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[Guilty_AI]

So i just finished the first 1996 tomb raider for the first time, and it reafirmed 2 beliefs i have.
-Old games have better level design than newer ones
-Controls are much more of an obstacle to playing them than graphics.

Overall i liked the game. Its the first tomb raider i ever played and i didn't know exactly what to expect from the old titles.
It seems to follow the platformer formula many games at the time were going for, in this case i can't help but think it was trying to be a 3D prince of persia, and i suppose it did a good job if so.

Atmosphere, ambience, music, levels, i think it nails a lot of things even for modern times. The biggest blemish on it for anyone who'd want to play it today are the controls. It just screams "old game" on every aspect. The annoying camera work, shooting that relies on auto-lock, the really-really slow reaction time... fighting enemies was a complete nightmare, especially considering they liked getting close and personal and were often used for traps. The precise requirement for jumping was also a bit annoying but nothing quick-save couldn't solve.

I also can't help but feel they rushed the last levels, where i even inadvertedly broke one of them or would find some exploits.
The way the game literally ended with a big "THE END" still image using some lens-flare effect also screamed a last minute job (and made me chuckle a bit).

 

[German Hops]

My first experience of Tomb Raider was the original game on the PlayStation. It took me a little while to get to grips with it, but once I did I was pretty hooked. I think I've only played through the full game once, possibly twice.. Even to this day, I still have fond memories of figuring out the majority of puzzles myself without the use of guides - although I remember being distinctly bemused that you could save your progress at any point with the PC version, whereas you had to find the blue crystals to save on the PlayStation.. Thankfully they did away with them for Tomb Raider II. I loved the fact that they threw a T-Rex in there, and managed to do so without it feeling completely out of place.

In terms of video games, Tomb Raider was basically my first love. I'd had flings with other games before, such as Doom and everything related to Super Mario, but none of them had quite as much of an impact on me... Well, maybe Mario did, but then Lara came along and corrected some of the misconceptions about women in video games that I had thanks to him, and maybe that's a good starting point to talk about my relationship with Tomb Raider, because that was basically the starting point.

 

[mansoor1980]

miles better than the reboot

 

[Guilty_AI]

miles better than the reboot

which reboot

 

[Kupfer]

It was my first Tomb Raider as well (mainly because there were no other TR games at that time) and I was blown away.
Still getting goose bumps hearing some sounds or the music, it was truly something new to me.
That was like 20 years ago and still today, I have many setpieces, encounters and passages in my mind.
I don't think I'd enjoy to play it today though, like you said, the controls are really "oldschool" (shit) and you have seen eveything from TR in a better version by now in Uncharted (except for the T-Rex) .
It's kind of funny how there was Tomb Raider, then Uncharted inspired by Tomb Raider and then Tomb Raider again inspired by Uncharted.

 

[sublimit]

It seems to follow the platformer formula many games at the time were going for, in this case i can't help but think it was trying to be a 3D prince of persia, and i suppose it did a good job if so.

What do you mean by that? There was nothing like Tomb Raider back in 1996.

The biggest blemish on it for anyone who'd want to play it today are the controls. It just screams "old game" on every aspect.

Couldn't disagree more. The game has a learning curve and demands of the players to learn the controls as they progress in the game and become better themselves.

The annoying camera work,

What was annoying about the camera?

shooting that relies on auto-lock, the really-really slow reaction time... fighting enemies was a complete nightmare, especially considering they liked getting close and personal and were often used for traps.

Combat was one of the easiest aspects in the game you just had to get the feel of the environment and when to roll. Also the majority of enemies can be cheesed by shooting them from somewhere where they can't reach you.

The precise requirement for jumping was also a bit annoying but nothing quick-save couldn't solve.

The precision based platforming is one of the best aspects of the game and is pretty much tied with the level design thanks to the grid system. Also you kinda ruined the game's tension if you played it with quick-saves and not with save crystals.

I also can't help but feel they rushed the last levels, where i even inadvertedly broke one of them or would find some exploits.

All classic TR games had many glitches on PC that speedrunners love to take advantages off.

Glad you gave the game a chance and had the patience to beat it. Btw how old are you if you don't mind me asking?

