• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PS5 will have BT 5.1 and Wi-Fi 6 802.11 AX standard

ethomaz

Banned
Haven't there been other patents people here were 100% sure were related to the PS5 but ended up being for a different "console" ? The screen people thought were going to go on the controller or something?
That is not patent.
That is a certification to sell a device... without that you can't sell your game console in these countries.

PS. That is only the telecommunications certification (about the radio frequencies)... there are others certifications too.
 
Last edited:

Thirty7ven

Banned
How are you reaching that "1ms latency and under" number?

Went on google and first hit or second was https://www.broadcom.com/info/wifi6e

Might be wrong of course. But I've read 75% reduction in other places, so that's pretty great considering an absurd amount of people play over wi fi.

Another good read: https://www.pcgamer.com/why-gamers-should-care-about-wi-fi-6/

Just to be clear.... this isn't a game changing feature. But since we're buying new hardware, and it's next gen, and it might be that we stuck with the box for the next six years or so... it's nice to see improvements even at this level.

<--- real life user Range is the biggest difference, speed and latency is nearly identical. Please don't hype your self into thinking its as good as a wired connection. I still plug my stuff in if I want to download game.

Awesome the PS5 has it but manage your expectations. I had to check the specs on my laptop to see that it actually had it since it was so unnoticeable.

You need the router too, not just the laptop. That's why you get same results as your brother.
 
Last edited:
With current gen consoles, wifi and routers right now cable is better option, this is why I use cable on my base PS4 because current gen wifi (even older in base PS4, it's 2.4GHz only) gives way worse speed and latency.

With PS5 and wifi 6 router will be a better option to use wireless than cable because it will give way better speed and same latency.
So would someone with a series X or PC also get those same benefits you speak of? I'm curious if this is some secret sauces or just another case of fanboyism. Because you still think wireless is faster and lower latency, even though solid evidence has been shown to you, several times now. Can you tell me why wired headphones will always sound better than wireless? Why does your phone charge faster via cable, vs wireless charging? Why can you transfer files faster via physical media, vs wirelessly? Why are wired mice more responsive, with lower latency, compared to a wireless one? Why do power lines go directly to your house, instead of wireless energy? Do you see where I'm going with this?


I'm honestly not trying to argue man. But I would like you to at least take a step back and smell the facts.
 

LOLCats

Banned
imo, wifi6 big benefits are with mesh networks and AX nodes have deidicated radios for wireless backhaul. thats big issue with AC meshes right now, wireless backhaul takes up half bandwidth.
 

TBiddy

Member
Went on google and first hit or second was https://www.broadcom.com/info/wifi6e

Might be wrong of course. But I've read 75% reduction in other places, so that's pretty great considering an absurd amount of people play over wi fi.

Further down they talk about "Broadcom’s Mobile Connectivity VP Vijay Nagarajan illustrating BCM4389’s Wi-Fi 6E latency steadily around 2 msec. ". I assume this is best case and even then it's more than double the latency than regular ethernet.

Intel were indeed talking about 75% reduction down to an average of about 7ms.

Don't get me wrong, Wifi6 is great, but I've got a feeling that for those where it really makes a difference, those people would already be running cables.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Further down they talk about "Broadcom’s Mobile Connectivity VP Vijay Nagarajan illustrating BCM4389’s Wi-Fi 6E latency steadily around 2 msec. ". I assume this is best case and even then it's more than double the latency than regular ethernet.

Intel were indeed talking about 75% reduction down to an average of about 7ms.

Don't get me wrong, Wifi6 is great, but I've got a feeling that for those where it really makes a difference, those people would already be running cables.

I edited the post to make it clear that I don't think this is a big deal. But it is nice to have. A lot of people play over wi fi, and considering the PS5 will be around for the next 6/7 years, it's a cool feature.

