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Publisher 110 Industries Hints at Possible Shenmue 4 Deal
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Rumor
DragoonWalker
Member
No, there's nothing rose tinted about the groundbreaking greatness of the original games. The detail, the graphics, the realism was unmatched by even Metal Gear Solid and GTA from the same time. It was silly however that we thought Shenmue III would be up to the standards of modern games from a man who hadn't made games in decades with only a modest budget and an small inexperienced team. For Shenmue to be as groundbreaking for us now as it was back then it'd need Ubisoft levels of production.
anthony2690
Banned
I wish sega would just remake the first two games in dragon engine and do their own part 3 that just wraps the series up.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I do not think him not making a game in a while was the problem, but the budget definitely was. To those that tried to harm the Kickstarter (the vitriol against it trying to rally negativity around it, calling it a scam, saying that Sony was going to finance it all just because they gave him a spot at their PlayStation Experience show and thus it was not worth giving the Kickstarter money, etc… great example of console warriors and others just bringing unnecessary negativity to it), well thanks… we will see Star Citizen crossing the $1 Billion mark before we may see Shenmue IV likely… thanks…
MALpractice311
Member
That's the thing that gets me. The first two sold like shit, were meme games before there was such a thing (sailors jokes, etc), and basically cratered Sega. The fact that he had the gall to think that the third game 20 years later would somehow fix all of that and make a ton of money was asinine and reeks of arrogance. He miraculously had a chance to finish the story and instead spent the third game spinning wheels. Fuck him.
jigglet
Banned
Can you elaborate?
Kdad
Member
From poking around back when I said that I seem to recall the founders have little gaming experience...they are mostly ex oil and gas execs, they are based in Switzerland, VC money from Gem out of Cyprus (whos founder was Pandora paper allumni)...just seems like lots of money being spent by people with little gaming background. Adding Trip Hawkins last year which is...a name I guess. Maybe I just don't understand how games and game companies are born
Meicyn
Gold Member
Nah, he got it right. Detail, graphics, and realism doesn’t make for a good game. It didn‘t at the time, and it doesn’t today either. At the end of the day, people want good games. Shenmue was not a good game, it was a $50M tech demo. All anyone ever talked about was the graphics and how ambitious it was.
Nothing can save the series, because the gameplay has always sucked. Shenmue 3 flopped because at the end of the day, the gameplay was trash.
Trumpets
Member
The only thing sucking around here is your posts. I replayed the second game last month and it is stil an amazing experience, putting you in the shoes of the main character like no other game I can think of. There's a reason why so many people were desperate for a third entry. But the Kickstarter budget, some terrible design choices (running draining your stamina) and the lack of new plot means it's better to just pretend 3 doesn't exist.
DKPOWPOW
Member
I see a bunch of whiny bitches in this thread who do not understand the Greatness of Shenmue.
I imagine most of you were in diapers when God's second child arrived. It was as if the angels began singing as soon as you inserted the disc into the Dreamcast.
After the most glorious boot screen ever created at that time, a technological marvel the likes of which the human race had never seen before began to load.
After that, I only remember sheer insurmountable awe. Few games, nigh, few anythings can be mentioned in the same breath as the word Shenmue.
I still believe in the good of this world, and for that I know Shenmue IV shall be made.
But you crybaby bitches with your hate speak deserved to be silenced by the backhand of Lan Di.
Do you not know of how many innovations Shenmue thrust upon the gaming landscape that are still being used today?
How despite it's mixed reception from fools and haterade consuming idiots, so many games heralded by those same soulless heathens masquerade as a mere piece. A fucking sliver of a candy wrapper, of what Shenmue contains.
I imagine most of you were in diapers when God's second child arrived. It was as if the angels began singing as soon as you inserted the disc into the Dreamcast.
After the most glorious boot screen ever created at that time, a technological marvel the likes of which the human race had never seen before began to load.
After that, I only remember sheer insurmountable awe. Few games, nigh, few anythings can be mentioned in the same breath as the word Shenmue.
I still believe in the good of this world, and for that I know Shenmue IV shall be made.
But you crybaby bitches with your hate speak deserved to be silenced by the backhand of Lan Di.
Do you not know of how many innovations Shenmue thrust upon the gaming landscape that are still being used today?
