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PS5 exclusives drove me to buy Xbox Series X — here’s why

DemonCleaner

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aren't people taught the concept of inflation in school?

if anything it's amazing how stable game prices have been the last 15 years.
 
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Kimahri

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When you do not value the end product, you get product that is not valuable. See Crackdown 3 and a whole slew of 6/10 Gamepass fodder. I pay gladly for quality games. Without this revenue, you cannot pay salaries and the true cost of the software.
Crackdown 3, while not a genre defining game, was a lot of fun and gets undeserved hate.

Had more fun with it than Last of Us, God of War and plenty of other Sony titles.
 
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Panajev2001a

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aren't people taught the concept of inflation in school?

if anything it's amazing how stable game prices have been the last 15 years.

The thing is that we have this kind of cognitive dissonance when dealing with game prices and recognising how pure rental/Netflix models achieve a similar effect in destroying perceived game value as mobile App Store/Play Store walled garden did to software on those platforms and the effect it had on apps/games made for this brave new world.

Whether MS is actively trying to change the rules of the game by doing their best to destroy perceived game value (install the idea that you CAN have all the AAAA games you have now for only $12-15 a month instead of $60-70 each and this save several hundreds if not more a year) or it is a sideffect of how strongly they are pushing for GamePass remains to be seen.
When companies start talking about games made for GamePass/GamePass optimised games a lightbulb should light up though, but it does not.
 

Panajev2001a

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When you do not value the end product, you get product that is not valuable. See Crackdown 3 and a whole slew of 6/10 Gamepass fodder. I pay gladly for quality games. Without this revenue, you cannot pay salaries and the true cost of the software.
This is a scenario which has played out in both Android’s Google Play Store and iOS’s Apple App Store ecosystems: few of any software can manage without in app purchases up the wazoo or subscriptions as consumers, by refusing to give the right value to software, decided to jump into micro transactions hell with both feet instead.
 

Shmunter

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aren't people taught the concept of inflation in school?

if anything it's amazing how stable game prices have been the last 15 years.
While games are primarily a creative endeavour, they are also a technical product. The technology should provide downward pressure offsetting some of the increase in the creative.

Middleware & modern off the shelf engines and solutions assist in improving productivity, while the creative seems to be increasing due to higher production values.

The most expensive product is a high budget brand new IP. Franchises build and reuse ideas, and come with a built in audience reducing marketing effort.

I’m not convinced prices should increase, a better product simply sells more in an ever growing market.
 
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MonarchJT

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The thing is that we have this kind of cognitive dissonance when dealing with game prices and recognising how pure rental/Netflix models achieve a similar effect in destroying perceived game value as mobile App Store/Play Store walled garden did to software on those platforms and the effect it had on apps/games made for this brave new world.

Whether MS is actively trying to change the rules of the game by doing their best to destroy perceived game value (install the idea that you CAN have all the AAAA games you have now for only $12-15 a month instead of $60-70 each and this save several hundreds if not more a year) or it is a sideffect of how strongly they are pushing for GamePass remains to be seen.
When companies start talking about games made for GamePass/GamePass optimised games a lightbulb should light up though, but it does not.
Or has the idea ever occurred to us that a game like The Medium of which the production cost 7 million sold at 59 dollars if only 1 million users buy it collects 59 million? And we know that 1 million copies is not an impossible goal to achieve. We could also cut the figure in half by taking into account I don't know what expenditure is not already incorporated in the production costs and it would always remain a huge gain (in proportion to the initial expenditure). In my opinion we are probably ready to justify the exponentially exorbitant earnings behind the productions. Things probably change for the very big AAA productions to spend 100 million and then sell them at the same price as productions that cost 1 /10 certainly is risky as an investment. But we know that there are very few productions that have costs of this type and almost all of them always manage to easily exceed (even in the worst release) the 2 or 3 million copies sold. Take Halo 5 it will be at what? more than 6cmillions? Sea of thieves that at launch was a flop today and how much? more than 3?
The truth is probably halfway there
 
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DemonCleaner

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While games are primarily a creative endeavour, they are also a technical product. The technology should provide downward pressure offsetting some of the increase in the creative.

