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Report: Sony overhauling PlayStation Plus with new tiers and streaming

yurinka

Member
That would be the equivalent of GP Ultimate, not base.
Basically they are replicating this:
Tier 1: Gold
Tier 2: Gamepass (current gen download only, no streaming)
Tier 3: Gamepass Ultimate (Gold + download & streaming Gamepass games with extra games from legacy platforms + a few extras like extended demos)

But I'd bet Sony would have the entire catalog of their tier 3 available to stream in all platforms and would include PS Plus/Gold in the tier 2 too.
 

MScarpa

Member
Sony was "doing it" in 2014. And you've only been a member here since April of this year.
I apologize for being on my new account. I've been on GAF since the Denis Dyack/ Too Human fiasco. Good to hear subscription services are okay now. 😉
 

yurinka

Member
We know the numbers. It's bad, and they're gonna hide it inside ps+
Yes, I assume that like MS, Google, Amazon, Nvidia and so on they are going to hide their streaming numbers. But right now we don't know if there is a more popular streaming service because none of them shown their numbers. Sony instead has been pretty transparent until now, this is from their IR Day 2021 back in May:

image.png


In 2019 they started to do some improvements like opening in some additional countries, improving their tech, adding more games, more appealing pricing etc and they started to experience a great growth. In the near future since then (May 2021) they planned to continue improving it beyond this merging with PS Plus: adding more countries, including it in additional devices (smartphones, tablets, tvs...), bigger deals, to continue improving its streaming tech (streaming over 5G with additional specific optimizations, better image quality and latency, etc), to continue improving its catalog etc.

It's a 2016 patent, probably for the PS4 BC included in PS5, or for the PSP remasters for PS4 that run in an emulator and put improvements on top. As it was the case with Loco Roco Remastered, Patapon Remastered, Parappa The Rapper Remastered etc.
 
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MScarpa

Member
What happened to your old account?



Now? PS+ as a subscription service was "okay" back in the PS3 days and that was before it was required for online.
You must not have gotten the memo. Game "rental" services as they say, are terrible for gamers, you don't "own" anything. If you've been here for awhile you'd know what I'm talking about. Point is, Sony is going to take this seriously. ( They started to in last 6 months or so IMO ) And now you will see certain people (who survived the ban hammer) will hop on board like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If i have some down time today, I'll dig up some of these posts for you and tag you so you can see what I'm talking about.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
You must not have gotten the memo. Game "rental" services as they say, are terrible for gamers, you don't "own" anything. If you've been here for awhile you'd know what I'm talking about. Point is, Sony is going to take this seriously. ( They started to in last 6 months or so IMO ) And now you will see certain people (who survived the ban hammer) will hop on board like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If i have some down time today, I'll dig up some of these posts for you and tag you so you can see what I'm talking about.

No, don't bother. These console warrior arguments really don't interest me. And even if they did, seems awfully convenient that you can dig up old posts but others can't dig up yours since you are on a new account.
 

MScarpa

Member
No, don't bother. These console warrior arguments really don't interest me. And even if they did, seems awfully convenient that you can dig up old posts but others can't dig up yours since you are on a new account.
👌 No worries, good luck.
 

yurinka

Member
Services like these aren't profitable for years. They need a really large user base over time and than they get profitable and you have bound a large group of users on your system that might still buy games.
Just look at services like netflix. It took years to get where they are now and now they invest even more money so they can get profitable again.
To be profitable what they need is to have more revenue than costs.

The Netflix comparision doesn't make a lot of sense: as of now a console game-like centric gaming subscription isn't realistic to achieve 200M+ streaming subs as Netflix has, because streaming games is way more complex and way more expensive than to stream tv shows and movies: latency is way more important in games and games take way more resources in the servers than videos, which means they need way more servers and to be way closer to their customers, which means the gaming subscriptions can't focus on streaming only. On top of that, AAA productions are way more expensive in games than in movies and tv shows, they need to focus on other revenue sources to keep them profitable.

Sony's game subscriptions services part already is profitable, and their gaming division too mostly because they sell a ton of games for their console and because they include games in their subscription that already completed their sales cycle, which is their main revenue source. For them the subscription is an extra secondary revenue source to make their games more profitable.

