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Opinion Clickbait Game Dev PS5 SSD Will Bring “A Paradigm Shift in How We Structure Our Game Worlds” – Quantum League Developer

IbizaPocholo

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Another developer who’s quite excited about the PS5’s SSD is Balthazar Auger of Nimble Giant Entertainment, lead designer on the unique upcoming competitive shooter, Quantum League. Speaking with GamingBolt, Auger talked about how the SSD would, of course, help reduce load times, before saying that more importantly, it will probably trigger “a paradigm shift” in how developers approach designing their game’s worlds.

He said: “Well, it definitely should help loading times, for a start, but speaking as a game and level designer what this will probably bring over time is a kind of paradigm shift in how we structure our game worlds, and how detailed they can be.”

According to Auger, however, it remains to be seen if and when those theoretical advantages will actually manifest, which is something that will be determined by various other factors, such as development engines that can evolve to the point where they can actually handle that kind of stuff.

“It remains to see what actual benefits we can get from that right now, as engine technology also needs to evolve to match the hardware advances, and developer mentalities need to catch up as well,” Auger said. “Sometimes more isn’t really better (remember the Cell?).”

Meanwhile, when asked about possible ports of Quantum League on the PS5 and the Xbox Series X, Auger responded, “Nothing is off the table!”
 

Captain Hero

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Yes yes PS5 SSD is a monster we heard that million times.. we will see when games come out

I believe him but we know that this is the same for every beginning of a new generation..

Games games games the only indicator of the success of this new gen as they mentioned in every fucking thread
 

McRazzle

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Another developer who’s quite excited about the PS5’s SSD is Balthazar Auger of Nimble Giant Entertainment, lead designer on the unique upcoming competitive shooter, Quantum League. Speaking with GamingBolt, Auger talked about how the SSD would, of course, help reduce load times, before saying that more importantly, it will probably trigger “a paradigm shift” in how developers approach designing their game’s worlds.

He said: “Well, it definitely should help loading times, for a start, but speaking as a game and level designer what this will probably bring over time is a kind of paradigm shift in how we structure our game worlds, and how detailed they can be.”

According to Auger, however, it remains to be seen if and when those theoretical advantages will actually manifest, which is something that will be determined by various other factors, such as development engines that can evolve to the point where they can actually handle that kind of stuff.

“It remains to see what actual benefits we can get from that right now, as engine technology also needs to evolve to match the hardware advances, and developer mentalities need to catch up as well,” Auger said. “Sometimes more isn’t really better (remember the Cell?).”

Meanwhile, when asked about possible ports of Quantum League on the PS5 and the Xbox Series X, Auger responded, “Nothing is off the table!”
Didn't he say specs won't matter that much, because devs would be “bound by the lowest-spec target hardware.”
 

TearInto5th

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So we know Xbox is very Powerful. And we know the PS5 is very fast.

There is also certain developers looking towards each console for their strengths.

Different developers, different mindsets and ideas, and they will use each one to their max. This will be the golden generation. Because we will experience some shit.

People look into this way too much.
 

Mr Hyde

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Yeah, that sounds cool and all but do the PS5 have BLAST PROCESSING? Nah, didn't think so.
 

ZywyPL

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I feel like "paradigm" is the new buzzword for Playstation, it shows up in literally every PS5-related thread/interview, they should make it their new marketing slogan for real, instead of #4theplayers they should switch to #NewParadigm...

Time will tell, but the way I look at it - you could as well add 64GB of RAM to existing PS4/XB1, to be able to load much, much more complex assets, but the question is - would they actually be able to run them at decent pace? I mean, the most demanding games that have higher fidelity assets are already locked to mere 30FPS, UC4 even has the infamous 15FPS crowd animations, TLoU2 recent tweets show similar behavior with its snow deformation, so simple logic tells me you simply cannot have better assets that the console can actually render in real-time. Gears 5 most demanding scene is... wait for it... the main menu! Because that's how complex that single character is, displaying two of them would tank the performance, let alone entire scene with such fidelity. Forza, same deal - the most detailed car models are within the menu/Forzavista, because having 16 such modeled cars in game (plus scenery) would run in single digit FPS. So no matter how fast and how much data can be stored or even streamed in next-gen systems, they will still be limited to what can actually be displayed within a fixed frametime budget.
 

SirTerry-T

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"paradigm shift"
A paradigm shift is when we went from bloody Pong to Mario 64...THAT is a paradigm shift.
More of the same but just faster, more varied and prettier, is not.

