• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

News Analysis PS5's DualSense has a RealTek audio chip, and Haptic Feedback uses sound effects!

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
Oct 30, 2020
197
368
290
Wow, Cool, I use the DS4 on the PC and Nintendo Switch all the time, if the DualSense can use at least some of his features in the PC that will be amazing.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Nymphae

Banned
Jun 3, 2013
14,670
22,901
1,235
Canada
I actually hated the controller speaker for the entirety of this gen. I'm sure someone came up with a gimmicky use for it, but for me it was just a mostly invisible piece of hardware that occasionally made me go "did you hear that? Where is that...oh. Can I turn that off? Nice"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
13,514
66,068
945
35
Salalah, Oman
I believe they said it will work with most "good quality" headphones and I'm sure their own current best gaming headphones (platnium is this right?) are classed as good quality. Its to do with frequency response I think. They say in that Sony booklet Bo posted that one of the top recommended headphones for 3D audio are their 1000XM3 headphones, which are €270 just now on amazon.

I think you mixed up between the gaming section and 360 Reality Audio. If it fully supports WH-1000XM4, I'll buy it!

What are the chances for the PS4 games get a patch to use the Dualsense?
In Death Stranding will be great to feel the diferent surfaces of the ground and the weight of the cargo with the adaptitive trigers.

Not sure if they would, but would be nice. But maybe they can easily do it in a patch? Not sure.

I am a bit surprised the pulse headsets sold out. I really thought I would have been able to pick one up in store when I pick up the console.
Tell me about it, I was going to pre order but then decided to come on gaf and ask stuff about it. Was too late by the end of it.

Yeah for launch stuff it's better to get it ASAP. But no need for the FOMO, you'll get it eventually. I wasn't gonna get it first, but hype made me buy extra controller, charging station, Pulse 3D. I play alone, no one plays with me at home, but because I can have long gaming sessions for more than 24+ hours sometimes, it's better to have one ready ;)

Wow, Cool, I use the DS4 on the PC and Nintendo Switch all the time, if the DualSense can use at least some of his features in the PC that will be amazing.

I can see it becoming famous on PC, but all depends if it's fully compatible with Xbox games.

Everything leads me to believe they have absolutely nailed this controller

Man, they went with (you don't know you need something until you try it). Crazy!

I actually hated the controller speaker for the entirety of this gen. I'm sure someone came up with a gimmicky use for it, but for me it was just a mostly invisible piece of hardware that occasionally made me go "did you hear that? Where is that...oh. Can I turn that off? Nice"

Yeah same here, turned them off. But if you don't use headsets, they are very nice actually. I play only with headsets since 2007 as I prefer high volume and for immersion.
 
Last edited:

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,189
3,741
725
Yeah they fold.
I’ll try the platinum tomorrow against the pulses. I’ll let you know. This guy compares but it’s not the most technical review. I get that these aren’t audiophile grade headsets but he’s comparing the platinum without the 3d update so the source isn’t the same and the difference hes hearing is probably from the processing. UNLESS 3D pulse has extra or better tech @$99

 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
15,162
22,086
615
I’ll try the platinum tomorrow against the pulses. I’ll let you know. This guy compares but it’s not the most technical review. I get that these aren’t audiophile grade headsets but he’s comparing the platinum without the 3d update so the source isn’t the same and the difference hes hearing is probably from the processing. UNLESS 3D pulse has extra or better tech @$99

Do you have a ps5 to try the 3d headset? i'm mostly interested about the performance on console, i barely use headphones to watch films or to listen music, i'm not really an audiophile.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
13,514
66,068
945
35
Salalah, Oman
Do you have a ps5 to try the 3d headset? i'm mostly interested about the performance on console, i barely use headphones to watch films or to listen music, i'm not really an audiophile.

Both of us will have PS5 and Pulse 3D. He's more educated and experienced though.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: GymWolf

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
15,162
22,086
615
Both of us will have PS5 and Pulse 3D. He's more educated and experienced though.


