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News Rendering Engineer at EpicGames: DirectX RayTracing and Vulkan Optix holds everything back in PC land

rnlval

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Ray Tracing will be the consoles' Achiles heel this generation. Spiderman at 4K30, with non reflective Ray Tracing, is an early sign the PS5 will struggle with Ray Tracing, especially in open world games.

The consoles lack a hardware based DLSS solution, like the RTX 30 series, so ironically it's the consoles which are "brute forcing" 4K, while the 30 series on PC can fall back on DLSS and AI upscale to 4K, while doing full Ray Tracing and post effects.
On RTX cards, the bulk of DLSS software runs on Tensor co-processors.

XSX and BiG NAVI can run tensor math via ML dot math feature within CU's stream processors. ML dot math feature's resulting datatype is different from RPM feature.

Tensor math requires mixed-precision





----


PS5 has hardware checkerboard support.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Again Demon's Souls looks better than anything on PC.
It's happened before(learn gaming history)
The minimum requirements on PC still involve HDD's.
Consoles win.
Gaming builds don't make games LOL try again.
You should probably play some games on PC for once in your life.

Have you seen the requirements for games on PC, since you seem to have limited to no idea what you are talking about?

What if I told you more people have powerful rigs than people have ps5s.
 
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Fafalada

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When you can objectively prove me wrong with optimization NOT being lowering resolution and incorporating a 'ray switch' to filter out things from the scene
While it can be semantically correct, I actually take an issue with calling something like 'lowering resolution' an optimization at all. Admittedly outside of GDC presentation we rarely get to discuss more interesting optimization work, so for RT it'll be sometime out before we see what (if anything) is possible.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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You should probably play some games on PC for once in your life.

Have you seen the requirements for games on PC, since you seem to have limited to no idea what you are talking about?

What if I told you more people have powerful rigs than people have ps5s.
I been building and playing PC games since 98.
Who cares if a rig is more powerful than the PS5?
The software isn't there nor is it designed to be.
Still supporting HDD is the PC's achilles heel.

Nowhere enough PS5 matching Gen 4/nvme setups in homes for gaming software companies to utilize it's benefits like the PS5 will. ie the games won't come PS5 wins


A 2021 Lamborghini with neon light's and a quarter of gas vs a 2021 Viper with a whole tank of gas driving across America..... who's going to see more and who's going farther?
Which cost more?
 

psorcerer

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While it can be semantically correct, I actually take an issue with calling something like 'lowering resolution' an optimization at all. Admittedly outside of GDC presentation we rarely get to discuss more interesting optimization work, so for RT it'll be sometime out before we see what (if anything) is possible.

They cannot do any other optimizations, because NV RT support is hardcoded into hw at every stage.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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I been building and playing PC games since 98.

Ok and what is that supposed to mean exactly? You obviously haven't been recently at all, and it shows.
Who cares if a rig is more powerful than the PS5?
There's a reason why demon souls isn't the best looking game, technically speaking. It's because the console isn't as powerful as what has been out/currently out/coming out for PC.
The software isn't there nor is it designed to be.
Still supporting HDD is the PC's achilles heel.
So when it releases on "PC", don't you think it will look better, and with raytracing support? I still don't think it'll be the best looking game on PC, especially from a technical standpoint.
Nowhere enough PS5 matching Gen 4/nvme setups in homes for gaming software companies to utilize it's benefits like the PS5 will. ie the games won't come PS5 wins
What is the transfer speed from the SSD to the vram in ratchet and clank, DemSouls, or whatever game you choose? If you don't have a clue, you shouldn't make baseless claims like that. Also, do you think the consoles will have better raytracing/textures in cyberpunk for instance? If not, your statement holds no weight.
A 2021 Lamborghini with neon light's and a quarter of gas vs a 2021 Viper with a whole tank of gas driving across America..... who's going to see more and who's going farther?
Which cost more?
Not sure what this has to do with gaming, or this thread at all?
Works without it.

Ps5 and xsx support HDD's.
 
