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RTX 30 Super refresh all but confirmed.

Mar 23, 2018
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My 3080 is basically bricked. Whenever the card gets too hot it crashes my system. The 3080 line is a POS.

The stock coolers are dog shit from nvidia. They are really really bad for 3080/3080ti/3090. Anyway u still got warranty on it so u can send it in easily.
 
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Black_Stride

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They're more important than a lot of other settings and if hypothetically you had a game at 4k dlss on both the 3060 and 3070 but medium textures on the 70, but ultra on the 60 I can pretty much guarantee it will look better on 60. RT and textures are going to eat up vram fast.

Just wait, you'll see videos on this at some point. The og 2060 with 6gb was gimped even on bf5 with RT at 1080p because of not enough vram.

You put too much weight in super slow VRAM and way way too little weight into the huge CUDA core advantage.
At 1080 - 1440p with all 4K textures frame for frame the RTX 3070 will absolutely walk an RTX 3060.

The fact you are even dropping resolution puts the advantage even more into the RTX 3070, cuz now its far far less likely to actually fill that 8GB of VRAM and your card is going to be choking to hit 60 while the 3070 will breeze past.
The 3070 will be able to load in and out those textures faster just on VRAM alone, and then add in the CUDA advantage and you are fucked.

You need to remember:
the 3070 has a 256bit bus width with bandwidth of 448GB/s
the 3060 has a 192bit bus width with bandwidth of 360GB/s

But thats not even where the real beating is...CUDA count?
RTX 3070 - 5888
RTX 3060 - 3584

You arent making up that deficit because you have higher VRAM.
4 extra GBs of VRAM doesnt make up a near 50% performance advantage.

And before you tell me I dont know squat.
Degree: Computer Science - Minor in Game Design.
Freelance Job: CG artist - using Max and Redshift
Hobby: Game Development since the first UDK was released, moved to CryEngine 3 then Unreal Engine 4.
I can literally fill a scene with High poly geo, Raytracing, Textures with post processing out the ass till I fill well over 8GB of VRAM, effectively an offline only scene.
Even with that stress test the faster chip will still have a higher framerate because VRAM cant cover a 40+% deficit in actual processing power.


At 1440p without even activating Raytracing the RTX 3060 is already failing to get to 60 while the the RTX 3070 is pulling 70s:
 

Dr.D00p

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The stock coolers are dog shit from nvidia. They are really really bad for 3080/3080ti/3090. Anyway u still got warranty on it so u can send it in easily.

That hasn't been my experience at all. My 3080 FE runs really nice as regards to temps. Can't say I've ever seen temps go above 80c with fans running at 60%, even in the most demanding stuff like CP 2077 with all the RT effects cranked up.

Of course, I'm not overclocking the nuts off it for another 5% performance and it is in a nice Meshify C case with good airflow and 5 fans.

Some people shove these high end cards in little shoebox cases and wonder why they're getting hot.
 

Black_Stride

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RTX 3070S 5888 8G G6X
RTX 3060S 5632 12G G6

???


3070S - 256bit - 608GB/s
3060S - 192bit - 360GB/s

But on the real that RTX 3060 Super basically kills everything above it until you reach the RTX 3080.
Lest you are aiming for high framerates you are good with a 3060 Super.
 

YeulEmeralda

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PC gamers don't want to admit it but these crazy GPU prices are good for Xbox and PlayStation.

I paid €500 for a 3060. I'm happy with it but if you're someone who just wants to play new AAA games I recommend a console. The consoles this gen are not underpowered.
 

Hydroxy

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Fucking launch 3050 desktop cards Nvidia so atleast people can buy a half decent card for 1080p gaming FFS. Not a single new sub $250 card since 1650S
 
Mar 23, 2018
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That hasn't been my experience at all. My 3080 FE runs really nice as regards to temps. Can't say I've ever seen temps go above 80c with fans running at 60%, even in the most demanding stuff like CP 2077 with all the RT effects cranked up.

Of course, I'm not overclocking the nuts off it for another 5% performance and it is in a nice Meshify C case with good airflow and 5 fans.

