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Rumor Clickbait Cringe Rumor claims RDNA2 build for Microsoft

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Mar 23, 2018
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Well MS could codesigned RDNA2 with AMD, which could explain why RDNA2 would not end up with sony consoles. Who knows tho. All tinfoil hat stuff at this point.
 

Vroadstar

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RDNA already has raytracing based on shaders. That's what PS5 will probably use. XSX uses hardware-accelerated raytracing, which is exclusive to RDNA2.

Oh boy, I can't believe some people are still flying with software RT for PS5 even after the system architect of PS5 said this
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," Cerny told Wired, "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for."
 

Metroiddarks

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It is a nonsense is in the same level of stupidity when they say RNDA was only for Playstation. All this are just fanboys of each company believing its favorite company is invincible.
 
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Panaphonics

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Oh boy, I can't believe some people are still flying with software RT for PS5 even after the system architect of PS5 said this
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," Cerny told Wired, "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for."

Why didn’t he say then it’s based on and nextgen architecture or it’s based on RDNA (2.0)?
maybe it’s not based on that but on a custom Sony own implementation?
 

ZywyPL

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Oh boy, I can't believe some people are still flying with software RT for PS5 even after the system architect of PS5 said this
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," Cerny told Wired, "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for."

Apparently not xD
 

replicant-

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Could it be possible for Sony to have an off-chip solution to RT?

I've been wondering how they will approach RT. MS luckily enough has DX RT which is their baby and being used on PC.
 

psorcerer

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Could it be possible for Sony to have an off-chip solution to RT?

I've been wondering how they will approach RT. MS luckily enough has DX RT which is their baby and being used on PC.

RT must use shader pipeline. There's no way to color pixels otherwise. I don't think it can go off chip.
If we look at the NV solution it has only two hw components AFAIK: ray intersection ffp and ray coherency optimizer. All other parts of the pipeline are in pure software.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
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It is very detailed, but we'll see in a couple of days. RDNA2 purely for Microsoft doesn't make a lot of sense, but like I said, a lot of details that make it look like the complete flow of the presentation.

Well if RDNA2 is heavily tied to DXR it may mean AMD are designing there RT hardware which is tailor made for DXR at a hardware level will give them an advantage against RTX. SONY would not need these hardware DXR implementations because Sony don't use DXR.
 
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Deleted member 775630

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Well if RDNA2 is heavily tied to DXR it may mean AMD are designing there RT hardware which is tailor made for DXR at a hardware level will give them an advantage against RTX. SONY would not need these hardware DXR implementations because Sony don't use DXR.
Could be the case, but I can't imagine that AMD would go for that. I would imagine that they are very open when it comes to their GPU and don't necessarily tie everything in to DirectX. We'll know tomorrow.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
Feb 22, 2017
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Could it be possible for Sony to have an off-chip solution to RT?

I've been wondering how they will approach RT. MS luckily enough has DX RT which is their baby and being used on PC.

I think it's more likely they have it on die, e.g they will have a customized. RDNA1 clusters, 2 zen2 clusters and some RT hardware
 

darkinstinct

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Oh boy, I can't believe some people are still flying with software RT for PS5 even after the system architect of PS5 said this
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," Cerny told Wired, "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for."
Shader based raytracing acceleration is not software raytracing. Software raytracing would happen on the CPU.
 

llien

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Wasn’t that back then when certain Gaf posters were claiming or speculating that Navi was also exclusive to Sony’s next gen console?
When I think about it, imagine you are AMD.
Two arch-rivals approach you to develop for them, what will you do?
Probably have two completely disconnected teams working on respective 'semi-customs'.

Now, what kind of questions are NOT OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what semi custom are you doing for my competitor" I guess.

But, what kind of questions are OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what kind of new Tech is on the horizon for us to use in upcoming consoles?"

AMD's R&D annual budget is $1.2-1.6 billion. I think it's too expensive for Sony or Microsoft to afford having entire architecture exclusively to themselves. I don't recall where I read it, but the budgets the two had were said to be about 200-300 million for "semi custom" efforts (including process node bumps).

So, major architectural development will be shared by both, separate semi-custom teams could do relatively minor (compared to full blown new arch) customization (e.g. two mem buses for PS4, "onion" and "garlic" vs that strange memory config Microsoft used).
 
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darkinstinct

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When I think about it, imagine you are AMD.
Two arch-rivals approach you to develop for them, what will you do?
Probably have two completely disconnected teams working on respective 'semi-customs'.

Now, what kind of questions are NOT OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what semi custom are you doing for my competitor" I guess.

But, what kind of questions are OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what kind of new Tech is on the horizon for us to use in upcoming consoles?"

AMD's R&D annual budget is $1.2-1.6 billion. I think it's too expensive for Sony or Microsoft to afford having entire architecture exclusively to themselves. I don't recall where I read it, but the budgets the two had were said to be about 200-300 million for "semi custom" efforts (including process node bumps).