Middleware & modern off the shelf engines and solutions assist in improving productivity, while the creative seems to be increasing due to higher production values.

The most expensive product is a high budget brand new IP. Franchises build and reuse ideas, and come with a built in audience reducing marketing effort.

I’m not convinced prices should increase, a better product simply sells more in an ever growing market.

absolutely. just to get this straight, i wasn't trying to say that prices should/need to increase. im sure the points you stated have been the main cause they haven't for the last decade+. but im frankly irritated by the fact that (some?) people are expecting prices to stay the same in a free market. that's not how things go normally.
 

Panajev2001a

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Or has the idea ever occurred to us that a game like The Medium of which the production cost 7 million sold at 59 dollars if only 1 million users buy it collects 59 million? And we know that 1 million copies is not an impossible goal to achieve. We could also cut the figure in half by taking into account I don't know what expenditure is not already incorporated in the production costs and it would always remain a huge gain (in proportion to the initial expenditure). In my opinion we are probably ready to justify the exponentially exorbitant earnings behind the productions

?

A game that makes, years after development started, exactly its budget back is hardly breaking even (unless the development cycle is short inflation starts to count), but not being a first party you take away a cut from that... still this is a very poor investment opportunity cost wise as you have zero profit margins.

Some, many, of these businesses had to raise capital to start with, may need to make investments, etc... operating with 0% profit margins or very low ones is an extremely risky or impractical point of view.

Then again, you may have a much less capitalist friendly attitude than I do (and believe me I am no laissez-faire capitalist), so we may disagree on bigger investments (game development costs have risen) deserving higher Return on Investment/profit margins as you are locking for years a bigger portion of cash and thus increasing your risk. I do not think it is practical to see it otherwise.

Especially for series that are not amenable to or that we gamers would not want to see file with predatory micro transactions... we already had $60 games like COD, Battlefield, FIFA, NBA2K, etc... that are full price games with tons of micro transactions on top which bring their projected per user game value a lot higher than $60.

Small or medium sized studios with a new IP (we all want NEW IP’s, right?) take a far heavier risk compared to Sequel #6 of a major blockbuster IP that kind of market itself/gets lots of gaming bloggers/“press” coverage because of its lineage. They need full prices, some people scream “greedy, you should only price at $30-40 at most!!!!”. When people realise this I will have an easier time acccepting their Netflix style dreams without debating them.

Gamers have, IMHO, forced those developers that did not want to make their games live services / micro transaction filled experiences (which is what those same gamers wished not to happen and these developers complied with) compete with one or both arms tied behind their backs as they had their MSRP artificially limited.
 
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Hitchyhero

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Gamepass will never be accepted by Sony fans until PS gets its equivilent.

Until then the renting, worthless, and unsustainable arguments will stick around (and dissappear when ps now becomes a worthy rival)
 
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pasterpl

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It's not value if you already own the games (most of them for free or dirt cheap) and the rest you were never going to buy anyway.

Gamepass is only giving me duplicates that I get elsewhere and since they are rentals I don't bother starting them.

ie: Dirt 4 is 1$ on Fanatical right now and it was on GP. I would just play that until Dirt 5 price drops.
No need, dirt5 is now on gamepass
 

TheAssist

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Ok, I am a little late to the party here but its funny that he says that he has seen all the games that are coming out for PS5. Then realized he had to pay money for them and so he decided to get the console that doesnt have any first party AAA exclusives to begin with, so he doesnt have to pay for anything. Cant fault the logic.

I mean I get it. Sony is expensive and MS, right now at least, is not. Sony is trying to push itself as a premium gaming brand with premium prices while MS cant compete on quality (right now anyways) and therefore goes with quantity over quality. Its like Whole Foods vs Walmart, but somehow with much more fanboys.

