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PS5 and Xbox Series X GPU TFLOPs Difference “Probably” Won’t Matter in the Long Run – Hellpoint Developer

DynamiteCop!

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Say 18% and that is it...the rest is speculation on your part (like it would be and was in my mind thinking that the end performance different is less than the small already TFLOPS one relatively speaking).

You are trying hard to make it a fact that it is likely a lot wider, which you do not know it is true, but of course assume the worst regarding Sony (disregard anything they have said) and ideal conditions about MS (believe everything they have said)... yup, sounds fair :rolleyes:?
No it's factually not speculation because we know for a fact that the GPU's frequency is variable and scales downwardly in instances.

It's 18% to an unknown higher percentage than that. Stop.
 

Panajev2001a

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The hell? 95% of the media back then was trashing the Xbox One and saying how much more powerful the PS4 was.

The irony of you claiming revisionism while doing such blatant revisionism is astonishing.

“PS4 is Sony’s last console” “Pearls before swine, why the always online DRM paradise was not understood by thick gamers” “Architecture balance” “inventors of DirectX” “Doubled bandwidth adding up both pools numbers, 210+ GB/S for the ESRAM, etc...” “Do not look much in PS4’s sales” nice revisionist history attempt ;).
 

DeepEnigma

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The hell? 95% of the media back then was trashing the Xbox One and saying how much more powerful the PS4 was.

The irony of you claiming revisionism while doing such blatant revisionism is astonishing.

NO YOU!

“PS4 is Sony’s last console” “Pearls before swine, why the always online DRM paradise was not understood by thick gamers” “Architecture balance” “inventors of DirectX” “Doubled bandwidth adding up both pools numbers, 210+ GB/S for the ESRAM, etc...” “Do not look much in PS4’s sales” nice revisionist history attempt ;).

"iNfInItE pOwEr oF tHe cLoUd!"
 
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Panajev2001a

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No it's factually not speculation because we know for a fact that the GPU's frequency is variable and scales downwardly in instances.

It's 18% to an unknown higher percentage than that. Stop.

It is not factual despite how much you wish it to be. Getting angry does not prove your point with any more weight.
The PS5 as cheap reactionary half hearted step narrative has not stuck, stop throwing it at the wall (... and disingenuously pretending you are doing anything but that).
 
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MCplayer

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But guys lets be honest.

The truth is that, no matter the hardware, exclusives will always surprise us, both xbox, pc and ps, so lets just shut up about this nonsense, xbox is more powerfull just like ps4 (at the begining was more powerfull) or ps3, OG xbox at their respect timelines, and still xbox 360, one and ps2 had amazing looking games, it will happen again and forever, the weakest and the strongest will both come in top, multiplat yeah, can look better on the strongest one but both will not be used to the very 1% left of power, thats the exclusive games job.

"Trying to look like a good guy"
 
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DynamiteCop!

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It is not factual despite how much you wish it to be. Getting angry does not prove your point with any more weight. Your PS5 as cheap reactionary half hearted step narrative has not stuck, stop throwing it into the wall (... and pretend you are doing anything but that).
Why would I be angry? I'm listing facts and you're doing whatever it is you do.

Series X's GPU is 18% more powerful than the PS5's GPU at its peak of 2.23Ghz, and it lowers frequency meaning that 18% gap increases to a presently unknown higher figure.

That's a fact, stop talking to me.
 
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Deleted member 17706

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Of course it won't. It's a smaller relative power difference than PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. I'm sure we'll see differences in resolution, but that shit doesn't matter to most people in the end.
 

Panajev2001a

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Why would I be angry? I'm listing facts and you're doing whatever it is you do.

Series X's GPU is 18% more powerful than the PS5's GPU at its peak of 2.23Ghz, and it lowers frequency meaning that 18% gap increases to a presently unknown higher figure.

Sure the XBX’s peak TFLOPS rate is 18% higher than pS5’s peak TFLOPS rate and that gap may widen to 18.01% or maybe even 18.024% in some rare circumstances. Happier? Does it change things much? Nope :).

That's a fact, stop talking to me.


It takes two babe ;)
 
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Deleted member 17706

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Clearly, since Lockhart will supposedly be a thing that gets support from the same fanbase on here. ;)

And Lockhart will probably be a fine option for people with 1080p TVs who want to play the latest games, but not spend more money on a box.

Maybe I just lack the right perspective. I'm the kind of person who wants the best experience possible, which is why I have gaming PCs and play all 3rd party titles I can there.
 

