• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Replaying UC4 has made me realize just how disappointing TLOU2 was.

decisions

Member
I wasn't expecting much from the Legacy of Thieves Collection, but after playing it I can surely say that UC4 at 60fps, with HDR, and the DualSense features is a flat-out amazing experience that feels like it is at the top of the industry, even though the vast majority of what I am experiencing was developed 6 years ago. I've played TLL much more recently and love that game as well, but here I'll be focusing on UC4.

I haven't played the game since launch and so I've forgotten a good bit of it. The story feels mostly fresh to me and I have trouble not playing the game for 3-4 hours (twice my usual gaming session) at a time because I am so enthralled. The game's segments fit together so seamlessly there never seems like a good point to stop. The shooting mechanics feel much better at 60fps and the graphics are just astounding. It goes to show you that graphics have not really improved all that much since this game's release, but that sort of macro-comparison has been taking a back seat in my mind to a more micro one...

UC4 wipes the floor with TLOU2 in every department. Comparing the two games, I can safely say that TLOU2 is the first dud that ND has released since starting their incredible run with UC2, and is an extreme disappointment, because wow, UC4 was really, really damn good.
I'll make a few categorical comparisons below:

- Gameplay: This is TLOU2's strongest category in my opinion, but even here it loses out to UC4 for me. TLOU2's gameplay improvements were nothing spectacular, while being overall a welcome upgrade over the first game. But UC4's gameplay is just as good, and just as much of a step up over previous games. The guns feel tight and impactful, the movement and cover system was much improved so that you get unintended movement much less often, and the combat arenas were much more open-ended compared to previous games. In terms of platforming, there were some significant editions with the climbing/swinging from the rope, sliding, and some cool platforming "puzzles" such as turning the clock arms in Madagascar that just give platforming sections that little bit of spice and novelty compared to previous entries. Having just replayed the Madagascar chase sequence, I can safely say this set piece has not been topped by any game. My jaw was wide open several times throughout it because I forgot just how many things you can do in this sequence -- you can shoot while sliding on the ground on the rope, you can climb the rope and stop in mind-air and shoot while swinging from the rope, you can jump on any trucks and shoot from the back, you can jump on jeeps and drive them after meleeing the driver, someone can jump on your jeep and you can melee them off, etc. It's really quite amazing, especially when you consider how seamlessly this section ties into the shootout and driving sequence that just happened previously. Sure, these types of set pieces maybe don't suit TLOU as much, but that doesn't excuse the fact that TLOU2 has no gameplay sequences that even came close to entertaining me as much as this in a general sense. In summary, both games brought gameplay improvements, but UC4 arguably advanced its series' gameplay more while also having much more memorable set pieces.


(Note: this gif doesn't have HDR. Madagascar looks way prettier now in HDR!)​

- Storytelling: UC4's story is enjoyable and interesting every step of the way. It has likable and funny characters, intense twists, and consistent and interesting themes (passion vs. people, ambition, the value of honesty, what it means to protect a loved one, what love means, etc.). I'm not saying it's dialogue rivals Dostoevsky, and sure there are some potholes for which you have to suspend your disbelief (though the series tonal consistency dilutes the damage of this IMO), but it is a coherent and enjoyable story that will make you think, feel suspense, and have put a smile on your face several times before the credits roll. TLOU2 on the other hand, has an absolutely terrible story with contradictory characters that betray their own nature several times throughout, massive plotholes that cannot be overlooked in the face of the game's relatively realistic and serious tone, and ultimately, nothing interesting to say about it's central theme of revenge. The plot has terrible pacing where you spend long stretches of hours where nothing really happens, and the entire second half of the game is spent trying to communicate something to you that does not require nearly that amount of time (i.e. "the second protagonist has friends too! If you are selfish in the post-apocalypse, you are actually being selfish and hurting other people who also have friends!" No shit Druckmann, I think we understood this perfectly fine from the first game...). It also just doesn't have a good understanding of what the audience has experienced at a certain point, how well the audience understands the characters on screen, and how much the audience cares about certain characters...I could go on, but this post is already too long so I won't.