Most people have ~30ms latency from their TV sets alone, so if you add another ~20ms latency over wi fi, it starts to add up.
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

Banned
So would someone with a series X or PC also get those same benefits you speak of? I'm curious if this is some secret sauces or just another case of fanboyism. Because you still think wireless is faster and lower latency, even though solid evidence has been shown to you, several times now. Can you tell me why wired headphones will always sound better than wireless? Why does your phone charge faster via cable, vs wireless charging? Why can you transfer files faster via physical media, vs wirelessly? Why are wired mice more responsive, with lower latency, compared to a wireless one? Why do power lines go directly to your house, instead of wireless energy? Do you see where I'm going with this?


I'm honestly not trying to argue man. But I would like you to at least take a step back and smell the facts.
Don't generalize wireless.

802.11AX (WiFi 6) almost eliminate the latency difference between wireless and wired.
Not just that the low latency is beneficial to remove the dizziness of AR/VR experiences.

With WiFi 6 gaming via wireless become an option... something it was not before unless you accepted some disvantages.
 
Last edited:

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I won't need to dream about it, I will see it for myself while you speculate on it.
Don't worry about me, I will be getting a PS5 too.

Unless I am not allowed to because I don't worship at the alter? Maybe that is why you have to register to preorder? Will Cerny be doing background checks on how much of a rabid fanboy I am?
 
Last edited:

Thirty7ven

Banned
I have the Netgear Nighthawk Ax8 8 Stream ax6000 wifi 6 router.

Ok so according to you, and I don't know why would this be surprising at all, WiFi 6 only adds range and everyone else is selling bs about latency numbers because you tried it and got the exact same as your brother in a 5vs6 test.

Yeah, sorry, I will take the rest of the internet.
 

Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Ok so according to you, and I don't know why would this be surprising at all, WiFi 6 only adds range and everyone else is selling bs about latency numbers because you tried it and got the exact same as your brother in a 5vs6 test.

Yeah, sorry, I will take the rest of the internet.


I did research before I bought it, I needed the range boost. Had a mesh network (google one) from my old place that would not cut it in the new one.

.

Google real world experience, not lab numbers.

For the "best" results u need to be with in 6 feet of the router, Just use a wire if you are that close.
 
Last edited:

Thirty7ven

Banned
Don't worry about me, I will be getting a PS5 too.

Unless I am not allowed to because I don't worship at the alter? Maybe that is why you have to register to preorder? Will Cerny be doing background checks on how much of a rabid fanboy I am?


crazy34jri.png



Brother you are fucking insane.
 
Don't generalize wireless.

802.11AX (WiFi 6) almost eliminate the latency difference between wireless and wired.
Not just that the low latency is beneficial to remove the dizziness of AR/VR experiences.

With WiFi 6 gaming via wireless become an option... something it was not before unless you accepted some disvantages.
Lower latency is always going to be a positive. I'll never complain about it. But I'll never understand the constant need to upsell wifi 6, because it's featured in your favorite console. I don't care if XSX, PS5, and PC all have WiFi 6. At the end of the day wired will remain superior, no matter what angle you take on it.


PGPnxWg.jpg
 

Mod of War

Ω
Staff Member

devilNprada

Member
You plug your headphones into your AVR, and you plug your CAT6 cable into your PS5. If you want audio fidelity and reliable connection this is how it'll always work.

Agree 100%... I just think a cool feature would to be able to remote play to any TV (or display) in your house or sit in any room and play a wireless VR headset.
This would drive me to a Wifi 6 mesh sytem and $40 dongles on every TV.
 

iJudged

Banned
i mean wifi6 is great, but your ISP needs to provide wifi6 service (and may increase monthly costs). I talked to xfinitiy, at &t, and they stated the maximum speeds they can provide is

1 gigabits per second


a lot of gamers dont care for wifi6 because they will be using wired cable connection to get the best connection with no lag 🤷‍♂️
I got 100 up 100 down, been playing wifi on consoles for years without issues, will wifi6 benefit me?
 
