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[mortal]

Am I crazy, or would Rockstar's meticulously detailed approach to game worlds lend itself very well to the VR platform?

The potential success of Half Life: Alyx seems rather promising after the positive reception from the announcement trailer despite it being a VR exclusive.
I can see it not only inspiring purchases and more VR adoption; I can also see it inspiring a few more developers & publishers to make their own VR exclusive with AAA production.

There were points while playing RDR2 I found the game leaning much more into simulator territory, so I can totally see Rockstar extrapolating on that design philosophy to a natural progression into VR . Also, I'm convinced the simulator genre in particular will find renewed life and hardcore audience in VR , but I digress.

With a full embrace of VR, I can see Rockstar actually

• Embracing a purely open world design without any conditional, linear sections. 100% chose your own approach and use the assets and physics of the world to your advantage.
• Significantly more complex interactions with the game's AI, which could lead more dynamic emergent gameplay. Which would include potentially killing NPCs that play prominent roles in certain storylines within the game. Or certain events or opportunities in the game moving on if ignored indefinitely.
• A much more dense and interactive map. Featuring more accessible interiors than any of their previous titles.
• Letting the player make more creative use of any of the assets in the game world. for example, using any inanimate object as a potential weapon. No lethal weapon such as a firearm or knife, but can pick up and Radom bottle and throw it to stagger an NPC.

An exclusive title such as that would be closer to a convincing virtual reality than a traditional game, and one with an experience that could not be fully replicated on non-VR platforms. All with its fair share of technical limitations of course.

TLDR: AAA VR exclusive developed by Rockstar, made from the ground up for VR would be incredible. Could potentially be a game changer for VR. Maybe not next-gen, but eventually.

 

[Romulus]

I posted this in the other thread, but this mod is badass, and would be even better with official support. The scale of GTA goes to waste without VR imo, even with a massive 70 inch monitor, seeing it VR is just on another level completely.

 

[darkinstinct]

They have like zero knowledge in high frame rate games. Or fast movements. Imagine a VR game with 200 ms input lag. The reason why you see no open world games the scale of a GTA in VR is a purely performance related one. You can't get 120 fps in those today. And that will stay for quite some time because we are more likely to get 4K resolution in VR than big open worlds, to reduce the screen door effect. And 4K/120? In a GTA like game? Gonna take some time.

And there's of course the fact that even if the hardware became available, you are talking about a game costing 300+ million and being sold to 2 million people. While they could use that money to just create a game for 150 million people. As long as performance is the limiting factor of VR (which it will always be) you won't see AAA games for it except your VR headset manufacturer's heavily subsidized lighthouse games. I fully expect a port of Alyx to non-VR with in two years.

 

[TeamGhobad]

No thank you.

 

[Romulus]

They have like zero knowledge in high frame rate games. Or fast movements. Imagine a VR game with 200 ms input lag. The reason why you see no open world games the scale of a GTA in VR is a purely performance related one. You can't get 120 fps in those today. And that will stay for quite some time because we are more likely to get 4K resolution in VR than big open worlds, to reduce the screen door effect. And 4K/120? In a GTA like game? Gonna take some time.

There's no way the input lag was even close to 200ms when I played it or I would have noticed immediately.

Why do you need 4k for vr? 1440p actually looks damn good in VR, and that's way less of a rendering load than 4k. I've never known of anyone that requires 120fps VR in my demos, 90fps is fine for the overwhelming majority, even overkill for some. Hell even alot of PSVR games are 60fps locked and many are okay with that in my experience.

LA Noire has open world sections that ran on PSVR at locked 60fps and the base ps4 is an absolute turd of a machine for VR. PS5 will easily be 5x the GPU grunt and 4x the cpu.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

I'd prefer small scale high detail type developers. Give me some sort of cat and mouse gameplay mechanic with a horror spin set in some mansion. Something heavy on destructibility and physics.

 

[mortal]

They have like zero knowledge in high frame rate games. Or fast movements. Imagine a VR game with 200 ms input lag.