Some people shove these high end cards in little shoebox cases and wonder why they're getting hot.

V-ram hits 100+c easily.
the core gets throttled at 70c already.

The stock 3080 sits at 80c while being slammed and v-ram sits at ~105c.

Its throttling as result and u see unstable low framerates as result with lower clocks = less performance in general.

The 3080 however is still the best out of the 3. the 3080ti is probably the absolute worst as its a 3080 cooler on a 3090 card which simple can't cool it for shit, and the 3090 isn't good either but at least better.
 
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Armorian

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That hasn't been my experience at all. My 3080 FE runs really nice as regards to temps. Can't say I've ever seen temps go above 80c with fans running at 60%, even in the most demanding stuff like CP 2077 with all the RT effects cranked up.

Of course, I'm not overclocking the nuts off it for another 5% performance and it is in a nice Meshify C case with good airflow and 5 fans.

Some people shove these high end cards in little shoebox cases and wonder why they're getting hot.

3080 and 3090 cards have dogshit ram cooling.
 

Armorian

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3070S - 256bit - 608GB/s
3060S - 192bit - 360GB/s

But on the real that RTX 3060 Super basically kills everything above it until you reach the RTX 3080.
Lest you are aiming for high framerates you are good with a 3060 Super.

I oced my 3070 memory to 512GB\s, this 3060 could be limited by BW in 4k like resolutions. Where this additional memory would be helpful otherwise.
 

Black_Stride

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The 3060s specs seem bullshit. I'd imagine it being in the 4k CUDA area. A super has never been better then a ti. It also makes the 3070 totally redundant.

Nvidia fucked up their naming accidentally.
Why you think their lead marketing rep was fired?

It was supposed to be in order of power/performance:

RTX 3070 Super
RTX 3070
RTX 3060 Super
RTX 3060 - Whats named the RTX 3060Ti
RTX 3050 - Whats named the RTX 3060

jk

Fucking launch 3050 desktop cards Nvidia so atleast people can buy a half decent card for 1080p gaming FFS. Not a single new sub $250 card since 1650S
You expect the RTX 3050 to be a sub $250 card?
Itll be a cut down 3060 for 300 or 279 dollars.
Literally a scam at that prcie point.
If only this shortage didnt happen then you could find yourself a second hand RTX 2060S it will vastly outperform the RTX 3050 and 3050Ti.
Surely the 3060 is better than the 2060 super for ray tracing though. A lot of people tout Nvidia cards as better because of RT but practically all of the benchmark youtubers have RT switched off so it's hard to find the real difference. I noticed that 2060 Super actually beats 3060 in CP2077 without DLSS or RT but if you turn those on surely the 3060 would get a bit of a boost... or...nope?
When I tell you the RTX 3060 is a piece of shit Nvidia is scamming us with, I aint joking.
Its an overclocked RTX 2060S with memory that will never be used.
It being priced so close to the 3060Ti and 3070 is the biggest farce Nvidia has had in recent history....and that includes the price hike we got with Turing.

Raytracing performance:
Green line is RTX 3070
Red line is RTX 3060
Blue line is RTX 2060S
 
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nemiroff

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[/QUOTE]
PC gamers don't want to admit it but these crazy GPU prices are good for Xbox and PlayStation.

Newsflash; Consoles are also affected by the electronics supply shortages in much the same way, price hikes and all.
 
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Mar 23, 2018
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3060 is a great card.

12gb of v-ram, 360gbps enough bandwith for 1080p ultra settings for a long time. Main problem the 2060 had was its low v-ram. thats solved now. and 300 msrp price tag.
 

Evilms

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3070S - 256bit - 608GB/s
3060S - 192bit - 360GB/s

But on the real that RTX 3060 Super basically kills everything above it until you reach the RTX 3080.
Lest you are aiming for high framerates you are good with a 3060 Super.
Bandwidth is not everything, and I find it absurd that the 3060S has more vram than the 3070S

if this is really the case then nvidia takes us for idiots
 
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Mar 23, 2018
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Bandwidth is not everything, and I find it absurd that the 3060S has more vram than the 3070S

if this is really the case then nvidia takes us for idiots

Nvidia plays the v-ram game they always did. the only thing they have to do is see what big pc game is launching in 2023 and slam for ultra settings 12gb requirement on it and everybody with ampere will upgrade.

its how they roll.
 

