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Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart weighs in at a nimble 33GB, "sizes are getting smaller on native PS5 games"

phil_t98

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If you enter the thread you'll get it. It piles the new XSX version 24GB over the 21.1GB XBO version and you can't delete the XBO one. Check the later pages of that thread.



It can start pricey and drop drastically over the years due to being shared in a much wider PC market.

and again the SSD add on will drop for the xbox to, its like people are making out there won't be price drops. yes it maybe expensive at the moment but its available for those who want it
 

phil_t98

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Proprietary memory solutions don't really drop that much, if any. That was the problem with PS Vita that Sony is avoiding here.

Sonys own proprietary memory solution didn't drop in price, remember when other people started producing memory cards for ps1 and were much cheaper
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Sonys own proprietary memory solution didn't drop in price, remember when other people started producing memory cards for ps1 and were much cheaper

That would help as well indeed. I personally bought a $400 160GB CFexpress memory card from Sony for my a7S III to keep up with 4K@120fps / 1080p@240fps 10-bit footage and faster writing for photo burst mode ;) If the add-on is 100% like the internal, I might give it a shot, might, as I don't feel the urge to do so that I now have a good internet speed.
 

Heisenberg007

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Won't believe it until I see it, is this accounting for first day update?
Already have it installed as 33.6GB. Update shouldn't add much if any, it could as well shrink as it replaces older files instead of piling them up.

So, a quick update. Insomniac just pushed the 1.5 GB patch for those who have it preloaded. I've updated the game, and the size hasn't increased after the patch.

Pre-patch:
  • Version: 1.000.007
  • Size: 33.6 GB (I vaguely remember it was 33.7 pre-patch, but I am not 100% sure).

Post-patch:
  • Version: 1.001.000
  • Patch size: 1.5 GB
  • Final size with day-one patch: 33.65 GB
 
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Tschumi

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If you think that console manufacturers do not have guidelines for devs or will not discuss with AA/AAA publishers about what matters to them you are being quite naive.

Developers have a product to make, if they have no reason/no incentive to spend time optimising for size they will just defer it to a future iteration or another game when they can. If you make your own cave troll game and it is 2TB or 1 GB, the latter might have an easier time with other TRC/Sony QA approval requirements for PS5 ;).
I guess you're saying that taking advantage of the filesize limiting compression isn't as, like, plug'n'play as i thought after the deep dive.. that developers have to work at it in good faith..

Fair enough man, thanks, my gif was thoughtful not savage
 

martino

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Pevious entry, so a game of a same genre made by same dev, is 24.5-28 gb depending where you look.
With all the context a linear short game with DA producing simpler assets and textures overall(than more realistic DA) and who advert using all SSD features so far weights 15-25% more.
You could also somewhat compare dark souls 3 to demon's soul remake ( not same dev but I would argue ds3 is bigger with more env) and see that the ps5 game is more than double its size... .
So how did anybody came to this title conclusion when comparing exclusive ps5 games to similar games on the previous gen ?
 

Bo_Hazem

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So, a quick update. Insomniac just pushed the 1.5 GB patch for those who have it preloaded. I've updated the game, and the size hasn't increased after the patch.

Pre-patch:
  • Version: 1.000.007
  • Size: 33.6 GB (I vaguely remember it was 33.7 pre-patch, but I am not 100% sure).

Post-patch:
  • Version: 1.001.000
  • Patch size: 1.5 GB
  • Final size with day-one patch: 33.65 GB

Yup, updates should replace older files on PS5 this time around, not bloat the existing file unnecessarily.

I guess you're saying that taking advantage of the filesize limiting compression isn't as, like, plug'n'play as i thought after the deep dive.. that developers have to work at it in good faith..

Fair enough man, thanks, my gif was thoughtful not savage

Not really, both PS4/5 have access to Kraken and Oodle Texture moving forward, but PS4 version has lesser quality assets (smaller) but have duplicates scattered around the HDD (or even SSD, doesn't change the method). On PS5 you have higher quality assets (bigger) but should not have duplicates at all, which usually result in a smaller file.