How despite it's mixed reception from fools and haterade consuming idiots, so many games heralded by those same soulless heathens masquerade as a mere piece. A fucking sliver of a candy wrapper, of what Shenmue contains.
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It was a very logical assumption that they’d be getting significant Sony financing in exchange for the exclusivity deal they signed.
Not sure why you’re blaming backers…they did exceed their Kickstarter ask, raising $6+ million in a month. Comparisons to Star Citizen make no sense since at least Star citizen had MTX and in game content sales to boost fundraising.
The real issue is Shenmue 1 & 2 were commercial failures...so not many publishers willing to take the chance at an AAA budget for this game.
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Brigandier
Member
Shenmue 1 and 2 were and are still good games, Good characters, Good story, great action and combat system and the OST is top notch, Main characters had some depth and back story also at the end of S2 the player felt like the story is actually progresing.
At the time amazing visuals and presentation... All of the above were missing from Shenmue 3.
I appreciate Shenmue 1 was a slow burner and turned a lot of people away but AM2 nailed the pacing and atmosphere in Shenmue 2 and made a very competent game all round, Such ashame the American DC userbase didn't get it...
I played them both about 2 years ago and enjoyed them very much after all these years after I got used to the admittedly tank controls that is....
I can't praise Shenmue 2 enough it's a fantastic game but when a 20 year old mechanically dated game is miles better than Shenmue 3 in every possible way other than gwafix you know the series is fucked, I highly doubt Shenmue 4 will ever get released and people who think S4 will wrap up the story well.... Yu Suzuki needs 5 or 6 games lol and we know that's not gonna happen.
At the time amazing visuals and presentation... All of the above were missing from Shenmue 3.
I appreciate Shenmue 1 was a slow burner and turned a lot of people away but AM2 nailed the pacing and atmosphere in Shenmue 2 and made a very competent game all round, Such ashame the American DC userbase didn't get it...
I played them both about 2 years ago and enjoyed them very much after all these years after I got used to the admittedly tank controls that is....
I can't praise Shenmue 2 enough it's a fantastic game but when a 20 year old mechanically dated game is miles better than Shenmue 3 in every possible way other than gwafix you know the series is fucked, I highly doubt Shenmue 4 will ever get released and people who think S4 will wrap up the story well.... Yu Suzuki needs 5 or 6 games lol and we know that's not gonna happen.
Brigandier
Member
Yes you are absolutely correct.
Yes it was, You're opinion isn't a fact.
No it really wasn't at all.
Not all discussion was about graphics at all you're just hating and cherry picking a negative, Yes it was ambitious.
No it didn't, again that's just your opinion you don't speak for everyone, The combat was excellent especially in Shenmue 2, There was some annoying parts in Shenmue 1 like working the forklift job or running around asking random people questions to get hints on where to go next but no it didn't suck.
The gameplay and everything about Shenmue 3 was absolutely awful I could write a post the size of an OT to explain the wrongs about this catastrophic bullshit entry into a series that is absolutely 100% dead thanks to a delusional naïve Yu Suzuki.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
No it was not, it was console warring and some of games blogging media spreading BS as usual. The net effect deterred the backing efforts for sure.
The game could have had raised more and raised over a long period of time… I do not blame the people conned by the “it is a scam, Sony will bail them out, do not need to back it” message cries.
Again, It was announced on stage at E3 as a PlayStation exclusive. I don’t see how ‘console warring’ would have had any impact on fundraising.
Far more likely that people assumed that Sony would be paying a significant amount for exclusivity. Blame clearly lies with DeepSilver for not negotiating a better deal with Sony.
They could also have made a much better game for the $20m budget.
MysticalChaos
Banned
Shenmue 4. Yes please
DragoonWalker
Member
"Good game", "people want good games", "gameplay sucked", "trash", your choice of reductive and simple language tells me you're the kind of person who doesn't appreciate the finer things in life, doesn't appreciate it when someone paves the way for something better. The finer things in life was what Shenmue was so good at emulating, little details that most games did not even attempt. When I say realism, I'm talking about interactivity. Being able to interact more deeply with the gaming world can be rewarding. Immersion is a buzzword these days, but Shenmue really to heart. It is a real life sim, and it takes many steps to put you in the shoes of its protagonist. And it wasn't for no purpose as you suggest, it was to align you with the protagonist better so you would be more invested in his journey. People say Shenmue was tedious, but only because they're use to being spoon-fed on a yellow brick road. Most big budget games even today just ask you to go there and kill thing, no matter what reason was, over and over. Is not that its own kind of tedium? Shenmue wanted you to kill as well, but only one person. And to do that you had to investigate every corner of the world, and follow the clues you squeezed from every person you met. You had to build your fighting skills up by learning from the right people and practice your moves (yet another way it integrated its system organically into the diegetic game world), not just put in some skill points into a tree like every damn game these days. People praise games today when they have elaborate quests and detailed NPC interactions, well Shenmue was built around these things from the start. And then it would ask you to stop and marvel at the little things around you. By the end of the game you knew about the world and its inhabitants intimately.