- Pacing: UC4 is a bit slower than the previous games, trading some shooting for some more platforming and puzzle-solving, but I think this is a fine trade-off. You don't spend long stretches of time doing things you have done before as nearly every section of the game -- platforming, shooting, or puzzle-solving -- is unique due to some kind of environmental gimmick. It's really quite amazing. On the other hand, by the halfway point of TLOU2's 35hours I was absolutely dreading how much I had to walk around very samey looking environments tapping triangle in order to loot items so that combat (on the higher difficulties) didn't become a frustrating slog. I did not have fun playing TLOU2 and it has horrible gameplay pacing, weakening the impact of some of its mechanical improvements such as prone.

Personally, after realizing the above, I am quite worried about ND as a studio moving forward. I think that they still have amazing technical prowess in their graphics and animation engineers, but that it may have been Bruce Straley who was the real genius game director there, and Neil Druckmann far too impractical when left to his own devices. TLOU2 feels like a director trying to make a game out of shock value, rather than one being ambitious while keeping a sense of the big picture of what makes a game great.

What do you think? If you have played UC4 (especially LoT version) and TLOU2 recently, how would you compare them? If you think one is better than the other, why?

TL;DR

Replaying UC4 in The Legacy of Thieves Collection made me realize that TLOU2 was a huge disappointment because before it, Naughty Dog was in absolutely top form, which I had forgotten (perhaps because of the relatively long stretch of time between UC4 and TLOU2).

 
Last edited:
I agree OP U4 is a much better game
If you had Rafe kill drake in the opening act and then it forced you to play as him for the rest of the game looking for the treasure it would be a similar feel to how shit the story was in LOU2

The gameplay was never the issue with LOU2...the storyline and pacing is and you can tell its been directed by someone who had his head too far up his ass and wasnt kept in check
and if he has hand anywhere near the script for the tv series im hoping they slap it away
 
I agree OP U4 is a much better game
If you had Rafe kill drake in the opening act and then it forced you to play as him for the rest of the game looking for the treasure it would be a similar feel to how shit the story was in LOU2
Totally different vibes in both games. Uncharted is basically a summer blockbuster videogame paying homage to movies like that. Imagine killing Indiana Jones or 007 at a movie's opening and then witnessing the point of view of the guy that killed him.

TLOU2 simply goes deeper on what already happened at the end of the first game. We already knew those last few decisions would hunt Joel in the future. The Uncharted IP would never have us invading an enemy base making us feel conflicted like the first TLOU did in the first place...
 

Rykan

Member
I agree OP U4 is a much better game
If you had Rafe kill drake in the opening act and then it forced you to play as him for the rest of the game looking for the treasure it would be a similar feel to how shit the story was in LOU2
No it wouldn't. This is a rather silly comparison to make. Drake had been the main character of 3 games up to that point (4 if you count the PSV game) and the game series as a whole is a light hearted adventure tale. Doing something so dark would have been out of place for the series. Meanwhile TLOU only has 2 games of which Joel was the main character in 1 and he wasn't even the main character of that game's DLC. It is a darker, more serious series and what happened to Joel is an expected result of the actions he commited at the end of the first game.
 
Last edited:

Gamerguy84

Member
I didn't finish T2 yet because of spoilers but did want to say I agree with UC4 @60 HDR and DS. I feel like it's new again.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
TLOU2 simply goes deeper on what already happened at the end of the first game.
I said this before, TLOU2 was much more violent and more deaths but in all honestly none of it felt as impactful as the first game, in 2nd game it felt like the game is trying too hard to shock me much more than trying tell meaningful story like the first game did.
 

decisions

Member
Totally different vibes in both games. Uncharted is basically a summer blockbuster videogame paying homage to movies like that. Imagine killing Indiana Jones or 007 at a movie's opening and then witnessing the point of view of the guy that killed him.

TLOU2 simply goes deeper on what already happened at the end of the first game. We already knew those last few decisions would hunt Joel in the future. The Uncharted IP would never have us invading an enemy base making us feel conflicted like the first TLOU did in the first place...

This is why the premise of TLOU2 doesn't even make any sense. People say, "Joel had to die", "Joel's facing the consequences of his decisions". Why, when there is barely karmic justice in a civil society, would there be karmic justice in a mature post-apocalypse? It makes no sense and is a garbage premise.