Pevious entry, so a game of a same genre made by same dev, is 24.5-28 gb depending where you look.
With all the context a linear short game with DA producing simpler assets and textures overall(than more realistic DA) and who advert using all SSD features so far weights 15-25% more.
You could also somewhat compare dark souls 3 to demon's soul remake ( not same dev but I would argue ds3 is bigger with more env) and see that the ps5 game is more than double its size... .
So how did anybody came to this title conclusion when comparing exclusive ps5 games to similar games on the previous gen ?

Apples to bananas, great. PS5 (3.75GB) vs PS4 (12.91GB):

 
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So, a quick update. Insomniac just pushed the 1.5 GB patch for those who have it preloaded. I've updated the game, and the size hasn't increased after the patch.

Pre-patch:
  • Version: 1.000.007
  • Size: 33.6 GB (I vaguely remember it was 33.7 pre-patch, but I am not 100% sure).

Post-patch:
  • Version: 1.001.000
  • Patch size: 1.5 GB
  • Final size with day-one patch: 33.65 GB
Yeah, adding a patch to a game doesn't nessecerily mean that it's going to make the file size bigger, it could just replace data that is already there. You could even download a patch with the file size being smaller after the patch has been installed because it's optomised the installation.
 

martino

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Yup, updates should replace older files on PS5 this time around, not bloat the existing file unnecessarily.



Not really, both PS4/5 have access to Kraken and Oodle Texture moving forward, but PS4 version has lesser quality assets (smaller) but have duplicates scattered around the HDD (or even SSD, doesn't change the method). On PS5 you have higher quality assets (bigger) but should not have duplicates at all, which usually result in a smaller file.



Apples to bananas, great. PS5 (3.75GB) vs PS4 (12.91GB):

what is banana is to pretend on the base of cross gen games size of next gen games will become smaller when no example of next gen only games support that idea.
 

Bo_Hazem

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what is banana is to pretend on the base of cross gen games size of next gen games will become smaller when no example of next gen only games support that idea.

You're really not getting it. Next gen can be as much as a 300GB game, but without Oodle Texture and Oodle Kraken it can as well be 400-500GB.
 
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martino

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You're really not getting it. Next gen can be as much as a 300GB game, but without Oodle Texture and Oodle Kraken it can as well be 400-500GB.
this is the real apple to bananas comparison that is not even on topic in this thread
Your objective is not to deduce if next gen games will weight more or less but to get your brand worshipping fix saying game will weight less on your favorite hardware than on competition
 

Bo_Hazem

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this is the real apple to bananas comparison that is not even on topic in this thread
Your objective is not to deduce if next gen games will weight more or less but to get your brand worshipping fix saying game will weight less on your favorite hardware than on competition

What are you doing here exactly? Why are you sad? You know that I showed that you used a BS method of comparison, then I showed you a legit PS4 vs PS5 of the very same game but PS5 76% difference in size and yet higher quality. So what else do you want? You should've thanked me for correcting you and moved on but you decided to keep crying.

Also, you know that Kraken and Oodle Texture aren't PS5-exclusive by any means? It just happens that Sony licensed them for devs to use them for free on PS4/5. Any developer can license those on other platforms, but would they bother?
 
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martino

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What are you doing here exactly? Why are you sad? You know that I showed that you used a BS method of comparison, then I showed you a legit PS4 vs PS5 of the very same game but PS5 76% difference in size and yet higher quality. So what else do you want? You should've thanked me for correcting you and moved on but you decided to keep crying.
repeating the same mistake doesn't turn it right...but i will not fight with a lost cause and let you think game size will decrease this gen....
this OP clearly support that idea with next gen opus being 15-25% bigger than previous ps4 one.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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repeating the same mistake doesn't turn it right...but i will not fight with a lost cause and let you think game size will decrease this gen....

When did I say game sizes will decrease? It only means game sizes will pack more for the same size or be smaller than what would they be if designed around HDD.

You'll see both in the future depending on what the studio aiming for.
 