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Dampf

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I will. In fact, if you steer me towards where in the code I can look at it, I can find the optimizations myself. Is it up on the repo?
You have to sign up for the UE4 plugin here https://developer.nvidia.com/rtxgi

Could take a while though. I think the trick is that it updates its light probes via Raytracing when the lighting changes, instead of using RT all the time! It's a pretty clever combination of traditional GI and Raytracing with the benefit of not having to bake light and having multi bounce light without a huge performance cost.
 
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assurdum

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We are comparing the PC version of WD:L to the PS5 version of MM.

I'll say this yet again, if you think seeing all the objects in the world to infinity at a lower quality is your definition of "better" reflections, then I won't argue that. You won't hear me fight that at all.

If, however, you think that the quality of the reflection is better, then you are factually WRONG. Period. This isn't up for debate.



Again talks talks talks. I say to post a picture which shows WD with better reflection compared MM, but nope, there is even a Epic developer who claimed it's one of the best implementation seen until now, but obviously different opinion doesn't counts for you, and you continue to give air to the same narrative without care of everything else. Stop to call facts, indisputable a bunch of guesses by you and Dictator, they are opinions like others, I literally not have idea where coming because on the picture I don't see that better quality like we can see something of concrete about such tech disquisition? Because I don't see anything of better in the WD solution compared MM from the videos available on the net. Period. Be a bit more humble if I can say.
 
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VFXVeteran

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You have to sign up for the UE4 plugin here https://developer.nvidia.com/rtxgi

Could take a while though. I think the trick is that it updates its light probes via Raytracing when the lighting changes, instead of using RT all the time! It's a pretty clever combination of traditional GI and Raytracing with the benefit of not having to bake light and having multi bounce light without a huge performance cost.

Right, that is a clever trick. I'm not sure how accurate it is but yea, that's basically using the traditional GI in conjunction with RT GI in order to speed up calculations without changing the actual RT algorithm in general.

HOWEVER, it continues to keep the lame workflow of setting up light probes to begin with... we are ultimately wanting to get completely away from that so that the artist can just know that the GI will work automatically and get the shader color from neighboring geometry.

Good valid point. Appreciate the input!! 👍
 
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VFXVeteran

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Again talks talks talks. I say to post a picture which shows WD with better reflection compared MM, there is even a Epic developer who claimed it's one if the best implementation seen until now, but obviously different opinion doesn't counts, and you continue to give air to the same narrative without listen the other side. Stop to call factually a bunch of guesses by you and Dictator, they are opinions like others. Period. No facts there.

1. The Epic developer never claimed it was one of the best implementations since he never mentioned any comparison.

2. I have a WD:L 4k video being sent to Youtube so I'll post a link soon. You can observe the reflections in realtime there.

3. You don't need to "see" anything. The factual wording is already presented. There is no argument from you even if you "see" a screenshot. What are you going to do? Counter the facts by saying "Look, SEE! Spiderman MM looks better because it reflects all the world at infinite distance!!" If so, save us both some time and just let it go.
 

assurdum

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1. The Epic developer never claimed it was one of the best implementations since he never mentioned any comparison.

2. I have a WD:L 4k video being sent to Youtube so I'll post a link soon. You can observe the reflections in realtime there.

3. You don't need to "see" anything. The factual wording is already presented. There is no argument from you even if you "see" a screenshot. What are you going to do? Counter the facts by saying "Look, SEE! Spiderman MM looks better because it reflects all the world at infinite distance!!" If so, save us both some time and just let it go.
So now post a screenshot to prove your point means nothing because obviously it's impossible ti see a better reflection on WD compared MM from it and it goes against your useless long explanation, my personal guess. But some days agos you downplayed even the SSS implementation on MM and just from a single picture provided by DF; I'm asking what is changed today and why screenshot comparison is no more helpful for such discussion, mmmm.
Epic developer said via Twitter raytracing like MM wouldn't be possible on pc until a bunch of years because direct X are a bit problematic in such stuff but nope, you have even the face to say he didn't means it's better of WD, because doesn't speaks straightly about it. Good Lord .
And you have the courage to call your chats impartial and factual. Unbelievable. But I agree it's a waste of time discuss with you, it's an infinite turn around to your words without any concrete prove of your assumptions and nothing more.
 