Dr.D00p

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3080 and 3090 cards have dogshit ram cooling.

..If the cooling solution runs the cards at the quoted specs, then they're doing the job that Nvidia designed them for. 100c is not out of spec range, just because you don't like the fact they run at 100c doesn't make it 'dogshit cooling'

If the card is unable to run at those said specs in your PC and causing instability, there is 1 of 2 answers to that..

1.It's a faulty card with badly applied thermal pads, which does happen, in which case, RMA it until you get one that you are happy with

2.Your PC is an overheated oven, in which case, sort it out.
 
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Thabass

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The stock coolers are dog shit from nvidia. They are really really bad for 3080/3080ti/3090. Anyway u still got warranty on it so u can send it in easily.
I sent it in already for this issue and they sent it back with just a benchmark test run...and that was it.

I specifically sent them an email this time and requested a brand new card with it's latest revision.
 

evanft

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I sent it in already for this issue and they sent it back with just a benchmark test run...and that was it.

I specifically sent them an email this time and requested a brand new card with it's latest revision.

If your whole system is crashing, then that may be a sign of a more serious issue. If nVidia benchmarked it and it worked fine but it doesn't work for you, that tells me something could be wrong in the system. Have you swapped out other parts to make sure it isn't the RAM or PSU? What about cooling?
 
Mar 23, 2018
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I sent it in already for this issue and they sent it back with just a benchmark test run...and that was it.

I specifically sent them an email this time and requested a brand new card with it's latest revision.

If they sended it back and its fine, then there is something else wrong in your PC.

Either the card overheats and is bricked or its not. Unless it somehow damaged again when u got it.
 

Black_Stride

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Bandwidth is not everything, and I find it absurd that the 3060S has more vram than the 3070S

if this is really the case then nvidia takes us for idiots
The RTX 3060 has more VRAM than the RTX 3070 already considering the will be using the same memory it makes sense again it has more memory.

What actually shocking is that they didnt use the RTX 3080 memory on the RTX 3070Super.....atleast 10GBs of faster memory would be an actually sizeable upgrade right now they are being super sneaky by giving us the same chip with the same memory from the Ti.
Thats a huge boon for AIBs and themselves, a simple BIOS flash depending on which memory is on board and boom youve made a 3070Super.

And we are idiots for taking the bait.
I aint even gonna front if the RTX 3060S specs are true thats the card im pining for....even if I know by end of year Ada Lovelace will be out.
If i can get it close to MSRP, Lovelace be damned.....if not then maybe ill wait a bit longer.
I still only play at 1440p and im in no rush to start playing at 4K so maybe I can hold out.

But seriously can the mining craze and chip shortage GTFO just so MSRP is something people can actually expect again?
 

Thabass

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If your whole system is crashing, then that may be a sign of a more serious issue. If nVidia benchmarked it and it worked fine but it doesn't work for you, that tells me something could be wrong in the system. Have you swapped out other parts to make sure it isn't the RAM or PSU? What about cooling?
If they sended it back and its fine, then there is something else wrong in your PC.

Either the card overheats and is bricked or its not. Unless it somehow damaged again when u got it.
I have done extensive research into my machine. Changed things out. Reseated and swapped out RAM. Rethermaled my CPU, RETHERMALED THE GPU AND CHANGED THE THERMAL PADS (which admittedly brought temps down), changed and added fans, and made some of them into the exhaust. I changed my PSU THREE FUCKING TIMES and still, the issue persists. The problem with this issue is that comes and goes. Some days it will happen and some days it will not. It's inconsistent to catch in a single instance.

The final straw was when I tried my old 1080 and had zero issues.

It's the card. It's always been the card. The 30 series was rushed to market and I'm fucking sick and tired of trying to prove it.