DeepEnigma

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And Lockhart will probably be a fine option for people with 1080p TVs who want to play the latest games, but not spend more money on a box.

Maybe I just lack the right perspective. I'm the kind of person who wants the best experience possible, which is why I have gaming PCs and play all 3rd party titles I can there.

Not disagreeing with that perspective. Just wanted my dig at the doublespeak I see constantly.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

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But RT does, and that's something the XSX will be better at.
 

ZywyPL

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Why is EVERONYE in the whole INDUSTRY - every dev, every journalist - trying HARD AS FUCK to downplay the huge power difference and relevance of power? Like, suddenly power doesn't matter?! wtf is going on? Right before the PS5 GDC talk the narrative was completely different. What is going on? This is crazy.

Wasn't even remotely like this during XBOX ONE reveal. lol

Power doesn't matter because the gap is only 20%, but thanks to its SSD PS5 will be able to achieve things unimaginable for XBX. However - the same amazing SSD with 9TF gets all the warriors triggered AF.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Power doesn't matter because the gap is only 20% but thanks to its SSD PS5 will be able to achieve things unimaginable for XBX. However - the same amazing SSD with 9TF gets all the warriors triggered AF.

Yeah, I was not just targeted by an X warrior because in his opinion I did not pay enough deference to the sacred TFLOPS difference and variable clocks, surely it is others who are FLOPS triggered.
 
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To be honest, probably not. Previous consoles always had this kind of difference. Especially the PlayStation, which always tended to have tweaks and hardware specific accelerations. Especially with today’s GPU; how are those FLOPS used?” Any dedicated physics cores? What about audio processing? Neural network? And let’s not start on raytracing! Doesn’t matter if you have twice the FLOPS, but can only use half of them, right?

Wow I actually feel kinda embarrassed for him if he's a developer and this was somehow his takeaway. It's like he's intentionally ignored every single optimization/customization feature MS's mentioned, and also hooked into the fake narrative that somehow GPUs, which are designed for massively parallel data calculations, will have massive bottleneck issues in even modestly saturating their hardware, yet somehow such a problem would only affect XSX? :pie_roffles:

Again, gotta take grains of salt with these dev quotes, in one way or another.
 
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Ar¢tos

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But RT does, and that's something the XSX will be better at.
RT... the fool's gold of the 9th gen...
If they had invested in hardware to facilitate better AI instead would have been much more beneficial to the gamers.
Shiny games aren't necessarily good games, especially if they still have the dumbfuck AI of current gen that was, in many aspects, a downgrade from the gen before.
 

DForce

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Power doesn't matter because the gap is only 20%, but thanks to its SSD PS5 will be able to achieve things unimaginable for XBX. However - the same amazing SSD with 9TF gets all the warriors triggered AF.
If power didn't matter, then no one would be excited about next gen consoles.

However, out side of bragging rights, fans don't care about having the most powerful console. You're not going to have the majority of PS fans switch because the Xbox is more powerful.



but thanks to its SSD PS5 will be able to achieve things unimaginable for XBX.

And weren't Xbox fans saying that the extra speeds for the SSD would only be for first party games because third party devs will go for parity? :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

DynamiteCop!

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RT... the fool's gold of the 9th gen...
If they had invested in hardware to facilitate better AI instead would have been much more beneficial to the gamers.
Shiny games aren't necessarily good games, especially if they still have the dumbfuck AI of current gen that was, in many aspects, a downgrade from the gen before.
F.E.A.R. had better AI than any game released since and that ran on single core CPU's from 2004, hardware power isn't the issue.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

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18% if the system can maintain GPU at max clock, but gets to 20% if the 2% frequency comes about from a 10% power reduction as Cerny said in Road to PS5 presentation.

Ehh... I'm not going to jump into speculation, but either way, PS4 Pro @ 4.2 TFLOPS vs Xbox One X at 6 TFLOPS is a 43% power difference as measured in TFLOPS, and no one really gives a shit about the differences we see outside of pixel peepers and console warriors. Now, if we start seeing differences outside of resolution and some post processing, like 30 fps vs. 60 fps, then I think people might start to care.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

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If they had invested in hardware to facilitate better AI instead would have been much more beneficial to the gamers.
What would you propose? Because with the current CPU's you can go along way. They could've added another specific GPU purely for AI, but that would be very expensive AND not sure how easy that is for developers
 
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Ehh... I'm not going to jump into speculation, but either way, PS4 Pro @ 4.2 TFLOPS vs Xbox One X at 6 TFLOPS is a 43% power difference as measured in TFLOPS, and no one really gives a shit about the differences we see outside of pixel peepers and console warriors. Now, if we start seeing differences outside of resolution and some post processing, like 30 fps vs. 60 fps, then I think people might start to care.
While 2TF or 18% doesn't seem like big numbers, let's all remember what could be accomplished in 1.8 TF. I feel like there is a certain level of fidelity that will be missing from PS5 games. On the flip side with the PS5 being allowed to load very many assets all at once, I feel like LOD balancing will be less of an issue than on Xbox, however, that's not to say it will be a huge issue regardless as it's all in how the game is designed.