 

[mansoor1980]

which reboot

the 2013 one

 

[sublimit]

which reboot

Both of them.

 

[Gamerguy84]

The original is top 10 all time for me.

 

[Kuranghi]

Of the OGs I've only ever the Anniversary remake of 1, tons and tons of 2, a few levels of 3, a smidge of 4 and no 5 or 6.

I got Open Lara and was meaning to go back and play og 1 soon but it fell by the wayside, I want to do it soon though.

 

[Aldynes]

Tomb Raider 1 is absolutely amazing, If it was released just a few weeks earlier to beat Mario 64 in stores, it would have blown everyone minds even more, like sublimit said there was no template to follow when designing TR, it was the far west of early 3D game design, most of the early games used 2D gameplay idea still.

 

[Guilty_AI]

thats a looot of complaints sublimit

What do you mean by that? There was nothing like Tomb Raider back in 1996.

Loads of platformers in the middle 1990s. Not saying tomb raider was exactly like the otheres, but it was till a platformer nonetheless.

Couldn't disagree more. The game has a learning curve and demands of the players to learn the controls as they progress in the game and become better themselves.

I did became better at it, but annoying things will still be annoying.

What was annoying about the camera?

It made seeing whats in the corners or just looking at the floor very troublesome. I remember many times were i turned around a corner in a corridor only to be attacked by an enemy or fall to my death before the camera even allowed me to see what was there, or walking normally then falling in a hole because the camera was too low and i couldn't see the floor properly

Combat was one of the easiest aspects in the game you just had to get the feel of the environment and when to roll.

if you say so.

Also the majority of enemies can be cheesed by shooting them from somewhere where they can't reach you.

True, and i did a lot of that, though that resulted in plenty of situations where i'd have to clumsly control lara on the ledge so she was looking at the enemy that kept running around like a drunken cockroach, assuming he wasn't stuck right below me or behind some wall and lara couldn't shoot at it.

The precision based platforming is one of the best aspects of the game and is pretty much tied with the level design thanks to the grid system.

It was fun for what it was, but lets not pretend platforming didn't had its share of annoyances

Also you kinda ruined the game's tension if you played it with quick-saves and not with save crystals.

There were no save crystals. At least i didn't see any. Probably a pc version thing.

All classic TR games had many glitches on PC that speedrunners love to take advantages off.

Can't really say if its just a pc thing. The first level of the the atlantis chapter (right after lara loses her guns) could be cheesed if you just ran right past the first enemy you encounter instead of doing the fuse puzzle to retrieve your gun.

Glad you gave the game a chance and had the patience to beat it.

I did like the game.

Btw how old are you if you don't mind me asking?

old enough to tie my own shoelaces.

 

[tommib]

The original is top 10 all time for me.

Same here bro. Top 5 for me.

 

[Guilty_AI]

It was my first Tomb Raider as well (mainly because there were no other TR games at that time) and I was blown away.
Still getting goose bumps hearing some sounds or the music, it was truly something new to me.
That was like 20 years ago and still today, I have many setpieces, encounters and passages in my mind.
I don't think I'd enjoy to play it today though, like you said, the controls are really "oldschool" (shit) and you have seen eveything from TR in a better version by now in Uncharted (except for the T-Rex) .
It's kind of funny how there was Tomb Raider, then Uncharted inspired by Tomb Raider and then Tomb Raider again inspired by Uncharted.

I honestly didn't though it was like Uncharted at all. Uncharted feels more like a 3rd person shooter with some platforming and puzzle elements, which are fairly straightforward usually. Tomb Raider was straight up a platformer puzzle game, with some shooting on the side.

 

[Kupfer]

Just doing some research, because I had so most dope poster of Lara Croft hanging on the wall in my room and I'm trying to find it, but found instead all the pictures magazines where plastered with in the mid - late 90's which I do not want to withhold from you. I have not seen the pictures for probably 15 years, but it seems to me as if I had just looked through the magazines.

Spoiler: Lara

EDIT : found it

​

Seems like my taste didn't change from that of my 12 year old self, she's still hot af.

