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Returnal aims to "create unlimited replay value" for PS5 gamers

kuncol02

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I think thats just on a more strict description. Lots of rogue games with real time combat nowadays are treated as roguelike.
If real time games are counted as roguelikes then Diablo 2 with hardcore character is roguelike. How something can be "rogue like" if it's nothing like Rogue?
 

Guilty_AI

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If real time games are counted as roguelikes then Diablo 2 with hardcore character is roguelike. How something can be "rogue like" if it's nothing like Rogue?
Just saying how the definition its treated nowadays.
One could argue The Witcher 3 and Deus Ex aren't RPGs if they wanted to, doesn't change they have a RPG tag slapped on their cover and almost everyone treat them as such.
 
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I want to talk to your manager right fucking NOW

 
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Onestly? I'm gonna be already happy if the game has half of hades replay value...

I hope it has far better replay value than Hades. The game is great, but not because of its replay value. It is actually very poor in that regard when compared to other roguelike games like Gungeon, B of I, and Dead Cells
 
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VictorVectors

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And Playstation has Karen:
Jesus. Samus has been taking no prisoners at the gym. This is why people mod on PC.

Karen's a meme because she's a mockery of common sense and decency. Don't make her the friggin protagonist!

Also, take a look at the sales figure on Switch compared to PS and tell me if being that "woke" pays $$$

These companies are out to make $$$. I can only imagine where the market will bend towards over the next few years.
 

Moogle11

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This is likely a pass for me. Looking great for fans of roguelites/likes, but I’ve finally accepted the genre just isn’t for me. Even Hades, as good as it is, I really had to force my self to keep going and clear a run.

Replay value is at the bottom of the list of game features for me. Repetition just bores me. I just prefer games I can make steady progress through new content, see an ending and move on and never touch it again.
 
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Salmon Snake

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Because of the high price I'm gonna check few reviews before desiding if it's day one or wait for a sale (what a fucking smart thing to do and I hope this comment fills your hearts with happiness).
 
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stitch1

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I really wish Sony had something like Gamepass for games like this. I really like Housemarque games. This looks pretty good. However, I doubt I play it until WAY later when it comes down in price. It's just not worth $70 to me.
 

Moogle11

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I really wish Sony had something like Gamepass for games like this. I really like Housemarque games. This looks pretty good. However, I doubt I play it until WAY later when it comes down in price. It's just not worth $70 to me.
Yep. Having an XSX and Gamepass is going to save me a ton of money and disappointment from buying games like this that I’m mildly, at most, interested in just to fill the time between releases I’m actually stoked for.
 
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Astorian

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I really wish Sony had something like Gamepass for games like this. I really like Housemarque games. This looks pretty good. However, I doubt I play it until WAY later when it comes down in price. It's just not worth $70 to me.
So let me get this right, you really like the studio and the game looks pretty good but you think it’s not worth full price? You do you but I don’t see how it’s not worth a full price based on what you just said.
 
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The new gameplay footage shows the game off very well. Glad to see the dev's arcade roots are still strong, because this is honestly one of the most impressive games of the year in terms of gameplay, and looks to be a genuine skill-tester.

It's also the closest to a next-gen Platinum-style experience looks like we'll get on any of the consoles for a while. I'm glad to see a Western dev that can design combat in a way that looks and feels hard-hitting & stylish; usually that's the area Japanese devs like Capcom, Sega, Namco etc. tend to excel in.

So let me get this right, you really like the studio and the game looks pretty good but you think it’s not worth full price? You do you but I don’t see how it’s not worth a full price based on what you just said.

Because too many gamers today equate game length/amount of content with game status and whether it's "AAA" or not. Games that are genuine testers of player skill tend to not do well with wider audiences.

Kind of sad because I'm much rather sink my cash into something that's very pick-up-and-play, easy-to-learn/hard-to-master that demands perfecting skill from the player with a set design of very fun action, versus a lot of other AAA games with boring starts that feel mostly like tutorials, need you to sink in 3 hours to really get started, loaded with a bunch of options for play in lieu of a tighter core focused on challenge, and padded with tons of mundane side quests and content.

Plus at least the former model is easily more sustainable from a development and costs POV.
 
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GymWolf

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I hope it has far better replay value than Hades. The game is great, but not because of its replay value. It is actually very poor in that regard when compared to other roguelike games like Gungeon, B of I, and Dead Cells
Agree to disagree, it doesn't have a gigantic number of areas or bosses, but the amount of progression and unlockable stuff in hades is incredible.
 

Astorian

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I’d also like to add that it’s kinda sad seeing Returnal threads filled with people saying it’s not worth full price or looks like an indie game or that it’ll bomb, for one, how does a full price game look like exactly? Last I checked there is no mandatory style or budget for a game to be full priced.

It’s an AAA third person roguelike with a strong narrative (their words) combined with elements from the old Housemarque games that they are known for, I think it’ll be at least solid and something exciting and fresh for fans of the genre, as for the game bombing, I’d like to think that Sony is aware how this genre sells, personally I believe that Housemarque will be judged based on how the game will be received critically (and bought if it’s well).
 

iHaunter

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My most hyped PS5 game.

