepEnigma]

As per usual. Then when the games actually release on consoles the 'downgrade' outrage begins. Common sense: you aren't getting the performance of a 1300 dollar GPU in a 500 dollar box. That people fall for this every single time is just amazing.

Let's be honest. It's only $1300 because nVidia says so.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Let's be honest. It's only $1300 because nVidia says so.

Call it 1000, then. My point is the same.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Anyone with a brain would think it was running on early dev-kit, with all due respect:

"Game and console in development; in-engine footage representative of expected Xbox Series X visual quality".

Just like the UE5 demo was running on a PS5 dev-kit not the final console. Does that makes me deceived? I can't see it that way.

That is a rather ambiguous statement. The only thing clearly transparent was the font.

Call it 1000, then. My point is the same.

I still think they price them almost 2.5 to 3 times what they can still profit off of, because the market will pay for it.

The crypto tax never dropped, they only added upon it. But I get what you are saying.

 

[pawel86ck]

Of course I'm talking about base. The comparison between the two was pretty close, with 2080Ti being a bit sharper on some details:





If that youtuber could be trusted.

It depends on the game, but 59% difference in 4K is really big IMO and I doubt XSX would be able to close the gap without some downgrades.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

Let's be honest. It's only $1300 because nVidia says so.

It's so expensive because every generation they test out what they can get away with and people LOVE when others are excluded from buying a bigger dick. So the trend upwarts continues.

Few generations ago you bought the medium market card für 300 bucks. We're somewhere around 550 now I think.
But that's a hate topic for another thread

 

[RespawnX]

RDNA 1 is nowhere near close Turing architecture, let alone RDNA 2. Just compare Minecraft RT on PC and XSX. PC version is far more complex and also it sustained higher fps count. XSX version is quite the opposite.
Despite AMDs 7nm vs NVIDIAs 14nm, Turing is still more energy-efficient and architecture is simply better on Nvidia. AMD with RDNA 2 somehow got close, but that's not enough.

Ampere will just butcher RDNA 2 soon.

Took me less than five minutes to figure out, that RX 5700 XT has around 9.75 tflops and RTX 2080 around 10,1 tflops. As we only have tflops from XsX to compare, we compare them. RX 5700 XT has basicly the same fps per flop ratio as RTX 2080 (RTX is a bit better). We know that RDNA 2.0 is going to have 10%> IPC gains and XsX has 12 tflops with 52 CUs and they scale better than the clock performance (at least for RDNA 1.0). Basic maths and some approximation and you get around RTX 2080 Ti performance. Comparing evolving engines like BF V, Metro Exodus and not stone age games like GTA V. Of course, if you take into account energy efficiency Turing has still an advantage but not that big. We will see the real gains of 7nm on Nvidia side with Ampere but the leaks are pointing to far higher Tensor core count and only "slight" (20-30%) better shader rendering performance.

So why are we discussing things we know since half a year? Did you miss the whole XsX discussion or are you pissed off because at the end of the year you can buy a console with today's high-end performance for the price of today's mid-range GPU?

 

[Deleted member 471617]

No issues as all third party games end up being shown on high end power PC's. So not really a surprise. As long as the game itself is good and runs great when it releases day one on Xbox Series X, I'll be a happy camper as that increases the chances of me giving the game a chance.

 

[Ascend]

Ahh so you’re saying that it’s okay to show how games will run on a future AMD GPU by using Nvidias current best GPU.

That AMD secret sauce is coming... eventually!

Spoiler

or you can just get the Nvidia GPU right now

What's the problem if it's equivalent performance? I'm not interested in GPU brand wars with you.

5700 XT game clock = 1755 MHz
XSX GPU clock = 1825 MHz
Slight advantage for XSX

5700 XT = 40 CUs
XSX GPU = 52 CUs
XSX has 30% advantage here.

2080 Ti is about 40% faster than a 5700XT at 4K. So... The slightly higher clock, the additional CUs, the potential IPC increase plus console optimization will clearly put it close to a 2080 Ti. If you can't believe that, that's your problem.