Many people is skeptical with Game Pass becoming a profitable business because the cost of AAA is too high for the revenues that can offer a subscription that realistically can't reach hundreds of millions of subscribers because the aren't enough players who play console-like game players (~300M), and only a subset of them are can afford or want to pay for subs, and are in countries with quality to stream or have the proper hardware to play them locally. Putting their games day one in the subscription would seriously hurt sales, but instead should increase their revenue from DLC/IAP/Season Passes, so they are moving their main IPs like Halo or Forza Motorstorm to GaaS to I assume trying to compensate that, but not sure if will be enough. In order to make it work, I think they'll start moving their MP part of these GaaS to becoming F2P as they did with Halo in order to get more revenue from these microtransactions/DLC/Season Passes.

I assume it may end working, even if not becoming profitable being -as Phil Said- sustainable. And well, I assume that over years they'll keep tweaking and improving everything to a point it will become as you said profitable after some years. In the case of Sony, they already are profitable and generate a ton of revenue so don't need to change a lot of their current strategy.
 

yurinka

Member
So they grew from 13.1M to 18M between June 2020 and Jan 2021 (around +700k subs per month) then went completely flat for 8 months… almost immediately after launching new consoles.

I don’t think it happened that way but that’s off topic anyway.
It's what the official numbers say: their Game Pass subs at the end of June 2021 was basically the same than in January 2021 and at the end of September they didn't update their Game Pass subs number. I think what happened is that they continue getting new users at the same pace, but people who originally converted their remaining Gold months to GP Ultimate for $1 spent there and many of them didn't renew them. In addition to this, maybe some people joined it with other promotion and didn't renew after the promotion is over.

Or at least waited for the Horizon 5 and Halo releases to renew. Obviously Halo and Horizon should give it a big boost to grow. In my case I got 3 months of Game Pass PC for getting a year of Discord Nitro and didn't renew, but will get it again later this month to play Halo, Horizon 5 and Psychonauts 2.

That's a trivial patent. PS4 backwards compatibility in the PS5 works like that.
Seem it's a 2016 patent for the PS4 BC in PS5.
 
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kyliethicc

Member
i don’t believe anyone equates the two, psychologically or otherwise. Dramatically different price points with dramatically different value.
PS Now has always been the more comparable service.
You do realize Sony will be getting rid of Now and introducing more expensive tiers of Plus? So none of that will be true anymore.

That's the entire topic of this thread.
 

kensama

Member
Does someone think a hard emulation of PS1/Ps2/Ps3/PSP game could be possible?

I was thinking to this picture:
1r5Yh10.jpg




And maybe no need to cloud but the hardware of the PS5?
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Basically they are replicating this:
Tier 1: Gold
Tier 2: Gamepass (current gen download only, no streaming)
Tier 3: Gamepass Ultimate (Gold + download & streaming Gamepass games with extra games from legacy platforms + a few extras like extended demos)

But I'd bet Sony would have the entire catalog of their tier 3 available to stream in all platforms and would include PS Plus/Gold in the tier 2 too.

Not sure if you know what GamePass Ultimate is. GamePass is either PC or Xbox, separately. GamePass Ultimate is XBL Gold, PC GamePass, Xbox GamePass, and XCloud streaming all for $15. They basically give you a $5 discount with GamePass Ultimate.
 
What would "something different" be? The point and end goal of Gamepass is that you can play all the games available on any device you own whereever and whenever you want. How do you make things even more casual friendly?

This has been said over and over. We're waiting for MS to prove us wrong.

I am convinced that nobody outside of the current market for console will pay $10/month to play AAA games on their tablets or phone. But even among the console crowd, a gamepass model is a niche because there's only small gaming population that can play all those games. For most people it's not worth it.

Gamepass is already a hard sell among the gamer crowd. Among the casual crowd - it's as good as dead.
 
Can't you see how you're admitting it isn't profitable?