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Guilty_AI

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So now post a screenshot means nothing because obviously it's impossible seen a better reflection on WD compared MM from it and it goes against your factual long tech chats. But some days agos you guessed even the SSS on MM from a single picture provided by DF; I'm asking what is changed and why screenshot comparison is no more helpful, mmmm. Epic developer said raytracing like MM wouldn't be possible on pc until a bunch of years but nope he didn't means is better of WD because doesn't speak straightly about it, sure. And you have the courage to call your chats impartial and factual. Unbelievable. But I agree it's a waste your time and talk to you is an infinite circle around to your words and nothing more.
Dude... i'm no graphics tech specialist, but i don't need to be one to understand how having multiple reflective surfaces in scene, all with reflections inside reflections, more convincing transparency and higher res is way more complex to reproduce in real time than just having more objects inside the reflection. No picture in the world will convince you if you can't understand that.
 
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VFXVeteran

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So now screenshot means nothing because obviously it's impossible seen a better reflection on WD compared MM and it goes against your factual long tech chats. But some days agos you guessed even the SSS on MM from a single picture provided by DF; I'm asking what is changed and why screenshot comparison is no more helpful, mmmm.

I have a video forthcoming as I mentioned several times already.

Epic developer say a raytracing like MM wouldn't be possible on pc until a bunch of years

Don't spread FUD dude. That's not cool. He never said that.
 
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assurdum

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Dude... i'm no graphics tech specialist, but i don't need to be one to understand how having multiple reflective surfaces in scene, all with reflections inside reflections, more convincing transparency and higher res is way more complex to reproduce in real time than just having more objects inside the reflection. No picture in the world will convince you if you can't understand that.
Dude can you show me a picture with all those magnificent stuff on WD on console, pointing out such details in the following video:
What I see sometimes cars doesn't appear in the showcase close to the other, cubemap is really invasive, and everything animated appears reflected selectively; all said, the pov is really, really poor in the reflections and impossible to ignore, the cubemap is too much visible, but it's better because you can see a reflection in the reflection in some scene or achieves higher res? (which honestly I can't even spot a single picture with such benefit) . And I want to give to you the reason, let's admit such tech is more expensive on WD compared MM.
Looking to the final result, is really that worth compared MM? Who cared if it's more "advanced" on the paper if the final result is simply awful? Because, frankly, I prefer the "poor peasant" reflections of MM all the days and I beg to find a normal personal who would say otherwise, than some sophisticated tech guy who rubs his hands to the hypothetical tech involved and can't even admit how awful is the final result on the screen, because the theory overshadows the practice, hearing him
 
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Jagz

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On RTX cards, the bulk of DLSS software runs on Tensor co-processors.

PS5 has hardware checkerboard support.
The problem is that it's a 1st gen implementation by AMD and far less optimised for Ray Tracing than NVidia's 30 series and DLSS solution, which offers a 2x performance increase all-round in Ray Tracing from the 20 series. And developers have opted for dynamic resolution on PS5, not a DLSS solution, which has resulted in a lot of 1440p-4K in Ray Traced games.

The bottom line is, the consoles are struggling to do 4K,60fps and Ray Tracing; console games don't have many graphics options beside performance and fidelity, and realistically, I don't see many games that will offer a 60fps performance mode with Ray Tracing enabled; Ray Tracing will mostly remain locked behind 30fps fidelity, regardless of hypothetical performance capabilities of the consoles.
 