Just search for "witchblade tomb raider" for some awesome artworks

 

[Guilty_AI]

Just doing some research, because I had so most dope Poster of Lara Croft hanging on the wall in my room in the 90's and I'm trying to find it, but found instead all the pictures magazines where plastered with in the mid - late 90's which I do not want to withhold from you. I have not seen the pictures for probably 15 years, but it seems to me as if I had just looked through the magazines.

Forgot to shout out for the boobs.
I don't know how well known this is but apparently her bust size was a coding mistake where a certain value was higher than it should've been. The devs left it like that.

 

[assurdum]

I missed so much the old TR. Sigh.

 

[Orta]

One of the best games ever made, warts and all. A level or two in and the tank controls click as long as you acknowledge the slow pace of the game. And it can be patched left right and center to make it look a lot cleaner too.

It and Rise are the best in the series imo.

 

[Great Hair]

The new Tom Braider trilogy is a rip-off, with zero charisma, boring characters changing faces all the time, that copies-off a tetralogy with likeable, charismatic personas based on a guy who can´t fly a fokking Cessna and is into androids.

 

[Guilty_AI]

One of the best games ever made, warts and all. A level or two in and the tank controls click as long as you acknowledge the slow pace of the game. And it can be patched left right and center to make it look a lot cleaner too.

It and Rise are the best in the series imo.

didn't really wanted to do anything that would drastically alter the game.
Only mods i used was one that made textures sligthly sharper, one that put back the ps1 music that apparently was left out of the original pc version and a widescreen mod.

 

[Kupfer]

I honestly didn't though it was like Uncharted at all. Uncharted feels more like a 3rd person shooter with some platforming and puzzle elements, which are fairly straightforward usually. Tomb Raider was straight up a platformer puzzle game, with some shooting on the side.

Go on and play Tomb Raider 2 and 3 then. They push everything a little further and give you more actions and interactions, even with vehicles. And I've written Uncharted inspired by TR not Uncharted is like TR.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Go on and play Tomb Raider 2 and 3 then. They push everything a little further and give you more actions and interactions, even with vehicles. And I've written Uncharted inspired by TR not Uncharted is like TR.

I did get the entire series until the 2013 reboot on GOG, for like $5.
I plan to play the others eventually, including the fabled angel of darkness even if just to see why people disliked it so much.

 

[Kupfer]

I did get the entire series until the 2013 reboot on GOG, for like $5.

If you liked the original Tomb Raider, you'll probably love 2 and 3.

I plan to play the others eventually, including the fabled angel of darkness even if just to see why people disliked it so much.

AFAIR it didn't run on my Windows 95 intel pentium 166mhz machine. I stopped the Tomb Raider games after 3 and started again with the reboot (2013) which, for me, is also a good game, but not a classic Tomb Raider game anymore.

 

[Guilty_AI]

If you liked the original Tomb Raider, you'll probably love 2 and 3.

AFAIR it didn't run on my Windows 95 intel pentium 166mhz machine. I stopped the Tomb Raider games after 3 and started again with the reboot (2013) which, for me, is also a good game, but not a classic Tomb Raider game anymore.

the ones i'm truly interested in playing (apart from 1) are 2, 3, Anniversary and 2013 reboot.
The others just kinda came along for the ride because excluding them from the package would only save me a few cents, so i thought why not.

 

[phil_t98]

So i just finished the first 1996 tomb raider for the first time, and it reafirmed 2 beliefs i have.
-Old games have better level design than newer ones
-Controls are much more of an obstacle to playing them than graphics.

Overall i liked the game. Its the first tomb raider i ever played and i didn't know exactly what to expect from the old titles.
It seems to follow the platformer formula many games at the time were going for, in this case i can't help but think it was trying to be a 3D prince of persia, and i suppose it did a good job if so.

Atmosphere, ambience, music, levels, i think it nails a lot of things even for modern times. The biggest blemish on it for anyone who'd want to play it today are the controls. It just screams "old game" on every aspect. The annoying camera work, shooting that relies on auto-lock, the really-really slow reaction time... fighting enemies was a complete nightmare, especially considering they liked getting close and personal and were often used for traps. The precise requirement for jumping was also a bit annoying but nothing quick-save couldn't solve.