I'm very appreciative of the fact that I'm lucky enough to work in this business but sometimes the hype, bullshit and empty PR that gets spouted by Devs, Hardware teams and Company stakeholders, regardless of who they work for, can get downright embarrassing.


Personally speaking.
 
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HeadsUp7Up

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"paradigm shift"
A paradigm shift is when we went from bloody Pong to Mario 64...THAT is a paradigm shift.
More of the same but just faster, more varied and prettier, is not.

I'm very appreciative of the fact that I'm lucky enough to work in this business but sometimes the hype, bullshit and empty PR that gets spouted by Devs, Hardware teams and Company stakeholders, regardless of who they work for, can get downright embarrassing.


Personally speaking.

What do you do? And what is your take on all of this nonsense? I keep on seeing the same (what seems to be hyperbole) with no examples of that new way of thinking and previously impossible gameplay and design.
 
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SirTerry-T

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What do you do? And what is your take on all of this nonsense? I keep on seeing the same (what seems to be hyperbole) with no examples of that new way of thinking and previously impossible gameplay and design.

I push pixels around :)

I'm like every other fan of gaming, I'd like to see something tangible to shows us this "paradigm shift" rather than clickbait articles and shallow Twitter soundbites. :)
I'm cynical of a lot of the talk that's happening simply because of the escalating budgets and timescales already involved in current gen titles. I look forward to having my own cynicism blown away though!
 
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HeadsUp7Up

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I push pixels around :)

I'm like every other fan of gaming, I'd like to see something tangible to shows us this "paradigm shift" rather than clickbait articles and shallow Twitter soundbited :)
I'm cynical of a lot of the talk that's happening simply because of the escalating budgets and timescales already involved in current gen titles. I look forward to having my own cynicism blown away though!

I doubt you'll get it any time soon. I've asked in multiple threads and it gets ignored so I've just decided to stay out of them and wait until games come out. I'm with you though, excited but cynical because no one will put words or examples to the "paradigm shift".

The one idea I had would be if you had a time travel game where you could instantly switch back and forth between time periods to alter events to progress through obstacles. Who knows though.
 

Shmunter

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"paradigm shift"
A paradigm shift is when we went from bloody Pong to Mario 64...THAT is a paradigm shift.
More of the same but just faster, more varied and prettier, is not.

I'm very appreciative of the fact that I'm lucky enough to work in this business but sometimes the hype, bullshit and empty PR that gets spouted by Devs, Hardware teams and Company stakeholders, regardless of who they work for, can get downright embarrassing.


Personally speaking.
There was nothing in between pong and Mario64? Brutal coma you must’ve had there. 😂
 
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Shmunter

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I doubt you'll get it any time soon. I've asked in multiple threads and it gets ignored so I've just decided to stay out of them and wait until games come out. I'm with you though, excited but cynical because no one will put words or examples to the "paradigm shift".

The one idea I had would be if you had a time travel game where you could instantly switch back and forth between time periods to alter events to progress through obstacles. Who knows though.
Ask for what next gen games examples?

Your example is valid but very specific, the simplest and most general result will be asset quality and detail per scene. Picture cut scene quality visuals but in continuous gameplay.

What makes real-time cutscenes visually above gameplay is the ability to harness resources onto a single scene. Everything else in memory is purged. The faster the streaming system, the more potential for greater detail per scene due to the rapid ability to bring in high quality assets over and over and over, etc.
 
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darkinstinct

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Another developer who’s quite excited about the PS5’s SSD is Balthazar Auger of Nimble Giant Entertainment, lead designer on the unique upcoming competitive shooter, Quantum League. Speaking with GamingBolt, Auger talked about how the SSD would, of course, help reduce load times, before saying that more importantly, it will probably trigger “a paradigm shift” in how developers approach designing their game’s worlds.

He said: “Well, it definitely should help loading times, for a start, but speaking as a game and level designer what this will probably bring over time is a kind of paradigm shift in how we structure our game worlds, and how detailed they can be.”

According to Auger, however, it remains to be seen if and when those theoretical advantages will actually manifest, which is something that will be determined by various other factors, such as development engines that can evolve to the point where they can actually handle that kind of stuff.

“It remains to see what actual benefits we can get from that right now, as engine technology also needs to evolve to match the hardware advances, and developer mentalities need to catch up as well,” Auger said. “Sometimes more isn’t really better (remember the Cell?).”

Meanwhile, when asked about possible ports of Quantum League on the PS5 and the Xbox Series X, Auger responded, “Nothing is off the table!”
Are you now going to make a thread out of every statement by that dev?
 