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Dude can you show me a picture with all those magnificent stuff on WD on console, pointing out such details in the following video:
What I see sometimes cars doesn't appear in the showcase close to the other, cubemap is really invasive, and everything animated appears reflected selectively; all said, the pov is really, really poor in the reflections and impossible to ignore, the cubemap is too much visible, but it's better because you can see a reflection in the reflection in some scene or achieves higher res? (which honestly I can't even spot a single picture with such benefit) . And I want to give to you the reason, let's admit such tech is more expensive on WD compared MM.
Looking to the final result, is really that worth compared MM? Who cared if it's more "advanced" on the paper if the final result is simply awful? Because, frankly, I prefer the "poor peasant" reflections of MM all the days and I beg to find a normal personal who would say otherwise, than some sophisticated tech guy who rubs his hands to the hypothetical tech involved and can't even admit how awful is the final result on the screen, because the theory overshadows the practice, hearing him

Doesn't it switch to screen space reflection a bit of distance away besides not reflecting things past a distance within the close realtime reflection and not reflecting all moving objects and having less moving objects.

Also I bet the reflection within reflection is only one level of recursion. Doubt you can see an infinite depth recursion reflection that would be the proper reflection.
 

rnlval

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The problem is that it's a 1st gen implementation by AMD and far less optimised for Ray Tracing than NVidia's 30 series and DLSS solution, which offers a 2x performance increase all-round in Ray Tracing from the 20 series. And developers have opted for dynamic resolution on PS5, not a DLSS solution, which has resulted in a lot of 1440p-4K in Ray Traced games.

The bottom line is, the consoles are struggling to do 4K,60fps and Ray Tracing; console games don't have many graphics options beside performance and fidelity, and realistically, I don't see many games that will offer a 60fps performance mode with Ray Tracing enabled; Ray Tracing will mostly remain locked behind 30fps fidelity, regardless of hypothetical performance capabilities of the consoles.
I'm already aware of RDNA 2's lack of brute force RT hardware performance, hence my next GPU card RTX 3080 Ti 20GB from MSI RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio OC and Blender 3D's hardware RT acceleration is important.

I have two gaming PC rigs and one them is Blender 3D render workstation and other is visual studio box workstation.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Ok and what is that supposed to mean exactly? You obviously haven't been recently at all, and it shows.

There's a reason why demon souls isn't the best looking game, technically speaking. It's because the console isn't as powerful as what has been out/currently out/coming out for PC.

So when it releases on "PC", don't you think it will look better, and with raytracing support? I still don't think it'll be the best looking game on PC, especially from a technical standpoint.

What is the transfer speed from the SSD to the vram in ratchet and clank, DemSouls, or whatever game you choose? If you don't have a clue, you shouldn't make baseless claims like that. Also, do you think the consoles will have better raytracing/textures in cyberpunk for instance? If not, your statement holds no weight.

Not sure what this has to do with gaming, or this thread at all?


Ps5 and xsx support HDD's.
Without SSD, the game hitches


The HDD cannot stream assets fast enough, resulting in black textures, disappearing elevators, glitches, stutters, and even the music is stuttering

SC still works on HDD and it's sad that ONLY one sorta example can be given lolz

No PS5 games are made with HDD needed to be supported.
PS5 doesn't have this weakness that the PC has.

I have been since 98 as I told you.
The only obvious is you don't have a clue about me you.
I taste of both waters and find consoles to be overall better get over it.
IF Demon's Souls comes to PC(yearrrrs later) I would hope by then that it looks better than a 2020 console version.
NOTHING available or shown to be coming on PC looks as good as DS or R&C.
PS5 will win best visuals likely for the entirety of the whole generation unless MS wakes up.
Better versions of 3rd party games don't make PS5 inferior as 3rd party games are made for various tech.
PS5 exclusives are the measuring stick and PC doesn't measure up.
 

Guilty_AI

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Dude can you show me a picture with all those magnificent stuff on WD on console, pointing out such details in the following video:
Why does it have to be on console? RT tech is on PC also, and probably what VFX was mostly referencing until now

Also I bet the reflection within reflection is only one level of recursion. Doubt you can see an infinite depth recursion reflection that would be the proper reflection.
I'm not 100% in-the-know of how RT tech works exactly, but at least mathematicaly speaking, based on what i know RT does, even just a single level more of recursion here would lead to an exponential growth in complexity.

SC still works on HDD and it's sad that ONLY one sorta example can be given lolz

No PS5 games are made with HDD needed to be supported.
PS5 doesn't have this weakness that the PC has.