(Not mad at y'all, just venting frustration lol).
 
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Mar 23, 2018
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I have done extensive research into my machine. Changed things out. Reseated and swapped out RAM. Rethermaled my CPU, RETHERMALED THE GPU AND CHANGED THE THERMAL PADS (which admittedly brought temps down), changed and added fans, and made some of them into the exhaust. I changed my PSU THREE FUCKING TIMES and still, the issue persists. The problem with this issue is that comes and goes. Some days it will happen and some days it will not. It's inconsistent to catch in a single instance.

The final straw was when I tried my old 1080 and had zero issues.

It's the card. It's always been the card. The 30 series was rushed to market and I'm fucking sick and tired of trying to prove it.

(Not mad at y'all, just venting frustration lol).

Well a PC that doesn't work sucks balls, so understandable. I was busy with my elgato for 3 fucking days until i realized 1 setting out of the 200 was off. So yea triggered me to no end to the point i just wanted to throw that shit out of the window.

Anyway.

If its not your PSU, your temps are fine and u windows / drivers are fine ( could download DDU and uninstall + reinstall your driver for a clean driver ), then it sounds like to me either your system ram or v-ram on your card.

Memory always does this shit, it can act up a week after having no issue's to end up in a hell a day later and a month after it u have no issue's again.

Could try if you got 4 bars to remove 2 of them and see if problems stay, if you got 2 bars u could try 1 bar ( not sure if your motherboard accepts it tho, but could try it ) to see if problem persists, if it does replace the bar with the other bar or bars.

I hate memory test programs, they are never accurate and take forever.

if that's not it, then stress test the living shit out of your gpu with 3dmark or just run 3 games over eachother + a gpu benchmark to really stress the living shit out of that card.
 

cyberheater

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Well that's nice. I'm sure the scalpers and miners are dribbling in their shorts.
 

Thabass

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Well a PC that doesn't work sucks balls, so understandable. I was busy with my elgato for 3 fucking days until i realized 1 setting out of the 200 was off. So yea triggered me to no end to the point i just wanted to throw that shit out of the window.

Anyway.

If its not your PSU, your temps are fine and u windows / drivers are fine ( could download DDU and uninstall + reinstall your driver for a clean driver ), then it sounds like to me either your system ram or v-ram on your card.

Memory always does this shit, it can act up a week after having no issue's to end up in a hell a day later and a month after it u have no issue's again.

Could try if you got 4 bars to remove 2 of them and see if problems stay, if you got 2 bars u could try 1 bar ( not sure if your motherboard accepts it tho, but could try it ) to see if problem persists, if it does replace the bar with the other bar or bars.

I hate memory test programs, they are never accurate and take forever.

if that's not it, then stress test the living shit out of your gpu with 3dmark or just run 3 games over eachother + a gpu benchmark to really stress the living shit out of that card.
So question then, if it IS my system RAM, then wouldn't the same issues happen if I use my 1080? I'm using that now so I don't crash anymore and I haven't had a single crash since swapping back to my old GPU. I feel if that were the issue, the crashing would still be happening. It's not now.
 

Rikkori

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Why? It will have less performance than a 3070, and a 6800 is better than a 3070.
6800 still sells for a good price & I wanted to give some Nvidia features a spin (like Ansel for some kick-ass The Surge screenshots). 3060 Super is for me the sweetspot of performance/features/vram, but I guess we'll see the price. Thinking about it some more though I think they'll just arrive too late and I might as well keep the money from selling the 6800 for RDNA 3 if it catches up in RT with Lovelace.
 
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evanft

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So question then, if it IS my system RAM, then wouldn't the same issues happen if I use my 1080? I'm using that now so I don't crash anymore and I haven't had a single crash since swapping back to my old GPU. I feel if that were the issue, the crashing would still be happening. It's not now.

Have you changed the motherboard or tried a different CPU? Have you tried completely different RAM?
 