I also can't help but feel they rushed the last levels, where i even inadvertedly broke one of them or would find some exploits.
The way the game literally ended with a big "THE END" still image using some lens-flare effect also screamed a last minute job (and made me chuckle a bit).

Agree over the controls on old games, with the controls on original resident evil being clunky it made the game more scared wits the recent ones its easy to manover so takes the fear factor away a lot

with tomb raider the jumping mechanics at the edge of ledges were a nightmare to time most of the time which lead to so many deaths lol

 

[Orta]

didn't really wanted to do anything that would drastically alter the game.
Only mods i used was one that made textures sligthly sharper, one that put back the ps1 music that apparently was left out of the original pc version and a widescreen mod.

Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to. The only other mod I used was joy2key to get it running flawlessly on a 360 controller.

 

[Scotty W]

I just finished this game on the Saturn. I have never played a Tomb Raider game apart from the demo 25 years ago.

This game is good. Some levels were great honestly, St Francis Folly in particular. The game is hard but fair. A lot of the levels took 3 or 4 hours. I would consider playing TR 2&3.

The game is ugly as sin on the Saturn. While there are occasionally some nice lighting effects, only the most deluded Sega fanboy could look at this brown stew and confidently say the Saturn can do 3d. No, it can do jpg slideshows at 8-15 fps. Saturn has a lot of cool stuff, but no one ever talks about how jank it is- you will feel it within 20 seconds of starting it up.

 

[GenericUser]

I just finished this game on the Saturn. I have never played a Tomb Raider game apart from the demo 25 years ago.

This game is good. Some levels were great honestly, St Francis Folly in particular. The game is hard but fair. A lot of the levels took 3 or 4 hours. I would consider playing TR 2&3.

The game is ugly as sin on the Saturn. While there are occasionally some nice lighting effects, only the most deluded Sega fanboy could look at this brown stew and confidently say the Saturn can do 3d. No, it can do jpg slideshows at 8-15 fps. Saturn has a lot of cool stuff, but no one ever talks about how jank it is- you will feel it within 20 seconds of starting it up.

If I'm not mistaken, the saturn version is by far the worst version. Less lighting effects, lower resolution, less polys. There are some minor advantages over the PS1/PC version (I think the water looks a little nicer) but overall, the worst version by far.

 

[OceanicWaterHorse]

 

[Filben]

I'm not missing the controls of the old games or combat. But the new games could really lern from the old games in terms of traversal that is actually challenging, the need to look where I can go, grab on or climb or move hand over hand, and of course the isolation.

Instead they made a Michael Bay game out of it, with too much explosiony, too much screams, too much character interaction.

2013 was good for what it was and I was intrigued by the island and story. Only to have Rise a very boring Russia inspired location and baddies, have needless side quests and even more open hubs. And then went full over board with Shadow and the "I've doomed the world" complex. The jungle was cool, but I miss the globetrotting ass kicking Lara that doesn't whine and cry and scream constantly. It was something new in 2013 to see that side of her. But we didn't need three games with simply more of that.

 

[winjer]

I have to disagree that the controls are an obstacle. The problem is that they are slow and tankish. But they are very precise and fit perfectly with the game's grid system.
Planning a jump with Lara in the first games is solving a small puzzle by itself.
Combat was bad, as it was just a matter of locking on and jumping around to avoid some damage.

The controls on the 2006 reboot are much worse. Jumping is floaty and has a good amount of rubber banding. And the QTEs are terribly bad.
Gameplay in this saga is by far the worst in the series.

 

[Scotty W]

Agree over the controls on old games, with the controls on original resident evil being clunky it made the game more scared wits the recent ones its easy to manover so takes the fear factor away a lot

with tomb raider the jumping mechanics at the edge of ledges were a nightmare to time most of the time which lead to so many deaths lol

Tomb Raider reminds me of those old ’Made with Macromedia’ games. Honestly it is not so far away from all that forgotten weird early 90’s jank.

It is really good, but nowhere near the level of Mario 64. It doesn’t have to be, but all the hype put me off of it back in the day. Though obviously they made a lot of money by hyping it so I understand.

