Richard Leadbetter of Digital Foundry: Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable

jigglet

Member
So what he's saying is - Nintendo was leading the charge all along? Wii U redeemed? N64 retroactively the greatest technical achievement of all time?!
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
Two dev studios failed to optimize their games well recently. One less than the other. It's not the end of the world. Developers like, well, practically all of Sony's to start, aren't going to suddenly forget how to make games well.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I agree.

Not to mention that MS's first next gen game will be 60fps with RTX (Forza).
Racers are almost always 60fps though because there's not much to calculate like NPCs, next area loading, complex animations, etc. Driveclub was the exception
 

Rykan

Gold Member
The trailer was captured at 30fps. Played back on youtube at 60fps
Silent Hill trailer was not "played back" at 60 FPS. The trailer was originally broadcasted in 30 FPS because the entire livestream presentation was broadcasted in that framerate. It was 60 FPS footage being played at 30 FPS, not the other way around. There is no "speed up" or "interpolation" going on in the actual 60 FPS trailer.

Richard is simply wrong in this account. The industry has now trained its audience to expect 60 FPS modes and that expectation will have to be lived up to.

Racers are almost always 60fps though because there's not much to calculate like NPCs, next area loading, complex animations, etc. Driveclub was the exception
There were a lot of exceptions, actually. All the Forza Horizons ran at 30 FPS and most of the Need for Speed games did as well.
 
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I expected this. I doubt 60fps will ever become the standard. They should allow the choice of frame rate and fidelity mode at least to get the best of both worlds.
 
Pro consoles anyone?


Confused High Quality GIF
Rdna 4 and zen 5
 
Of course 30 fps is going to become the norm for these current consoles and its the very reasons we need these pro consoles in our hands sooner rather than later
Not sooner we don’t want pros with rushed tech. When rdna 4 and zen 5 come out in 2024 is when they should release
 
"On 40FPS being the new "performance mode":"

Better than nothing I suppose. I haven't tried 40fps modes yet so I may have to check that out next time and see how I feel about it.

30 fps is ok for some games, but for most AAA games on big screens it just doesn't work for me. Time for mid-gen refresh.

Ironic if it has been cross-gen games that have allowed 60fps so far. Folks should be careful what they ask for.
Mid Gen refreshes 2024 rdna 4 zen 5 or zen 4 3D cache
 
All sony games have actiony and fast paced combat except maybe tlou, they should all be 60 but you have limited choices with a cheap hardware.

You can't have

High res
High framerate
Big jump in graphic


Chose 2 (or 1,5 when 4k is checkboard and not native and the performance mode is 40 hz instead of 60)
Or wait for pro models
 
But then they’ll make pro games 30FPS so better just release the PS6 sooner rather than later…. Make that a PS6 Pro
They would have to make a bespoke higher fidelity pro mode i think it will just be used for frames and other minor things like settings
 
I will never buy a PS Pro anything. Didn't get it on PS4 either.

I'd potentially consider a Xbox Pro just because I have a Series S so that wasn't quite as expensive.

Most likely will just skip both and get a Switch 2.
Do you already own the base ps5 and series x? I assume if you don’t own the consoles yet it’s better to go for the pro
 
Not quite convinced yet. When talking about consoles we're used to the PS4/Xone gen with shit CPUs that can't do 60fps or the 360/ps3 gen with crap GPUs that couldn't do 30, this is the first generations of consoles where they aren't really bottlenecked by one terrible compotent and I still think there will be room for a cut down 60fps mode in the majority of games. Will there be outliers? Sure, there will always be: Ambition, developer vision, budget and time constraints, but I expect the majority of games to remain GPU-bound which is relatively easy to scale by removing RT and/or lowering resolution. I expect RT will be becoming more and more common so performance modes aren't going anywhere.

As for CPU-bound scenarios, very few games will push these CPUs to the point 60 fps is impossible. A plague tale is a rare case where they want 300.000 rats at once, you won't see that too often. Most games will remain GPU-bound and if a game can't do 60fps on these CPUs, I have some bad news for the PC version too which you will have to bruteforce with top of the line hardware while saying goodbye to the 100+ frames you guys are used to.


Essentially, a Plague tale is the first major title to not have a 60 fps in over two years (Gotham knights is a Joke) and the fear mongering has already started. There's tons of 60+ major games on the Horizon with God of War being the next, I'm not really worried.
Uh what the cpus are the main and frankly only problems with the consoles it’s the only part of them that launched immediately outdated
 
I dont get it, we have better CPU's this time in the consoles and on top of that we have the likes of FSR to improve performance.

Its more likely that gamers will have to get used to the fact that games will not be rendered at native resolution.
The cpus were never good unlike the gpu
 
It was bound to happen unless we want to stick forever with cross gen games and personally I don't want that.
But:
1) 40fps mode with VRR on 120Hz displays might be the best of both worlds and it's realistic.
2) The 60fps crowd can still look forward to mid gen hardware upgrades but even there there will be 30-40fps modes with ray tracing pushed like on PC.
With the advent of unlocked framerates at least on the mid Gen the hope is you can uncap any mode available
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Silent Hill trailer was not "played back" at 60 FPS. The trailer was originally broadcasted in 30 FPS because the entire livestream presentation was broadcasted in that framerate. It was 60 FPS footage being played at 30 FPS, not the other way around. There is no "speed up" or "interpolation" going on in the actual 60 FPS trailer.

