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[LiveFromKyoto]

So Go was ill judged. But again, I don't think it was because the business model of selling premium games over the network failed. If there's a market for premium portable games - and it seems there is - their success via network distribution on desirable network orientated devices shouldn't be unreasonable.

That's exactly it - Sony was their own worst competition with the Go. Everybody looked at it and decided it was a worse value proposition than their existing machine. Selling downloadable games obviously works, they just have to decide how it fits into their model. Hopefully they don't go the cheapo $5 game route as their main portable business.

 

[charlequin]

Go failed, not because the business model of selling premium games over the air is unsound (IMO), but because it was simply a undesirable offering on a number of fronts.

Sure, but it was an undesirable offering on a number of fronts because Sony either failed to understand what was necessary for such a task or just chose to punt rather than address the hard challenges inherent in doing so (or both.)

Again, not to say that it's impossible for them to do better in the future, absolutely, but it's not a promising note to start off from. At very least, it gives me pause because even as they've completely reinvented their PS3 business I haven't seen Sony actually do anything that demonstrates they've yet learned from the mistakes made in their PSP business.

They may do better working together on that vs Apple than either would alone.

Right. Like I said, Sony might potentially make sense as a partner (in the right scenario), I just think that a partnership predicated on selling big games is completely doomed to failure.

The thing's sold millions WW and has been huge in Asia recently. It's a very successful platform overall.

PSP as a retail platform is moderately successful. PSP as a download platform is dramatically less so.

 

[DrXym]

An android powered phone / gaming device is an obvious and desirable direction to take. You get all the social / smart phone functionality for very little effort. They just have to ensure they don't cripple the android part in the process by slathering all of the device with DRM.

 

[Medalion]

Sony will crush the competition, just you watch!

Nintendo, and Apple, watch yer anus!

 

[Future]

Terrible idea. 99% of Android gaming titles wouldnt support it. Sony would never price in-house titles for success. Market would get even more fragmented if the rumored PSP2 is true (unless this is it??)

I wish I could be in a Sony meeting one day just to see how crap like this gets greenlighted

 

[Agent X]

What I'm disagreeing with is the idea that there's anything remotely worthwhile about the idea of trying to outcompete Apple by teaming with Sony to sell $40 games on a phone.

They don't have to sell $40 games on a phone. They can sell $5 or $6 games as well.

Think of what they've been doing with PS1 classics and Minis lately. Between these two categories, they have a large number of games priced between $1 and $10, encompassing proven hits from the past (PS1 classics, and a handful of Minis) as well as new developments from young upstart developers (many other Minis).

The nice thing is if someone wants to pay more to get a full-scale "premium" game, then they can do that as well. It's not about a singular strategy, saying "only $3 games are good" or "only $40 games are good". By teaming with Sony, they'd have instant access to both markets, as well as a lot that resides in between.

 

[leroidys]

I basically always just want to keep a crappy phone for my phone, and game systems separate. At least until they have week long batteries for smart phones. I would personally be more interested in an android pspad.

 

[gofreak]

I haven't seen Sony actually do anything that demonstrates they've yet learned from the mistakes made in their PSP business.

I wouldn't have expected to see that so soon. Their next move, their next generation whatever form it takes will probably be the first proper opportunity to assess what they've learned or not.

A move in this sort of direction, depending on the details, would suggest they've learned quite a lot though IMO.

Right. Like I said, Sony might potentially make sense as a partner (in the right scenario), I just think that a partnership predicated on selling big games is completely doomed to failure.

I don't think such a partnership would be solely predicated on that, but I disagree with the general suggestion about that content in this context. Assuming this end of the market is a going concern in general, at least. If it is a going concern, if it can stand up to competition from 'small games', and if there is an increasing overlap between the market for those games and the people buying these smart devices, then I think it's logical for these devices, their platforms, to sooner or later seek to carry that content.