Its completely reasonable for many people to say that they just want GP for all their gaming needs, especially when you are on a tight budget. Its also very reasonable that you are fine with spending 80€ on a first party AAA game when you really like these kinds of games, because honestly there is no other company right now that can even dream about making a Last of Us, Uncharted, GoT, or God of War. These games are single player focused, story driven games with no second revenue stream. They are way to expensive to make and dont bring in the kind of money that an EA or Activision needs. They are premium products in a market full of fast food AAA gaming and thats why I personally like them.

But I'm in this hobby for about 24 years now and can appreciate the fine difference between Tomb Raider and Uncharted. Or Ghost of Tsushima and Assasins Creed. For most people its very minor, even insignificant to the point that they don't care. For me it makes all the difference and justifies the higher price tag.

So apparently Sony is marketing to me. Someone who's been with them (and PC gaming) for over 20 years, who is a grown adult with money to spend but limited time who seeks for these high budget, polished, story focused games. One and done exercises and dont try to nickel and dime me all the way through with XP Boosts or stupid outfits and emotes. Something no other company can give me right now. Or at least not at the same rate with quite the same quality.

Microsoft is focusing on a different crowd of gamers. Which is aaaaabsolutely fine with me. Maybe after MS puts out some quality titles I might even sub for a few months each year to play their games. Its just that the business model isnt made for people like me. Who play through a game once and then go on to the next big thing. Because the next big thing wont be on gamepass unless its from MS themselves and subbing for like 3 months a year to play 3 of their expensive to make games isnt going to make them enough money to keep this up. Its a different model for a different type of gamer and as soon as everybody understands that and can accept this (and the fact that both systems can live next to each other) the sooner we can leave behind these kind of ridiculous articles.
 

Zoro7

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Gamepass will never be accepted by Sony fans until PS gets its equivilent.

Until then the renting, worthless, and unsustainable arguments will stick around (and dissappear when ps now becomes a worthy rival)
There is a Sony equivalent. It’s called PSnow.
 
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MonarchJT

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?

A game that makes, years after development started, exactly its budget back is hardly breaking even (unless the development cycle is short inflation starts to count), but not being a first party you take away a cut from that... still this is a very poor investment opportunity cost wise as you have zero profit margins.

Some, many, of these businesses had to raise capital to start with, may need to make investments, etc... operating with 0% profit margins or very low ones is an extremely risky or impractical point of view.

Then again, you may have a much less capitalist friendly attitude than I do (and believe me I am no laissez-faire capitalist), so we may disagree on bigger investments (game development costs have risen) deserving higher Return on Investment/profit margins as you are locking for years a bigger portion of cash and thus increasing your risk. I do not think it is practical to see it otherwise.

Especially for series that are not amenable to or that we gamers would not want to see file with predatory micro transactions... we already had $60 games like COD, Battlefield, FIFA, NBA2K, etc... that are full price games with tons of micro transactions on top which bring their projected per user game value a lot higher than $60.

Small or medium sized studios with a new IP (we all want NEW IP’s, right?) take a far heavier risk compared to Sequel 6 of a major blockbuster IO that kind of market itself/gets lots of gaming bloggers/“press” coverage because of its lineage. They need full prices, some people scream “greedy, you should only price at $30-40 at most!!!!”. When people realise this I will have an easier time acccepting their Netflix style dreams without debating them.