Why would that also dictate their approach on another platform? Wouldn't they logically target higher frame rates for this hypothetical VR exclusive? They would have to understand and aim for higher frame rates for best performance.
It's true that Rockstar's past titles were designed with to run in 30fps for consoles., but it's also an extreme assumption to say they zero knowledge, no?
Games like RDR2 or GTA V were designed with under particular conditions which would go on to influence the choices made for performance. Producing a VR exclusive would be under conditions more particular to VR. Their problem solving would be slightly different for a VR game.
Speaking as a layman here, but I'm sure Rockstar as a developer would be much more mindful of that than I am, given their approach to game design and their general experience.

The reason why you see no open world games the scale of a GTA in VR is a purely performance related one.

That's not necessarily true. While of course performance would be relevant, given the technical aspect of game production, it's not the sole factor. The market is a huge influence on certain genres and appeal factor.
As of now, the VR platforms have a smaller install base than traditional gaming platforms. I'd imagine investing in AAA production for a game exclusive to VR platforms is likely too much risk for most developers and publishers, save for maybe a handful.
Assuming the adoption rate of VR trends upward with the continued success of larger budget titles, there could be a few more VR exclusives like Half Life: Alyx Which is why I mentioned Half Life : Alyx, as it seems to be a unique example of a VR game.

Tbh 4K/120 isn't even crucial to the experience. 1080p/120fps would be acceptable, as the higher resolutions wouldn't make that much difference with the examples I mentioned in the OP.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

Rockstar Presents Table Tennis VR

 

[Deleted member 774430]

I can only imagine the motion sickness with Rockstar's terrible driving/shooting controls. (X _ X)

Jokes aside it would be cool, but modern Rockstar has become another EA: only interested in mtx for their GTA Online. For that reason GTA 6 will also be significantly different from 5 and the previous ones.

 

[mortal]

Rockstar Presents Table Tennis VR

Funny how a simple Tennis game laid the foundation for modern Rockstar games.

If they entered the VR arena, it would be a game changer.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

An Orcs Must Die! or Dead by Daylight game in VR would be interesting.

 

[mortal]

I posted this in the other thread, but this mod is badass, and would be even better with official support. The scale of GTA goes to waste without VR imo, even with a massive 70 inch monitor, seeing it VR is just on another level completely.

Even as a mod with a gamepad, the experience it transformed. Something from the ground up designed with VR as the focus would make for so interesting results I think.

 

[namekuseijin]

when PS5 reveal event kicked off with GTA V, I was sure they'd add R to it. Nothing.

but I'm still hopeful it will be one of its selling points on PS5.

The reason why you see no open world games the scale of a GTA in VR is a purely performance related one. You can't get 120 fps in those today

first: you don't need 120Hz. Most headsets are 80-90Hz.

second: fiy, Skyrim, Fallout 4, No Man's Sky, Borderlands 2 and other large OW with amusing drawing distances are fully in VR in official ports

and finally, Rockstar has had VR experience already. They ported L.A. Noire to VR. Just a few cases, but the whole 40s LA map is there for free exploration...

I do think their games are well suited for VR indeed: the pacing of the action is human-like, I mean the shooting and punching are all human-level speed, not some crackhead action only possible to pull off with mouse or buttons, like Doom. You'd be able to punch or aim with your own hands without needing real ninja dexterity.

I was really hoping to see RDR2 for psvr in the reveal event. Because some time ago they've uncovered code in the PC port related to Oculus and other headsets. Reveal pending...

 

[DeeDogg_]

Yeah so they can release GTAV on it yet again

 

[DragoonWalker]

Until VR hardware is advanced enough to be contained within a slim lite pair of comfy sunglasses without a beefy rig... I don't want any heavy duty experiences on it.

 

[namekuseijin]

I'd prefer small scale high detail type developers. Give me some sort of cat and mouse gameplay mechanic with a horror spin set in some mansion. Something heavy on destructibility and physics.

I prefer actual games rather than pointless VR physics sandboxes indies revel in. Borderlands 2 has exactly zero environmental physics and I couldn't care less while I'm gunning down and punching dozens of foes in large maps

 

[namekuseijin]

Until VR hardware is advanced enough to be contained within a slim lite pair of comfy sunglasses without a beefy rig... I don't want any heavy duty experiences on it.