I think the biggest difference will be PS5 will have lots of objects on screen, with less detail, whereas Xbox will have less objects on screen with more detail.
 

DynamiteCop!

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While 2TF or 18% doesn't seem like big numbers, let's all remember what could be accomplished in 1.8 TF. I feel like there is a certain level of fidelity that will be missing from PS5 games. On the flip side with the PS5 being allowed to load very many assets all at once, I feel like LOD balancing will be less of an issue than on Xbox, however, that's not to say it will be a huge issue regardless as it's all in how the game is designed.

I think the biggest difference will be PS5 will have lots of objects on screen, with less detail, whereas Xbox will have less objects on screen with more detail.
It's barely an issue now with HDD's, do you really think it's going to be an issue with 40x the I/O? Of course not, it wouldn't even be an issue with a 5x increase. Both of these SSD setups eclipse any veil of perceptible usefulness beyond loading times.

It's like the CPU, there's a certain threshold that needs to be met and then you're good for years, and years, and years while having to update your GPU multiple times. Both of these SSD's fall into a huge gulf of diminished returns on investment and figures.
 
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Had to recalculate some things: so basically, gauging the percentage delta between PS5 and XSX depends on which way you work it, i.e if taking PS5's figure to scale up to XSX, or taking XSX's figure and scaling down to PS5, because that affects the percentage.

For example, if you take PS5 figure as baseline, the difference in TF from the peak PS5 TF and XSX is about 18.2%. However, if you take XSX baseline and scale down to PS5 peak TF, the difference is closer to 15.5%. Same logic, if you take the 2% frequency reduction Cerny mentions, that puts PS5 to about 10.07 TF. Scaling with PS5 as base to XSX, that gives you about 20.6%, but if you scale from the inverse it comes out to about 17.5%

All would be right but, IMO, you scale up from the lower figure to the higher one, rather than the inverse, because the whole point of that type of comparison is to illustrate how much more the larger figure is over the smaller one so the smaller figure would be the reference point. So in terms of PS5 and XSX TF delta the correct percentages are 18.2% - 20.6%, and that's accounting for if PS5's GPU doesn't have a reduction in frequency beyond 2% for power load-demanding scenarios (which we won't know for sure until game footage running on hardware actually comes out and can be analyzed minutely).

Which is how you get the XBO < PS4 delta percentage for example (so apologies to Vawn because technically they were correct stating 40% and I was wrong stating 35%).

Ehh... I'm not going to jump into speculation, but either way, PS4 Pro @ 4.2 TFLOPS vs Xbox One X at 6 TFLOPS is a 43% power difference as measured in TFLOPS, and no one really gives a shit about the differences we see outside of pixel peepers and console warriors. Now, if we start seeing differences outside of resolution and some post processing, like 30 fps vs. 60 fps, then I think people might start to care.

TBF, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X were held back by the respective base systems. If we saw games actually developed with the mid-gen refreshes in mind exclusively, differences would've been more pronounced, though maybe not to the degree of certain base PS4 and XBO titles were.

But I do agree that TFs aren't the only metric to be looking at these console through; it's about a ton of other things in addition to that. Even when it comes to TFs, just seeing them only for visual/resolution purposes is limiting the scope of what GPUs will provide next gen in areas such as GPGPU asynchronous compute.
 

SupremeHoodie

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If power didn't matter, then no one would be excited about next gen consoles.

However, out side of bragging rights, fans don't care about having the most powerful console. You're not going to have the majority of PS fans switch because the Xbox is more powerful.





And weren't Xbox fans saying that the extra speeds for the SSD would only be for first party games because third party devs will go for parity? :messenger_grinning_sweat:
I don’t think the average gamer cares about making ps fanboys into Xbox fans. Just look at the global sales. Sony could release anything and people would still buy it. Song brand power is huge.
 