 

[H_Prestige]

I basically always just want to keep a crappy phone for my phone, and game systems separate. At least until they have week long batteries for smart phones. I would personally be more interested in an android pspad.

A psp2 running android os that was a focused portable gaming console, with ps1/ps2/psp software emulation, online gaming, solid controls with dual analog sticks, impressive high resolution graphics, OLED display, strong media capabilities, and a slick multitouch internet browser is something the older management would have done. But the guys running the show now will just make another half baked, non-sensical product like the "psp shoved into a SE smartphone that won't even play actual psp games and will require a cellular contract" thing described in the OP that will ultimately appeal to about 12 people. Just like they did with the psp go.

 

[painful fart]

They don't have to sell $40 games on a phone. They can sell $5 or $6 games as well.

Think of what they've been doing with PS1 classics and Minis lately. Between these two categories, they have a large number of games priced between $1 and $10, encompassing proven hits from the past (PS1 classics, and a handful of Minis) as well as new developments from young upstart developers (many other Minis).

The nice thing is if someone wants to pay more to get a full-scale "premium" game, then they can do that as well. It's not about a singular strategy, saying "only $3 games are good" or "only $40 games are good". By teaming with Sony, they'd have instant access to both markets, as well as a lot that resides in between.

Exactly, if Sony can sell games for $40 through dlc good for them. It will give some crazy margins compared to selling disc-based games for $40 through retail.

 

[Moor-Angol]

A psp2 running android os that was a focused portable gaming console, with ps1/ps2/psp software emulation, online gaming, solid controls with dual analog sticks, impressive high resolution graphics, OLED display, strong media capabilities, and a slick multitouch internet browser is something the older management would have done.

cool, an handheld which i have to charge after 1 hour of playing :lol

 

[Bojanglez]

I just hope the Sony Ericsson team don't forget about Playstation Network, it would be a disaster if this didn't let you play minis, PSP games and movies you buy off PSN. Also new games need trophies and the OS needs PSN messaging and chat (would be nice to have PSN app for for all Android devices), but I have a feeling they won't do any of this.

 

[Truespeed]

Then why does it exist? Android already plays games, what do they need Sony involvement for?

I think it has to be designed to leverage Sony's online catalogue or it's utterly pointless.

So Sony Ericsson can sell more phones? Sony is an established and respected game developer with a large game library and a wealth of talent. To differentiate their handset from the other Android handsets they could bolt on their own game SDK to Android so only their platform could run these Sony games. As for leveraging their existing PSP online catalog - I really don't see how it will ever be PSP compatible, unless of course, they want to port all of their online PSP games to ARM.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I find it hard to believe they would use Snapdragon, the GPU in that thing is horrendous. All the latest Android phones and iPhone 4 use something with PowerVR SGX 500 series GPUs, that's what Carmack used to run Rage on iPhone 4.

 

[JWong]

I find it hard to believe they would use Snapdragon, the GPU in that thing is horrendous. All the latest Android phones and iPhone 4 use something with PowerVR SGX 500 series GPUs, that's what Carmack used to run Rage on iPhone 4.

Er a lot of phones use snapdragon.

Nexus One for example.

 

[Truespeed]

...if it's not, and if there's really no specific hardware requirement beyond 'ordinary android' requirements, that would suggest an even more radical departure for Sony. If there's no 'new' Playstation-specific requirements of the hardware, that'd essentially mean they were simply embracing an open platform as theirs, bringing their brand to it, but not owning it in the total way they are used to. Even for me, that seems way out there...I know Sony's new favourite word of late has been 'open', but it would be very radical change to their business.

edit - one thing I think runs against this rumour is the timing. It was only a few months ago Google TV was announced, and the broader strategic alliance was announced with it, and while its possible Sony and Google have been talking for a much longer time prior to that, if they weren't, a few months seems a really short time to whip up an agreement about a marrying Playstation to Android (in the official, Google-endorsed, core platform sense as opposed to the one-off Sony-specific hybrid device sense). When GoogleTV was launched, Eric Schmidt and Howard Stringer were asked about Playstation, and they kind of just laughed and Stringer said 'one device at a time'. I took him to be saying that almost to Schmidt rather than the reporter, suggesting nothing like this was on the table then.