 

[Verchod]

And yet it was still a terrible trailer.

Power isn't everything

 

[Stuart360]

And yet it was still a terrible trailer.

Power isn't everything

Eh?, it was an amazing trailer, so different, so crazy looking.
It wasnt another Fortnite or COD, if thats your problem.

 

[Seko]

RDNA 1 is nowhere near close Turing architecture, let alone RDNA 2. Just compare Minecraft RT on PC and XSX. PC version is far more complex and also it sustained higher fps count. XSX version is quite the opposite.
Despite AMDs 7nm vs NVIDIAs 14nm, Turing is still more energy-efficient and architecture is simply better on Nvidia. AMD with RDNA 2 somehow got close, but that's not enough.

Ampere will just butcher RDNA 2 soon.

AMD Radeon RX 5700 und RX 5700 XT im Test: Architektur-Vergleich, Preis-Leistung, Custom Designs (Update)

AMD Radeon RX 5700 (XT) im Test: Architektur-Vergleich, Preis-Leistung, Custom Designs (Update) / Navi vs. Vega vs. Turing vs. Pascal

www.computerbase.de

Here is a comparison between Navi(RDNA 1) and Turing. Its in german but with the chart it should be still understandable.

 

[Ascend]

A 2080 Ti is capable of 60 fps vs Xbox Series X 30 fps

DLSS is effectively rendering the game at a lower resolution and using ML to make it look native. Impressive tech, but not useful for comparing GPU performance in a fair manner. Although I do agree that it doesn't matter if you can't tell the difference in the end, you can't use this to say that the XSX GPU is not as powerful as a 2080 Ti.

But that's not even what I'm worried about. I didn't watch the whole video, but I don't think the 2080Ti used DLSS there. But what does matter for a direct comparison is what settings where used, amount of light bounces being the most important, in addition to the render distance. Without those details, the comparison is faulty.

 

[Ascend]

RDNA 1 is nowhere near close Turing architecture, let alone RDNA 2. Just compare Minecraft RT on PC and XSX. PC version is far more complex and also it sustained higher fps count. XSX version is quite the opposite.
Despite AMDs 7nm vs NVIDIAs 14nm, Turing is still more energy-efficient and architecture is simply better on Nvidia. AMD with RDNA 2 somehow got close, but that's not enough.

Ampere will just butcher RDNA 2 soon.

Oh. We got one of those people... Energy efficient blah blah. Just a blind nVidia follower. After this post putting you in your place you'll be put on ignore. Sorry (not sorry) to burst your bubble.

Navi IPC is comparable to Turing and that is a fact. Computerbase.de did a test comparing Navi and Turing. On average, Navi was 1% faster.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Bait thread backfired.

Regardless of what or how it runs, 8k/120fps even. It still looks bland and uninspired.

 

[jimbojim]

Took me less than five minutes to figure out, that RX 5700 XT has around 9.75 tflops and RTX 2080 around 10,1 tflops. As we only have tflops from XsX to compare, we compare them. RX 5700 XT has basicly the same fps per flop ratio as RTX 2080 (RTX is a bit better). We know that RDNA 2.0 is going to have 10%> IPC gains and XsX has 12 tflops with 52 CUs and they scale better than the clock performance (at least for RDNA 1.0). Basic maths and some approximation and you get around RTX 2080 Ti performance. Comparing evolving engines like BF V, Metro Exodus and not stone age games like GTA V. Of course, if you take into account energy efficiency Turing has still an advantage but not that big. We will see the real gains of 7nm on Nvidia side with Ampere but the leaks are pointing to far higher Tensor core count and only "slight" (20-30%) better shader rendering performance.

So why are we discussing things we know since half a year? Did you miss the whole XsX discussion or are you pissed off because at the end of the year you can buy a console with today's high-end performance for the price of today's mid-range GPU?