That said, I understand it is the premise, and that you just have to accept that's the way the writers took the story. Totally accepting Joel's death as the premise and only judging everything that comes after, I stand by everything I wrote in my first post and that the story and characters are awful from that point forward.
 
No it wouldn't. This is a rather silly comparison to make. Drake had been the main character of 3 games up to that point (4 if you count the PSV game) and the game series as a whole is a light hearted adventure tale. Doing something so dark would have been out of place for the series. Meanwhile TLOU only has 2 games of which Joel was the main character in 1 and he wasn't even the main character of that game's DLC content. It is a darker, more serious series and what happened to Joel is an expected result of the actions he commited at the end of the first game.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to compare Rafe killing Drake to Abby killing Joel when Joel isn't even the protagonist of TLOU2.
 

Oddvintagechap

Gold Member
Uncharted is fun and all but, it doesn’t even compare.

There isnt any stakes.

Only uncharted they should make is Kid Drake. And perhaps a total remake of the first 3. By like bend or something.
 
I watched TLOU2 playthrough on YouTube to see what all the commotion was about. Was one of the most laughably awful narratives I've ever seen. Not only was it completely incompetent in terms of storytelling, but also smug and self-serious as if it were some prestigious HBO show, which just made it even more hilariously awful.
 

Hugare

Member
TLOU 2 lives rent free in some people's minds, huh?

Dont know why you had to bring TLOU 2 to your U4 thread. Apples and oranges.

I love them almost equally. Enjoyed TLOU 2 a little more because what they did storywise resonated with me a lot.

Both suffer from poor pacing sometimes
 
Last edited:

SteadyEvo

Member
One is an arcade shooter that lets you eat rounds while sprinting to cover and allows the player to regenerate health.

The other is hands down the most brutal and realistic shooter/combat game of all time. Each encounter is a tense life or death exchange.

OP clearly values the relaxed, arcade style of shooting offered by Uncharted.
 

Andodalf

Member
TLOU 2 lives rent free in some people's minds, huh?

Dont know why you had to bring TLOU 2 to you U4 thread. Apples and oranges.

I love them almost equally. Enjoyed TLOU 2 a little more because I what they did storywise resonated with me a lot.

Both suffer from poor pacing sometimes
….. You think it’s weird to compare the two most recent releases from one studio.




What the hell is wrong with some people.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I think both are pretty mediocre games all told. There are games that have better stories. Games that have more in-depth gameplay and systems. Games that do *both* and far better than what has been seen here (and it isn't even uncommon to find those games, its the norm).

The only thing I can't really argue with is the graphical fidelity and animations. They truly are some of the best in the industry and for the lowest common denominators in the consumer base, that is like catnip to a cat. Its also why I can't take anyone seriously when they consider either game to be "masterpieces". They are the same kind of person who would eat Culvers and consider it high class dining.

….. You think it’s weird to compare the two most recent releases from one studio.




What the hell is wrong with some people.

Just a fanboy who gets really butthurt whenever someone dares criticize his favorite little game. Got quite a few of them who popped up immediately in here.
 
Last edited:
TLoU2 has way better gameplay. You can crouch, crawl, Run, distract and stun enemies with objects, use enemies as shields, way better hand to hand combat, ability to dodge, kill enemies from above. Better animations, Better stealth, Way better AI, Gore, Better physics. Uncharted 4 is not even close when it comes to pure gameplay standpoint.

That being said Uncharted 4 has way better pacing.
 

DForce

Member
This is why the premise of TLOU2 doesn't even make any sense. People say, "Joel had to die", "Joel's facing the consequences of his decisions". Why, when there is barely karmic justice in a civil society, would there be karmic justice in a mature post-apocalypse? It makes no sense and is a garbage premise.

Because they believe what he did was wrong. You don't need a justice system to determine that.
 

Yoboman

Member
I think both are pretty mediocre games all told. There are games that have better stories. Games that have more in-depth gameplay and systems. Games that do *both* and far better than what has been seen here (and it isn't even uncommon to find those games, its the norm).