GloveSlap

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The stock coolers are dog shit from nvidia. They are really really bad for 3080/3080ti/3090. Anyway u still got warranty on it so u can send it in easily.
Do you know if most of the partner cards are much better with regards to cooling? I don't know if they are just taking advantage of the situation, but the premiums that partners are charging over the stock cards is kind of insane.

Just wondering if they are worth it at all.
 

Thabass

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Have you changed the motherboard or tried a different CPU? Have you tried completely different RAM?
That I couldn't do as I don't have an old motherboard / RAM to use. It could be the motherboard, but I fail to see it being the case. As I said, this issue doesn't happen with the old GPU.
 
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Do you know if most of the partner cards are much better with regards to cooling? I don't know if they are just taking advantage of the situation, but the premiums that partners are charging over the stock cards is kind of insane.

Just wondering if they are worth it at all.

They pretty much all have, some have really good cooling systems.

For example this is the stock 3080:





This is the one i got TUF OC: Which i bought through its review as its a super cool / quit card.





It's easy to see why that is. ( 3 fans on top )

While the 3080 FE sits at 78-80c core temp, the tuf sits at 60-65c, huge difference.
V-ram wise its 105c on FE edition, and on asus FE edition its 75-80c.

Now this doesn't seem for the core to be bad at first sight with the FE model, but it actually is as those ampere cards are extremely sensitive to high C for clock speeds. The TUF will easily boost to 2100 mhz at times, while the 3080 has issue's hitting 1900.
Besides being slower u also get performance issue's this way. Specially on the memory, because the memory will error out. This is why nvidia couldn't care to cool them properly it seems like because there was no way for those modules to fail. The memory auto corrects errors which means it will simple render it double. Which will create microstutter through delay or other problems like low fps tanking at times. RDR2 benchmark is a good example here, where if you turn around u can see low fps suddently happening that u can't explain.
The core also goes into throttle mode quicker which results in undervolting actually the way to get better performance out of those cards as heat is the main issue they camp with.

The 3080ti is even worse because they just slammed that 3080 cooler on a 3090 core. And the 3090 has issue's with its memory on the back that is cooled awful.

It's probably the worst designed series from nvidia, everything under the 3080 however like 3070/3060 seem to be fine tho as they don't use nuclear memory.
 
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Dream-Knife

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They pretty much all have, some have really good cooling systems.

For example this is the stock 3080:





This is the one i got TUF OC: Which i bought through its review as its a super cool / quit card.





It's easy to see why that is. ( 3 fans on top )

While the 3080 FE sits at 78-80c core temp, the tuf sits at 60-65c, huge difference.
V-ram wise its 105c on FE edition, and on asus FE edition its 75-80c.

Now this doesn't seem for the core to be bad at first sight with the FE model, but it actually is as those ampere cards are extremely sensitive to high C for clock speeds. The TUF will easily boost to 2100 mhz at times, while the 3080 has issue's hitting 1900.
Besides being slower u also get performance issue's this way. Specially on the memory, because the memory will error out. This is why nvidia couldn't care to cool them properly it seems like because there was no way for those modules to fail. The memory auto corrects errors which means it will simple render it double. Which will create microstutter through delay or other problems like low fps tanking at times. RDR2 benchmark is a good example here, where if you turn around u can see low fps suddently happening that u can't explain.

The 3080ti is even worse because they just slammed that 3080 cooler on a 3090 core.
What are the junction temps for both cards?
 
Mar 23, 2018
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What are the junction temps for both cards?

Those temps are those temps.

This is the 3080 tuf oc, with more then 4+ hours of gaming and being 30 hours on, so average is kinda skewed. Max however stays relevant.



max it saw was 2.115 mhz, and that's at 63 core and 82 mem. ( 82 is the highest i saw it go ever, the gpu core can heat up to 66c at times at absolute worst )
It's in a extremely good cooled case tho, massive tower, 9 noctua fans, 24c normal temp in the room.

The 3080 FE will sit at around 105c on mem, and around 78-80c on the core. in the same comparison.
 