Why do games chase after ray tracing? Why do games have inverse kinematics? Why do open world games have dynamic systems? Weather? NPC routines? You're right, these do no make "good games", but you can bet when coupled with meaningful mechanics, people care about them because it hooks them into the world. Why do you think Rockstar or Bethesda, makers of some of the most successful games ever, goes to great lengths to fill their games with "useless" details and functions when no one else does it and gamers might not even notice?
Shenmue 3 was behind the times, but Shenmue 1&2 were so far ahead it's not even funny.
GamesDontSuck
Member
Make Shenmue 4 but let it be the end of the saga.
Shenmue 4: Ryo gets his revenge baby!
Shenmue 4: Ryo gets his revenge baby!
Henry Panic
Banned
11 who?
Has that studio released anything of note?
Has that studio released anything of note?
DKPOWPOW
Member
Yes. This one knows TRUTH.
Though I still enjoyed Shenmue III.
I hope if 110 does make IV, they put more of a investment into it than what we saw with III.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Unless it was mentioned, and I am pretty sure they denied Sony was involved much more than that (they got a spotlight and a bit of help with marketing and restructured their work by being exclusive to PC and PS4), it was baseless FUD.
No, blames goes also to people that kept spreading BS and FUD fundamentally because they did not like that title was getting attention at a Sony only event (despite being on PC too… mmh… I wonder what platform was missing
…).Yeah well, that we know. The original games had a way way bigger budget.
Kokoloko85
Member
Im down. It will probably take a few games to finish the story. Wish it has the combat of the old games
Unless it was mentioned, and I am pretty sure they denied Sony was involved much more than that (they got a spotlight and a bit of help with marketing and restructured their work by being exclusive to PC and PS4), it was baseless FUD.
No, blames goes also to people that kept spreading BS and FUD fundamentally because they did not like that title was getting attention at a Sony only event (despite being on PC too… mmh… I wonder what platform was missing
Yeah well, that we know. The original games had a way way bigger budget.
Look, you’re barking up the wrong tree here
See that plot? shows crowdfunding history for games. You get a sharp ramp up in the first few days. Higher for Shenmue since it’s got core, nostalgia filled fans. Then for much of the KS window, rate of contributions slow dramatically. You only get a spike in the last few days as the word gets out on social media and people jump in last minute so as not to FOMO.
In essence, there’s absolutely no scenario where they’d have raised much more money even if you extended for a month.
I’ll also point out to you that the initial KS goal was $2million and they were very pleased with the final amount raised.
Also, NOBODY is dumb enough to sign away lifetime exclusivity merely for E3 spotlight and marketing. They negotiated some funding from Sony. This Eurogamer article confirms Sony and Deep Silver provided some funding, so you’re wrong.
The overall budget they got was somewhere around $20 mln. That should have been sufficient to at least make a decent entry. Hellblade was made with approx $10mln, for example, and Shenmue 3 doesn’t meet that level of production values.
Time to face reality and stop blaming console warriors for what turned out to be a mediocre game.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I will still blame those that spread fud, including some in the game media that were raising FUD about its funding quite early on, and helped reduce the total the game could have raised. If they had raised $10-15 Million or more you would have gotten a far better game: content costs money to make, content make to 2020 standards costs a LOT more to make than late 90’s graphics.Look, you’re barking up the wrong tree here
See that plot? shows crowdfunding history for games. You get a sharp ramp up in the first few days. Higher for Shenmue since it’s got core, nostalgia filled fans. Then for much of the KS window, rate of contributions slow dramatically. You only get a spike in the last few days as the word gets out on social media and people jump in last minute so as not to FOMO.