Haven't they already embraced Android with their Xperia XP10 phone? Is there a really need to put PlayStation specific hardware into the unit? Perhaps, as it would differentiate the phone by allowing it to play games the other Android phones couldn't, but would Google even allow that? The hardware requirements for Gingerbread are pretty high so I'm not sure Sony needs to include PlayStation hardware into the unit. As I said in my earlier message, maybe a proprietary PlayStation SDK is all they need. The hardware should also be more than capable of handling PSP quality games so all they would really need to do is port their popular ones over. But, one thing that really differentiates this unit from the others are the controls. Not all games work well with touch controls, in fact, a lot of games are compromised by these silly on screen controls. The presence of a phone with a physical control slider would not only differentiate this phone from the other handsets, but make it the preferred handset for playing games on.

 

[Truespeed]

I carry a Droid and a iPhone 3GS every day (don't ask). There really isn't any game on Android. There is Age of Conquest, a board game. That's pretty much it.

Seriously? No Android games? Right. All you need to do is YouTube "Android games". And yes, there's quite a lot of them.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

So Sony Ericsson can sell more phones? Sony is an established and respected game developer with a large game library and a wealth of talent. To differentiate their handset from the other Android handsets they could bolt on their own game SDK to Android so only their platform could run these Sony games. As for leveraging their existing PSP online catalog - I really don't see how it will ever be PSP compatible, unless of course, they want to port all of their online PSP games to ARM.

So they'd be starting from scratch building a whole separate platform that doesn't leverage any existing software? Sounds more expensive and frustrating than just keeping their existing EE plants going and slapping them in phones. They'd be starting from zero and spreading themselves kind of thin.

You might be right, nobody's reported otherwise, it just sounds a lot dumber to me than squeezing money out of all the work they've already put into PSP, which is very competitive with what iPhone is offering and would find a ton of 3rd parties willing to grab another market for software they've already made.

 

[paskowitz]

There is only one way this can work:

-VERIZON ONLY! (F AT&T and the rest of the US's crap carriers, The Big Red may be expensive but I'll be damned if I ever go back to AT&T)
-The phone is Sony branded (SE=meh)
-The costs for third parties to make games is VERY small (maybe scaled to the size of the game. Small games = "free" licensing)
-Smaller phone-esk games work an ALL android devices
-Its actually a good phone and does modern day phone stuff very well
-Its actually a good handheld gaming system and has compelling games (MGS, GOW, GT, etc).
-Competitive price to the iPhone and the cost of a 3DS+Android phone
-PSP games can be ported over (PSP classics)
-Just the right size (not too big, not too small, just right)
-Android apps only (no BS Sony PSP apps, phone specific apps sure, just under one structure)
-touch screen (all the cool kids are doing these days)
-Lastly, keep it simple (this takes a clear vision of the product and its services, something the PSPGO FAILED horribly at) PSP gaming experience + Android phone experience = one product.

Sony HAS to work with Google in making sure this does not become a convoluted jumbled mess. People must see what they think of each respective company in the product.

Sony:
-media
-movies
-music
-games
-quality
-performance

Android/Google
-simplicity
-openness
-value
-easy of use
-connection

If Sony wants a special store separate from the Android market fine, but keep the Android stuff out of the PSP2 PSstore. If Sony wants separate PSP2 only games fine, but make sure there is a significant difference between Android games.

This is were Sony can really make up for the PSPGO. The Android consumer is the TRUE digital consumer. Its what they know. Thus digital games would fit right in. But those digital games wouldn't just be the game, you would get a file for the manual and the box art to give customers that familiar sense of owning a product.

 

[Lazy8s]

Snapdragon's mini-Xenos GPU isn't especially bad; it's just not a PowerVR, the standard by which every other GPU in the history of the industry has underperformed for a given cost.