HeadsUp7Up

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Ask for what next gen games examples?

Your example is valid but very specific, the simplest and most general result will be asset quality and detail per scene. Picture cut scene quality visuals but in continuous gameplay.

What makes real-time cutscenes visually above gameplay is the ability to harness resources onto a single scene. Everything else in memory is purged. The faster the streaming system, the more potential for greater detail per scene due to the rapid ability to bring in high quality assets over and over and over, etc.
Ok but I wouldn’t qualify cutscene level visuals as a paradigm shift in games. That’s just really good looking games, or more of the same. I keep on reading about how power isn’t relevant because hurr durr better graphics, but that’s the example you just gave me.

And the example I gave is specific, which is what I’ve been asking for.

Hopefully you don’t take any of this as an attack on you. I have all three systems now and plan on getting whatever is coming next, just tired of everyone speaking in circles and not really adding anything of substance.
 

joe_zazen

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"paradigm shift"
A paradigm shift is when we went from bloody Pong to Mario 64...THAT is a paradigm shift.
More of the same but just faster, more varied and prettier, is not.

I'm very appreciative of the fact that I'm lucky enough to work in this business but sometimes the hype, bullshit and empty PR that gets spouted by Devs, Hardware teams and Company stakeholders, regardless of who they work for, can get downright embarrassing.


Personally speaking.

very few people here, if any, will be able to tell you what the paradigm shift could entail. It is like asking in 2006 on a phone forum, when the first capacitive touch screen phones in India started appearing, what kind of paradigm shift this tech will mean. The thread would have given you zero good answers. Same here.

& if you are an xbox zealot looking to kill ‘James‘ Cerney and burn 5th temple PlayStation to the ground, there is no need as it looks like it is going to take years for the industry to adjust, if it ever does. But it is possible this is the start of something like touch screens, that will alter design and consumption on a fundamental level. And I am sure Microsoft will be part of it, making mad cash like they always do...Although they did fuck up with phones.:messenger_die::messenger_8ball:
 
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I'm interested to see if these SSDs have a significant affect on file sizes since I kept hearing they wouldn't have to duplicate information on the disc anymore.
 
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HeadsUp7Up

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I'm interested to see if these SSDs have a significant affect on file sizes since I kept hearing they wouldn't have to duplicate information on the disc anymore.
That’s a thought I had reading the deep dive on the PS5 digital foundry out today. Not having to duplicate assets tens, hundreds, thousands of times is always good. Saves space for more important things I guess.
 

HeadsUp7Up

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very few people here, if any, will be able to tell you what the paradigm shift could entail. It is like asking in 2006 on a phone forum, when the first capacitive touch screen phones in India started appearing, what kind of paradigm shift this tech will mean. The thread would have given you zero good answers. Same here.

& if you are an xbox zealot looking to kill ‘James‘ Cerney and burn 5th temple PlayStation to the ground, there is no need as it looks like it is going to take years for the industry to adjust, if it ever does. But it is possible this is the start of something like touch screens, that will alter design and consumption on a fundamental level. And I am sure Microsoft will be part of it, making mad cash like they always do...Although they did fuck up with phones.:messenger_die::messenger_8ball:

Like (I think) you’re alluding to it’s not the hardware but the software that comes with it. Capacitive screens didn’t really change anything but it allowed the software to truly flourish unlike resistive screens which was the standard up to that point. I think the cynicism comes in to play where the developer, that should at least have some wild idea of the paradigm shift, aren’t saying anything but “this changes everything.” And for the average forum goer, if you’re going to ride that wave at least be genuine and admit you have no clue.
 
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phil_t98

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game looks similar to overwatch, looks good but nothing I see that will massively tax any next gen system
 
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SirTerry-T

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There was nothing in between pong and Mario64? Brutal coma you must’ve had there. 😂

From the early days of Pong right up to Mario 64(maybe I-Robot if you want to be extra picky), most games involved pixels interacting with other pixels on what was, fundamentaly a 2d plane, with no player control on how that 2d plane was viewed. Mario 64 and the other third person, "3d" games that followed brought about new ways in which the player would be able to interact with characters and world's those characters inhabited.


paradigm shift
noun
  1. a fundamental change in approach or underlying assumptions
 

SirTerry-T

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very few people here, if any, will be able to tell you what the paradigm shift could entail. It is like asking in 2006 on a phone forum, when the first capacitive touch screen phones in India started appearing, what kind of paradigm shift this tech will mean. The thread would have given you zero good answers. Same here.