I think the sharp focus on shooting and mobility will give this some legs. I still enjoy playing older "roguelite shooters" like Strafe, Mothergunship, Everspace, and Risk of Rain 2 because the underlying mechanics are solid. I wouldn't say any of those games boast a TON of content nor the best graphics in the industry, but their gameplay keeps them interesting.

Roguelite is the future, hand-in-hand with f2p lootbox mp.
Hell no that's not the future. Single Player story-driven games are the ones breaking sales records.

You done lost yo mind.
 
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stitch1

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So let me get this right, you really like the studio and the game looks pretty good but you think it’s not worth full price? You do you but I don’t see how it’s not worth a full price based on what you just said.
You are correct. I like a lot of the games they made before and I think this looks great. But $70 is enough for me to hesitate buying because I could fill that time with games that are included in gamepass or included with PS+ or Games with Gold. I don't really like paying full price for games. Never have and at $70 I probably won't buy nearly as many this gen.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Hell no that's not the future. Single Player story-driven games are the ones breaking sales records.

You don't lost yo mind.
Minecraft is a firstperson roguelike and sold better than 99.9% of all games ever made. Handcrafted stories are giving way to "emergent" experiences in a lot of single-player games, especially the ones that lean more heavily on world-simulation, physics, NPC schedules, economic rules, AI behaviors and moods, etc.

I'm not praising it or condemning the trend either, but I do think it's going to characterize the next decade (or two) of mainstream gaming.
 

iHaunter

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Minecraft is a firstperson roguelike and sold better than 99.9% of all games ever made. Handcrafted stories are giving way to "emergent" experiences in a lot of single-player games, especially the ones that lean more heavily on world-simulation, physics, NPC schedules, economic rules, AI behaviors and moods, etc.

I'm not praising it or condemning the trend either, but I do think it's going to characterize the next decade (or two) of mainstream gaming.
That's not even remotely close to the same thing.

Minecraft is hardly just a "Roguelike", it's a level building game as well.
 
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Moogle11

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Minecraft is a firstperson roguelike and sold better than 99.9% of all games ever made. Handcrafted stories are giving way to "emergent" experiences in a lot of single-player games, especially the ones that lean more heavily on world-simulation, physics, NPC schedules, economic rules, AI behaviors and moods, etc.

I'm not praising it or condemning the trend either, but I do think it's going to characterize the next decade (or two) of mainstream gaming.
I think the two trends will coincide as we're seeing both emergent things be huge and also things like Sony's cinematic, narrative-driven first person games sell well.

I hope so anyway, I have zero interest in emergent stuff and that becoming super dominant would just have me drop modern gaming and spend more time on movies, shows and books as consuming linear stories is my true hobby.
 
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Guilty_AI

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I’d also like to add that it’s kinda sad seeing Returnal threads filled with people saying it’s not worth full price or looks like an indie game or that it’ll bomb, for one, how does a full price game look like exactly? Last I checked there is no mandatory style or budget for a game to be full priced.

It’s an AAA third person roguelike with a strong narrative (their words) combined with elements from the old Housemarque games that they are known for, I think it’ll be at least solid and something exciting and fresh for fans of the genre, as for the game bombing, I’d like to think that Sony is aware how this genre sells, personally I believe that Housemarque will be judged based on how the game will be received critically (and bought if it’s well).
Problem is, people can play similar games (possibly better ones too) at a much lower cost.

Given price and production, this is aimed at the mainstream public that doesn't necessarely enjoys this sort of game. It remains to be seen if it'll caught on.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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That's not even remotely close to the same thing.

Minecraft is hardly just a "Roguelike", it's a level building game as well.
What? It's well known that Notch and the dev team drew inspiration from roguelikes such as Dwarf Fortress and Nethack. Minecraft helped popularize the idea of getting dumped into a randomized permadeath world, build upon rules that governed the players and the mobs. It was definitely more focused on building than on survival or RPG-ing but it's definitely cut from the same cloth.
I think the two trends will coincide as we're seeing both emergent things be huge and also things like Sony's cinematic, narrative-driven first person games sell well.

I hope so anyway, I have zero interest in emergent stuff and that becoming super dominant would just have me drop modern gaming and spend more time on movies, shows and books as consuming linear stories is my true hobby.
I see the emergent gameplay stuff as a spiritual successor to the arcade spirit. It's intended to keep the games interesting (even if superficially) and challenging, encouraging you to keep coming back until your grasp of the game systems are better than its ability to kill you with them. I don't think linear games are going anywhere but neither are roguelikes.
 

Moogle11

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I see the emergent gameplay stuff as a spiritual successor to the arcade spirit. It's intended to keep the games interesting (even if superficially) and challenging, encouraging you to keep coming back until your grasp of the game systems are better than its ability to kill you with them. I don't think linear games are going anywhere but neither are roguelikes.

Agreed that both will stick around. That's the beauty of gaming these days as there's plenty of room for all types of games between all the consoles, PCS, AAA games and indies.