Gamers have, IMHO, forced those developers that did not want to make their games live services / micro transaction filled experiences (which is what those same gamers wished not to happen and these developers complied with) compete with one or both arms tied behind their backs as they had their MSRP artificially limited.
Sorry for my late edit ). I am not well acquainted with the economics behind video game production. I don't know if the production costs we read around are early projections or end-of-cycle report, but it is beyond doubt that the (enormous) profits on the software are there, we see it every year in the fiscal reports of Sony, Ms and Nintendo. I agree with you that the investment risk is very high especially if you do not have the financial support of an investor behind it, I am convinced that in fact with the price we also pay the investment risk.
And although I understand who invests and wants to return to business risk in the shortest time frame by increasing the cost of games, on the other hand I have to say that games are becoming an almost luxury product. Not many families can afford a to buy impulsively a full price new console with 3 or 4 games especially if they have more than one child. At least not in europe
 
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MonarchJT

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Ok, I am a little late to the party here but its funny that he says that he has seen all the games that are coming out for PS5. Then realized he had to pay money for them and so he decided to get the console that doesnt have any first party AAA exclusives to begin with, so he doesnt have to pay for anything. Cant fault the logic.
Stopped to read you here warrior. go to sleep
 

Hitchyhero

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Bottom line is that its a rental service. You stop paying and you walk away with nothing.

Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

Its a good deal, but then Playstation plus isn't too shabby given that if you own a PS5 you're getting 48 games a year plus the collection titles.

Why doesn't the same argument pop up for ps+ and the collection. As far as I'm aware, if you stop your sub you lose access to all those games.

I constantly hear this argument used against gamepass but people have no issue with it for ps+, ps collection, and things like Spotify, Netflix, disney+ etc. Just seems rather odd that across other platforms and media there's no issue but 90% of Sony fans are dead against gamepass because 'I don't like renting'. I can guarantee that these people have media subs for other things.
 

nosseman

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So - PS5 will have exclusives and Xbox Series X will have exclusives.

On PS5 every exlusive will cost $70 and probably the same for Xbox BUT on Xbox all the exclusives are also available day 1 on Gamepass?

Is there any Xbox exclusive game NOT coming to Gamepass also?
 
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Hitchyhero

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So - PS5 will have exclusives and Xbox Series X will have exclusives.

On PS5 every exlusive will cost $70 and probably the same for Xbox BUT on Xbox all the exclusives are also available day 1 on Gamepass?

Is there any Xbox exclusive game NOT coming to Gamepass also?
If MS own the ip/studio or publish the game, then it will end up on gamepass. That wil cover Forza, gears, halo, elder scrolls, wolfenstein, doom, fallout etc.

There could be a scenario where an exclusive is developed for xbox by a third party studio but it doesn't end up on gamepass.
 
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Il Comodino

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On psnow you do not receive any exclusives at launch. It's okay for games of past generations and little more (at least at the moment)
PS Now it's the same of Game Pass but PS now does not receive exclusives at launch, ok and which exciting exclusives does Xbox have or will have at launch from now until the next 2 years?
 

MonarchJT

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PS Now it's the same of Game Pass but PS now does not receive exclusives at launch, ok and which exciting exclusives does Xbox have or will have at launch from now until the next 2 years?
halo,fable,forza Horizon,forza Motorsport,hellblade2,Starfield,Bright Memory, ark2, just to name a few (there are lots more)
 
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YOU PC BRO?!

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I can empathise as both a PS5 and Series X owner.

The £20 price increase (£50 - £70) is equivalent to an almost $30 price hike on gamers here in the UK. Considering we were already paying more per title than you guys in the US I think there would be justifiable outrage if game prices ended up at $99 per title in the US (£70 at todays exchange rate is ~$97). That's what Sony are trying to charge over here and it is absurd.
 
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MonarchJT

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I said exciting... for me all this title are boring and not relevant
ahhaah i was really waiting for it ))) I had no doubts you would have answered this way. Ok then you should run and buy that exciting AA arcade Returnal for 70 euros and let us play all these boring titles in peace
 
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Hitchyhero

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PS Now it's the same of Game Pass but PS now does not receive exclusives at launch, ok and which exciting exclusives does Xbox have or will have at launch from now until the next 2 years?
Wish ps fans arguments would be consistent.

Why is gamepass unsustainable as many are claiming it to be, if PS now 'more or less' has the same games, but are charging much less.