& if you are an xbox zealot looking to kill ‘James‘ Cerney and burn 5th temple PlayStation to the ground, there is no need as it looks like it is going to take years for the industry to adjust, if it ever does. But it is possible this is the start of something like touch screens, that will alter design and consumption on a fundamental level. And I am sure Microsoft will be part of it, making mad cash like they always do...Although they did fuck up with phones.:messenger_die::messenger_8ball:

I'm not a zealot, I love videogames but not to the extent I feel some religious calling to support one chunk of plastic over another or kill an incredibly talented hardware engineer...though he should make another Marble Madness!
I just think paradigm shift was a bit OTT. Nothing more than that.
 
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Shmunter

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Ok but I wouldn’t qualify cutscene level visuals as a paradigm shift in games. That’s just really good looking games, or more of the same. I keep on reading about how power isn’t relevant because hurr durr better graphics, but that’s the example you just gave me.

And the example I gave is specific, which is what I’ve been asking for.

Hopefully you don’t take any of this as an attack on you. I have all three systems now and plan on getting whatever is coming next, just tired of everyone speaking in circles and not really adding anything of substance.
Your right. Games will continue to be just prettier versions of gameplay we see today. Controller, screen, movement in a 3d scene. The paradigm shift is actually in the development process, where a big leap in access to memory is available to developers. This will aid in translating their vision to games without as many compromises, but imagination will still be restricted to manageable gameplay which won’t differ greatly to today.

The paradigm shift in games themselves today is VR. And that in itself complements flat games, it does not replace them.
 
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No. It would only make a difference if Xbox was still using an HDD. With both consoles having an SSD it opens up new possibilities. Still waiting for receipts on that though. A lot of this SSD talk is dumb.

It kinda sucks that with all the just crazy extra warring going on we can't sit back and appreciate how fast the SSDs in both next gen consoles are. I have SATA SSDs in my PC and they seem fast as hell, the XsX drive puts my SATA drives to shame and the PS5 drive even more so. Lightning fast storage access is gonna be a godsend console-wide next gen. Games developed from the ground up on PS5 and XsX are gonna really shine in regards to loading and asset streaming/whatnot
 

Kacho

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It kinda sucks that with all the just crazy extra warring going on we can't sit back and appreciate how fast the SSDs in both next gen consoles are. I have SATA SSDs in my PC and they seem fast as hell, the XsX drive puts my SATA drives to shame and the PS5 drive even more so. Lightning fast storage access is gonna be a godsend console-wide next gen. Games developed from the ground up on PS5 and XsX are gonna really shine in regards to loading and asset streaming/whatnot
Your post should be stickied at the top of every stupid SSD thread going forward. That’s all there is to it really.
 
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No. This is the main reason all the SSD secret sauce is just bullshit. It would be one thing if PS5 had this ultra fast SSD and XSX still had old HDD tech but they both have fast SSD’s inside. It’s just console warz nonsense clinging to whatever spec they have.

Learn the definition and the origin 'secret sauce'. It was literally made up to describe the advantage the Xbox One had over the PS4 that couldn't be explained on paper. Factually, the SSD in the PS5 is faster. If you want to debate how it will translate in performance that's difference (flashback to 2013 about needing a 40" TV to tell the difference between 900p & 1080p) that's different, but to hand wave it as 'secret sauce' is the definition of playing console wars.

It's actually as stupid as saying the TFLOP advantage the series x has is 'GPU secret sauce'. "Herr durr both are capable of 4K. It's not as if one machine is using a generational old GPU. Just console warz guise!"
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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Learn the definition and the origin 'secret sauce'. It was literally made up to describe the advantage the Xbox One had over the PS4 that couldn't be explained on paper. Factually, the SSD in the PS5 is faster. If you want to debate how it will translate in performance that's difference (flashback to 2013 about needing a 40" TV to tell the difference between 900p & 1080p) that's different, but to hand wave it as 'secret sauce' is the definition of playing console wars.

It's actually as stupid as saying the TFLOP advantage the series x has is 'GPU secret sauce'. "Herr durr both are capable of 4K. It's not as if one machine is using a generational old GPU. Just console warz guise!"

I know you’re triggered and aren’t thinking clearly, but “advantage not explained on paper” is exactly how the PS5 SSD is being treated. Some saving grace that is going to make up for the weaker hardware and “bridge the gap” and in many people’s minds actually make PS5 more powerful. It is this gens version of secret sauce, you just described it there yourself. Thanks.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Didn't he say specs won't matter that much, because devs would be “bound by the lowest-spec target hardware.”
Yeah, garbage dev who can't keep his story straight, doesn't have any notoriety to speak of whatsoever and is simply clout chasing.
 