Bo_Hazem

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we'll see but as i said no next gen only game support that idea

It only depends on the studio and what kinda game they wanna make. They can make it even 500GB that you need hours or days to drive/walk across the map or have smaller game design. This has nothing to do with how storage can be efficient using state-of-the-art compression methods.

Anyway, take care.

Insomniac's Community Director:


Yup, no duplicates is a massive deal. Now no premade LOD's is the next step with Nanite or PS5's Geometry Engine of making LOD's on the fly from one single asset. That's another massive headroom to put extremely high quality assets instead of wasting storage on 7-9 levels of details per asset/object/character.
 
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SkylineRKR

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Yes no duplicates is what I've always said to people who kept going on about data sizes being increased on next-gen. No its not. With SSD as a baseline we should see smaller data and so far this is the case. CoD is luckily and outlier and likely developed for last-gen first.
 
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MastaKiiLA

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what is banana is to pretend on the base of cross gen games size of next gen games will become smaller when no example of next gen only games support that idea.
Compression is much better on the PS5, and the devs who are making exclusive games are optimizing things to make the game installs as small as possible. So like for like, the PS5 version will be smaller, simply due to the assets being packed much tighter. You have an Insomniac dev stating this quite clearly. Not sure what you're arguing for, unless you know more than the people making the games.
 

Lysandros

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Yup, no duplicates is a massive deal. Now no premade LOD's is the next step with Nanite or PS5's Geometry Engines of making LOD's on the fly from one single asset. That's another massive headroom to put extremely high quality assets instead of wasting storage on 7-9 levels of details per asset/object/character.
As a side note/slight correction; RDNA/RDNA2 architectures and as result PS5 have only one unified Geometry Engine Bo, i noticed that you often use the plural form about the matter. ;)
 
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Warnen

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1 gb ssd is not ‘well worth it’

You can buy 500gb ssds for 50£$
I just spent $300ish for a fast SSD for my pc, some times you pay for quality. Enjoy the bargain SSD, hope it’s as fast as a thumb drive for ya.
 
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SkylineRKR

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Those prices are still high and PS5 doesn't support NVME yet anyway. I have a T7 in the USB which is where everything PS4 related goes into. So the internal SSD is solely being used for PS5 apps, in that sense it should last longer than my launch PS4 which I upgraded after some 2 years ish. Its not that I keep everything, Control which I platted is kicked off. Destruction Allstars because its a bit dead and shit.
 
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I just spent $300ish for a fast SSD for my pc, some times you pay for quality. Enjoy the bargain SSD, hope it’s as fast as a thumb drive for ya.

Firstly If you are a genuine pc gamer you’ll know ssd speeds mean nothing on pc, especially games.

Secondly 1tb for a proprietary ssd at 220$ is a complete rip off and you know it.

But but ps5 no options right? 😂
 
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Firstly If you are a genuine pc gamer you’ll know ssd speeds mean nothing on pc, especially games.

Secondly 1tb for a proprietary ssd at 220$ is a complete rip off and you know it.

But but ps5 no options right? 😂


If we would apply the PC market to Xbox it would cost around 150$ for a 1TB NVME.

What's really nice about the expansion for Xbox is that it's really convenient. But there's a price to pay to have that.

Something I said earlier is that it would be nice if they sold the SSD case and just let you choose what you want to put into it.
 

Garani

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What are you doing here exactly? Why are you sad? You know that I showed that you used a BS method of comparison, then I showed you a legit PS4 vs PS5 of the very same game but PS5 76% difference in size and yet higher quality. So what else do you want? You should've thanked me for correcting you and moved on but you decided to keep crying.

Also, you know that Kraken and Oodle Texture aren't PS5-exclusive by any means? It just happens that Sony licensed them for devs to use them for free on PS4/5. Any developer can license those on other platforms, but would they bother?
I gotta add another piece of info: Sony does include Kraken and Oodle Texture decoders in hardware, while other platforms (PC included) need to use CPU cycles.
Come on, you come back from a ban and the first thing you feel the need to do is to nit picking an obvious typographical error? And in a thread about R&C, that will never run on a platform of your choice?
 