Also, ARM isn't a necessity for PSP2; MIPS can be competitive and has already been paired with PowerVR.

 

[darkwing]

this will fail if it doesnt run PSP games

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Yeah, there's almost no chance Verizon would be getting this.

 

[max-pain]

Er a lot of phones use snapdragon.

Nexus One for example.

And that is much slower than the PowerVR SGX540 in the Hummingbird SoC

 

[Shanadeus]

Looks like Nintendo won the next portable console war.

 

[gofreak]

Haven't they already embraced Android with their Xperia XP10 phone? Is there a really need to put PlayStation specific hardware into the unit?

I think if a portable Playstation platform were going to be embedded into Android somehow, there's two possibilities*

1) it's a software thing, and runs on ordinary Android spec, as per the rest of your post

2) it has some of its own additional hardware specifications, making it less standard, more proprietary

Both of these approaches have different tradeoffs. My initial reaction is that Sony would probably like to have some Playstation specific bits of hardware in there so they have some greater level of continuing ownership over their platform within Android. It would also allow seamless PSP compatibility (which the article seemed to suggest, but I acknowledge that talk of 'recent PSP games' could refer as much to ports of those games as PSP executables).

It depends though. If it were a scenario where all Android gaming was going to be part of this new platform, and Sony was going to be making money on all of it anyway, there'd be less need to mark Sony's interest in the platform out with distinctive hardware capability vs 'ordinary Android'. That approach though, whatever about its desirability or technical possibility would be more radical. It would be a much bigger departure from their previous position with pretty far reaching ramifications...if one had suggested it even a few months ago it would have been widely laughed at as impossible, in fact I think the suggestion still seems far fetched to many.

* well, actually, there's a whole heap of possible implementations, which is why speculating about this is difficult. But those are two broad categories I guess.

 

[sun-drop]

i just wish sony would release an andriod app for remote play already ..i mean COME ON.

 

[zoku88]

Snapdragon's mini-Xenos GPU isn't especially bad; it's just not a PowerVR, the standard by which every other GPU in the history of the industry has underperformed for a given cost.

Also, ARM isn't a necessity for PSP2; MIPS can be competitive and has already been paired with PowerVR.

I think mips would be worse for a cellphone because of increased power requirements. (i think) arm is really power efficient.

Mips is usually used for embedded devices, not usually things that run on battery.

 

[longdi]

This idea is good and a natural continuation of PSP, which was the first powerful gaming/media on the go portable. Sony has no choice, its either a kiddy portable to compete with 3DS or a multimedia smart phone.

Sony has been very active with Google in their TV, and Intel...but the snapdragon is a very poor gaming cpu, coming at half the fps of Galaxy S in benchmarks, i hope they dont use snapdragon. Xperia X10 is also one of the lower ranked Android phone, coming out with poor benchmark scores, can say SE is quite lousy on the Android front so far.

BUT this is Sony, probably SE side make this Andriod gaming phone and SCE side comes out with PSP2 using a completely different OS and compatibility, and the usual shit will clash, confuse and collapse!

This is just the hardware, the games, making Android PSPhone with DLC, will we get big budget games like MGS5 is another question! 3DS will win the developer support imo.

 

[Nemo]

It's a smart move on Sony's part. I'd support this, would buy it day one too

Wonder how many redesigns they would make tho

 

[brain_stew]

A psp2 running android os that was a focused portable gaming console, with ps1/ps2/psp software emulation .

That's be literaly impossible.

 

[H_Prestige]

That's be literaly impossible.

So there is no mobile graphics technology out now or on the horizon capable of emulating both the psp and ps2? Bummer.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

That's be literaly impossible.

Not fully, the iPhone 4 (as described by Carmack) has the power to render PS2/XBOX like graphics, so we might not be too far off

 

[Lonely1]

So there is no mobile graphics technology out now or on the horizon capable of emulating both the psp and ps2? Bummer.