I have been since 98 as I told you.
The only obvious is you don't have a clue about me you.
I taste of both waters and find consoles to be overall better get over it.
IF Demon's Souls comes to PC(yearrrrs later) I would hope by then that it looks better than a 2020 console version.
NOTHING available or shown to be coming on PC looks as good as DS or R&C.
PS5 will win best visuals likely for the entirety of the whole generation unless MS wakes up.
Better versions of 3rd party games don't make PS5 inferior as 3rd party games are made for various tech.
PS5 exclusives are the measuring stick and PC doesn't measure up.
PS5 has been out for, what, 2 weeks? I mean, how many released examples can you even give for the ps5 here?
The most i've seen games like DS or AstroPlayroom do is have fast loading screens at the end of the day.

Also, why are you so hellbent on assuming every PC game will be made targeting HDDs when SSDs are already so commonplace? Even budget gaming Notebooks come with a 256/512GB one nowadays.
Its like assuming PC games are all made targeting 4GB RAM just because thats the total memory of some old PCs out there.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Why does it have to be on console? RT tech is on PC also, and probably what VFX was mostly referencing until now


I'm not 100% in-the-know of how RT tech works exactly, but at least mathematicaly speaking, based on what i know RT does, even just a single level more of recursion here would lead to an exponential growth in complexity.


PS5 has been out for, what, 2 weeks? I mean, how many released examples can you even give for the ps5 here?
The most i've seen games like DS or AstroPlayroom do is have fast loading screens at the end of the day.

Also, why are you so hellbent on assuming every PC game will be made targeting HDDs when SSDs are already so commonplace? Even budget gaming Notebooks come with a 256/512GB one nowadays.
Its like assuming PC games are all made targeting 4GB RAM just because thats the total memory of some old PCs out there.
DS and SM MM look better than anything on PC.

PC will be at a disadvantage until they drop support for HDD's.
 

Panajev2001a

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Love Dictator's deflection. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I like this bit as it does really narrow down the one spec, one generation, one HW difference the transitional console model brings:
I'm certainly biased. I find no APIs overly complex, relatively speaking. What's bothersome on PC, with all APIs, is that you don't know the cost of anything really, drivers can change all the time, and the higher level APIs can have dramatic shifts in function-call costs. New workarounds are bolted on frequently. Serving an unknown performance budget market (as is the PC market) creates polluted / complicated code-bases, and produces a lot of reasonable and unreasonable eye-balling regarding the quality presets and enabled features that are offered. A man-life is only so long.
The console APIs are reliable, they get more stable, but they don't suddenly change their performance. Mostly you have access to everything you could get access to, and long before release of the console. I personally can find my Zen moments programming there, [can] know everything (including at times the precise implementation of the API itself), and can count on it, and can make good use of it, know which space my creativity can explore.
 

assurdum

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Why does it have to be on console? RT tech is on PC also, and probably what VFX was mostly referencing until now


I'm not 100% in-the-know of how RT tech works exactly, but at least mathematicaly speaking, based on what i know RT does, even just a single level more of recursion here would lead to an exponential growth in complexity.


PS5 has been out for, what, 2 weeks? I mean, how many released examples can you even give for the ps5 here?
The most i've seen games like DS or AstroPlayroom do is have fast loading screens at the end of the day.

Also, why are you so hellbent on assuming every PC game will be made targeting HDDs when SSDs are already so commonplace? Even budget gaming Notebooks come with a 256/512GB one nowadays.
Its like assuming PC games are all made targeting 4GB RAM just because thats the total memory of some old PCs out there.
Because I don't compare a more powerful pc with RTX tested from years Vs a weaker hardware in its first steps. Of course on pc raytracing is better. But on console the raytracing showed in Spiderman is the most impressive and in WD (on console) is very limited.
 
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yurinka

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There's a reason why demon souls isn't the best looking game, technically speaking. It's because the console isn't as powerful as what has been out/currently out/coming out for PC.
No, this isn't the reason. Its devs said they were going to add RT but at the end they didn't implemented it because they are a relatively small team for AAA games (under 100 people) and the game had to be ready for launch, so didn't have time to implement all the things they wanted to implement, and RT was one of them.