Going by the pricing, MS are charging more per month for the service, for including the first party exclusives. They have much more subscribers too, so does this now the 'unsustainable' argument now..... You can't have it both ways.

"games are same across both ps now and gamepass" but "gamepass is unsustainable" even though they charge more, whilst PS now is okay.
 
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Il Comodino

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ahhaah i was really waiting for it ))) I had no doubts you would have answered this way. Ok then you should run and buy that AA the returnal for 70 euros and let us play all these boring titles in peace
:) don't worry, returnal for me it's not rilevant too, so i won't buy it
 
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kuncol02

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PS Now it's the same of Game Pass but PS now does not receive exclusives at launch, ok and which exciting exclusives does Xbox have or will have at launch from now until the next 2 years?
Halo, Flight Simulator.
Actually we should not talk about exclusives, but first party games because who cares if someone else cannot play game you can (unless you are fanboy).
 

MonarchJT

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:) don't worry, returnal to for me it's not rilevant too, so i won't buy it
Honestly the gamepass price is so affordable which is like buying two games a year. Dear, Comodino you are forced to do amazing stunts and mental gymnastics to find negative points as something impossible to judge as personal taste. You will understand for yourself that it is too easy to say "no PlayStation game is exciting for me" (change playstation with xbox or nintendo depends who you are a fan for) and we are done.
Always the same old story. "GamePass is not economically sustainable" "I want to own the games" "I prefer other exclusives and buy them individually"
I wonder if people truly play consoles every now and then
 
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Il Comodino

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Wish ps fans arguments would be consistent.

Why is gamepass unsustainable as many are claiming it to be, if PS now 'more or less' has the same games, but are charging much less.

Going by the pricing, MS are charging more per month for the service, for including the first party exclusives. They have much more subscribers too, so does this now the 'unsustainable' argument
For me Gamepass with halo or forza at launch, it's the same of Psnow without exlusive at launch, it's not so hard to understand; of course maybe for you or others will be different.
 

Hitchyhero

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For me Gamepass with halo or forza at launch, it's the same of Psnow without exlusive at launch, it's not so hard to understand; of course maybe for you or others will be different.
That's fine. It's not for you. But you didn't answer my question. PS fans have being saying that gamepass is unsustainable because MS can't be making money off it. We then get loads of 'concern' threads about it.

Now your saying PS now and Gamepass has the same games (bar MS first party exclusives day 1).

Im looking at the pricing of each and PS now is much less... Whilst MS charges more (probably for including those first party titles). So why is gamepass considered unsustainable by ps fans but PS now for that low price with 'mostly the same games' never considered unsustainable.

If they do indeed have mostly the same games as you claim.... Should we start having daily concern threads on how ps now is unsustainable?
 
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MonarchJT

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For me Gamepass with halo or forza at launch, it's the same of Psnow without exlusive at launch, it's not so hard to understand; of course maybe for you or others will be different.
probably you have not followed the latest news. of all acquisitions and games in development. The old "it has only halo, gear and forza" story, doesn't pay anymore. After Bethesda acquisition Ms has twice as many First party studios as the competition at the moment
 
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Il Comodino

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Honestly the gamepass price is so affordable which is like buying two games a year. Dear, Comodino you are forced to do amazing stunts and mental gymnastics to find negative points as something impossible to judge as personal taste. You will understand for yourself that it is too easy to say "no PlayStation game is exciting for me" (change playstation with xbox or nintendo depends who you are a fan for)
Are we talking about content and game or about what it' "affordable"? Game Pass and Psnow can cost 1 €/$/£ per year but if they don't have exciting games for who pays that money for, what is it worth?

Both MS and Sony have that way, maybe Ms will push more on Gamepass than sony ok, but who care if you don't put ALL the games at launch.

look netflix, more, movie and content every week, not only old movie
 

MonarchJT

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Are we talking about content and game or about what it' "affordable"? Game Pass and Psnow can cost 1 €/$/£ per year but if they don't have exciting games for who pays that money for, what is it worth?