You are literally proving the point everyone is making to you. "In the hope of future profit". If you can't see how this means it is not currently making a profit, and instead is sustainable because of other revenue sources and cash in the bank can cover those loses, please quit this thread.
Are you not able to read? It's literally the opposite of "in the hope of future profit". I know the cope is real but Phil Spencer is speaking in plain English, he's not hard to understand. He literally says the opposite of what you and everyone here is saying.
 

yurinka

Member
It's really not THAT hard to make trophies for retro games; fans of actual retro games have been doing this for sometime with tools in certain emulators, and hosting them on sites like retroachievements. As long as you're online, any achievements you unlock in the game get recorded to your profile for that game. In something like RetroArch you just make sure the feature is turned on and you enter the profile you want to link, and you're generally set.

These are people with no money invested able to do this for hundreds of retro SNES, MegaDrive, PS1, PC-Engine, Dreamcast etc. games; it would be equivalent of a write-off for Sony to add trophies for PS1/2/3 and PSP/Vita games on this service, especially if they work with 3P publishers to do so. Of course there is also a middle-ground: launch a ton of games without trophies, and then update games gradually with trophy support (and while at it, for games where it'd make sense, online play networking).

If they're going to use the classic game catalog as an entity in itself to incentivize subscriptions (especially if they are provided without the option to download), they should go all-out and add some new features to these games to give them added value when modders on the retro scene have been doing it for decades, and smaller-market niche devices like Polymega can offer great CRT filters and aspect ratio options (something else worth providing at a system/service level for the classic catalog).
Yes, but unlike with Retroarch when done by Sony or a game publisher, it means they must pay someone decide which games they put there or to approve them, someone else to design the trophies, someone to implement them, and after that to test it, to certificate it and to get the different age ratings for different countries and markets, to pay their legal team to see what licenses have to pay to publish the game on a new platform and to pay licenses to whoever they have to pay for releasing games in a new system.

We also know it's possible to introduce trophies on emulated games because Sony patented it and inplemented it in games like Locoroco Remastered, Parappa Remastered, Patapon Remastered, etc.

Offtopic P.S.: I'm working on my own custom Retroarch overlays and shaders for my custom arcade cabinet, see GB, GBA, GBC, Lynx and Lynx in tate mode as examples. Older versions for 16:9: arcade (Versus City cabnet), WS, WS tate, WSC, WSC tate, NGP, NGPC, GG, Watara Supervision. I also overclocked the USB polling rate in the cabinet's of my controllers to 1000Hz and use Retroarch's anticipative input lag reduction setting the number of frames per game (I think it would be great if Retroarch would add the number of frames for each game to their database), and use Gsync+a proper GPU driver settings to get the best possible experience.

Otherwise there's not going to be a big enough interest in that particular part of the offering for nostalgic/retro fans who want a reason to play these games via streaming through subscription vs. playing them on an emulator on PC, real hardware or other game consoles, and most of the classic games there will lack amenities and QoL features to keep casuals and gamers who didn't grow up with the games interested longer-term.
I assume that considering their whole userbase, if they do a great job with the emulator, shaders, trophies and so on they could increase the interest from very low to low. But I think the most effective way to increase interest would be to add a ton of great games independently of the quality of the emulation and experience.

For sure, obviously it would be better to offer native local emulation in PS4 and PS5 with trophies, great emulation, shaders and so on. But also requires more work, paperwork and costs than maybe to add the PS1 and PSP they had released for PS3 to their list of PS Now streaming only games. Something that would offer an additional revenue and usage source for their PS3 PS Now servers. This wouldn't be as good as the best option, but pretty likely makes more sense for them business wise since the ones who would appreciate and care about the improvements of the best experience.
 

splattered

Member
I wonder how many people are gonna be upset when Jim and Phil hit the Game Awards stage to announce that GPU and Spartacus will be available on competing consoles via cloud streaming subscriptions? Xbox games on Playstation and Playstation games on Xbox. The world is about to UNITE!
 
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yurinka

Member
Not sure if you know what GamePass Ultimate is. GamePass is either PC or Xbox, separately. GamePass Ultimate is XBL Gold, PC GamePass, Xbox GamePass, and XCloud streaming all for $15. They basically give you a $5 discount with GamePass Ultimate.
Yes, basically the same Sony is going to do: their top tier would be basically a bundle of the current Plus and Now with some extra perks. With the difference Sony would keep their base Gamepass for download only (no streaming option) on their console only.

In Sony's case, in addition to bundle PS Plus and Now, this new tier would also add games from legacy platforms (PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP) and extended demos compared to the previous tier.