Spider-Man Miles Morales instead uses RT, and the tweet on the OP mentions it as a great example of RT reflections and wants to hear a tech talk about them. The Epic Games dev mentions that Direct X Raytracing (PC, Xbox) sucks because he'd prefer to have access to the low level stuff, something PS always provided (not only in PS5).

And these are only launch games (which always means rushed and developed whithout knowing the final specs during a big portion of their development process) developed in engines made for last gen. Once they start using engines designed for PS5 only taking advantage of all its new hardware stuff (geometry engine, super fast SSD+I/O, everything related to its memory management etc) the results will be insanely better as shown in the UE5 demo.


Once their engines will be designed to stream insanely detailed models and textures at super fast speed with geometry engine culling what they don't need and reducing their detail to what the resolution allows thanks to geometry virtualization and virtual texturing, they won't need to do many tricks they currently do like bump mapping, LOD, lightmaps, baked illumination and so on, and they won't even need to do the current shadows (including the RT ones) because ray traced global illumination will take care of that.

Tim Sweeney explained in Twitter why they like the PS5 and why this demo was running there instead of in a PC. Let me (and Tim Sweeney) know if you find a PC game looking better than this demo. Or to the Rendering Engineer at Epic Games of the tweet that appears in the OP, who not only worked in this demo but also contributed to the Vulkan RT specifications released last week.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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If you think MM or DS on ps5 are more impressive games even for pc, you are completely wrong with all respect. You can achieve similar result just with the mod pack of The Witcher 3.
They are and like I said nothing coming (been announced for PC)
Looks as good.
TW3 looks incredible 4K/60hz maxed but it has no HDR on PC and Demon's Souls looks better.
 

VFXVeteran

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Post the twitter, I beg you.

Are you serious dude? Look at the first post and see for yourself!

I really look forward to the tech talks about raytraced reflections in Spider-Man. I can only look at some gameplay footage, but it really looks like a great technical achievement. Wonder what it would take to run that at 60Hz.

Well, DXR (and very DXR-like Vulkan extension as well as Optix) is the only way to do hardware ray tracing on PC. It doesn’t mean that it’s good. It’s a big black box and developers can’t really do some of the things that low-level hardware access could allow.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Doesn't it switch to screen space reflection a bit of distance away besides not reflecting things past a distance within the close realtime reflection and not reflecting all moving objects and having less moving objects.

Also I bet the reflection within reflection is only one level of recursion. Doubt you can see an infinite depth recursion reflection that would be the proper reflection.

Not even offline rendering does infinite level of recursion. Of course, it's just a 2nd level. It's still more accurate than no level of recursion like in MM.

assurdum assurdum


There is my video. Full 4k. Ultra settings. You see the popping across the street. That's not the point of the video. The point is to show all the things that DF stated was superior to MM in the reflection quality that is being reflected.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Not even offline rendering does infinite level of recursion. Of course, it's just a 2nd level. It's still more accurate than no level of recursion like in MM.

assurdum assurdum


There is my video. Full 4k. Ultra settings. You see the popping across the street. That's not the point of the video. The point is to show all the things that DF stated was superior to MM in the reflection quality that is being reflected.
SM MM could win best graphics of the year.

This won't even get a mention.
 
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VFXVeteran

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I like this bit as it does really narrow down the one spec, one generation, one HW difference the transitional console model brings:

Basically he's stating he likes a fixed platform and prefers it over the robustness of an open platform/API that causes him problems. Despite his complaints, the PC never has any issues rendering the fastest FPS anyways in any game compared to console... so there's that. Open API/hardware platforms scale well. That's their main advantage. You are locked into a specific hardware for 7yrs with the console. I'd personally take the scaling so that I can continue to push the envelope year after year.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Not the point of the thread - AT ALL.