So you do actually work for sony :ROFLMAO:
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
13,514
66,068
945
35
Salalah, Oman


So you do actually work for sony :ROFLMAO:

Nah, I've posted earlier that we have all accessories available for preorder. I've paid upfront, no free preordering here:



PS5 (215 OMR), extra controller (I think 32 OMR), Charging Station (12.9 OMR), Pulse 3D (45 OMR) = ~304.9 OMR ($792.74 USD).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lysandros

Numenorean

Member
Mar 26, 2020
51
65
200
iPhone phones from 7 onwards already do something like that. Its called Taptic Engine and its awesome. Every sound has a kind of vibration that its like “feeling” the sound
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
13,514
66,068
945
35
Salalah, Oman
This begs the question now, how can other companies justify the cost of their controllers now? DualSense is packed full of tech, for $70. Switch Pro controller seems like a scam at this point, no?
For real though, how XSX controller not even have a gyroscope?????? In this day and age, it's sad.

No gyro, no touch pad, no battery. But some people love basic stuff.

Ok but can i use the my dual shock 4 for 2nd player?

Only PS4 games, and why the downgrade? Also we want devs to have full support of DS and not be bothered by DS4 dragging it back.

iPhone phones from 7 onwards already do something like that. Its called Taptic Engine and its awesome. Every sound has a kind of vibration that its like “feeling” the sound

Yes, but very, very tiny in comparison.

As I remember, in Playstation ecosystem, the old controllers never able to work on newer gen. I don't know why you're expecting it will be now..

Yup, I would argue that I would rather not have BC at all and go full speed into full potential instead of wasting time on old tech. But some people like playing old games, not sure why.
 

Calverz

Member
Apr 27, 2014
1,571
2,807
650
No gyro, no touch pad, no battery. But some people love basic stuff.



Only PS4 games, and why the downgrade? Also we want devs to have full support of DS and not be bothered by DS4 dragging it back.



Yes, but very, very tiny in comparison.



Yup, I would argue that I would rather not have BC at all and go full speed into full potential instead of wasting time on old tech. But some people like playing old games, not sure why.
I dont want to spend £60 on a 2nd controller.
Also ds4 has same number of buttons
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
13,514
66,068
945
35
Salalah, Oman
I dont want to spend £60 on a 2nd controller.
Also ds4 has same number of buttons

Don't need to, you can use the wire included or plug a cheap 2.0 USD extender and use it while charging after 10-20 hours of continues playing to play another 10-20 hours.
 
Last edited:

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
4,645
6,338
830
Denmark
I've argued it before, and I'll gladly do it again. The decision from Sony to block the DS4 controller in newer games is a business decision with one focus - maximizing profits. There's little to no technical reason for it, and I can easily understand why it would annoy someone.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
13,514
66,068
945
35
Salalah, Oman
I've argued it before, and I'll gladly do it again. The decision from Sony to block the DS4 controller in newer games is a business decision with one focus - maximizing profits. There's little to no technical reason for it, and I can easily understand why it would annoy someone.

Of course they can support it if they want to. But for gamers interested in full support of DualSense and the budget 3rd party devs have many might skip doing the extra work to maximize the experience of the new DS, making its features becoming more gimmicky than immersive. They didn't support DS3 on PS4 as well, nor xbox supported 360 controller.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeepEnigma

Antelope

Member
Oct 10, 2020
155
352
260
I've argued it before, and I'll gladly do it again. The decision from Sony to block the DS4 controller in newer games is a business decision with one focus - maximizing profits. There's little to no technical reason for it, and I can easily understand why it would annoy someone.
True. So is the decision to offer the same controller with a next gen console. Both have their pros and cons. I personally think the PS4 controller had a lot of room for improvement, so I’m happy to get a new controller this gen.
 
Last edited:

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,189
3,741
725
As I remember, in Playstation ecosystem, the old controllers never able to work on newer gen. I don't know why you're expecting it will be now..

Ps1 to ps2 did. Ps2 to ps3 did with an (edit: official Sony adapter)adapter. I’m just speaking the official pack in controller not others because then you need a chart. ;)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: NeoLed and Bo_Hazem

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,189
3,741
725
I've argued it before, and I'll gladly do it again. The decision from Sony to block the DS4 controller in newer games is a business decision with one focus - maximizing profits. There's little to no technical reason for it, and I can easily understand why it would annoy someone.

There is a ton of technical reason for it. The Dualsense itself has a lot of new tech in it. Now, in order for Sony to get people behind what they are trying to do with their controller(audio,haptics,triggers...) maybe they want as many people on board as possible since the devs are throwing their support at it too. If the Dualsense wasn’t packed with new tech I would agree with 100%. But they did go all out or at least, it appears they have. They also made the controller $70 and based on the early feedback it could/should be more.
When you see comments from people wondering how developers are going to support and implement these new features long term, this is the answer to how you go about on that path.
But all other peripherals like wheels and fight sticks are still compatible at least so it’s not a money grab in my opinion.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
4,645
6,338
830
Denmark
Of course they can support it if they want to. But for gamers interested in full support of DualSense and the budget 3rd party devs have many might skip doing the extra work to maximize the experience of the new DS, making its features becoming more gimmicky than immersive. They didn't support DS3 on PS4 as well, nor xbox supported 360 controller.