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Warnen

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Firstly If you are a genuine pc gamer you’ll know ssd speeds mean nothing on pc, especially games.

Secondly 1tb for a proprietary ssd at 220$ is a complete rip off and you know it.

But but ps5 no options right? 😂

don’t worry when they hit ps5 you will do a 180 on the price as usally with the excuse well they will come down eventually…

we all know how it plays out for a Sony fan. Critize until acceptance.. It a loop every time
 
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jroc74

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Do you mean the engine that just made their Geometry take up about 10x less space?
This plus SSD's plus compression should mean the fears of games being 500GB on average should be over. If anything game sizes could be the same just with alot more going on. Cross gen game sizes should be a good example of this, On PS5 at least.
Firstly If you are a genuine pc gamer you’ll know ssd speeds mean nothing on pc, especially games.

Secondly 1tb for a proprietary ssd at 220$ is a complete rip off and you know it.

But but ps5 no options right? 😂
Yup, especially when you look at this:


If we would apply the PC market to Xbox it would cost around 150$ for a 1TB NVME.

What's really nice about the expansion for Xbox is that it's really convenient. But there's a price to pay to have that.

Something I said earlier is that it would be nice if they sold the SSD case and just let you choose what you want to put into it.
Agree, its just pros n cons to each scenario, thats all.
don’t worry when they hit ps5 you will do a 180 on the price as usally with the excuse well they will come down eventually…

we all know how it plays out for a Sony fan. Critize until acceptance.. It a loop every time
You do realize the speeds and overall tech difference between that Series external SSD is like apple n oranges vs the PS5 SSD...right?

No matter how you compare it, its overpriced when you factor everything in....

There is nothing to downplay as far as price. especially when a 7GB/s NVMe is now $20 cheaper than that Series card with retailers marking them all down for some reason. Thats one example of a plus for off the shelf vs proprietary.



Those 7GB/s cards all launched...more expensive than the Series card...and are all now cheaper....

Let that sink in for a minute.
 
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Those 7GB's cards all launched...more expensive than the Series card...and are all now cheaper....

Let that sink in for a minute.

Now imagine what they will cost once Sony enables the expansion. Meanwhile the Seagate drive will more or less remain the same untill there's more competition. And I mean a heck of a lot more competition.
 
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Lethal01

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I was told (By an Indie dev testing it) that it has very poor compression. He called it the only real downside of the engine.

It's literally over 5x better than it's ever been, what indie dev are you talking about?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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As a side note/slight correction; RDNA/RDNA2 architectures and as result PS5 have only one unified Geometry Engine Bo, i noticed that you often use the plural form about the matter. ;)

Yeah confused the plural for with Coherency Engines:


Thanks!
 

truth411

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Now imagine what they will cost once Sony enables the expansion. Meanwhile the Seagate drive will more or less remain the same untill there's more competition. And I mean a heck of a lot more competition.
On top of that, Now imagine as the time moves on and NVME M.2 PCIE Gen 5 SSDs come to the market. Gen 4 M.2s will drop further in Price and QLC Gen 5 M.2s will have much greater capacity and might still be fast enough to plug into the PS5.

Open Market > Proprietary.
 

Riky

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The Storage card has had some decent discounts too, down to £175 at times.


Still expensive compared to other options. They really need to work on lowering the price. I never liked how much Vita memory cards cost and I'll say the same thing here.
 
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Riky

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Still expensive compared to other options. They really need to work on lowering the price. I never liked how much Vita memory cards cost and I'll say the same thing here.

The other options don't actually work though as of now.
 
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Riky

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Well only if you open the XSX up. That internal drive is replaceable but it's more tricky to do that then just buying one of those Seagate drives. No idea when Microsoft will allow you to upgrade the internal drive.

For me that would be pointless, I use the Storage card to move games between multiple machines, I'm sure MS said they would allow other manufacturers and sizes so eventually there will be more options. However for now it's a pretty convenient solution for me as you get more space than the internal drive.
 
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