 

[phil_t98]

Tomb Raider reminds me of those old ’Made with Macromedia’ games. Honestly it is not so far away from all that forgotten weird early 90’s jank.

It is really good, but nowhere near the level of Mario 64. It doesn’t have to be, but all the hype put me off of it back in the day. Though obviously they made a lot of money by hyping it so I understand.

the original tomb raider games were great at the time but have aged badly now, slow and clunky. really enjoyed them back in the day. the new tomb raider games were great in my opinion but obvs lots of people don't like them.

Mario 64 is like a fine wine were its still as good today as it was back then, it was really hard and really simple at the same time

 

[Scotty W]

the original tomb raider games were great at the time but have aged badly now, slow and clunky.

This is going to sound weird, but Mario feels Natural or Organic. By contrast, Tomb Raider is actually very rigid with its grid system, though this is well disguised by the environment.

I didn’t mind the clunky controls too much since it was clear the game was adapted to specifically those controls. However, I have a tolerance for games from this period. I suspect that the game will be essentially unplayable in 10 years, whereas Mario 64 will remain a classic.

 

[phil_t98]

This is going to sound weird, but Mario feels Natural or Organic. By contrast, Tomb Raider is actually very rigid with its grid system, though this is well disguised by the environment.

I didn’t mind the clunky controls too much since it was clear the game was adapted to specifically those controls. However, I have a tolerance for games from this period. I suspect that the game will be essentially unplayable in 10 years, whereas Mario 64 will remain a classic.

the analog controller did that. the original tomb raider games did have analog controls as it wasn't really a thing till later in the gen

 

[Scotty W]

the analog controller did that. the original tomb raider games did have analog controls as it wasn't really a thing till later in the gen

Yes, but I would add that the levels and gameplay were designed around the analog controls, so it is not a massive problem.

Did they keep the grid system in the sequels? Joysticks seem to offer more wiggle room for gameplay, which perhaps what I mean by Mario feeling more natural.

 

[phil_t98]

Yes, but I would add that the levels and gameplay were designed around the analog controls, so it is not a massive problem.

Did they keep the grid system in the sequels? Joysticks seem to offer more wiggle room for gameplay, which perhaps what I mean by Mario feeling more natural.

again Mario was designed around the analog, when tomb raider 1 2 and 3 were designed analog wasn't on Ps1 at the time. the sequels all had it if I am remembering correctly. when they switch to analog the level design could change.

with Mario and tomb raider they were both different styles of games and gameplay massivly different so it would always play different and controls feel different

 

[PaddyOCanager]

I just beat it for the first time a few months ago. I pretty much agree with your assessment. Only issue I had was the controls but once you adapt to that hurdle it's a fantastic game. I jumped right into number 2 but got stuck and haven't gotten back to it just yet.

 

[mave198]

Wait until Steam has another sale and pick up Tomb Raider Anniversary for 99 cents. Really great remake of the first game.

 

[tkscz]

So i just finished the first 1996 tomb raider for the first time, and it reafirmed 2 beliefs i have.
-Old games have better level design than newer ones
-Controls are much more of an obstacle to playing them than graphics.

Overall i liked the game. Its the first tomb raider i ever played and i didn't know exactly what to expect from the old titles.
It seems to follow the platformer formula many games at the time were going for, in this case i can't help but think it was trying to be a 3D prince of persia, and i suppose it did a good job if so.

Atmosphere, ambience, music, levels, i think it nails a lot of things even for modern times. The biggest blemish on it for anyone who'd want to play it today are the controls. It just screams "old game" on every aspect. The annoying camera work, shooting that relies on auto-lock, the really-really slow reaction time... fighting enemies was a complete nightmare, especially considering they liked getting close and personal and were often used for traps. The precise requirement for jumping was also a bit annoying but nothing quick-save couldn't solve.

I also can't help but feel they rushed the last levels, where i even inadvertedly broke one of them or would find some exploits.
The way the game literally ended with a big "THE END" still image using some lens-flare effect also screamed a last minute job (and made me chuckle a bit).