I got 100 up 100 down, been playing wifi on consoles for years without issues, will wifi6 benefit me?

if you *use* wifi then fuck yes it will definitely benefit you, as long as you get a wifi6 router. Try to get a wifi6 router dedicated to gaming (it will be expensive)
 

iJudged

Banned
if you *use* wifi then fuck yes it will definitely benefit you, as long as you get a wifi6 router. Try to get a wifi6 router dedicated to gaming (it will be expensive)
pls explain how this will benefit me if i am capped at 100/100. What is Wifi6 going to do for me better then what i currently have? Mind you, i have no issues playing on $40 router. How am i going to benefit from wifi6 and an expensive gaming router vs what i have now? This is what i am curious about.
 
pls explain how this will benefit me if i am capped at 100/100. What is Wifi6 going to do for me better then what i currently have? Mind you, i have no issues playing on $40 router. How am i going to benefit from wifi6 and an expensive gaming router vs what i have now? This is what i am curious about.

Please see the videos that were posted in page 1 of this thread (i posted 1 video that explains it real well), and other videos and articles posted by neogaf that explains the benefits of wifi 6. It mostly has to do with efficiencies. It should answer most of your questions.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Lower latency is always going to be a positive. I'll never complain about it. But I'll never understand the constant need to upsell wifi 6, because it's featured in your favorite console. I don't care if XSX, PS5, and PC all have WiFi 6. At the end of the day wired will remain superior, no matter what angle you take on it.


PGPnxWg.jpg
What comparison is that?
You need a router to use a wired cable too lol
 
Last edited:

Redlight

Member
What comparison is that?
You need a router to use a wired cable too lol
I think the price difference between a Wifi6 router and your everyday ethernet cable router is, let's say, significant. Yet, you can use the cheap one now and have better performance than the big bucks wifi version.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Actually you don't.
You need.
You will ohhhh you can connect your modem directly that breaks the goal of a network in your home.

Or maybe you will change the cable to your notebook when you need it or to your TV when you need it... and back to PS5 when you will play games lol

I think the price difference between a Wifi6 router and your everyday ethernet cable router is, let's say, significant. Yet, you can use the cheap one now and have better performance than the big bucks wifi version.
That is fine so make a proper comparison saying the use of a router for Ethernet is cheaper than for WiFi 6 (that new hot tech that is indeed expensive today).

Router x Cable? WTF? People in denial keep creating nonsense comparisons.
 
Last edited:

CamHostage

Member
Agree 100%... I just think a cool feature would to be able to remote play to any TV (or display) in your house or sit in any room and play a wireless VR headset.

Hmm, "sit in any room and play a wireless VR"? I would think if wireless VR was possible with PlayStation 5, it'd be done with the WiFi in local ad-hoc mode rather than networked, no? The PS5 would beam the VR signal to the room for a direct and full-powered connection, instead of sending the signal to the router to beam back out to the rest of the house (or over the internet, even more extreme.) That's one of the reasons why WiFi 6e is often talked about as being the WiFi VR solution, because not only is it using the bigger and less touched frequency band set, but it's also using that fragile-yet-powerful 6GHz signal. I guess people do crazy things with Remote Play and streaming devices these days, so maybe more's possible than I am imagining, but with how much your stomach bile is depending on VR being perfectly fast and seamless, my guess is you'd only do PSVR WIFI in the room with your PS5. But still, that'd be a godsend over dragging out and tripping on wires to VR, just slap on the headset and explore.
 
Last edited:
What comparison is that?
You need a router to use a wired cable too lol
💀 💀 💀
With all things being equal, same router, same distance to device. Which would have lower latency, faster throughout, higher bandwidth, etc.

Wired vs wireless. Getting a direct answer from y'all, is like trying to pull the master sword from the stone, while only having 12 heart containers in botw.
 

ethomaz

Banned
💀 💀 💀
With all things being equal, same router, same distance to device. Which would have lower latency, faster throughout, higher bandwidth, etc.