I wonder how many people are gonna be upset when Jim and Phil hit the Game Awards stage to announce that GPU and Spartacus will be available on competing consoles via cloud streaming subscriptions? Xbox games on Playstation and Playstation games on Xbox. The world is about to UNITE!
I think that in a generation or two we may see Game Pass on PlayStation if MS continues moving their focus to Game Pass and to becoming present in more platforms instead of focusing in their console alone, maybe even becomng a 3rd party publisher as they started to do with some game.

Sony instead is way more focused on their own console, by far their main revenue source, so I think they will continue focusing on it. This means wanting to keep Game Pass outside of their console until at least Sony's own subscription clearly dominates that market as they in many other areas (selling consoles, selling games for their console, generating revenue with their gaming division, etc). Sony will keep porting a few games to PC, expanding PS Now (or whatever is called this new tier when merged with PS Plus) to smartphones, tablets and smart tvs, and releasing some mobile games. But will keep their games and services console exclusive to keep increasing the revenue generated by their own consoles, which would continue using console exclusive games and services as main selling point.
 
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Rubik8

Member
The whole industry goes to shit if everything goes in this direction.

If you think the number of subpar, undercooked and flat out unfinished games is something now then prepare your butt.

It would crash the industry.
This is my fear and the #1 reason I don’t like the idea of these subscription services. More DLC and battle passes and other horseshit. And just because it’s Sony doesn’t mean I’ll bite.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Does someone think a hard emulation of PS1/Ps2/Ps3/PSP game could be possible?

I was thinking to this picture:
1r5Yh10.jpg




And maybe no need to cloud but the hardware of the PS5?

I don't think you understand what that image is. The PS5 is an AMD x86 CPU just like the PS4 was. It's a next generation AMD CPU, but it's from the same manufacturer and is still x86. That image shows that the Zen CPU that the PS5 has can switch to a Legacy mode to act like the older Jaguar CPU.

There's no way you can make an x86 CPU switch to a mode to act like a Cell CPU, Emotion Engine, or a LSI R3000.

The PS5 doesn't emulate the PS4, the CPU is able to run the games natively.
 
Nope, there’s also many big 3rd party games day one (MLB, Back4blood, Outriders e.t.c), new (not day one) games as well like Scarlet Nexus and honestly if your idea of an indie game are games like Stalker 2, A plague’s tale 2 or even The Gunk then you better hope that Sony’s service has such games day one or very close to day one.

As for sony’s service when it becomes the equilevant of gamepass then I will subscribe, don’t care about playing unoptimised (and streamed ?) ps1 games or extremely old games. I still doubt that they will be offering many if any at all ps5 games, at the beginning, even older ones.

For example Sony, at the very least, should be ready to offer games like Kena day one.
Valid points, but I just don’t think day one new releases for most games on Sony’s service at this point is realistic because of the insane cost of most AAA games. Sony can convince developers to release their games day one and pay an exorbitant price to do so, but pragmatically speaking how much money will the developers earn in the long run and what will Sony have to spend in order to do so?

Games like Back4Blood, MLB or Outriders being day one aren’t common and for good reason. Scarlet Nexus to my knowledge didn’t sell well on XBOX, so it became a good candidate for Gamepass which is usually the case for most other games that don’t perform so well. Sony first party games generally sell in the millions easily. Putting them on a day one subscription service imo will severely damage their sales. Same applies to most third party games. We are already seeing how it affects XBOX software sales which was already questionable in the first place.

If Sony ever does day one first party games, a sacrifice will have to be made either in production costs and possibly even game quality. There’s a reason why games like Halo Infinite as well as others are rumored to be going into a GAAS direction and the subscription model is most likely why. Consumers purchasing games will most likely be much more profitable for Sony and developers over cheaper subscriptions models that will require millions upon millions of active subscribers to make a profit or to break even. We’ll see what Sony has planned though.
 
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kensama

Member
I don't think you understand what that image is. The PS5 is an AMD x86 CPU just like the PS4 was. It's a next generation AMD CPU, but it's from the same manufacturer and is still x86. That image shows that the Zen CPU that the PS5 has can switch to a Legacy mode to act like the older Jaguar CPU.