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I know you’re triggered and aren’t thinking clearly, but “advantage not explained on paper” is exactly how the PS5 SSD is being treated.

“advantage not explained on paper” if you don't understand elementary math

I/O Throughput:
2.5GB/sec vs 5.5GB/sec = +110% difference

Triggered by calculating basic arithmetic or in your terms "secret sauce".
 
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“advantage not explained on paper” if you don't understand elementary math

I/O Throughput:
2.5GB/sec vs 5.5GB/sec = +110% difference

Triggered by calculating basic arithmetic or in your terms "secret sauce".

Ok, you’re spot on with the math, but in fairness:

People are trying, or have been trying, to imply or speculate that PS5’s faster storage will give it some unforeseen power advantage beyond the obvious, like solely being responsible for more polygons on screen, more processing power, being able to cheat fillrate, etc.

Hence, secret sauce
 

HeadsUp7Up

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I know you’re triggered and aren’t thinking clearly, but “advantage not explained on paper” is exactly how the PS5 SSD is being treated. Some saving grace that is going to make up for the weaker hardware and “bridge the gap” and in many people’s minds actually make PS5 more powerful. It is this gens version of secret sauce, you just described it there yourself. Thanks.
“advantage not explained on paper” if you don't understand elementary math

I/O Throughput:
2.5GB/sec vs 5.5GB/sec = +110% difference

Triggered by calculating basic arithmetic or in your terms "secret sauce".
Come on guys be better than this. Neither one of you is going to convince the other. Just agree to let it go and be happy we’re getting new consoles.
 

Three

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Like (I think) you’re alluding to it’s not the hardware but the software that comes with it. Capacitive screens didn’t really change anything but it allowed the software to truly flourish unlike resistive screens which was the standard up to that point. I think the cynicism comes in to play where the developer, that should at least have some wild idea of the paradigm shift, aren’t saying anything but “this changes everything.” And for the average forum goer, if you’re going to ride that wave at least be genuine and admit you have no clue.
They have given examples though. Watch the spiderman GDC talk. Look at how it is managing the memory as it loads the city. Now fast forward to the spiderman SSD presentation and see how it will change things. It means cutscenes will change in the way they switch between scenes. It means open world games can have every house be explorable and non-repetitive without a loading screen. It means your character can move faster. These are the changes that we know of.
 
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HeadsUp7Up

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They have given examples though. Watch the spiderman GDC talk. Look at how it is managing the memory as it loads the city. Now fast forward to the spiderman SSD presentation and see how it will change things. It means cutscenes will change in the way they switch between scenes. It means open world games can have every house be explorable and non-repetitive without a loading screen. It means your character can move faster. These are the changes that we know of.

I guess I wouldn’t classify any those things as a paradigm shift and more along the lines of quality of life and immersion Improvements. But I’m patient and willing to give a couple of years to see what changes. As a consumer I really don’t care how it changes how developers work, just how it enables them to bring me new experiences.

Someone in another thread suggested to me VR is the paradigm shift, that I can get behind.
 

DynamiteCop!

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I guess I wouldn’t classify any those things as a paradigm shift and more along the lines of quality of life and immersion Improvements. But I’m patient and willing to give a couple of years to see what changes. As a consumer I really don’t care how it changes how developers work, just how it enables them to bring me new experiences.

Someone in another thread suggested to me VR is the paradigm shift, that I can get behind.
After beating Alyx, I'm sold on that being it, but it's still quite a ways off.
 
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Shmunter

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Ok, you’re spot on with the math, but in fairness:

People are trying, or have been trying, to imply or speculate that PS5’s faster storage will give it some unforeseen power advantage beyond the obvious, like solely being responsible for more polygons on screen, more processing power, being able to cheat fillrate, etc.

Hence, secret sauce
More processing power? People are saying that or is this a deliberate misinterpretation to discredit legitimate discussions? Happy to see illegitimacy called out.

The advantage is plain and simple, a faster ability to provide assets to be rendered. That’s it.

To illustrate, cutscenes look better than gameplay we can agree I’m sure. Thanks to the assets being targeted to the scene, e.g. a close up of a face, higher fidelity model of a car. These higher quality LOD assets will now be able to be provided on demand much faster, therefore gameplay will be able to leverage of e.g. cutscene quality assets.

Picture in game the camera panning and zooming in on a character, a new model and texture can be brought in where previously it was simply not possible with a slow memory subsystem.

You feel me?