Pissed? Lol. Even here Xbox fans trying to spread FUD how XSX is on par with 2080 Ti RTX. Guess what, it's not.

 

[jimbojim]

Oh. We got one of those people... Energy efficient blah blah. Just a blind nVidia follower. After this post putting you in your place you'll be put on ignore. Sorry (not sorry) to burst your bubble.

Navi IPC is comparable to Turing and that is a fact. Computerbase.de did a test comparing Navi and Turing. On average, Navi was 1% faster.

Putting me on ignore list yet you spew this crap

The XSX GPU is not too far off from a 2080 Ti, so...

Guess what, it's not close in any single way. Difference between XSX 12 TF and RTX 2080ti 13.45. ( without OC ) is far bigger than differenfece between PS5 and XSX.
But you can put me on ignore list.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I can't fuckin' wait until FUD isn't the buzzword of the month anymore.

Xbox fans trying to spread FUD how XSX is on par with 2080 Ti RTX

Who said that?

 

[Stuart360]

Just for clarification, that screenshot makes it look like the text is faded and hard to see, due to the Youtube bar covering it. Its perfectly bright and clear in the actual trailer though.

 

[jimbojim]

I can't fuckin' wait until FUD isn't the buzzword of the month anymore.



Who said that?

How about post above

 

[Hendrick's]

But the 2080Ti is 13.4TF base clock? Shouldn't be 2080 Super that matches it?

They need to account for some secret sauce.

 

[jimbojim]

A 2080 Ti is capable of 60 fps vs Xbox Series X 30 fps

There is a difference in complexity in tech demo between XSX version and PC version. PC version is far more complex

 

[AGRacing]

But the 2080Ti is 13.4TF base clock? Shouldn't be 2080 Super that matches it?

After a year of ridiculous assertions about teraflops in the next generation speculation thread..... and GCN, RDNA1 & 2.... I honestly can't believe this is a real question.

12 TF XSX performance is not measurable against One X 6TF or Nvidia 13TF or anything else that isn't RDNA2 or whatever the architecture of the Series X ends up actually being.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Lmao

 

[Trueblakjedi]

A 2080 Ti is capable of 60 fps vs Xbox Series X 30 fps

With DLSS. Without DLSS it was in the 20s...

 

[Rikkori]

It's not out of the question that games on XSX will rival the performance of a 2080 ti desktop, especially as the years roll by and more & more optimisations are done around RDNA by developers, which they obviously will since those are the major platforms for the next 7+ years. I mean, let's face it, Nvidia abandons their GPUs as soon as new ones are out in terms of further driver optimisations, and for Turing that's gonna happen before the new consoles are even out, even if only by a few months. No different than what happened with GCN vs Kepler/Maxwell/Pascal. This will be more obvious in some games & engines than others, as is tradition.

Where PC will really flex its muscles will be more advanced ray tracing & overall performance if DLSS is further adopted. But obviously we're still early for all that. Overall though, I don't think XSX Scorn players will experience something meaningfully worse than a 2080 ti PC gamer.

 

[CurtBizzy]

With DLSS. Without DLSS it was in the 20s...

Timestamp ?

 

[Senua]

Why do people talk about 2080ti base clock tflops when comparing to console gpus. Oh I know why.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

PCs are xbox too!

 

[RaySoft]

I'm qute certain Sony was ahead starting this next-gen, but MS came out first gun-slingin' & confident, so they succeeded to change the meta..
But now it seems like they jumped the gun a bit? Let's see if MS can even follow Sony after 4 june;-)

Edit: Im just questioning MS' PR push. I have no doubt that XSX will run this game at least as well as an 2080

 

[RaySoft]

A 2080 Ti is capable of 60 fps vs Xbox Series X 30 fps

Just because you may be slower in eating your breakfast, doesn't mean you can't be faster in anything else...
None of the consoles will be better at RT. This is AMD's first rendition of it. Cerny actually "said it" between the lines in the Wierd interview.. something of the lines of.. "Yes it can do RT, but we're not focusing on that" Can you say it more clearly?
It's MS that has been hyping up RT, let's see if they can deliver...