Every single PS5 console will have a DualSense controller as the primary controller, so I doubt supporting older controllers would be an issue. Supporting older controllers is a question of pleasing the users who like to couch-game with their buddies, but don't like to spend 70$ for each controller needed.

The DS4 not working on the PS5 is a software limitation grounded in profit maximization. It's not a big deal for me, since I don't have DS4 controllers lying around, so I need to buy new controllers anyways, but for others, I can definitely understand why they'd be annoyed.

True. So is the decision to offer the same controller with a next gen console. Both have their pros and cons.

Absolutely.

FrankWza FrankWza

I see where you're heading with the argument, but I don't think it's valid, considering every single PS5 gamer will use the DualSense controller when available. The DS4 would only be used for the occasions, where multiple people are in the same room, but with not enough controllers. That won't ruin the adaption.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,189
3,741
725
Every single PS5 console will have a DualSense controller as the primary controller, so I doubt supporting older controllers would be an issue. Supporting older controllers is a question of pleasing the users who like to couch-game with their buddies, but don't like to spend 70$ for each controller needed.

The DS4 not working on the PS5 is a software limitation grounded in profit maximization. It's not a big deal for me, since I don't have DS4 controllers lying around, so I need to buy new controllers anyways, but for others, I can definitely understand why they'd be annoyed.



Absolutely.

FrankWza FrankWza

I see where you're heading with the argument, but I don't think it's valid, considering every single PS5 gamer will use the DualSense controller when available. The DS4 would only be used for the occasions, where multiple people are in the same room, but with not enough controllers. That won't ruin the adaption.

Well, most, if not every consumer product is grounded in maximizing profits. But I hear what you’re saying. I just don’t think it applies here. I think it’s about getting as many people on board with the new tech as possible. Do they need to sell more Dualsense? Yeah, of course. It probably cost them a fortune to produce and develop. I think it’s a fair price for some awesome tech. And if they wanted to be assholes about it, all PS4 controllers would be incompatible. It’s really just the DualShock that is. I really believe it’s being done because it makes the experience better, even for couch player 2. That’s the guy who used to get the mad catz controller back in the day.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
4,645
6,338
830
Denmark
Well, most, if not every consumer product is grounded in maximizing profits. But I hear what you’re saying. I just don’t think it applies here. I think it’s about getting as many people on board with the new tech as possible. Do they need to sell more Dualsense? Yeah, of course. It probably cost them a fortune to produce and develop. I think it’s a fair price for some awesome tech. And if they wanted to be assholes about it, all PS4 controllers would be incompatible. It’s really just the DualShock that is. I really believe it’s being done because it makes the experience better, even for couch player 2. That’s the guy who used to get the mad catz controller back in the day.

I honestly think it's about profits. Allowing the DS4 to be used for some games, but not all, on the PS5 is an odd decision. It makes me think that Sony is actively blocking the DS4 controllers in the PS5 games.

The DualSense is a better controller and the experience for player 2 will be better if he uses that, but having a 'mad catz controller' is infinitely better than having no controller, if the host didn't want to buy a brand new DualSense just to play FIFA against his buddy every two weeks.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,189
3,741
725
I honestly think it's about profits. Allowing the DS4 to be used for some games, but not all, on the PS5 is an odd decision. It makes me think that Sony is actively blocking the DS4 controllers in the PS5 games.

The DualSense is a better controller and the experience for player 2 will be better if he uses that, but having a 'mad catz controller' is infinitely better than having no controller, if the host didn't want to buy a brand new DualSense just to play FIFA against his buddy every two weeks.

I’m not saying DualShock is a mad catz experience, I’m just saying that’s a very specific scenario that I don’t think is important enough to warrant Dualsense compatibility. It’s about profits too, it has to be to an extent, but I don’t see it as a corporate greed scenario because I think the features are different enough. I don’t think DS3 worked on DS4 and they are closer in features than DS4 and Dualsense. Nobody cared because DS3 was terrible.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
4,645
6,338
830
Denmark
I’m not saying DualShock is a mad catz experience, I’m just saying that’s a very specific scenario that I don’t think is important enough to warrant Dualsense compatibility. It’s about profits too, it has to be to an extent, but I don’t see it as a corporate greed scenario because I think the features are different enough. I don’t think DS3 worked on DS4 and they are closer in features than DS4 and Dualsense. Nobody cared because DS3 was terrible.