Stick to the point. WD:L RT reflections are of better quality on a PC/Ultra than PS5 MM. Period.
I can't believe people are that delusional and have little fanboy logic to deny that. Its as if these fanboys have blinders on, and refuse to open their eyes, unless it's Sony, ps5, or playstation related. They can't even give credit to cyberpunk which blows the doors off any ps5 exclusive. Not to mention how the ps5 version is actually the ps4 version. And there was even word about how the next gen patch is going to be released later, due to technical difficulties with console version. You'd imagine that "super fast SSD" could fix all these issues, if you'd listen to yurinka yurinka and S0ULZB0URNE S0ULZB0URNE funny posts.
 

VFXVeteran

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I can't believe people are that delusional and have little fanboy logic to deny that. Its as if these fanboys have blinders on, and refuse to open their eyes, unless it's Sony, ps5, or playstation related. They can't even give credit to cyberpunk which blows the doors off any ps5 exclusive. Not to mention how the ps5 version is actually the ps4 version. And there was even word about how the next gen patch is going to be released later, due to technical difficulties with console version. You'd imagine that "super fast SSD" could fix all these issues, if you'd listen to yurinka yurinka and S0ULZB0URNE S0ULZB0URNE funny posts.

Of course.

They will preach Sony on these boards for another 7yrs. They'll just continue to be backed into a corner coming up with ridiculous defensive arguments that hold no merit. It's literally my entertainment on these boards... guys that "WILL" things to be in Sony's favor no matter what. :messenger_tears_of_joy: - over the top ridiculous.
 
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VFXVeteran

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And these are only launch games (which always means rushed and developed whithout knowing the final specs during a big portion of their development process) developed in engines made for last gen. Once they start using engines designed for PS5 only taking advantage of all its new hardware stuff (geometry engine, super fast SSD+I/O, everything related to its memory management etc) the results will be insanely better as shown in the UE5 demo.

How ironic that you mention developers not knowing how to master a closed box that is so similar to it's previous generation than any other generation before it.. and yet you show a demo by the very company that the rendering engineer works for where their demo supposed goes beyond any launch title to date for the PS5.

Are you sure these devs don't know what they are doing yet? We have this demo as proof that they do.
 
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yurinka

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How ironic that you mention developers not knowing how to master a closed box that is so similar to it's previous generation than any other generation before it.. and yet you show a demo by the very company that the rendering engineer works for where their demo supposed goes beyond any launch title to date for the PS5.

Are you sure these devs don't know what they are doing yet? We have this demo as proof that they do.
Developers know how to master a closed box, they only need time to build their engines (the one of the demo won't be ready until end of 2021) and until then they will make mostly crossgen games with tweaked previous gen engines.

First because of business: it's more profitable to continue milking the previous gen big userbase than to focus on a insanely expensive next gen AAA that only a few thousand people would buy. Even less if we're talking about PC, because almost nobody buys GPUs that cost over $500 and this is the reason of why nobody makes a game to take advantage of that GPU without being pushed back by hardware released like a decade or more ago. This is why PC multi games often only offer on high end hardware more FPS, maybe more native resolution and maybe some secondary extra visual effect.

And then because as I said they need time to do their engines and to master the new machines. It's stupid to ask devs who made a launch game to master a console with a game they developed while not knowing the final specs of the console and without having the real final hardware to test it until the very end of the development. It's impossible. To release a launch game on time is a big achievement and even more if it's a very good game and already looks georgeous compared to 99% of all the other games released it's a huge achivement. Insomniac, Team Asobi and Bluepoint did a great job. The next ones will be Ratchet, Horizon 2, Gran Turismo 7, God of War and so on, all of them to be released during the next year.
 
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XXL

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You should probably play some games on PC for once in your life.

Have you seen the requirements for games on PC, since you seem to have limited to no idea what you are talking about?

What if I told you more people have powerful rigs than people have ps5s.

As of 2018 1.14% Steam User play games at 4K. 3.12% play at 1440p.


PC is great, but lets not pretend every PC is a beast. Lol.
 

yurinka

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As of 2018 1.14% Steam User play games at 4K. 3.12% play at 1440p.