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rnlval

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Looks like the rumored Refresh is real.
Known leaker even has rumored specs


The RTX 30 SUPER will be a stop-gap between Ampere and Lovelace, for this reason, NVIDIA does not want to compete with its own products, but rather give its existing SKUs a bit more power and hopefully also more choice to customers (who may or may not be able to find them the shelves one day).

The RTX 30 SUPER SKUs are not making the current lineup any less confusing than it already was. Should the specs be confirmed, the SKU spam will definitely cause a headache to many enthusiasts, especially those looking at the XX60 series.







Whats slightly more Interesting is that Nvidia plan to have two product launches in the same year.

Ampere Refresh and Lovelace.


Ill eat my crow with a side of salad please.
I called Nvidia wouldnt do a Super refresh so close to Lovelace.
NVIDIA fully enables GA102 for the gaming PC market via RTX 3090 Super. LOL. RTX 3070 Super 8 GB is unlikely since RTX 3070 Ti is already a higher GA104 based SKU.
 

rnlval

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Do you mean most?
Cuz 3500 CUDA cores is a farce.
Its a 2060 Super with VRAM that will never get filled cuz itll choke well before that.
Its not better than the card its replacing?

Each Turing SM has 64 INT and 64 FP CUDA cores.

Each Ampere SM has 64 INT/FP and 64 FP CUDA cores.

Integer shader workload didn't disappear. Most TFLOPS arguments between Ampere vs Turing forget about INT-only CUDA cores.
 
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Dream-Knife

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Those temps are those temps.

This is the 3080 tuf oc, with more then 4+ hours of gaming and being 30 hours on, so average is kinda skewed. Max however stays relevant.



max it saw was 2.115 mhz, and that's at 63 core and 82 mem. ( 82 is the highest i saw it go ever, the gpu core can heat up to 66c at times at absolute worst )
It's in a extremely good cooled case tho, massive tower, 9 noctua fans, 24c normal temp in the room.

The 3080 FE will sit at around 105c on mem, and around 78-80c on the core. in the same comparison.
Good stuff man.
 
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rnlval

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The RTX 3060 has more VRAM than the RTX 3070 already considering the will be using the same memory it makes sense again it has more memory.

What actually shocking is that they didnt use the RTX 3080 memory on the RTX 3070Super.....atleast 10GBs of faster memory would be an actually sizeable upgrade right now they are being super sneaky by giving us the same chip with the same memory from the Ti.
Thats a huge boon for AIBs and themselves, a simple BIOS flash depending on which memory is on board and boom youve made a 3070Super.

And we are idiots for taking the bait.
I aint even gonna front if the RTX 3060S specs are true thats the card im pining for....even if I know by end of year Ada Lovelace will be out.
If i can get it close to MSRP, Lovelace be damned.....if not then maybe ill wait a bit longer.
I still only play at 1440p and im in no rush to start playing at 4K so maybe I can hold out.

But seriously can the mining craze and chip shortage GTFO just so MSRP is something people can actually expect again?
RTX 3080 is based on GA102 ASIC that has 384-bit bus potential and enables NVIDIA to cut down GA102 ASIC with a 320-bit bus for RTX 3080 SKU.

RTX 3070 and RTX 3070 Ti SKUs are based on GA104 ASIC that includes a 256-bit bus design.
 
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Black_Stride

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NVIDIA fully enables GA102 for the gaming PC market via RTX 3090 Super. LOL. RTX 3070 Super 8 GB is unlikely since RTX 3070 Ti is already a higher GA104 based SKU.

Each Turing SM has 64 INT and 64 FP CUDA cores.

Each Ampere SM has 64 INT/FP and 64 FP CUDA cores.

Integer shader workload didn't disappear. Most TFLOPS arguments between Ampere vs Turing forget about INT-only CUDA cores.

RTX 3080 is based on GA102 ASIC that has 384-bit bus potential and enables NVIDIA to cut down GA102 ASIC with a 320-bit bus for RTX 3080 SKU.

RTX 3070 and RTX 3070 Ti SKUs are based on GA104 ASIC that includes a 256-bit bus design.

Youve been here long enough to know how to multi-quote.
Get serious man!