 

[DragoonWalker]

Don't have moving target of what's comfy to me. VR didn't look comfy in 90s and it still doesn't. Will jump when it is. If I die before then won't know what I missed anyway. Lots of non VR games to play.

 

[namekuseijin]

Don't have moving target of what's comfy to me. VR didn't look comfy in 90s and it still doesn't. Will jump when it is. If I die before then won't know what I missed anyway. Lots of non VR games to play.

there was no consumer grade VR in the 90s and sorry you're missing in the biggest gaming revolution since the 90s jump from 2D to 3D

thankfully, your loss, not mine

 

[Mattyp]

They can't even get normal controls right in 2020 why would we have any hope they can get them in right in VR.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

I prefer actual games rather than pointless VR physics sandboxes indies revel in. Borderlands 2 has exactly zero environmental physics and I couldn't care less while I'm gunning down and punching dozens of foes in large maps

Except that physics based gameplay is mechanics open up a lot of possibilities. I don't see why the two can't coexist and I especially don't see what that has to do with VR.

 

[Matt_Fox]

Look at the Steam numbers, Half Life: Alyx the new AAA VR title averaged a tiny 1,000 players in May.

The release is still warm and It's not even in the current top 100 games: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

There's no way that Rockstar or any other software house are going to be devoting resources to make AAA VR titles for some time. The player base just doesn't exist yet, hopefully it will grow but it's got a long way to go.

 

[namekuseijin]

Look at the Steam numbers, Half Life: Alyx the new AAA VR title averaged a tiny 1,000 players in May.

The release is still warm and It's not even in the current top 100 games: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

There's no way that Rockstar or any other software house are going to be devoting resources to make AAA VR titles for some time. The player base just doesn't exist yet, hopefully it will grow but it's got a long way to go.

they don't need to make native VR titles at all when all that makes VR great is already a part of their games.

L.A. Noire has physics interactions as good as it many native VR titles, in good part because the infrastructure for this was already a part of the game. Same for other of their games, notably GTA V and RDR2.

it's just a matter of when. You just wait and see because this decade is the start of the change from flat screens to spatial computing everywhere around you.

 

[Kev Kev]

i would put bethesda games up their at the top. however, considering all the issues bethesda games have (skyrim vr is great, but still contains alot of the small gltiches and jankyness), id have to agree that rockstar is up there too.

ive alwasy wished for a rockstar style zombie game set in the big city with some of the elder scrolls elements infused in

 

[Holammer]

Yes, they would be. But they're in the business of making money, bit fat stacks of Benjamins. Not the chump change the VR market is worth right now.

 

[GobbledeeGoo]

Yes, they would be. But they're in the business of making money, bit fat stacks of Benjamins. Not the chump change the VR market is worth right now.

Experience is invaluable. Having some smaller projects and experiencing the growing pains of VR development would have a long term benefit to a company. It's not the worst idea.

 

[Romulus]

Look at the Steam numbers, Half Life: Alyx the new AAA VR title averaged a tiny 1,000 players in May.

The release is still warm and It's not even in the current top 100 games: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/


There's no way that Rockstar or any other software house are going to be devoting resources to make AAA VR titles for some time. The player base just doesn't exist yet, hopefully it will grow but it's got a long way to go.

Doom Eternal released at roughly the same time as Alyx and isn't on that Steam top 100 players either. Does that mean Bethesda won't release another AAA Doom game? No.

Thats why your steam playerbase numbers are a shit argument.

Sales is key.

Alyx was in the top 5 sales on the steam charts for weeks. That's what matters.

 

[Matt_Fox]

Doom Eternal did release around the same time, but unlike Half-Life: Alyx it was multi-format; Switch, PS4 and Xbox so the Steam player tally only tells a small part of the story.

Even then looking at the past 30 days stats... Half Life Alyx: peaked at 2,300, and Doom Eternal peaked at 5,000. So double the players for Doom, and that's just PC not counting all the console players.

It's numbers so it's hard evidence, and Romulus I know you are a huge advocate for VR and will suffer no negativity. But when a new AAA VR title only averages a 1000 monthly players you have to ask questions.

 

[killatopak]

GTA V Online VR.