The only thing I can't really argue with is the graphical fidelity and animations. They truly are some of the best in the industry and for the lowest common denominators in the consumer base, that is like catnip to a cat. Its also why I can't take anyone seriously when they consider either game to be "masterpieces". They are the same kind of person who would eat Culvers and consider it high class dining.



Just a fanboy who gets really butthurt whenever someone dares criticize his favorite little game. Got quite a few of them who popped up immediately in here.
Such as?
 

Lupin25

Member
I agree OP U4 is a much better game
If you had Rafe kill drake in the opening act and then it forced you to play as him for the rest of the game looking for the treasure it would be a similar feel to how shit the story was in LOU2

The gameplay was never the issue with LOU2...the storyline and pacing is and you can tell its been directed by someone who had his head too far up his ass and wasnt kept in check
and if he has hand anywhere near the script for the tv series im hoping they slap it away

Lol.

So you want the man who created both games not to have a hand in creating the show either?
 
TLOU2 reminds me of the movie Silence of the Lambs, what a great movie that I never want to see again.
All that remains are the memorable characters taken out of context. Buffalo Bill and Hanibal.

Uncharted Series reminds me of Indiana Jones movies. I've seen them all lots of times and will quote them in inappropriate places.

"Bad Dates" Ellie said that right?
 
Last edited:

Yoboman

Member
I agree OP U4 is a much better game
If you had Rafe kill drake in the opening act and then it forced you to play as him for the rest of the game looking for the treasure it would be a similar feel to how shit the story was in LOU2

The gameplay was never the issue with LOU2...the storyline and pacing is and you can tell its been directed by someone who had his head too far up his ass and wasnt kept in check
and if he has hand anywhere near the script for the tv series im hoping they slap it away
Its strange how the green rats are the ones most indignant about TLOU2's story. Which they all experienced on Youtube

Must be a coincidence 🤭
 
I think both are pretty mediocre games all told. There are games that have better stories. Games that have more in-depth gameplay and systems. Games that do *both* and far better than what has been seen here (and it isn't even uncommon to find those games, its the norm).

The only thing I can't really argue with is the graphical fidelity and animations. They truly are some of the best in the industry and for the lowest common denominators in the consumer base, that is like catnip to a cat. Its also why I can't take anyone seriously when they consider either game to be "masterpieces". They are the same kind of person who would eat Culvers and consider it high class dining.



Just a fanboy who gets really butthurt whenever someone dares criticize his favorite little game. Got quite a few of them who popped up immediately in here.

Let’s hear them.
 
Honestly I'd agree, but I'd add that Naughty Dog seems to be on a slight decline ever since Uncharted 2, which IMO was their absolute peak.

Can't argue with their technical prowess, but I like the Uncharted the games a lot better. On the topic at hand though, Uncharted 4 is perfect in its unserious and goofy way. The Last of Us 2 tried to make the game much deeper and serious, but to me, they honestly didn't pull it off. Feels like the whole Joel situation was a despereate grab at something that in tehir minds was absolute genious, but obviously didn't land with a lot of their playerbase.
 

retsof624

Member
Replaying Uncharted 4 at 60fps made me appreciate the gameplay even more. Same as when the TLOU2 patch came out. Naughty Dog is great at making character movement fluid and responsive while also having smooth animations
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Honestly I'd agree, but I'd add that Naughty Dog seems to be on a slight decline ever since Uncharted 2, which IMO was their absolute peak.

Can't argue with their technical prowess, but I like the Uncharted the games a lot better. On the topic at hand though, Uncharted 4 is perfect in its unserious and goofy way. The Last of Us 2 tried to make the game much deeper and serious, but to me, they honestly didn't pull it off. Feels like the whole Joel situation was a despereate grab at something that in tehir minds was absolute genious, but obviously didn't land with a lot of their playerbase.

Yep. Though to be fair, they could have pulled off the Joel scene a lot better if they just tweaked it a *slight* bit so to not have them act so out of character. Still wouldn't fix any of the other numerous issues with the story, but that scene would have at least been good.

