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Returnal director says Housemarque could ‘do more’ to make games more accessible but making them too easy may lessen the impact of the narrative

A.Romero

Member
Well, great devs can make multiple difficulty options. Not everyone has enough time to git gud.

That said it's not a must. It's up to the dev but as long as the studio is capable I don't see what's wrong with multiple options. Whoever wants a harder game can have it. I think God of War 2018 is a good sample of this.
 

Three

Member
I don't get this hate for accessibility to be honest. I mean I've seen people saying "so what if somebody cheats in an online game let them do it" but heaven forbid there is an easy mode in their single player game they can use?
Where is the logic in that? As long as that accessibility mode isn't the default the game was balanced to then what is the problem with an easy mode people can use? Is it some crazy gatekeeping thing?
 
Elden Ring already proved that you dont really have to do much for accessibility if your game gets good ratings.

Pretty much any call for accessibility or difficulty with elden ring was quickly drowned out
 

tommib

Member
The problem with Returnal isn’t the difficulty.

It’s the fact it’s boring.
That killed me. All games are so boring after playing a run in Returnal. It’s a gamer’s game. All gameplay. All arcade. It’s like everything’s in slow motion after you play it . Your sir take the cake for the most nonsense.

Love to see Ricky liking your post. 🥰 Those BAFTA awards still sting I see.
 
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Sounds like a lot of bullshit justification for why their game is difficult or are they honestly telling me a really skilled player who can skate by in game is having their narrative experience ruined. Come on...

And btw, no one is asking for every game to be for everyone, we all know that. That's impossible. Having difficulty sliders for more people to enjoy IS possible and should be a goal for all games. This concept of "you can only enjoy the game this way" does not exist for even your own hardcore fans of the game. Gamers come in a massive variety including how they get satisfaction from something. A devs vision means jack shit to what I find enjoy and honestly how I experience things.
 

Ogbert

Member
That killed me. All games are so boring after playing a run in Returnal. It’s a gamer’s game. All gameplay. All arcade. It’s like everything’s in slow motion after you play it . Your sir take the cake for the most nonsense.

Love to see Ricky liking your post. 🥰 Those BAFTA awards still sting I see.
Bit cringe.

I’m mid 40s. I’ve been playing arcade games for decades. Love Housemarque as a developer. I think Returnal is a good first stab at a genre crossover they might perfect at a later stage.
 

Notabueno

Banned
Absolute bullshit.

First of all Returnal being a rogue has nothing to do with Souls game: it starts difficult specifically because the difficulty is what makes you learn the game and lower the difficulty as you learn, understand and unlock intricacies. It works great for Spelunky, Swords of Ditto, Biding of Isaac etc...

However it does ruins the narrative experience and is a lazy design choice in lots of games (not saying it's the case of Returnal).

Souls difficulty just started with bad design accident and is unnecessary, the game was successful because of the great art, experience and narrative.
 
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ReBurn

Gold Member
This is one game where I can see how that could be true. The narrative is largely stolen from that Tom Cruise movie where he had to keep dying and starting over to learn how to defeat the enemy creature. It's not really that original.

I disagree that the main character has to die that many times though.
 

Knightime_X

Member
Source: VGC

I feel like we need to separate the concepts of accessibility and difficulty. These concepts don't always go hand in hand. Games like Returnal or Souls aren't supposed to be easy...

We need to realize not all games are for everyone and that's okay.

People nowadays wouldn't survive gaming in the 90's...
90's games had built in cheats, and game genie.
Also even the hardest games had difficulty settings.

Gaming in the 90's was good for a reason.
 
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Chronos24

Member
Am I the only one who doesn't bitch about difficulty? The difficulty is what makes the game great in my opinion. Not saying I want every game like a souls game but the games that are MEANT to be difficult should stay that way. If you suck then..well...git gud. But seriously
 

Solarstrike

Member
Any game which causes the majority of it's player base to become upset, angry, pissed off, frustrated, panties in a bunch, is not a game at all. It's a mental exam in which you are the patient. Succeed and be redeemed. Fail and remain an ass. Quit and become nothing
 

Knightime_X

Member
Yeh and there are plenty of games out there that they can still play.

Not everything can be for everyone, it's a road to nowhere.
Yet there are games that do this.
If Ghouls n ghost Resurrection and R-type final 2 can do it why can't others?

Answer: elitist mentality refuses to allow it.
Some developers are good guy greg, others scumbag steve.
 

BLAUcopter

Gold Member
The problem with Returnal isn’t the difficulty.

It’s the fact it’s boring.
dr steve brule confusion GIF
 

GHG

Member
Yet there are games that do this.
If Ghouls n ghost Resurrection and R-type final 2 can do it why can't others?