In essence, there’s absolutely no scenario where they’d have raised much more money even if you extended for a month.
I’ll also point out to you that the initial KS goal was $2million and they were very pleased with the final amount raised.
Also, NOBODY is dumb enough to sign away lifetime exclusivity merely for E3 spotlight and marketing. They negotiated some funding from Sony. This Eurogamer article confirms Sony and Deep Silver provided some funding, so you’re wrong.
The overall budget they got was somewhere around $20 mln. That should have been sufficient to at least make a decent entry. Hellblade was made with approx $10mln, for example, and Shenmue 3 doesn’t meet that level of production values.
Time to face reality and stop blaming console warriors for what turned out to be a mediocre game.
When Shenmue II arrived to the States only on Xbox I put my money where my mouth was and bought an Xbox, people that spent their time reacting to the excitement of the announcement angrily and started raising all sorts of fud (“please do not donate, it is a scam” was not far off) certainly did not help. Tell yourself what you want if you think there was no console warring over it…
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They made the game with $20 million...higher than your $10 - $15 mln mark. So your excuse doesn't hold water.
It was announced on Sony's E3 stage. Nobody got discouraged from crowdfunding because RogerXbox360720 on Twitter told them it was a scam.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
DeepSilver money + Kickstarter money, increase the latter increase the total.
Oh yeah sure, word of mouth matters nothing, gaming publications not pushing it but pushing against it with FUD about funding matters nothing…
shenmue mugen
Member
...................
Meicyn
Gold Member
Okay, I’ll bite.
Been playing games since the Commodore 64 era. I’ve played a wide variety of titles and have experienced the struggle of having to create boot discs with specific autoexec.bat and config.sys files depending on the game. I played the original Elite, a game attempting to give you the freedom and experience of futuristic space travel in the early 80s. I also played Wing Commander, a game that pushed PC hardware to its limits in 1990 in a time where the concept of buying a soundcard for your computer was novel, and having 1 MB of video memory was impressive, all so you could play this cinematic (at the time) experience.
I’ve played simulation games like MicroProse’s Red Storm Rising, a title based around Tom Clancy’s Cold War era book featuring a fictional WW3 where NATO and the Warsaw Pact collide, and you try to silently control a US submarine trying to turn the tides of war sinking enemy fleets. I currently play Stellaris, an exceedingly detailed and complex space empire simulation that most consider overly complicated. I consider myself a relatively patient gamer.
I’ve played Richard Garriot’s Ultima series, including the oft-praised Ultima 7 which is a title with numerous NPCs whom you can chat up, that all have in-game schedules on what they do throughout the day and night. The game has interactive systems where you can watch an NPC perform the in-game steps to bake bread… and then you can do that yourself. If you want. You can rummage through containers if you’d like. It’s all presented in isometric view, but it’s a fully realized world. You have a main story and goals, but you’re left to figure it all out by interacting with that world, a world that exists and operates, but doesn’t revolve around you. The NPCs, wildlife, and monsters have their own rudimentary lives. Much of what you attribute to Shenmue as being groundbreaking was done a very long time ago.
See, I like immersive games. But the immersion has to be complimented by good gameplay. Shenmue was an incredible technical achievement when it was released. But it lacked in the fundamentals that matter most. The sales figures despite the heavy marketing reflect that. The rerelease of the old games revealed to most nostalgic gamers how poorly the first two Shenmue games aged.
Graphics can help push boundaries and increase immersion, but as time goes on, the visuals can’t do the heavy lifting anymore. Seeing Ryo open a drawer and physically hold a fully modeled lightbulb was neat to see, instead of the abstraction you would experience with most other older games when you’d interact with containers. Shenmue was a 10/10 as a technical marvel on Dreamcast. The soundtrack was pretty solid too, and I still listen to the Shenmue Orchestra soundtrack that released before the game came out, to this day. But the game isn’t fun.
Yu Suzuki had a golden opportunity to make Shenmue 3 a good game and finish the story he was trying to tell. Hell, I even contributed to the Kickstarter, naive enough to think maybe he‘d focus on what’s important. After all, he made Virtua Fighter. He made Space Harrier. Great games, timeless despite their age. But he once again, failed in the fundamentals. That shows a complete disregard for what is most important in gaming… good gameplay. Now, we are left with what will likely be a forever unfinished story, a trilogy that will continue to be touted by a small band of Sega fans that can’t let go of the past as some masterpiece that apparently only the chosen can understand, all while the rest of us are looking at it and aren’t willing to go “but it was good for its time” and won’t accept immersion as a replacement for fun.