Richard is simply wrong in this account. The industry has now trained its audience to expect 60 FPS modes and that expectation will have to be lived up to.


There were a lot of exceptions, actually. All the Forza Horizons ran at 30 FPS and most of the Need for Speed games did as well.
I obviously didn't help develop those games so I don't know the sacrifices made but there's usually a tradeoff. It's very hard to have all of your calculations done in only 16 milliseconds per frame, so 30 frames can be a huge benefit to devs
 
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Neo_game

Member
Lets wait till there be any games actually supporting the most advanced things new consoles have.
Non of the games designed around Direct Storage, SFS n ext. came out.
We really haven't seen what those machines can do cos Devs need pretty substantial change in the workflow n code base to actually do that while dropping last gen n lots of PC user base.
So they are waiting for as long as possible n you can clearly see that

Those things will help but it can't make 30fps games 60fps. I think the 40fps is going to replace 30fps at best and for fast paced games there will be a 60fps option by they can't go lower than 1080p lol.
 

njean777

Member
Because console players hate being given performance choices. They hate spending hours fiddling with settings. Just launch the game and start playing, that’s the point of console
BS, having one toggle is not the same as having a bunch on PC. Give me either performance or graphics mode and be done, which is what a lot of console games do already.
 

Rykan

Gold Member
I obviously didn't help develop those games so I don't know the sacrifices made but there's usually a tradeoff. It's very hard to have all of your calculations done in only 16 milliseconds per frame, so 30 frames can be a huge benefit to devs
Oh there was a trade of. Last generation had an influx of open world races. Almost all the Need for Speed games were open world, so that's basically why so many of them ran at 30 instead of the usual 60 that is common for racers.
 
Compared to the jaguar cores in last gen consoles, they are powerful. A few years old cpu architecture for desktops and notebooks is massively better than mobile cores meant for cheap windows tablets.
Still was immediately outdated upon release unlike the gpu
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If Xbox Series Z comes out I'll get it assuming it's not a crazy price. Selling consoles is sellers market last few years. I dumped my One X with an extra controller and some super old games which were already on GP for $450 cdn. Nuts. I probably could had got $400 for it straight up. If I can get this for Series X when mid gen refreshes come Ill take it.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Still was immediately outdated upon release unlike the gpu

One could say the same about the GPU considering it’s ray tracing performance compared to nvidia hardware. The CPU cores are fine for the GPUs in current consoles especially since they are lifted from the burden of having to decompress data.
 

A.Romero

Member
Because console players hate being given performance choices. They hate spending hours fiddling with settings. Just launch the game and start playing, that’s the point of console
It's net like it doesn't work if you don't want to change anything. Default settings should fit someone that doesn't want options perfectly.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
It's net like it doesn't work if you don't want to change anything. Default settings should fit someone that doesn't want options perfectly.

Some people couldn’t resist adjusting the setting if it is available though.
 

PeteBull

Member
i dont see why its going to become the normal yet pc versions with a lesser cpu will be 60fps....pathetic.
Current gen consoles cpu's is only equivalent to downclocked r7 3700x, man, vs ryzen 7k series and 13th gen intel, even entry lvl, its at least 3x weaker same vs previous gen top cpu from amd 5800x3d and intels 12900k, so it will be normal in a year or two for 30fps console game vs 60fps pc port.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Of course 30 fps is going to become the norm for these current consoles and its the very reasons we need these pro consoles in our hands sooner rather than later
Nah, let them prep a better XSX2 and PS6 and then you will have more 60+ FPS games again in the initial cross generation period and for BC titles. Also we do not wait as long for a proper next generation bump and we get a better next generation one too ;).
 
LOL at the so-called gamers on here....

30 and 60 FPS mixture are a fact of console gaming even in the so-called glory days of PS2 or 16 bit gaming.
I have no issues with story based games going all out for graphics and running at 30 FPS.
 

H4ze

Member
Feeling sad for that says a lot about your kind.
Please enlighten me, what is "my kind" xD I am playing consoles since the mid 90s and I build my own PCs for almost 20 years now.

So yes, I bet a lot of people "like me" would prefer to see an improvement in frame count after all these years, enjoy your "cinematic" experience and crappy versions.

I am allowed to dislike this shit, you know?
 

Whitecrow

Gold Member
Please enlighten me, what is "my kind" xD I am playing consoles since the mid 90s and I build my own PCs for almost 20 years now.

So yes, I bet a lot of people "like me" would prefer to see an improvement in frame count after all these years, enjoy your "cinematic" experience and crappy versions.

I am allowed to dislike this shit, you know?
Wow you asking for respect while disrespecting. Yeah, that's your kind right there.
 

H4ze

Member
Wow you asking for respect while disrespecting. Yeah, that's your kind right there.
Well, I am not the one who started it, so shove it up your ass honey

Edit: you know what, I am sorry, it's not worth fighting over something like this in a rude manner
 
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