There's no way you can make an x86 CPU switch to a mode to act like a Cell CPU, Emotion Engine, or a LSI R3000.

The PS5 doesn't emulate the PS4, the CPU is able to run the games natively.
I know that but from what i understood from Cerny presentatio he said the core of the GPU work like SPU on cell so for me they probably work on that and try to GPU to do same task than in CELL processor (which initially doesn't need a GPU because it was planned to put 2 CELL in PS3 one for CPU like task and the other for GPU task like.

 
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splattered

Member
Yes, basically the same Sony is going to do: their top tier would be basically a bundle of the current Plus and Now with some extra perks. With the difference Sony would keep their base Gamepass for download only (no streaming option) on their console only.

In Sony's case, in addition to bundle PS Plus and Now, this new tier would also add games from legacy platforms (PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP) and extended demos compared to the previous tier.


I think that in a generation or two we may see Game Pass on PlayStation if MS continues moving their focus to Game Pass and to becoming present in more platforms instead of focusing in their console alone, maybe even becomng a 3rd party publisher as they started to do with some game.

Sony instead is way more focused on their own console, by far their main revenue source, so I think they will continue focusing on it. This means wanting to keep Game Pass outside of their console until at least Sony's own subscription clearly dominates that market as they in many other areas (selling consoles, selling games for their console, generating revenue with their gaming division, etc). Sony will keep porting a few games to PC, expanding PS Now (or whatever is called this new tier when merged with PS Plus) to smartphones, tablets and smart tvs, and releasing some mobile games. But will keep their games and services console exclusive to keep increasing the revenue generated by their own consoles, which would continue using console exclusive games and services as main selling point.

Nah. You started out well but then your bias took over. Pretty much everyone in the industry sees at this point that there is a huge amount of money to be made via subscriptions. It really is the future. Even for Sony. People can still prefer a console but play other system's games on it happily. Just because they can play Xbox games on their PS5 it doesn't mean they no longer want to use a Sony console and DualSense controller. It just means they own and enjoy a Sony console, use and enjoy the Sony controller, and pay for subscriptions to several different gaming services. Everybody wins.
 

yurinka

Member
I still disagree that they would do it this way (running PS1 and PSP games under emulation on PS3, therefore limiting them to streaming). Let's consider the following points:

  • PS1 games have added input lag on PS3.
  • The only PSP games available on PS3 are Minis. While I personally like a lot of the Minis, I don't know if those are the games that immediately came to mind for most people when this article mentioned "PSP games".
Yes, obviously native offline emulation on PS4/PS5 would be better for many reasons and would open the door to several improvements. But as I mentioned, it would require more work/costs/paperwork. And not sure if Sony and the publishers would be interested on it when the amount of people interested on PS1 and PSP games is going to be relatively small. The streaming only option in addition to require less work/costs/paperwork would also work on PC and mobile.

Can't remember which ones were, but as I remember there were more PSP/Vita compatible games on PS3 in addition to the Minis. Not sure if were called PS Mobile or something like that.

There's also the option to include a native, local PS One and PSP emulator on thier PS Now PC and mobile client but again, it means more costs.

If we're talking licensing rights, then I'd suspect that Sony would have to negotiate streaming rights for whatever PS1 games and PSP games Minis that they intend to offer. If they have to go through all that hullabaloo, then they might as well just use emulation running on PS4. This would give many benefits, one of which is the ability to sell the games individually through the PlayStation Store (something that they could not do if restricted only to streaming). I'd guess that third parties would love to have the ability to rack up actual sales of the games from paying customers.
Yep, maybe. But I think it would be less painful than to negotiate rights to release games for a new console. If streaming, they wil be streaming existing & already published PS3 games so they would have already solved the 'releasing the game on a new console' paperwork and licensing for these games.

I think Sony and the publishers know the amount of people interested on PS One and PSP is relatively low. So won't want to spend a lot of work on it and will prefer an approach that would allow them to include the maximum amount possible of games and to bring them to the maximum amount of players possible while requiring them the minimum cost/effort/amount of headaches possible.