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Jan 21, 2019
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It's barely an issue now with HDD's, do you really think it's going to be an issue with 40x the I/O? Of course not, it wouldn't even be an issue with a 5x increase. Both of these SSD setups eclipse any veil of perceptible usefulness beyond loading times.

It's like the CPU, there's a certain threshold that needs to be met and then you're good for years, and years, and years while having to update your GPU multiple times. Both of these SSD's fall into a huge gulf of diminished returns on investment and figures.
I agree with you. I feel like both consoles will be amazing, and produce games like we've never seen before. The PS5 has an amazing SSD that will stand the test of time. But I feel as though it will be bottlenecked by the GPU and what it can display with the bandwidth it has.

The Xbox has the more balanced system in my mind and will have the same/similar results. Sure, the SSD isn't as fast, but it's still fast and in my honest opinion, the GPU will clearly be able keep up with it.

But who knows
 
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DynamiteCop!

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I agree with you. I feel like both consoles will be amazing, and produce games like we've never seen before. The PS5 has an amazing SSD that will stand the test of time. But I feel as though it will be bottlenecked by the GPU and what it can display with the bandwidth it has.

The Xbox has the more balanced system in my mind and will have the same/similar results. Sure, the SSD isn't as fast, but it's still fast and in my honest opinion, the GPU will clearly be able keep up with it.

But who knows
And that's exactly what I've stated, people keep throwing out "Well it can load all of these things into a scene at once!" and then I come in and say "Yeah? Well it has to be able to render that scene, you realize this right?", and then it's crickets. You can't just overflow a scene with rendering data and expect no GPU limited bottleneck to present itself.

Both SSD's are an order of magnitude beyond anything that will ever be required, and at the end of the day memory will still be the most important factor this will merely take a bit of the strain off of it. People are expecting magic, and I have no idea why.
 
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Ar¢tos

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What would you propose? Because with the current CPU's you can go along way. They could've added another specific GPU purely for AI, but that would be very expensive AND not sure how easy that is for developers
I was thinking of using machine learning to constantly improve AI within a game in response to how a player plays it. Obviously graphics are what sells games and casual players don't really want big challenges....
 

Mista

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The hell? 95% of the media back then was trashing the Xbox One and saying how much more powerful the PS4 was.
The Xbox One was garbage though and the launch was garbage too. A console that runs games on 900p when the competition is doing 1080p

The Xbox One deserved every trashing it got until the Xbox One X came around.
 

geordiemp

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While 2TF or 18% doesn't seem like big numbers, let's all remember what could be accomplished in 1.8 TF. I feel like there is a certain level of fidelity that will be missing from PS5 games. On the flip side with the PS5 being allowed to load very many assets all at once, I feel like LOD balancing will be less of an issue than on Xbox, however, that's not to say it will be a huge issue regardless as it's all in how the game is designed.

I think the biggest difference will be PS5 will have lots of objects on screen, with less detail, whereas Xbox will have less objects on screen with more detail.

Not really, both will do 4k60 and high detail graphics and probably cap the frame rate and be done with it.

Maybe XSX will a have a few rays more, but allot of ray tracing will kill both consoles allot anyway.

And thats just assuming that there are no other things that affect performance, APIs,, caches, scrubbers, bandwidth and contention, and other clever stuff like VRS or Coherency or teh details of Geometry engine, or indeed the co processors and how they work.

Dont be so confident that the TF % will be the performance %, you dont know.

At least TF is a simple number to argue over.
 
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GHG

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The Xbox One was garbage though and the launch was garbage too. A console that runs games on 900p when the competition is doing 1080p

The Xbox One deserved every trashing it got until the Xbox One X came around.

It wasn't just the lower resolutions either, it was lower resolutions and lower framerates in a lot of cases.

That thing was severely bottlenecked and outside of Playground Games I didn't see any developer get a good handle on it.
 

Gamerguy84

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My favorite one Ive seen here, cant remember the name, was in a conversation like this and said "yeah bevause there is no difference between 9 and 13.
 

Mista

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It wasn't just the lower resolutions either, it was lower resolutions and lower framerates in a lot of cases.

That thing was severely bottlenecked and outside of Playground Games I didn't see any developer get a good handle on it.
Overall it was garbage. It was embarrassing
 

Self

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F.E.A.R. had better AI than any game released since and that ran on single core CPU's from 2004, hardware power isn't the issue.

Yes I would agree. Not a power-thing, but rather a coding-thing.
Apart from F. E. A. R and the Killzone Series the A. I has been extremely shitty.

Let's see where this 'neural-thing' leads to. Possibly a dead end like the power of the cloud-thing.