Answer: elitist mentality refuses to allow it.
Some developers are good guy greg, others scumbag steve.

It's up to the developers and if they only want to invoke certain emotions and experiences then so be it. Their game, their rules, your money, your choice.

Typically you don't see people with disabilities crying about this kind of stuff, it's the fully able bodied individuals who don't have a single ounce of determination, resilience or common sense about them.
 

sol_bad

Gold Member
I have a retarded mongaloid right arm that I can barely use properly, basically play one handed. I love difficult games.

I'm so sick of these able handed people whining about difficulty, it's frustrating.

I had to forgo playing great cames on the Wii because I simply couldn't play it. I still didn't bitch or moan about it's control scheme, I just accepted that it wasn't a console for me.
 

Knightime_X

Member
It's up to the developers and if they only want to invoke certain emotions and experiences then so be it. Their game, their rules, your money, your choice.
This is fair. Dumb, but fair.

Typically you don't see people with disabilities crying about this kind of stuff, it's the fully able bodied individuals who don't have a single ounce of determination, resilience or common sense about them.
I'm just old and already got gud.
Problem is, I don't have the time or patience to stay gud, and I'll be damned if I let some developers tell me how I should play.
I'll buy the pc version and use cheats.
I don't care. I just want to play that game and enjoy it no matter what it takes.

Devs should be thankful I'm even giving them money.
 
Its so funny to see the dichotomy of convo surrounding games right now.

On one hand people say they are tired of ubi-lite games and that more devs need to take risks and be bold when designing their games. Games today are too “design by committee” (game critics new favorite phrase) but then they go on to make a laundry list of things games that don’t adhere to a massive audience need to do to be more welcoming to a more people.

So, its like fuck games for being too safe, and also kind of fuck games for not considering enough people.
 
Make it challenging.

Just remove roguelike elements and I will gladly buy it.

Just don't enjoy idea of completing game in a sitting and you start over if you die.

Makes it unnecessary repetitive.
 

GHG

Member
This is fair. Dumb, but fair.


I'm just old and already got gud.
Problem is, I don't have the time or patience to stay gud, and I'll be damned if I let some developers tell me how I should play.
I'll buy the pc version and use cheats.
I don't care. I just want to play that game and enjoy it no matter what it takes.

Devs should be thankful I'm even giving them money.

Well they've kind of made it clear they don't want/need your money based on how they've decided to design the game, so if you want to still go ahead and reward them for a type of game that typically wouldn't be of interest to you then it's your choice really.

Its so funny to see the dichotomy of convo surrounding games right now.

On one hand people say they are tired of ubi-lite games and that more devs need to take risks and be bold when designing their games. Games today are too “design by committee” (game critics new favorite phrase) but then they go on to make a laundry list of things games that don’t adhere to a massive audience need to do to be more welcoming to a more people.

So, its like fuck games for being too safe, and also kind of fuck games for not considering enough people.

Some of these guys don't really know what they want from games. Either that or they treat games like checklist tasks and want to rush through as many games as possible, tougher games aren't really conducive to that.
 
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kungfuian

Member
Save-scummed my way through Returnal and playing it as a more linear style game didn't interfere or lessen the impact of the story at all. I know it's not what they intended but I am not particularly good at this type of game, starting a game all the way from the beginning over and over again seems unnecessarily punishing, and I can't stand randomized shuffled level bullshit.

By the way I loved my save-scummed experience with Returnal and think this guy might be out of touch with how inaccessible they have made their game. It's too bad too because Returnal, what ever way you play it, is one of the best experiences I've had on my PS5 sitting right next to Demon Souls and Elden Ring.

I know it's hard to imagine for more skilled players but not everyone is capable of achieving the same skill in games. Providing more options for gamers of different skill levels does not automatically equal compromised creative vision.
 
Save-scummed my way through Returnal and playing it as a more linear style game didn't interfere or lessen the impact of the story at all. I know it's not what they intended but I am not particularly good at this type of game, starting a game all the way from the beginning over and over again seems unnecessarily punishing, and I can't stand randomized shuffled level bullshit.

By the way I loved my save-scummed experience with Returnal and think this guy might be out of touch with how inaccessible they have made their game. It's too bad too because Returnal, what ever way you play it, is one of the best experiences I've had on my PS5 sitting right next to Demon Souls and Elden Ring.

I know it's hard to imagine for more skilled players but not everyone is capable of achieving the same skill in games. Providing more options for gamers of different skill levels does not automatically equal compromised creative vision.

You beat the game because you figured out how to cheat it. You should feel a sense of pride that you managed to outsmart it, thats part of the experience.

All the other scrubs can do the same
 
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Knightime_X

Member
It's all about wanting to play something that interest you.
How you want to experience a game is and should always be entirely subjective.