So, major architectural development will be shared by both, separate semi-custom teams could do relatively minor (compared to full blown new arch) customization (e.g. two mem buses for PS4, "onion" and "garlic" vs that strange memory config Microsoft used).
Who knows, if you use the resulting chips in enough devices it might be feasible. But you made a point, it's expensive. So if Sony decided in 2017 to launch in 2019, there would have been only one technology available, RDNA1. So they would've spent 200 million on that. And the resulting Ariel APU reflects that, it's RDNA1 (Navi10). Would at the point where they decided to go for 2020 instead they have spent another 200 million for another architecture? That's a lot of wasted money. I think they just continued with what they had and upped the clock speeds to get the most out of it.
 

nikolino840

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When I think about it, imagine you are AMD.
Two arch-rivals approach you to develop for them, what will you do?
Probably have two completely disconnected teams working on respective 'semi-customs'.

Now, what kind of questions are NOT OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what semi custom are you doing for my competitor" I guess.

But, what kind of questions are OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what kind of new Tech is on the horizon for us to use in upcoming consoles?"

AMD's R&D annual budget is $1.2-1.6 billion. I think it's too expensive for Sony or Microsoft to afford having entire architecture exclusively to themselves. I don't recall where I read it, but the budgets the two had were said to be about 200-300 million for "semi custom" efforts (including process node bumps).

So, major architectural development will be shared by both, separate semi-custom teams could do relatively minor (compared to full blown new arch) customization (e.g. two mem buses for PS4, "onion" and "garlic" vs that strange memory config Microsoft used).
But Sony don't have the PC market with API or games
Amd Is behind schedule with raytracing against Nvidia that already use dxr for raytracing

For now we don't know if it's only for Xbox and PC so we see in a couple of months
 

llien

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Amd Is behind schedule
I think you are misreading it.
After decades of research, NV thought it was a good time to try it.
Microsoft supported it by giving a blessing to actual DirectX API.
If AMD has learned anything about DXR prior to that announcement, it would more likely be a friendly leak,than some sort of agreed schedule to do RT (where did you even get this idea?)
 
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Pallas

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When I think about it, imagine you are AMD.
Two arch-rivals approach you to develop for them, what will you do?
Probably have two completely disconnected teams working on respective 'semi-customs'.

Now, what kind of questions are NOT OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what semi custom are you doing for my competitor" I guess.

But, what kind of questions are OK to ask?
"Hey AMD, what kind of new Tech is on the horizon for us to use in upcoming consoles?"

AMD's R&D annual budget is $1.2-1.6 billion. I think it's too expensive for Sony or Microsoft to afford having entire architecture exclusively to themselves. I don't recall where I read it, but the budgets the two had were said to be about 200-300 million for "semi custom" efforts (including process node bumps).

So, major architectural development will be shared by both, separate semi-custom teams could do relatively minor (compared to full blown new arch) customization (e.g. two mem buses for PS4, "onion" and "garlic" vs that strange memory config Microsoft used).

I get that but a while back the popular theory was that Navi would be exclusive to the PS5, it was pushed pretty hard by certain posters. This kind of reminds me of that, I hope both consoles are as beefy as they can be within affordable expectations.
 
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Who knows, if you use the resulting chips in enough devices it might be feasible. But you made a point, it's expensive. So if Sony decided in 2017 to launch in 2019, there would have been only one technology available, RDNA1. So they would've spent 200 million on that. And the resulting Ariel APU reflects that, it's RDNA1 (Navi10). Would at the point where they decided to go for 2020 instead they have spent another 200 million for another architecture? That's a lot of wasted money. I think they just continued with what they had and upped the clock speeds to get the most out of it.

This is kinda my thinking as well. Oberon's gotten plenty of steppings since the first one, it's possible they could have added in more RDNA2 features with other versions of the steppings, probably even stuff like more CU units (E0 doesn't actually mention the CU count).

However usually with iteration of chips that different, they get full revisions, not steppings. But I do think PS5 will have at least some RDNA2 features built into it. The question would be how many; if their chip is smaller than XSX's and the features are hardware-dependent you can't fit the same amount on a smaller chip.

So I can see a situation where PS5 has less RDNA2 features via hardware than XSX but maybe it's possible to simulate some of the others through software solutions with as low a penalty hit as possible on cycle timings and resources. I'm just guessing here however. If the whole thing about Navi being made for PS5 is true (keep in mind at that time Navi was used interchangeably with RDNA1), then it's maybe possible this thing with RDNA2 and MS is also true, but I personally don't think either is true honestly.

Oh well, we'll find out tomorrow what's really what (and hopefully some other info to boot).
 

Tripolygon

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They have to. Right now the only raytracing API is DirectX Raytracing. It's just now ported to Vulkan by the Khronos Group and Microsoft.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Vulkan Ray Tracing was worked on by Nvidia, AMD and Intel with Nvidia contributing more than the others. Microsoft had nothing to do with it. Plus its been available to developers since 2018 same year as Turing was released.
 