Nah. You started out well but then your bias took over. Pretty much everyone in the industry sees at this point that there is a huge amount of money to be made via subscriptions. It really is the future. Even for Sony. People can still prefer a console but play other system's games on it happily. Just because they can play Xbox games on their PS5 it doesn't mean they no longer want to use a Sony console and DualSense controller. It just means they own and enjoy a Sony console, use and enjoy the Sony controller, and pay for subscriptions to several different gaming services. Everybody wins.
Yes, there is a huge amount of money to be made with game subscriptions. Sony is the one making the biggest amount of money with game subscriptions and like the other ones year after year they keep increasing their subscribers. But it's still a very small portion of their revenue compared to the revenue they make with sales (of games, add-ons like DLC and MTX and consoles), which in case of Sony and Nintendo is also growing (MS doesn't detail their numbers so we don't know if it's the case too).

Which means that Sony and Nintendo will continue primarly betting on their own consoles and selling games and add-ons for them. And even if they will continue betting on subscriptions and tweaking them to improve their performance, these services will continue being something secondary for them. Sony and Nintendo are breaking gaming history records with their current strategies, so they have no reason to change them too much. And this means they will continue using (in many cases timed and or console) exclusivity of their games and services as selling point for their consoles.

MS saw they couldn't compete selling consoles and games for them, so expanded slowly moved their focus to PC, their main platform as corporation, and specially to subscriptions with an all in bet on Game Pass to see if they can dominate Sony at least in game subscriptions.

With this merge or PS Plus and PS Now, now Sony's and MS's game subscriptions will be more similar and comparable, with still some differences like the day one releases, the amount of games included there, different kind of availability on platforms etc. And in the amount of subscribers and money made, with Sony having a big lead.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
You do realize Sony will be getting rid of Now and introducing more expensive tiers of Plus? So none of that will be true anymore.

That's the entire topic of this thread.

And it's the Plus tier that includes Now that will be compared to Gamepass.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
I know that but from what i understood from Cerny presentatio he said the core of the GPU work like SPU on cell so for me they probably work on that and try to GPU to do same task than in CELL processor (which initially doesn't need a GPU because it was planned to put 2 CELL in PS3 one for CPU like task and the other for GPU task like.

That's not what he meant. He says it's similar in the way it works, not that you can make the PS5's AMD GPU act like an IBM Cell processor.
 

MScarpa

Member
This has been said over and over. We're waiting for MS to prove us wrong.

I am convinced that nobody outside of the current market for console will pay $10/month to play AAA games on their tablets or phone. But even among the console crowd, a gamepass model is a niche because there's only small gaming population that can play all those games. For most people it's not worth it.

Gamepass is already a hard sell among the gamer crowd. Among the casual crowd - it's as good as dead.
Tell me you hate gamepass without telling me you hate gamepass.
 

kensama

Member
That's not what he meant. He says it's similar in the way it works, not that you can make the PS5's AMD GPU act like an IBM Cell processor.
Yep but technology progressed and a ZEN 2 is by far more powerful than the CELL and it's the same for GPU.
For me ressources needed to emulate by hardware the PS3 seems feasible.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
For me ressources needed to emulate by hardware the PS3 seems feasible.

You don't emulate by hardware. Emulation is a software solution.

The PS5 is powerful enough to run a PS3 emulator (the PS4/PS5 already run a PS2 emulator), but the hardware itself cannot act like hardware of a completely different architecture. That's what a software emulator is for.
 
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kensama

Member
You don't emulate by hardware. Emulation is a software solution.

The PS5 is powerful enough to run a PS3 emulator (the PS4/PS5 already run a PS2 emulator), but the hardware itself cannot act like hardware of a completely different architecture. That's what a software emulator is for.
When i said by hardware, i was thinking especially to SPU of the CELL which can't be emulated by RDNA and previous GPU.
Now with the CORE of the RDNA 2, i think it's possible to allied Hardware and software solution based to make possible PS3 software emulation and downloaded directly game on PS5 without the need to pass via the cloud.
 
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sainraja

Member
EA Play shows you can sell games and still be on sub plan. Almost all of their games come to EA Play (the standard sub plan not the PC Origins Ultimate plan which has day one) about 9 months later.

Sports, shooters, ME and even smaller budget games like It Takes Two and Unravel are on EA Play.