They’re gonna milk it. I just know it.

 

[Romulus]

Doom Eternal did release around the same time, but unlike Half-Life: Alyx it was multi-format; Switch, PS4 and Xbox so the Steam player tally only tells a small part of the story.

Even then looking at the past 30 days stats... Half Life Alyx: peaked at 2,300, and Doom Eternal peaked at 5,000. So double the players for Doom, and that's just PC not counting all the console players.

It's numbers so it's hard evidence, and Romulus I know you are a huge advocate for VR and will suffer no negativity. But when a new AAA VR title only averages a 1000 monthly players you have to ask questions.

But this even furthers my point. Steam users with VR headset are about 2% of the entire Steam database. So, for Alyx to reach half of Doom's player base helps my argument. And for it to be on the top 5 sales is even more ridiculous.

 

[Matt_Fox]

Okay chap, well you're very good at seeing the sunny side. Those VR goggles are certainly rose tinted!

If you're convinced that averaging just 1,000 monthly players is brilliant for a new AAA title then I wont rain on your parade any further.

 

[Rudius]

They just need to port GTA 5 and Red Dead Redemption 2 to VR. Both already have first person modes and I would certainly play those again in a PSVR 2.

 

[YCoCg]

Did people forget L.A. Noire exists again?

 

[dead monkey uk]

Could they turn GTA5 first person mode into VR. I could see a new $40 GTA5 VR release.

Also where is the version of GTA5 Switch.

 

[PropellerEar]

I don't think the money is there for R* to be interested in VR.

 

[Romulus]

Okay chap, well you're very good at seeing the sunny side. Those VR goggles are certainly rose tinted!

If you're convinced that averaging just 1,000 monthly players is brilliant for a new AAA title then I wont rain on your parade any further.

Why aren't you quoting my posts? That's such a lazy way of conversation when you're obviously spending the time to converse with me anyway. But again, you're thinking process matches that, so it makes sense. You probably don't know what attach rate is and the obvious implications investors are seeing with a small userbase that is slowly growing.

You're making everything personal(fanboy!) in an attempt to deflect away from the points too, which is another low brow tactic.

"Average player base" has nothing to do with whether a single-player game will get a sequel or a platform is dead. Sequels don't get funded by playtime, they get funded by sales. It's just a different thing altogether and you're simply cherrypicking a useless metric(in this case) to prove a point. Do you honestly think when the time comes around to fund a VR sequel, that the company looks at playtime on steam or their bank account? You don't pay programmers and artists with steam playtime, you do it with money.

 

[Romulus]

Did people forget L.A. Noire exists again?

Yeah, they spend the time to port it twice to VR, another time years later after the first. So if it was just a massive failure the first time, why do it again?

That's what people don't understand. Rockstar can do whatever the hell they please as long as they put out a GTA and RDR every few years. It's not about surviving for them. Borderlands, Skyrim, NMS, Fallout, RE7 have all gotten VR ports and Rockstar is obviously already flirting with the idea. It's just not a crazy thing to imagine it would happen.

 

[Decontamination Silo]

Rockstar died when Houser was ousted. We just haven't had the funeral yet because we don't have the first game he didn't have any input on. Give it time. They're just a big 2K studio now. If throwing money at a dev team was an indicator of quality to come you'd see a lot of Rockstars.

 

[namekuseijin]

Okay chap, well you're very good at seeing the sunny side. Those VR goggles are certainly rose tinted!

If you're convinced that averaging just 1,000 monthly players is brilliant for a new AAA title then I wont rain on your parade any further.

it's a single-player game, how many players do you think will keep playing TLOU2 monthly after they finish it?

gosh, are multiplayer pc kids dense

 

[namekuseijin]

I don't think the money is there for R* to be interested in VR.

a VR port of their games is basically as easy as putting the camera in the players head, making it render from 2 points of view, detaching the aim from the camera and putting the gun in the players hands, and adding some extra geometry checks so the player can't step into walls. All the rest is part of the game already, including all the physics.

it's an added market and while small it's sure to grow, like it slowly grows every time a known franchise gets a VR release, like Skyrim did, Borderlands, FNAF, The Room, NMS etc