Arcade games were never my jam. Even in the NES and SNES day it was things like Final Fantasy, linear game play games like Super Mario Bros etc. that got me into gaming. I never really liked playing arcade games, or arcade style console games to try and get high scores etc. I've always either wanted a mostly linear story driven experience, or a linear, beatable gameplay focused experience like a platformer.

I've just never really been one to seek out challenge or sense of accomplishment from gaming or my other hobbies. That's what my career (and education prior), the gym etc. are for. Hobby time I want to veg out, turn my brain mostly off and escape for a while.
 
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Moogle11

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Problem is, people can play similar games (possibly better ones too) at a much lower cost.

Given price and production, this is aimed at the mainstream public that doesn't necessarely enjoys this sort of game. It remains to be seen if it'll caught on.
Yeah I'm definitely curious to see how this sales.

For me I definitely think I'm probably done buying these types of games. It's things like Sony first party games, some MS and Nintendo ones, some third party things like Final Fantasy, RDR, Mass Effect and so on that have long been my main interest and things I was fine shelling out for. I'd just end up buying things like this just to fill the void as there aren't nearly enough of those big AAA story-driven games (and some gameplay focused ones that interest me from Nintendo etc.) to keep me busy with how much I game and the free time I have. Now there's gamepass, PS+ games, Epic freebies etc. so I don't need to spend money on things I'm not stoked for as I can just check out games there to fill those voids.

That said, that's just me and I don't know that that will hurt sales much for these kind of games. I think there's a decent market of people who want these kind of games as they aren't big on the story-driven stuff as well as people who just like owning their games and don't care about subscription services. Time will tell though.
 
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Astorian

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Problem is, people can play similar games (possibly better ones too) at a much lower cost.
Not sure I agree with this, Dead Cells and this might fall in the same genre but I wouldn’t call them similar at all.
 

INC

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Has a bullet hell vibe

Is this deemed AAA? is it £70?
 

Guilty_AI

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Not sure I agree with this, Dead Cells and this might fall in the same genre but I wouldn’t call them similar at all.
Its definitely very similar to Risk of Rain 2, which costs 1/3 of the price and has a more focused experience.

Stretching the concept a bit you could also go for games like Bullets per Minute and Void Bastards
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Sony tried AAA roguelike with Bloodborne and people booed. I hope people give this a shot (making an assumption that it's good, of course) because chalice dungeon modes should've caught on with other AAA games to extend their lifespan/variability.
 

iHaunter

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What? It's well known that Notch and the dev team drew inspiration from roguelikes such as Dwarf Fortress and Nethack. Minecraft helped popularize the idea of getting dumped into a randomized permadeath world, build upon rules that governed the players and the mobs. It was definitely more focused on building than on survival or RPG-ing but it's definitely cut from the same cloth.

I see the emergent gameplay stuff as a spiritual successor to the arcade spirit. It's intended to keep the games interesting (even if superficially) and challenging, encouraging you to keep coming back until your grasp of the game systems are better than its ability to kill you with them. I don't think linear games are going anywhere but neither are roguelikes.
Minecraft definitely did NOT help popularize the Rogue-like concept. The games that came long before did.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Minecraft definitely did NOT help popularize the Rogue-like concept. The games that came long before did.
Which ones? Genuinely curious, because I grew up loving angband and Nethack, ADOM, Diablo, Mystery Dungeon series, Disgaea, Dwarf Fortress, and plenty of other roguelikes and games with roguelite mechanics. I also enjoyed the awkward era of tilesets and quasi-3d engines getting pasted on top of the ascii roguelikes to "modernize" them slightly. To me, Minecraft is the first big mass market roguelike/lite since Diablo.
 

Umbral

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$70 is a hard pill to swallow on this one. I don’t like roguelikes in general, but I think I might like this one. Repeating the same thing over and over with no movement is just boring if it’s not in the aim of eventually breaking the repetition.
 
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Slow rollout of info has started. Loving it.

Shortcuts suggest the level design isn't too linear... more Souls like.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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rogueli(k/t)e
I understand why this is kinda necessary nowadays, but it is an abomination. Banished to a randomized dungeon to kick the stairs for 100 turns.

Why can't we have some common-sense names for genres anymore?? Feels like a complete free for all nowadays. That's not aimed at you, just shouting at clouds.
 

Guilty_AI

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I understand why this is kinda necessary nowadays, but it is an abomination. Banished to a randomized dungeon to kick the stairs for 100 turns.

Why can't we have some common-sense names for genres anymore?? Feels like a complete free for all nowadays. That's not aimed at you, just shouting at clouds.
I blame Warren Spector
 
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iHaunter

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Which ones? Genuinely curious, because I grew up loving angband and Nethack, ADOM, Diablo, Mystery Dungeon series, Disgaea, Dwarf Fortress, and plenty of other roguelikes and games with roguelite mechanics. I also enjoyed the awkward era of tilesets and quasi-3d engines getting pasted on top of the ascii roguelikes to "modernize" them slightly. To me, Minecraft is the first big mass market roguelike/lite since Diablo.
Diablo in my opinion set the stage and popularized Rouge-like games. Diablo II + LOD made an even bigger impact, in my personal opinion of course.

Minecraft is too open-ended of a genre to be considered Rouge-like in my mind.
 
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