Playing something by making it too easy isn't any better than being frustrated and not having fun.
But the only one who should worry about that is the one holding the controller. That's on them how they want to experience it.
Not some keyboard nanny who wants to think for them.

If they had fun then nothing else matters.
 
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Challenge can be had with robust no bs mechanics, see Resogun for example. Easy to get into, harder to master. Im fine with that.

One hit kill enemies, controller read out, delayed specific animations etc. are just there to make a game hard/annoying to please cunts on the internet so that they can say "Im a hardcore gamer, everyone else get gud". It's the equivalent of Call of Duties prestige mechanic. I hate it. It needs to go away.

Fair, predictable and robust mechanics increases accessibility and leave a competent developer free to make the experience as hard as they want. As soon as they use cheap tricks (no save mechanics etc) to make a game hard they can get fucked.
 
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[Sigma]

Gold Member
No I wouldn't make it easier just to please folks if you think it would effect what would you were trying to achieve from a vision perspective. Im for more accessibility options for people with disabilities as long as you think can achieve it. And now i'll talk about Returnal for a second. Above all else im a big proponent of the creator's vision whether the game is difficult or not. And they had one for Returnal that they executed on.

I originally loved this game for all the feelings it evoked in me while playing, that includes the fact that I may have to start over if I die. As far as im concerned they given up more than enough on that end. Too much imo. You've lowered the difficulty by nerfing the enemies and their(enemy) spawns. Not only that, you've given them saves.

Funny enough, it didn't increase your sells. 90% of the people bitching in their twitter feed saying they wouldn't buy until "enter complaint" was in the game ended up not buying it after they got what they wanted. Then they conveniently want a price drop. What price? who really knows! Probably none that will make you money. It's a never ending battle these days. When I see interviews like this, I think to myself myself a lot of times he's already cracking. Which will affect what he does in the future and that's a shame to me. You can't please everybody so stop trying.
 
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Airola

Member
Games shouldn't be made to be beaten by default anyway.
They should be made as things that beat you by default.
And it's up to you to choose if you are willing to try to beat it.

If you can't beat the game, that's ok. The game did what it was supposed to do. It gave a challenge. You tried to overcome the challenge but failed. It's ok to fail.

If you want to try again, great!
If you don't want to try again, that's fine too.

Learn to lose and learn to accept that some stories end with the hero failing, and you will have a lot more games that you enjoy.
 
DON'T. Returnal was challenging at first but once you know how to stack parasites/buffers it really becomes pretty easy as long as you are quick and Accurate.

If anything you can make it a little harder but just add more content next time.

Really good game overall.
I wouldn't say that the game ever got "pretty easy", and I platinumed it. It is a very challenging game
 

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
If from games were easy it would be garbage.
It actually true, at least it would lose a lot of its appeal, just started NG+ and blowing every bosses too easy is a bit too boring, NG+ usually are easy but i feel Elden Ring is even easier than other FS games when it comes to NG+, haven't reached Radahn or specially Melinia yet she may give me some challenge tho.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The game was very frustrating at first but once it clicked (I got the rotgland lobber), then it got very approachable and full run went from 5 hours to 40 minutes. Love the game

What do you mean by "full run"?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I don't understand why every game should appeal to every gamer. I'm not crying around because some games are too easy or too hard. I'm not crying around because I suck at fighting games or racing games.

If I know I won't enjoy a game, I simply don't play it. It's not like there aren't tons of alternatives.



Well there is that "Cloudy with a chance of Dinosaurs" game from Capcom you could look forward to.

THIS!!!
 

McCarth

Member
I agree with him but I also don't see how you can't include options if desired. Even putting it behind a wall like has been done in the past (doesn't unlock until you die a certain amount of times before progressing, etc.).
 

proandrad

Member
I just don’t think developers should be making rogue like games if they have a triple A budget. Bloodborne handle it well by having the regular game and the roguelike chalice dungeon. Always felt like roguelike games were a way for lower budget games to have more content to them.
 
I agree with him but I also don't see how you can't include options if desired. Even putting it behind a wall like has been done in the past (doesn't unlock until you die a certain amount of times before progressing, etc.).
This could be a solution, but then you don’t get any trophy’s and your character automatically wears a little pink hat. Also the enemies will try to kill you with confetti guns and when you kill them they laugh “teehee that tickles!”.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
People who die too much to ever finish the game don’t understand the narrative… but would still die enough with easy mode to understand the narrative.

People who die enough in normal mode and finish it will understand the narrative… and can just keep playing in normal mode and don’t have to ever touch easy mode.

This has been done for ages. What’s different here? (Haven’t played Returnal, waiting on the new PS+ release)
 
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