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darkinstinct

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llien

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You have no idea what you are talking about. Vulkan Ray Tracing was worked on by Nvidia, AMD and Intel with Nvidia contributing more than the others. Microsoft had nothing to do with it. Plus its been available to developers since 2018 same year as Turing was released.

There is no Vulkan RT, there is NVs proprietary extension on Vulkan. (VK_NV_)
 

llien

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Should be pretty obvious that's what i was talking about since i emphasized Nvidia and Turing architecture in my reply.

It's pretty obvious you either don't understand the difference between NV's proprietary extensions and "Vulkan RT" or are trying to mislead people.

DXR is an actual vendor neutral standard for RT-ing.
There is no analogy on Vulkan.
 

ethomaz

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Mar 19, 2013
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Fake rumor.

AMD confirmed that Microsoft DXR 1.1 API (the new version of the API) was co-developed by them.

RDNA 2 is developed by AMD only.

They confirmed RDNA 2 is 7nm (not 7nm+) and power the two next-gen consoles (PS5 and Xbox One Series X).

It was just confirmed in the AMD meeting, RDNA2 raytracing was co-engineered with Microsoft.
Nope.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Hello. I'm Mark Cerny. PS5 has his own API, so, we developed our own RT solution for PS5. Who gives a shit about MS.
 

01011001

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Fake rumor.

AMD confirmed that Microsoft DXR 1.1 API was co-developed by them.

RDNA 2 is developed by AMD only.

They confirmed RDNA 2 is 7nm (not 7nm+) and power the two next-gen consoles (PS5 and Xbox One Series X).


Nope.

well to be fair, co-developing the API will most likely have indirectly influenced RDNA2's development.

if you work together closely on the software side that can also mean results of that work can change how the hardware is designed.

but it's not like even if it was fully co-developed with MS that it would be unavailable to Sony, it's not like Microsoft can't use Bluray just because Sony co-developed it.
 

ethomaz

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Mar 19, 2013
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well to be fair, co-developing the API will most likely have indirectly influenced RDNA2's development.

if you work together closely on the software side that can also mean results of that work can change how the hardware is designed.

but it's not like even if it was fully co-developed with MS that it would be unavailable to Sony, it's not like Microsoft can't use Bluray just because Sony co-developed it.
All DirectX are co-developed by vender hardware.

DXR 1.0 co-developed by nVidia to support RTX.
DRX 1.1 co-developed by AMD to support RDNA 2.

I thought you know that at least.
You can't make an API without the vendor hardware help.

Let's think a bit about... do you believe PS5's API is being co-developed with AMD?
BTW Sony won't use DXR.
 
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01011001

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All DirectX are co-developed by vender hardware.

DXR 1.0 co-developed by nVidia to support RTX.
DRX 1.1 co-developed by AMD to support RDNA 2.

I thought you know that at least.
You can't make an API without the vendor hardware help.

you don't know how close they worked together on this.

just saying that it could have influenced RDNA2.
which in the end is not really affecting anything but I'm just saying it could have 🤷‍♂️

remember how developers influenced how the PS4/One and the Switch were designed in their final form... with some pushing for more ram etc.
 
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Gavon West

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Well MS could codesigned RDNA2 with AMD, which could explain why RDNA2 would not end up with sony consoles. Who knows tho. All tinfoil hat stuff at this point.
RDNA2 was developed by AMD and Microsoft. Hmm. Didnt know that. There may be some weight behind this story. Watching the AMD conference now.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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RDNA2 was developed by AMD and Microsoft. Hmm. Didnt know that. There may be some weight behind this story. Watching the AMD conference now.
You did not know because it was not lol
He is trying to fool you.

DXR 1.1 API was co-developed by AMD and Microsofy.
 
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TLZ

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Close thread stupid. It was already obvious both use RDNA 2.

I'm happy you were proven wrong. AGAIN.
 
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Tripolygon

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It's pretty obvious you either don't understand the difference between NV's proprietary extensions and "Vulkan RT" or are trying to mislead people.

DXR is an actual vendor neutral standard for RT-ing.
There is no analogy on Vulkan.
DXR is a vendor neutral API from Microsoft. Vulkan does not have a standard yet but it is being worked on. In the mean time IMG Tech has their extension for RT on Vulkan and Nvidia released their extension which was contributed to by both Intel and AMD, they are all trying to create a standard Vulkan RT solution that is cross Vendor. Read the freaking Vulkan 1.1.133 specifications.

Let Nvidia developer tell you himself how they are trying to bring RT to Vulkan in a cross vendor way.


I don't try to mislead people, only to inform and call out BS.
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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Well if RDNA2 is heavily tied to DXR it may mean AMD are designing there RT hardware which is tailor made for DXR at a hardware level will give them an advantage against RTX. SONY would not need these hardware DXR implementations because Sony don't use DXR.
Because there are direct x drivers for some hardware feature doesn't mean it has no use for equivalent functions on other APIs. MS pulled the same disingenuous strategy when they alluded that only the xbox one could use mega textures because DX 12 + esram.
 
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