I've said it before and I'll always say it, there is no such thing as "dated controls." Either the controls fit the game and controller they were made for or the controls were always bad. This was a point before analog controls spread to all consoles, so 3D controls on the D-pad weren't easy. You had 360 degrees of movements but a control pad that could only go in 8 of those directions. The tank like controls were the only way to move and thus the game bases itself around the way you move. If you played any full 3D game at the time you were already use to it. This is no longer the case so people are simply not used to it.

That said the controls didn't really fit Tomb Raider's combat that well as it did suffer from the problems you pointed out and I don't believe there is a way to push enemies that get too close away from you.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I've said it before and I'll always say it, there is no such thing as "dated controls." Either the controls fit the game and controller they were made for or the controls were always bad. This was a point before analog controls spread to all consoles, so 3D controls on the D-pad weren't easy. You had 360 degrees of movements but a control pad that could only go in 8 of those directions. The tank like controls were the only way to move and thus the game bases itself around the way you move. If you played any full 3D game at the time you were already use to it. This is no longer the case so people are simply not used to it.

Thats why i said "for anyone who'd want to play it today". Heck i played half life using the arrow keys which didn't strafe but just turned the camera, mouse only for aiming. It was what i was used to at the time.

But what i feel like is no matter how well the controls may have been back then, getting used to them now that we are accostumed to more responsive control schemes, either from evolution of the medium or better controllers, is a bit of a challenge. First thing i do when i load up an old shooter nowadays is look for mouse aim mods.

 

[Old_and_Slow]

Props to you OP for trying out and enjoying a classic! I agree with you about the game having great level design and I will add the puzzles were good for the most part.

The controls ARE annoying and kinda clunky at times. They felt that way back in '96 when the game was new so you're not wrong.

 

[Alexios]

The game is ugly as sin on the Saturn. While there are occasionally some nice lighting effects, only the most deluded Sega fanboy could look at this brown stew and confidently say the Saturn can do 3d. No, it can do jpg slideshows at 8-15 fps. Saturn has a lot of cool stuff, but no one ever talks about how jank it is- you will feel it within 20 seconds of starting it up.

I mean, it's visibly inferior to PlayStation in both visuals and frame drops but hardly leagues apart to consider one system capable of 3D and the other not so. Unless you mean neither was. Performance is more like 15-25 than 8-15 so not exactly unheard of for that generation, even if TR runs better elsewhere. Of course plenty other 3D games perform better on Saturn, whether 30 or 60 (the latter more rare naturally) and plenty other games perform similarly or worse on other platforms you find capable. Hell, GTAIII on PS2 is around Tomb Raider Saturn framerates when driving around the city.

​

​

The 3D is fairly solid for a game not exactly tuned to take advantage of Saturn's strengths or mitigate its weaknesses. Also being an earlier version it lacks optimizations (or basically flat out removals of stuff) the PS version got. A larger draw distance is often evident, as well as the water distortion effects both when looking at pools of water from above and when actually submerged. I think there's also polygonal surface displacement but it's hard to tell without firing it up. I dunno why they'd choose to render extra stuff on a system with lower performance so alongside the various bugs the only logical answer is that it's missing a polish/optimization pass. That's just the visible portion too. On PlayStation you also get more obvious polygon seams manifesting as long lines between surfaces as you wander and though texture warping is visible on both I'd say it's more so on PlayStation.

Still, PlayStation wins overall as said already, it just looks and runs smoother and with better lighting on most occasions and most areas don't make the lower draw distance an issue (just as the precise digital controls and slow gameplay pace don't make the lower performance on Saturn an issue).

Mind the Japanese release on Saturn did in fact fix some issues, used more final textures in some spots, fixed the harp texture being reversed and reduced loading times, though it's not some night and day difference bringing it on par with PS or whatever was rumoured in the pre-Internet days.

 

[Wildebeest]

Analogue controls were not standard around the time, with Mario 64 just coming out and people not even bothering to use their mouse for Doom on PC. Even saying that, the controls on Tomb Raider were very finicky and a barrier that people only got over because the game was so impressive in other ways. There are a lot of games around the time which were just a puzzle in themselves to work out how to control, like Descent, which was anarchy in terms of working out what combination of weird controllers you wanted to use.