Again, Yakuza grabbed the good bits of Shenmue and made a better product. As have other titles. A shame Yu Suzuki couldn’t do the same.
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I honestly enjoyed Shenmue 3 for what it was, they simply didn't have the budget to prototype and reinvent the gameplay, the team was probably not even skilled enough to do so.
They simply created a sequel stucked in the late 90s/early 2000s gameplay wise with a modern but average graphical presentation.
The biggest mistake was the boring and unconsequential main plot, something that Suzuki could have avoided even while being budget constrained.
The problem with a sequel is that it's a niche series with an old fanbase that won't accept anything less than something with the production values of a Yakuza game, but those games took almost two decades of iterations to get where they are now and a considerable backing from a big publisher.
They simply created a sequel stucked in the late 90s/early 2000s gameplay wise with a modern but average graphical presentation.
The biggest mistake was the boring and unconsequential main plot, something that Suzuki could have avoided even while being budget constrained.
The problem with a sequel is that it's a niche series with an old fanbase that won't accept anything less than something with the production values of a Yakuza game, but those games took almost two decades of iterations to get where they are now and a considerable backing from a big publisher.
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Keihart
Member
this, the only thing i really missed on 3 was the old combat. The new one sucks, the rest felt like a sequel released right after the second game.
Little Chicken
Member
Shenmue 3 was so bad that I feel like it should just rerelease a remake of Shenmue 1 with new content and remove the awful "job" section.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Shenmue 3 proved this IP needs a complete overhaul to be relevant in todays world. 1 and 2 were both crazy ambitious titles, allowing us all to overlook some of their major flaws, and be in awe of them. 3 had nothing ambitious at all about it, nothing to be in awe of, nothing new brought to the table.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
+ Sony money. You’re studiously aiming to mislead and misinform by omitting that.
Shibuya drew up the budget themselves. There’s no indication from them that they were dissatisfied with the KS amount raised and in fact the KS narrative was extremely positive. Heck, the GAF thread here was absolutely giddy at the amount raised.
Oh yeah sure, word of mouth matters nothing, gaming publications not pushing it but pushing against it with FUD about funding matters nothing…
I mean, the fact that you can’t provide evidence of widely read gaming publications sabotaging the Kickstarter or even threads pushing that narrative clearly indicates you’re making this up
Gamezone
Gold Member
Shenmue fans didn't need anything new to the table, but Shenmue 3 ended up way worse than the first two games.
MasterDerico
Member
Same for The last of Us and From Software fans...But at least I would be happy to be in Sonic and Shemue room!
BbMajor7th
Member
That's the real kicker for me: Shenmue 3 was a project floated on the affection (and finance) of fans who'd been left hanging for two decades. Suzuki was obliged to deliver some solid narrative pay-offs for all that support and from what I can gather they barely advanced the story at all. He won't get another chance now - 'fool me once' and all that.
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Spaceman292
Banned
I'm still amazed by the hubris
ShadyAcshuns
Member
I know a lot of people don't care for Shenmue and never have, but to hell with those people! I want a series of games to finish the story, as unlikely as it is to happen.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I think some of the design choices from Shemue 3 were less to do with budget and more to do with crappy game designers. For example the insane stamina system that makes the simple act of moving from points A to B a form of suffering. Along with the combat system. The game also had a large amount of shops and NPC's that served little purpose. Could have trimmed those down and focused on improving the overall quality.
Despite the failings of Shenmue 3 and there being very little story until essentially the final dungeon lol, I'd like the saga to finish so would buy a 4th entry. I also trust they'd learn from the clear failings of 3 to deliver a more focused and polished experience.
Brigandier
Member
Sadly no as I don't trust Yu Suzuki.
He never even played 1 and 2 to refresh his memory before development for 3 started which I find ridiculous but also arrogant and for a director wreckless.
I have said since 3 came out that it seemed like he forgot much of the story and Ryos character and behaviour as Ryo was a total pussy in 3 when he was a formidable fighter by the end of 2.
Unless he brings back the Yakuza director who worked on S1 and S2 I don't expect 4 to be worth a damn.