PC is great, but lets not pretend every PC is a beast. Lol.
You can get the updated data here:


During October 2020:
-2.30% of Steam players did use 4K
-65.67% 1080p
-86.02% play at 1080p or under that

So as of today almost nobody plays at 4K (and who knows at what visual settings and FPS) in PC.

Most people play on Steam at 1080p or under that. In February Steam had 95M monthly active users. So it's very likely that there are now more PS5 in houses than 4K PCs in the market only with the launch shipment.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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You can get the updated data here:


During October 2020:
-2.30% of Steam players did use 4K
-6.75% 1440p
-65.67% 1080p

So as of today almost nobody plays at 4K (and who knows at what visual settings and FPS) in PC. Most people play at 1080p or under.
Do you even know how to math?! No wonder your posts don't make the most sense. 3/4 or over 75% of pc players play in 1080p or above.

Then over 3/4 of PC players with at least 2 monitors much higher than single 1080p, if not more, unlike the b.s. you just pulled out of thin air.

At least try not to so disingenuous. Also, how many ps5 games actually play in true native 4K at least 60fps with raytracing, ultra pc settings, and not checkerboard? Hmmmm...Didn't think so....


 
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rnlval

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SC still works on HDD and it's sad that ONLY one sorta example can be given lolz

No PS5 games are made with HDD needed to be supported.
PS5 doesn't have this weakness that the PC has.

I have been since 98 as I told you.
The only obvious is you don't have a clue about me you.
I taste of both waters and find consoles to be overall better get over it.
IF Demon's Souls comes to PC(yearrrrs later) I would hope by then that it looks better than a 2020 console version.
NOTHING available or shown to be coming on PC looks as good as DS or R&C.
PS5 will win best visuals likely for the entirety of the whole generation unless MS wakes up.
Better versions of 3rd party games don't make PS5 inferior as 3rd party games are made for various tech.
PS5 exclusives are the measuring stick and PC doesn't measure up.
Due to Sony's strict DRM controls, Sony artfically stops PS5 games from running from USB 3.0 (5 GBbps) external drive. Sony is controlling your purchased game console's usage.

Star Citizen on HDD runs crap. I have a dedicated 1TB NVMe PCIe 4.0 on ROG Strix X570 motherboard for such cases.

Name a PS5 game that matches Star Citizen's game world scale and graphics.

I don't see anything special about Demon's Souls PS5' graphics e.g..


Also, where's the "next gen" game play from Demon's Souls PS5?
 
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yurinka

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Do you even know how to math?! No wonder your posts don't make the most sense. 3/4 or over 75% of pc players play in 1080p or above.

Then over 3/4 of PC players with at least 2 monitors much higher than single 1080p, if not more, unlike the b.s. you just pulled out of thin air.

At least try not to so disingenuous. Also, how many ps5 games actually play in true native 4K at least 60fps with raytracing, ultra pc settings, and not checkerboard? Hmmmm...Didn't think so....


Yes, I know maths, I'm a game programmer. I mentioned the numbers of 'Primary Display Resolution', which is the resolution of the main (and in most cases only) display that people has.

You are showing the 'Multi Monitor Desktop Resolution', which is the resolution of the desktop (not the display, not game rendered area) when multiple displays are connected (most games use only 1 of these displays). The users of your numbers are also included in my numbers.

I'll tell you in another words: the resolution of the primary (or only when they only have one) display for 86.02% of the Steam has 1080p or under that.

We were talking about game resolutions, not about desktop resolutions.

Due to Sony's strict DRM controls, Sony artfically stops PS5 games from running from USB 3.0 (5 GBbps) external drive. Sony is controlling your purchased game console's usage.
PS5 uses USB 3.2 gen 2 (10Gbps) to use there up to these external HDD or SSD.

The thing is that they implemented it for PS4 games, they will implement it for PS5 games too but a bit later because didn't have time to have it ready for launch. Same goes for using the SDD bay or VRR.

Obviously game companies use DRM, they don't want you to pirate their games. Devs need to eat too.
 
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