Mostly, the CPU is whats dragging. Phones still have problems emulating N64.

 

[yurinka]

I carry a Droid and a iPhone 3GS every day (don't ask). There really isn't any game on Android. There is Age of Conquest, a board game. That's pretty much it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LEjO9DGppo

 

[brain_stew]

Not fully, the iPhone 4 (as described by Carmack) has the power to render PS2/XBOX like graphics, so we might not be too far off

Yes, fully. Emulation is a completely different prospect, even the PS3 can't emulate the PS2.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Not fully, the iPhone 4 (as described by Carmack) has the power to render PS2/XBOX like graphics, so we might not be too far off

We are not talkin about rendering psp/ps2 like graphics but emulating that hardware.

 

[Raistlin]

So there is no mobile graphics technology out now or on the horizon capable of emulating both the psp and ps2? Bummer.

are you serious?

Not fully, the iPhone 4 (as described by Carmack) has the power to render PS2/XBOX like graphics, so we might not be too far off

emulation

 

[Byakuya769]

emulation being equated to the graphical fidelity of hw... smh.

ain't that simple.

 

[Mrbob]

Sony is going to have to blow me away with whatever portable digital device they offer next. After the disaster of the Go, I have no interest in any future portable from them if they are going to keep all the prices high and selection thin.

I'll deal with a high hardware price if the device packs the goods. But keeping software titles at MSRP and then not having all 3rd parties on board with digital releases is a joke.

 

[Truespeed]

So they'd be starting from scratch building a whole separate platform that doesn't leverage any existing software? Sounds more expensive and frustrating than just keeping their existing EE plants going and slapping them in phones. They'd be starting from zero and spreading themselves kind of thin.

You might be right, nobody's reported otherwise, it just sounds a lot dumber to me than squeezing money out of all the work they've already put into PSP, which is very competitive with what iPhone is offering and would find a ton of 3rd parties willing to grab another market for software they've already made.

Considering the form factor they need to adhere to, I can't really see them packing PSP hardware into a phone. It's a phone first and foremost. When you start compromising the most important aspect of the device then you've missed the mark.

 

[spwolf]

It's a phone first and foremost. When you start compromising the most important aspect of the device then you've missed the mark.

hey apple is doing well... iPhone was and still is, one of the worst phones ever :lol

 

[Truespeed]

I think if a portable Playstation platform were going to be embedded into Android somehow, there's two possibilities*

1) it's a software thing, and runs on ordinary Android spec, as per the rest of your post

2) it has some of its own additional hardware specifications, making it less standard, more proprietary

Both of these approaches have different tradeoffs. My initial reaction is that Sony would probably like to have some Playstation specific bits of hardware in there so they have some greater level of continuing ownership over their platform within Android. It would also allow seamless PSP compatibility (which the article seemed to suggest, but I acknowledge that talk of 'recent PSP games' could refer as much to ports of those games as PSP executables).

It depends though. If it were a scenario where all Android gaming was going to be part of this new platform, and Sony was going to be making money on all of it anyway, there'd be less need to mark Sony's interest in the platform out with distinctive hardware capability vs 'ordinary Android'. That approach though, whatever about its desirability or technical possibility would be more radical. It would be a much bigger departure from their previous position with pretty far reaching ramifications...if one had suggested it even a few months ago it would have been widely laughed at as impossible, in fact I think the suggestion still seems far fetched to many.

* well, actually, there's a whole heap of possible implementations, which is why speculating about this is difficult. But those are two broad categories I guess.

Google may have a problem with Sony proprietary hardware on an Android phone, unless of course the phone had 2 O/S's - Android 3.0 and the Sony Game O/S for their games. I don't really see the need for proprietary Sony hardware in a Gingerbread class smartphone as it will be more than capable of surpassing anything the PSP can do. The combination of a proprietary Sony Game O/S and physical game controls is all they really need to become the most capable phone for gaming. Hell, the game controls alone would solidify it.