Does FIFA, Madden and BF sales drop like a rock because everyone knows it'll come to EA's sub plan in less than a year? Doesn't seem so. Their entire catalog comes to EA Play later, so any value gamer will never have to buy a $60 AAA game or $20 Unravel ever again. Just wait. But gaming is a day one hyped industry. So there's enough gamers to buy day one, and then the stragglers play it dirt cheap for $30 during Best Buy sales or wait longer for sub plans.

Movies are no different. Just about every blockbuster movie comes out to one of the movie sub plans later. Everyone knows that. Does that mean nobody goes to theatres or buys a BR copy? Nope. Some go to the theatre, some buy a copy off Amazon, some wait for Netflix. Some overlap and do it all.

There's money to made off different people.
I wasn't really talking about sales. I was simply saying Sony's offering does not need to be 1:1 to Microsoft's in order for it to be competitive. They can adopt different methods. Subscription services are by no means a completely new thing as you have highlighted. Sony could do what EA does, or what Disney is doing with Plus.

Disney+ doesnt offer their biggest movies day one. Doesnt offer their shows in one go. They stretch them weeks unlike Netflix. They charged an extra 30$ for their AAA movies. It’s mostly back catalogue. With some strategic content here and there. At most one show per season.

It’s exactly like PSNow.

Playstation and Nintendo arent going to offer all their titles day one in their subscriptions until they stop selling 10+ million copies each. Excluding games like Destruction All Stars, Pacman 99, aka games that are risky or multiplayer centric.

I can see Sony releasing The Last of Us: Factions day one on PS+….+.
^^ This is kinda what I mean. Sony can adopt other methods for adding first party games to their sub services — by doing what Disney is. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
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sainraja

Member
No one was talking about it because it was a half-baked service and it existed prior to Gamepass. As of last reported, there were only around 5 million PS Now subscribers. That's pretty terrible.

It's clear that neither Sony or Nintendo want to play in this space right now, but Microsoft is gradually forcing their hand. MS is all in on Gamepass. That's going to be the future for them and their primary delivery model of choice. They've said as much on their most recent earnings call.
Sony wasn't fully committed to subscription services, yes. I do wonder if that was because of changing leadership. When Andrew House came on stage, he seemed committed but then (not sure what the market told them then) they didn't dive in or took the first step to lead the way.

Regardless, they might have just been taking the "wait and see" approach. Let Microsoft do the heavy lifting and then introduce your own "version" of it. And didn't EA start the whole subscribe to get access to our games thing in the gaming industry anyway?
 
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yurinka

Member
You do realize Sony will be getting rid of Now and introducing more expensive tiers of Plus? So none of that will be true anymore.

That's the entire topic of this thread.
Sony isn't getting rid of PS Now, they are expanding it and merging it with PS Plus. This new service will have 3 tiers:
-Tier 1: PS Plus
-Tier 2: Sony's base Game Pass + not sure if include PS Plus too
-Tier 3: PS Plus + PS Now + new stuff (PS1, PSP, PS5 games, extended demos)

What will blow this wide open is if they have Spartacus for PC. I would LOSE MY SHIT.
It tier 3, the PS Now one, will continue having its streaming part being playable in PC and PS consoles. In fact they are working to expand it to smartphones, tablets and smart tvs.

When i said by hardware, i was thinking especially to SPU of the CELL which can't be emulated by RDNA and previous GPU.
Now with the CORE of the RDNA 2, i think it's possible to allied Hardware and software solution based to make possible PS3 software emulation and downloaded directly game on PS5 without the need to pass via the cloud.
According to the developer of the RPCS3 emulator and a Sony's internal engine team programmer (plus programmer in PS3 Insomniac games) PS5 can't properly emulate SPE/SPUs, would need additional hardware to do emulate properly the games take full advantage of the PS3 hardware. The reason is that even if modern hardware can rival in peak performance still can't match PS3's SPU sustained perfomance, and don't have enough registers. A good portion of the PS3 catalog, which doesn't take full advantage of this hardware, can be emulated properly, specially in the newer Intel (not AMD/RDNA) hardware.
 
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yurinka

Member
Does someone think a hard emulation of PS1/Ps2/Ps3/PSP game could be possible?

I was thinking to this picture:

And maybe no need to cloud but the hardware of the PS5?
PS2 emulation is already implemented in many PS2 games they sell -or include in PS Now- for PS4 and PS5. PS1 and PSP is possible, and PS3 emulation for some games too. Emulation for some other PS3 games at full performance isn't possible unless they include extra hardware.