Both MS and Sony have that way, maybe Ms will push more on Gamepass than sony ok, but who care if you don't put ALL the games at launch.

look netflix, more, movie and content every week, not only old movie
You don't have to sub ..maybe the service isn't for you ....but you will understand for yourself how convenient it is compared to the rest of the market. Not for nothing Psnow only has 2.2m subs from 2014 and Gamepass 20+ m from 2017
 
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Why doesn't the same argument pop up for ps+ and the collection. As far as I'm aware, if you stop your sub you lose access to all those games.

I constantly hear this argument used against gamepass but people have no issue with it for ps+, ps collection, and things like Spotify, Netflix, disney+ etc. Just seems rather odd that across other platforms and media there's no issue but 90% of Sony fans are dead against gamepass because 'I don't like renting'. I can guarantee that these people have media subs for other things.

The difference I guess is that plus isn't being pushed as "the only service you need" in the way that GamePass is.

I mean, can you imagine if this thread was about jumping to PS5 because of Xbox exclusives? Would Plus figure so largely even though it offers much the same sort of subscription arrangement!
 

Hitchyhero

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Going further on the unsustainable gamepass claims.....

PS now: £50 per year
Gamepass ultimate: £10.99 pm or £131.88

MS had 18 million subs by end of Jan. Prob close to 20 now. PS now has 2.2.

PS fans claim the two services 'more or less' have the same games, bar those first party exclusives. But MS charge more to include them.

PS fans: where are your daily threads on PS now unsistainability?
 

Il Comodino

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That's fine. It's not for you. But you didn't answer my question. PS fans have being saying that gamepass is unsustainable because MS can't be making money off it. We then get loads of 'concern' threads about it.

Now your saying PS now and Gamepass has the same games (bar MS first party exclusives day 1).

Im looking at the pricing of each and PS now is much less... Whilst MS charges more (probably for including those first party titles). So why is gamepass considered unsustainable by ps fans but PS now for that low price with 'mostly the same games' never considered unsustainable.

If they do indeed have mostly the same games as you claim.... Should we start having daily concern threads on how ps now is unsustainable?
:) why do I have to answer you about what is sustainable for MS or not? I don't care about sustainability that will always be a MS problem not mine, yours or someone else's.

I am not interested in the cost of games increasing or decreasing, the market as it was or how it will be in 5 years, I am interested today, I choose today and today it is not worth spending 1 euro for Psnow and Gamepass for me because there are relevant games. When it will be different I will have no problem changing, indeed maybe I will be one of the fastest to change as I did for the use of music and for the use of video streaming.

The point is that now for me the Gamepass and the PSnow as they are set up, are equivalent.
 

MonarchJT

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The difference I guess is that plus isn't being pushed as "the only service you need" in the way that GamePass is.

I mean, can you imagine if this thread was about jumping to PS5 because of Xbox exclusives? Would Plus figure so largely even though it offers much the same sort of subscription arrangement!
because psnow it has nothing to do with gamepass.
- It does not have the exclusives at launch.
- No third party will launch the game even on Psnow (as happened with gp)
- Does not include sub services such as EA Play
- Very few third parties release the game in a short time on Psnow unlike what we have seen many times happen on GP like Dirt5 or Devil May cry 5 etc etc.
 
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Mr.Xbox

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Looks to me like there will be enough great exclusives on Xbox and PlayStation systems this gen to justify getting both....that's what I'm gonna do anyway.
This is the thing, people bang on about Playstation but MS have made huge aquisitions we know they have some games coming including a shit-ton more due to Bethesda, people just have to be patient
 

Hitchyhero

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This is the thing, people bang on about Playstation but MS have made huge aquisitions we know they have some games coming including a shit-ton more due to Bethesda, people just have to be patient
But all bathesda titles will be on PS 🤭
 
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