Wired vs wireless. Getting a direct answer from y'all, is like trying to pull the master sword from the stone, while only having 12 heart containers in botw.
From real life tests without interferences on WiFi signal the latency seems similar while in terms of speed only Gigabit Ethernet beat it.
 

devilNprada

Member
Hmm, "sit in any room and play a wireless VR"? I would think if wireless VR was possible with PlayStation 5, it'd be done with the WiFi in local ad-hoc mode rather than networked, no? The PS5 would beam the VR signal to the room for a direct and full-powered connection, instead of sending the signal to the router to beam back out to the rest of the house (or over the internet, even more extreme.) That's one of the reasons why WiFi 6e is often talked about as being the WiFi VR solution, because not only is it using the bigger and less touched frequency band set, but it's also using that fragile-yet-powerful 6GHz signal. I guess people do crazy things with Remote Play and streaming devices these days, so maybe more's possible than I am imagining, but with how much your stomach bile is depending on VR being perfectly fast and seamless, my guess is you'd only do PSVR WIFI in the room with your PS5. But still, that'd be a godsend over dragging out and tripping on wires to VR, just slap on the headset and explore.

You're right now that I think about it.. When i do remote play I believe it connects directly to the playstation and not through the router..
But supposedly we would to be able to stream our playstation games to the vita over the internet, remember that?
I don't think that will happen anytime soon, but more believable is being able to do it through a wireless LAN.
The remote play actually worked pretty well with the PS4 (on an xperia phone).

Maybe just wishful thinking I can have a console connection throughout the entire house.
 

ethomaz

Banned
You're right now that I think about it.. When i do remote play I believe it connects directly to the playstation and not through the router..
But supposedly we would to be able to stream our playstation games to the vita over the internet, remember that?
I don't think that will happen anytime soon, but more believable is being able to do it through a wireless LAN.
The remote play actually worked pretty well with the PS4 (on an xperia phone).

Maybe just wishful thinking I can have a console connection throughout the entire house.
It only happens if the device in close to PS.
I did some tests and on my bed my Vita connects to the PS4 directly but if I go close the door it chances to Wifi network.

I believe it is about 4-5 meters the limit.

PS. It uses WiFi network on my bathroom :D
 
Last edited:
From real life tests without interferences on WiFi signal the latency seems similar while in terms of speed only Gigabit Ethernet beat it.
Similar latency means that one of them is better than the other. There's no point in trying to argue, as we both know which is the better option. Unless you absolutely cannot connect via hard wired, wifi should be the last resort. Just like in some crossplay games which shows which players are on pc vs consoles, we should be about to see who is using wireless, so you can avoid playing with those people if you so choose to do so.
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

Banned
Similar latency means that one of them is better than the other. There's no point in trying to argue, as we both know which is the better option. Unless you absolutely cannot connect via hard wired, wifi should be the last resort. Just like in some crossplay games which shows which players are on pc vs consoles, we should be about to see who is using wireless, so you can avoid playing with those people if you so choose to do so.
Similar means equal lol
You won’t have difference in latency unless you have interference in any of them.
 
Last edited:

yurinka

Member
So would someone with a series X or PC also get those same benefits you speak of? I'm curious if this is some secret sauces or just another case of fanboyism. Because you still think wireless is faster and lower latency, even though solid evidence has been shown to you, several times now.
I posted you the facts, articles mentioning the wifi 6 specs and wifi 6 real world tests. It isn't 'secret sauces', 'fanboyism' or what I think. You are the fanboy attacking me with just your baseless opinions not backed with facts.

In the OP there is an oficial link (has been registered for a country) mentioning that PS5 will have wifi 6 and Bluetooth 5.1. Digital Foundry made the teardown video for Series X where they mentioned it has wifi 5, so won't be benefited of this.

I posted links showing real world wifi 6 tests which show 1.2Gbps to 1.5Gbps data transfer speeds, which is 20-50% faster than the gigabit ethernet theorical peak of 1000BASE-T (standard for wired connection in consoles) and has the same latency than basically the same than the one.

These are facts and you didn't show any data proving it's wrong.