The easier, but the faster and cheapest way to get PS1, PSP and PS3 is to make it via streaming since they already alre implemented in the PS3 hardware they use in the PS Now servers. Having PS1 and PSP limited to their PS Now tier makes me think they will have PS1 and PSP via PS Now streaming, even if I'd personally prefer local, offline emulation.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Sony doesn't need to copy gamepass. PS Plus is already at 40 million subs without day one games. Offering a pool of games at a higher price will only increase the subscription while still banking on AAA blockbuster games.

But I can see some Sony games, especially the MP ones, releasing on the higher tier service day one.
You mean the forced online pay sub?
You take that shit, and almost half of those subs would be gone. Same for MS xbox live.

We saw gamepass and psnow numbers, which is low for the consoles they are in.
 

kingfey

Banned
I posted it here many moons ago. This is how Sony should do it.

PS+ Premium (target: gamers)
  • No Day and Date Release of first party AAA games.
  • Day and Date Release of AA Games.
  • Day and Date Release of first-party multiplayer games. (They did it with Destruction Allstars. They should continue with it.)
  • PS1/PS2/PS3/PS4 BC games.
  • Monthly games similar to how PSNow is currently.
  • Remove streaming and make it available in all countries.
SONY PASS (target: casuals)
  • Sony Movies & Shows + Funimation/Crunchyroll + Playstation Games (Not day 1)
  • Doesn't need backward compatible games. Casuals don't care for them.
  • All-streaming, not available for download.
You cant do that, do the cost. Movies arent cheap. Netflix alone is 12$. Add that to ps+ and psnow, and you are seeing close to 20$-30$ service fees.
You need to focus solely on gamers. Dont add movies, or else it would xbox one failure.
You also need to add streaming and downloads together. That is why psnow is shit. Most games are locked on streaming. Let the user pick how they want to play.
The advantage playstation has is the 1st party games. Make a sub that does day1 games at 20$ to 25$. Ps+, Psnow, and day1 games. People will sub to that service.
 

Loxus

Member
Does everyone think that this might not be sustainable?
Well PS Now been around since 2014, so it's obviously sustainable.

Merging PS+ & PS Now and making it tiered based is most likely all this is about.

This is how I understand the merger would look like, with no day one games and PS Plus free games may end.

12 Months Subscription
PS Now Plus
Tier¹: $59.99 (Value to the Gamer)
PS Plus benefits + Stream 45min Demos + Limited streamable/downloadable games.

PS Now Premium Plus
Tier²: $99.99 {Save $19.99}
PS Plus benefits + Stream 2hr Demos + Unlimited stream/download. New games added 6-12 months from launch.

PS Now Premium Plus + Crunchyroll
Tier³: $159.99 (Perfect for the Anime lover)
PS Plus benefits + Stream 2hr Demos + Unlimited stream/download + Crunchyroll.

This format is sustainable, but don't know about profitable.
 
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kingfey

Banned
This has been said over and over. We're waiting for MS to prove us wrong.

I am convinced that nobody outside of the current market for console will pay $10/month to play AAA games on their tablets or phone. But even among the console crowd, a gamepass model is a niche because there's only small gaming population that can play all those games. For most people it's not worth it.

Gamepass is already a hard sell among the gamer crowd. Among the casual crowd - it's as good as dead.
:messenger_expressionless::messenger_expressionless:

Please go outside for a while. And talk to gamers. I have couple of gamers who play gamepass. and these are casuals, who dont use forums.
 
Jason throws 'GamePass' in to his post regarding Sony's plans to unite their PS Now and PS Plus offerings and the Xbox fanboys lose their minds :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:. Like moths to a flame.

We don't even know what the final service is or will be offering

This thread is comedy gold

Please warriors, continue...

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Really... Cus I've got nothing but praise for gamepass in terms of games it offers, quality and amount. If PS is finally going for it with their service then we'll done to them and PS users are in for a massive treat.

However, if anyone is losing their minds, it's not xbox fans. Gamepass has been absoloubtly slated by PlayStation users on GAF, but now they are happy. How's that not warrioring.
 
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