 

[Crisis]

hey apple is doing well... iPhone was and still is, one of the worst phones ever :lol

 

[spwolf]

Google may have a problem with Sony proprietary hardware on an Android phone, unless of course the phone had 2 O/S's - Android 3.0 and the Sony Game O/S for their games. I don't really see the need for proprietary Sony hardware in a Gingerbread class smartphone as it will be more than capable of surpassing anything the PSP can do. The combination of a proprietary Sony Game O/S and physical game controls is all they really need to become the most capable phone for gaming. Hell, the game controls alone would solidify it.

is there a phone hardware that is not proprietary? I still see most people not having basic understanding of how open Android is... it is so open, you can close it. get it?

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Considering the form factor they need to adhere to, I can't really see them packing PSP hardware into a phone. It's a phone first and foremost. When you start compromising the most important aspect of the device then you've missed the mark.

Is the Go case really that far off current smart phones as to be unweildly?

PSPGO: 128 x 16.5 x 69 mm
iPhone 4: 115 × 11.6 x 61 mm

You're talking about around a centimeter or less in each direction, it's not that far off.

 

[brain_stew]

Sony is going to have to blow me away with whatever portable digital device they offer next. After the disaster of the Go, I have no interest in any future portable from them if they are going to keep all the prices high and selection thin.
.

Conversley, having owned a PSP Go is precisely why I'm interested in how this turns out.

They already have the hardware design nailed down, the Go's design would work great as a mobile with good gaming capabilities by the simple addition of a touchscreen.

Though please Sony, don't go with a Qualcomm GPU for a gaming focused device, that'd be completely backward. An SGX543MP2 @200mhz is the minimum bar for video hardware I'm setting before I become interested in anything like this, and that's a million miles away from the GPU you get in Qualcomm's SOCs. 512MB RAM and a ~800mhz+ dual core CortexA9 would be a good start as well.

Is the Go case really that far off current smart phones as to be unweildly?

PSPGO: 128 x 16.5 x 69 mm
iPhone 4: 115 × 11.6 x 61 mm

You're talking about around a centimeter or less in each direction, it's not that far off.

I've compared it directly to an Iphone in person and basically the Go is just a slightly fatter version of the Iphone. The current form factor is fine.

 

[Truespeed]

is there a phone hardware that is not proprietary? I still see most people not having basic understanding of how open Android is... it is so open, you can close it. get it?

Got it. Trouble is most people don't have the basic understanding of the importance of proprietary Google apps and access to the Android market place should Google deem your device unworthy or not aligned with its vision for Android. And an Android phone with no Google Apps or marketplace access is a very sad Android device,

 

[Truespeed]

Is the Go case really that far off current smart phones as to be unweildly?

PSPGO: 128 x 16.5 x 69 mm
iPhone 4: 115 × 11.6 x 61 mm

You're talking about around a centimeter or less in each direction, it's not that far off.

And how much would the PSPGO form factor expand once you start adding all of the smartphone electronics?

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

And how much would the PSPGO form factor expand once you start adding all of the smartphone electronics?

There's no reason the existing CPU can't handle all the processing requirements, it already has onboard memory, and it already has built in speakers and mic - it would just be a case of rearranging those (you'd likely want different components, granted).

Really it's just the antenna that's needed, but it's not as though it would be impossible to find room for that.

 

[Truespeed]

There's no reason the existing CPU can't handle all the processing requirements, it already has onboard memory, and it already has built in speakers and mic - it would just be a case of rearranging those (you'd likely want different components, granted).

Really it's just the antenna that's needed, but it's not as though it would be impossible to find room for that.

There are a couple of reasons, but the most obvious one is CPU requirements for Android 3.0. I'm actually surprised that you would even suggest this, because not only is the MIPS CPU in the PSP not smartphone worthy it's not even remotely fast enough for a Gingerbread class device or power efficient for that matter.