Can you tell me why wired headphones will always sound better than wireless? Why does your phone charge faster via cable, vs wireless charging? Why can you transfer files faster via physical media, vs wirelessly? Why are wired mice more responsive, with lower latency, compared to a wireless one? Why do power lines go directly to your house, instead of wireless energy? Do you see where I'm going with this?
I see where you are going with this, you are mentioning many things totally unrelated to the wifi 6 vs console wired connection because you don't want to accept that the facts say that the wifi 6 is better than the wired connection for consoles and don't have any fact to back your wishes.

Read the facts and accept that this new technology is a new paradigm for the wifi vs wired comparision in consoles.

What in the world? Sending data through radio frequencies will never be faster or more robust than a hardwired copper/fiber cable. Wifi latency is measured in milliseconds. Ethernet is in microseconds, and even nanoseconds in data centers.
I posted the sources many times in the thread, won't post them again. Go and search them. One of them was a real world latency test made by Parsec using a home 802.11ac router testing wifi 2.4GHz vs 5.0GHz vs Gigabit Ethernet. 5.0Ghz 802.11ac wifi gave ~5ms of latency and ethernet gave ~1ms. Other sources posted in the thread mention 802.11ax cuts a 75% of the wifi 802.11ac latency, which would mean ~1,2ms of latency. With old wifi systems the difference between wifi and wired was of even dozens of ms and wifi latency was very unstable, but in newer wifi systems (5.0GHz) it got more stable and reduced vastly the latency, to the point that the difference between wifi 6 and wired is under 1ms, which makes it basically the same, and on top of that wifi 6 offers higher speeds (over 20-50% in real world tests, links also posted in this thread) and other benefits.

Datacenters don't use the 1000BASE-T wired connections that consoles use and don't use these routers, they use faster stuff. On top of that, in their measurings probably are removing some overhead that maybe is counted in this real world home test from packets, ping, etc.
 
Last edited:
I posted you the facts, articles mentioning the wifi 6 specs and wifi 6 real world tests. It isn't 'secret sauces', 'fanboyism' or what I think. You are the fanboy attacking me with just your baseless opinions not backed with facts.

In the OP there is an oficial link (has been registered for a country) mentioning that PS5 will have wifi 6 and Bluetooth 5.1. Digital Foundry made the teardown video for Series X where they mentioned it has wifi 5, so won't be benefited of this.

I posted links showing real world wifi 6 tests which show 1.2Gbps to 1.5Gbps data transfer speeds, which is 20-50% faster than the gigabit ethernet theorical peak of 1000BASE-T (standard for wired connection in consoles) and has the same latency than basically the same than the one.

These are facts and you didn't show any data proving it's wrong.


I see where you are going with this, you are mentioning many things totally unrelated to the wifi 6 vs console wired connection because you don't want to accept that the facts say that the wifi 6 is better than the wired connection for consoles and don't have any fact to back your wishes.

Read the facts and accept that this new technology is a new paradigm for the wifi vs wired comparision in consoles.
So where is proof that wifi 6 beats wired connection? My motherboard with 5gbps is faster than wifi 6 and has less latency. My argument is that wired will always beat wireless, in every possible way, every scenario, every single time.

You are the one who keeps bringing up standard 1gbps wired, which doesn't make sense as that wasn't even the original argument. So stop using baseless numbers and show proof that wifi 6 has lower latency and better speeds than a wired connection with alllll things being equal. Same router, same distance, same environment. If you can't do that, then it's pretty obvious that wifi 6 is inferior to a wired connection. I mean there's plenty proof all over the internet.
 

yurinka

Member
So where is proof that wifi 6 beats wired connection? My motherboard with 5gbps is faster than wifi 6 and has less latency. My argument is that wired will always beat wireless, in every possible way, every scenario, every single time.

You are the one who keeps bringing up standard 1gbps wired, which doesn't make sense as that wasn't even the original argument. So stop using baseless numbers and show proof that wifi 6 has lower latency and better speeds than a wired connection with alllll things being equal. Same router, same distance, same environment. If you can't do that, then it's pretty obvious that wifi 6 is inferior to a wired connection. I mean there's plenty proof all over the internet.
Go and read the thread, I explained that several times and posted the sources with facts like the real world tests results and standard specifications.