My point is, that it looks like they've actively blocked the compability. It would've been easy for them to present information on the screen to the user using the DS4 that said something like "Note that you're using a legacy controller. Not all features are supported" and let the users decide for themselves.

I think we disagree on the motivations, ultimately.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,189
3,741
725
My point is, that it looks like they've actively blocked the compability. It would've been easy for them to present information on the screen to the user using the DS4 that said something like "Note that you're using a legacy controller. Not all features are supported" and let the users decide for themselves.

I think we disagree on the motivations, ultimately.

I do agree it’s motivated by profit, to an externt. I think It’s far more than just 1:1 sell more controllers though, it’s about let’s get more people using this new tech and features. So it’s an investment as much as immediate profit seeking. I’m saying that if they were going to be motivated strictly by profits, the couch co-op or party people is a niche market in 2020 and going forward compared to the core customers and isn’t going to annoy enough people to make any kind of dent anyway. Same thing happened last gen when more legacy products stopped being supported.
And they definitely actively blocked it, I agree. But that has a negative connotation to it by default which is kind of unfair Because most other peripherals are compatible from PS4-PS5 and DS4 is usable on PS5 with PS4 games at least. The Dualsense is that big of a leap over DS4 that I think they get a pass on this.
 
  • Thoughtful
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem and TBiddy

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
4,645
6,338
830
Denmark
You say a lot of sensible things. I like that. I wish more discussions were like this.

As I wrote earlier, personally I'm not really affected by this, but I can absolutely understand why it could annoy people, and I don't agree with the decision Sony has made. But then again, there could be a reason that I'm not a top executive at Sony..
 
  • Like
Reactions: FrankWza

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
46,265
11,990
2,000
My point is, that it looks like they've actively blocked the compability. It would've been easy for them to present information on the screen to the user using the DS4 that said something like "Note that you're using a legacy controller. Not all features are supported" and let the users decide for themselves.

I think we disagree on the motivations, ultimately.

I'm not sure how anybody can disagree with you on the motives to be honest. It's clearly to make more money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TBiddy

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
47,288
95,881
1,405
I'm not sure how anybody can disagree with you on the motives to be honest. It's clearly to make more money.

I think the profit margins with what's in the new controller are far thinner than a 7+ year old controller now (new sales). It is only a $5-$10 difference in price on average, but much newer tech down to Realtech chips inside. Again, new sales taken into account. It may be partially, but I still feel it is more for support to make it staple, and it seems to be working in that arena.
 
Last edited:

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
12,400
7,196
1,365
I'm not sure how anybody can disagree with you on the motives to be honest. It's clearly to make more money.

I think its more for maximizing impact from the featureset of the new controller. I mean, they likely make more profit per unit on the DS4 and going forwards DualSense is a key differentiator for the PS5. Its not just an ergonomic change, its required to show of the PS5's value proposition.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Aug 18, 2017
9,956
7,147
895
Mount Olympus
www.neogaf.com
These features are out of no where this should say something about SONY here’s an already perfected controller and they’re bettering it for the player that’s what you want from next gen consoles.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,189
3,741
725
I think the profit margins with what's in the new controller are far thinner than a 7+ year old controller now (new sales). It is only a $5-$10 difference in price on average, but much newer tech down to Realtech chips inside. Again, new sales taken into account. It may be partially, but I still feel it is more for support to make it staple, and it seems to be working in that arena.

the amount of tech in this controller makes it a steal @$69.99 in 2020. That’s not even factoring in R&D, Just what we’re getting compared to the rest of the market. Other than being modular and/or having back buttons/paddles there isn’t much more you could ask for. And those features make 3rd party controllers price jump by 100%. Look at the Astro PS4 controller.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
46,265
11,990
2,000
I think its more for maximizing impact from the featureset of the new controller. I mean, they likely make more profit per unit on the DS4 and going forwards DualSense is a key differentiator for the PS5. Its not just an ergonomic change, its required to show of the PS5's value proposition.

But why not allow the DS4 work with the PS5, but push and advertise to people that getting a DS5 would be a lot better in the end?