I am curious to see what the story would have been if Straley stayed on. TLOU1 had no new or interesting ideas and borrowed heavily for more interesting, better written sources, but it at least told its story competently. I have a feeling Bruce was the reason why that happened.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to compare Rafe killing Drake to Abby killing Joel when Joel isn't even the protagonist of TLOU2.
That's because they killed him 🤔

Anyway, I do agree with the OP.
but both U4 & to a lesser extent LL has Neil's shitty finger prints on them which ruins them.
Uncharted 2 will always be the best one.
 
Last edited:

Trimesh

Banned
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I liked both U4 and TLoU2 substantially less than their predecessors. Sure, they are both very nice technically, but as a game U4 bored me to the point where I just quit playing and although I did complete TLoU2 by the end of it I had absolutely no interest in ever playing it again - honestly, by about 2/3 of the way through I was pretty much forcing myself to continue because it was dragging so much.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I liked both U4 and TLoU2 substantially less than their predecessors. Sure, they are both very nice technically, but as a game U4 bored me to the point where I just quit playing and although I did complete TLoU2 by the end of it I had absolutely no interest in ever playing it again - honestly, by about 2/3 of the way through I was pretty much forcing myself to continue because it was dragging so much.

No, you are absolutely in the majority. Most people don't care for modern Naughty Dog aside from diehard fanboys and console warriors.
 

Bernardougf

Member
Yes? It would be like comparing Captain Hook to Saving Private Ryan simply because they are both Spielberg movies.
you can absolutely compare the two, direction, production, photography, story cohesion, performances and etc... the genre to which the film belongs does not exclude it from comparisons, especially if made by the same director.
 

Justin9mm

Member
I watched TLOU2 playthrough on YouTube to see what all the commotion was about. Was one of the most laughably awful narratives I've ever seen. Not only was it completely incompetent in terms of storytelling, but also smug and self-serious as if it were some prestigious HBO show, which just made it even more hilariously awful.
Oh you're that guy
 

Bernardougf

Member
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I liked both U4 and TLoU2 substantially less than their predecessors. Sure, they are both very nice technically, but as a game U4 bored me to the point where I just quit playing and although I did complete TLoU2 by the end of it I had absolutely no interest in ever playing it again - honestly, by about 2/3 of the way through I was pretty much forcing myself to continue because it was dragging so much.
No you are not, I was a big ND fan, but UC4 was meh storywise and last of us 2 is simple terrible (story and pacing) ... Last of us 1 is in my top 5 favorite games of all time
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
I only made it halfway through UC4. As much as I didn't like the story in TLOU2 I thought it was a better game than UC4.

That said, I kind of think both UC4 and TLOU2 were stories that didn't need to be told and I would have preferred that Naughty Dog make something else instead. I haven't looked to see if there's info on what ND will do next.
 

Rykan

Member
To be fair, I would be totally okay with banning the word "MaStErPiEcE" all together. It's so unbelievably cringe
 
Last edited:

Warablo

Member
I thought the story and pacing was terrible in TLOU Part II, but I at least felt compelled to finish it compared to Uncharted 4.
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
you can absolutely compare the two, direction, production, photography, story cohesion, performances and etc... the genre to which the film belongs does not exclude it from comparisons, especially if made by the same director.
Unless the comparison is the genre of course. Production in TLOU2 is probably above Uncharted, story cohesion and performances I would say are better in TLOU2. From the OP genre seems to be the main gameplay argument:

"Sure, these types of set pieces maybe don't suit TLOU as much, but that doesn't excuse the fact that TLOU2 has no gameplay sequences that even came close to entertaining me as much as this in a general sense."

It's pretty clear from the OP that he likes action adventure set pieces and funny characters. You don't watch "Lincoln" by Spielberg and expect car chases and explosions for example. OP liked the chase sequence in Uncharted. TLOU2 aimed to have intense encounters, scary moments, and survival and it did that rather well, it didn’t aim to be an Indiana Jones family adventure. He likes one genre more than the other and that's great. Doesn't make the other a disappoint unless his only gripe is that he wanted more Uncharted from the studio instead of TLOU. TLOU is a different type of game. What it aimed to do it did well and a comparison to Uncharted to me seems a little out of place.
 
Top Bottom