 

[DrScissorsMD]

Do you have no shame. Blatant bait post to at best get some tiny slight in against MS, from one of the biggest fanboys on this forum no less. Or to draw in equally terrible warring posts for you to flame-react...

I'm qute certain Sony was ahead starting this next-gen, but MS came out first gun-slingin' & confident, so they succeeded to change the meta..
But now it seems like they jumped the gun a bit? Let's see if MS can even follow Sony after 4 june;-)

Edit: Im just questioning MS' PR push. I have no doubt that XSX will run this game at least as well as an 2080

I rest my case. You are genuinely pathetic and I feel sorry for you.

 

[RaySoft]

Do you have no shame. Blatant bait post to at best get some tiny slight in against MS, from one of the biggest fanboys on this forum no less. Or to draw in equally terrible warring posts for you to flame-react...

I rest my case. You are genuinely pathetic and I feel sorry for you.

Why have't they showed any games then? All they've showed has been PC games..

Edit: I'll answer it for you: Because they weren't ready! But "as typical americans." they sold the skin before the bear was shot.

 

[SleepDoctor]

I can't fuckin' wait until FUD isn't the buzzword of the month anymore.



Who said that?

Im sure he wasn't this outraged when one genius said Ps5 with rt run like a 3080. But double standards lol

 

[CatLady]

Why have't they showed any games then? All they've showed has been PC games..

They've shown a hell of lot more than Sony has.

You got a logo and a controller is all Sony shown in all this time. You still haven't even seen the damn console let alone games. 3rd parties have shown a couple of very meh last gen or worse looking games and an engine tech demo. Have you been as concerned about Sony's utter lack of reveals and communication up to this point?

 

[RaySoft]

They've shown a hell of lot more than Sony has.

You got a logo and a controller is all Sony shown in all this time. You still haven't even seen the damn console let alone games. 3rd parties have shown a couple of very meh last gen or worse looking games and an engine tech demo. Have you been as concerned about Sony's utter lack of reveals and communication up to this point?

We''ll talk 4 june when the tables have turned.
They won't show the console, but at least all the games are running on a PS5 and it will show. SSD Yo!

 

[CatLady]

We''ll talk 4 june when the tables have turned.
They won't show the console, but at least all the games are running on a PS5 and it will show

So you're in here complaining Xbox hasn't shown enough, when you obviously aren't interested in an Xbox in the first place, but you're perfectly fine that Sony hasn't shown shit up to this point. So pretty much you're just here to console war then, right?

 

[RaySoft]

So you're in here complaining Xbox hasn't shown enough, when you obviously aren't interested in an Xbox in the first place, but you're perfectly fine that Sony hasn't shown shit up to this point. So pretty much you're just here to console war then, right?

I just stated my oppinion that I think MS came out prematurely. Then I got attacked (ofc) and stated my case.
This news (about Scorn running on PC) just made it more obvious.
That would be a serious discussion actually, but I guess it's not relevant?

 

[DrScissorsMD]

Why have't they showed any games then? All they've showed has been PC games..

Edit: I'll answer it for you: Because they weren't ready! But "as typical americans." they sold the skin before the bear was shot.

You, uh, realise the only game Sony has shown is also coming to PC?

 

[RaySoft]

You, uh, realise the only game Sony has shown is also coming to PC?

What game? Godfall?
My point was that Sony will be showing off PS5 games on the 4 of june, and they won't be labeled "IN-ENGINE FOOTAGE REPRESENTATIVE OF EXPECTED PS5 VISUAL QUALITY"

 

[DrScissorsMD]

What game?

So you don't even know what they've shown, that bodes well.

Godfall.