I and all the people use 1gbps because it's the wired standard used in console gaming (1000BASE-T), it can't go beyond a theorical max of 1Gbps. And they use this one and not another one because it allows cables of up to 100 meters. There are faster standards -not in console, which is what we are talking about- but they use shorter cables (max cable length of 15, 25, 40 meters) or are standards for another stuff, even using other cables and connectors -Electrical Backplanes or fiber cables-.

Whilst your specs are factual, I'll agree to disagree on real world usage if its all the same to you.
It isn't all the same for me. A wired connection using 10/100 LAN with a cat 4 damaged cabled isn't the same than a proper gigabit lan with a proper cat 7 cable, and a 802.11b wifi isn''t the same than a 802.11ax wifi. And in both wired or wifi, the distance affects stuff like speed, packet loss, there are also interferences and so on.

Each case is difference, but the facts we have say there real world cases proving wifi 6 getting speeds over 20-50% above the 1000BASET gigabit lan theorical peak that the consoe can achieve when wired, and that it should have a latency very similar to wired connection, under a 1ms of difference.

I mean, we have facts proving that for the first time this new wifi type is going to be better than using wired connection but many people here don't want to accept it even if they don't have any fact to back their opinion/wish.
 
Last edited:

Dnice1

Member
Datacenters don't use the 1000BASE-T wired connections that consoles use and don't use these routers, they use faster stuff. On top of that, in their measurings probably are removing some overhead that maybe is counted in this real world home test from packets, ping, etc.

I was responding to your statement that...
for the first time will be better wifi than using cable

Which is just wrong.
 
Go and read the thread, I explained that. I and all the people use 1gbps because it's the wired standard used in consoles and PC gaming because it allows cables of up to 100 meters. There are faster standards for PC -not in console, which is what we are talking about- but they use shorter cables (max length of 15, 25, 40 meters) or are for another stuff -Electrical Backplanes or fiber cables-.
I read the thread already. You're arguing over semantics, as my original posts in this very thread mentioned consoles and PCs. You can read the thread to fact check things if you'd like. But since you are strictly talking about ps5, let's start from there.

Will the ps5 have lower latency via hard wire or wifi 6, with all things being equal?

If you can answer that honestly, you'll realize that wired>>>wireless. Especially when it comes to latency. You can never transmit data OTA faster than a wire. Physics does not allow this.
 
Last edited:

yurinka

Member
Which is just wrong.
It isn't wrong, it's a fact backed by the specifications and real world tests. Which facts do you have to prove it's wrong?

I read the thread already. You're arguing over semantics, as my original posts in this very thread mentioned consoles and PCs. You can read the thread to fact check things if you'd like. But since you are strictly talking about ps5, let's start from there.

Will the ps5 have lower latency via hard wire or wifi 6, with all things being equal?

If you can answer that honestly, you'll realize that wired>>>wireless. Especially when it comes to latency. You can never transmit data OTA faster than a wire. Physics does not allow this.
With the factual data we posted in the thread, we know both this wired and wireless connections that PS5 will use will have a latency of around 1ms. We don't know exactly which will have better latency but in any case it won't matter because should be a difference of under 1ms, which is basically nothing: way less than a 60fps game frame, so players won't notice it.

With the old 2.4GHz wifi the latency difference was huge and wireless and it was very unstable. With 5.0GHz 802.11ac they made it way more stable and reduced it a lot but still was noticiable having 5ms. Now with wifi6 -and obviously using a wifi6 router- the latency difference between wired and wifi shouldn't be noticiabe in PS5 because the difference will be tiny and in both cases super small.

And yes, you can transmit OTA faster than using a wire, it depends of the wireless and wired method you are comparing. As an example, with this wifi 6 seems you can get up to -at least- 1.5Gbps, and an old modem got 56kbit/s speeds. If we stick to ethernet, before the previous popular standard before the 1000BASET (gigabit ethernet) was 100BASE-TX, which achieved 100 Mbit/s, something slower than the current 802.11ac/wifi 5 since had a 100mbps max.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom