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PS5 and PS4 System Software Updates release globally today. VRR update coming soon.

MarkMe2525

Gold Member
Ugh, that is a terrible attitude. Encourage unstable frame rates because you expect VRR to hide it? WTF is wrong with some of you people? Not everyone is going to have a VRR enabled TV!

We should be pushing for technical excellence and locked frame rates.



Man, how do you square this up with VRR not working on Halo, the supposed flagship title for the company and system? You know, the game that's printed on the box?

This whole conversation is dumb.

Instead of a thread where people are like "hey, sounds good" and it's over it's the same handful of people sending this crap off the rails. Over. And over. And over. I'm out again on this one.

Let me summarize this thread real quick. "PS5 is about to get VRR? Cool." Next?
Not in my opinion. If you read what I posted I mentioned the wide spread adoption of VRR as a contingency for the visual first approach. The attitude you're presenting sounds more like the stifling of progress. Imagine if attitudes such as yours stopped MS from requiring HDTV support on the 360 before the majority of homes had compatible sets. Not a perfect analogy, but probably just as good as your band-aid one.

The name of the game in the console space is doing more with less, and VRR helps with this.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Where is that panel? Because it doesn't seen to exists.
While the IQ difference is very minor it is still exists in all panels in the market... in OLED it become very evident.

But for me I will take a solid framerate game than anything you need to use VRR.
VRR is there to when you don't have a solid framerate.
Iq difference??

The only flaw i heard about was about some black flickering and lg already has a submenu to fix when it happen (because it doesn't always happen).

All these little flaws are gonna disappear with the new 2022 models most probably, at least on lg side since sony seems to have hard times getting vrr right on both their tv and consoles...
 
I'm just going to ask, and hopefully I can get a proper answer.

Is there a reason why Sony seems to be having great difficulty adding VRR?

Is it possible they can add it to PS4 pro as well? As the one X has it.

Genuinely curious.

My own hunch is because their Bravia TV line only just got VRR this month. I think it would be a bad look for Sony if they offered a VRR ready PS5 that could only use the feature on competitor's TVs. I doubt there is a big technical reason for the delay, probably just internal Sony politics. But that's just my theory.
 

Nankatsu

Member
Your 5 years old TV support VRR?

Nah, it packs native refresh rate of 120hz but no 2.1 ports. And since they wont enable the technology in older models, I'm left out of the boat.

In all honestly I'm perfectly fine with 60 fps.

I won't even think about switching TV's just because of this.
 
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Venuspower

Member
From what i saw they are very small problems and lg tv already has a fine tuning menu for blacks when this happen in the gaming bar (and they upgraded cx and c9 aswell)

This issue affects all display types and manufacturers. However, the problem has only really become known since OLEDs with VRR have been on the market.

The fine tune dark areas option is not a fix. It is more a setting to counteract the increased gamma curve. However, this has other disadvantages and is therefore more of a workaround. It also does not improve the flickering.

They are probably gonna solve any small problem in the 2022 series.

This issue is not a small problem. So far there is no evidence that LG Display fixed this issue in the latest panel generation. LG Display has to rework the hardware for this. I had also read that Samsung's QD OLEDs are also still affected by the problem.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Ugh, that is a terrible attitude. Encourage unstable frame rates because you expect VRR to hide it? WTF is wrong with some of you people? Not everyone is going to have a VRR enabled TV!

We should be pushing for technical excellence and locked frame rates.
The real question is what is wrong with people who lived in a cave for the last 30 years where uneven framerate on console never existed before vrr...

It is because we have decades of experience with framerate on console that we want vrr, not the opposite narrative that some people want to push...nobody is encouraging bad framerates because they don't need to be encouraged, they are a thing since forever, and things are not gonna change just because naive people say so.

Realism vs optimistic fairytales: the topic.

You can push for whatever you want, but it's not gonna happen...devs who cares about locked framerate are still gonna care, and the majority who doesn't care are gonna have a fix for their laziness, gamers win in any case.

Sorry if i sound like a jackass, but this whole "vrr is good or needed" argument is just idiotic to me...
 
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anthony2690

Member
My own hunch is because their Bravia TV line only just got VRR this month. I think it would be a bad look for Sony if they offered a VRR ready PS5 that could only use the feature on competitor's TVs. I doubt there is a big technical reason for the delay, probably just internal Sony politics. But that's just my theory.
I guess that could make sense, because people might be waiting for the feature to be available on the ps5 before considering upgrading their TVs.

I upgraded and got a HDMI 2.1 TV, capable off a 120fps and VRR after digitalfoundry, explained that vrr removes screen tearing & smooths out performance.
 

DJ12

Member
I was hoping someone would be pretty tech savvy and be able to tell me if it was hardware based or not, or whether it could just be patched in or not.

I probably should've just asked that instead. XD
No one at Sony is going to have it's biggest product basically advise against there own products.

Ps5 supports vrr, please go and buy an LG TV.

I don't think there are any technical limitations at all, the extra testing is probably to make sure it works best/not worse on their own tvs.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
This issue affects all display types and manufacturers. However, the problem has only really become known since OLEDs with VRR have been on the market.

The fine tune dark areas option is not a fix. It is more a setting to counteract the increased gamma curve. However, this has other disadvantages and is therefore more of a workaround. It also does not improve the flickering.



This issue is not a small problem. So far there is no evidence that LG Display fixed this issue in the latest panel generation. LG Display has to rework the hardware for this. I had also read that Samsung's QD OLEDs were also still affected by the problem.
Do you have a video where i can see how big this problem is?? From a good certified source if possible.

Because if it was as big as you say, people like df or hdtv test who care about iq would never promote vrr in their videos...
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I'm just going to ask, and hopefully I can get a proper answer.

Is there a reason why Sony seems to be having great difficulty adding VRR?

Is it possible they can add it to PS4 pro as well? As the one X has it.

Genuinely curious.

PS4 Pro, probably not, especially the HDMI 2.1 type it would need a new model with a new HDMI connector.

Freesync ? They could have, but that might also require some kind of hardware revision, I'm not sure.

But they've had since 2016 to add Freesync to PS4 Pro and they haven't. I don't see any reason they'll add it now.

No one at Sony is going to have it's biggest product basically advise against there own products.

Ps5 supports vrr, please go and buy an LG TV.

Yes, you can determine that pretty easily. The week(s) after Sony are able to get VRR working on their Bravia TVs, lo and behold the PS5 also gets VRR confirmation coming soon.

It's easy to guess they held it back on PS5 until they got it working on their own line of TVs first.

Look at that DJ12 DJ12 we're agreeing on more and more things !
 
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I guess that could make sense, because people might be waiting for the feature to be available on the ps5 before considering upgrading their TVs.

I upgraded and got a HDMI 2.1 TV, capable off a 120fps and VRR after digitalfoundry, explained that vrr removes screen tearing & smooths out performance.

VRR is an absolute game changer and extremely under-rated. People poo poo it I suspect have never used it. I've been using a 144hz Gsync monitor since 2016, and now an LG C1 OLED since last year. The lack of tearing is nice, but what people overlook is the lack of any judder in most games. Framerate drops to 57fps now feel barely different from 60fps - like it should.
 

ethomaz

Banned
This issue is not a small problem. So far there is no evidence that LG Display fixed this issue in the latest panel generation. LG Display has to rework the hardware for this. I had also read that Samsung's QD OLEDs are also still affected by the problem.
From what I read the issue exists in all panels... LCD LED included... it just more evident on OLEDs.

Edit - Fixed.
 
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Venuspower

Member
Do you have a video where i can see how big this problem is?? From a good certified source if possible.

Because if it was as big as you say, people like df or hdtv test who care about iq would never promote vrr in their videos...

There are a lot of different videos that show the issue. Vincent's video also has some charts in it:



From what I read the issue exists in all panels... LCD LED included... it just less evident on OLEDs.

*more evident on OLED. But yea. All panels have this issue.
 
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anthony2690

Member
VRR is an absolute game changer and extremely under-rated. People poo poo it I suspect have never used it. I've been using a 144hz Gsync monitor since 2016, and now an LG C1 OLED since last year. The lack of tearing is nice, but what people overlook is the lack of any judder in most games. Framerate drops to 57fps now feel barely different from 60fps - like it should.
Honestly off my greatest purchased ever in all honesty, when I see people complain about screen tearing or poor performance in games like elden ring, far cry 6 or other titles, I just think that doesn't sound like my experience at all XD

My time is wonderful, and it's safe to assume it's due to my TV :D
 

Mr Moose

Member
I'm just going to ask, and hopefully I can get a proper answer.

Is there a reason why Sony seems to be having great difficulty adding VRR?

Is it possible they can add it to PS4 pro as well? As the one X has it.

Genuinely curious.
One X has FreeSync, this is HDMI VRR.
I don't see any reason why PS4 Pro/PS5 can't support FreeSync.
 

Mr Moose

Member
One X and the new consoles have both. HDMI VRR and FreeSync via HDMI.
One X does not.

Samsung/LG TVs support FreeSync.
 
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Nankatsu

Member
One X does not.

Samsung/LG TVs support FreeSync.

Sony should do the same for older tv's.

GIF by iHeartRadio
 

Venuspower

Member
One X does not.

Nope. One X also has support for HDMI VRR. Otherwise HDMI VRR would not work with the LG C9 which does not support FreeSync without the EDID mod.

HDMI VRR and FreeSync via HDMI function technically identical. anyways. The only difference is the advertisement in the EDID.
 
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sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
Overabundant hand wringing aside, does this new update still cause online games not to launch correctly or has Sony already fixed that?
 

anthony2690

Member
One X has FreeSync, this is HDMI VRR.
I don't see any reason why PS4 Pro/PS5 can't support FreeSync.
Ah okay, I never had a capable tv that supported that supported it back when I had a one X, so wasn't aware it was actually freesync that one x supported (my bad)
 

Withnail

Member
But that's what is puzzling. There is system level support like on Series X, but then they also say that it can be done via updates. As far as I know, on XSX it does not need to be coded in any way (people thought Halo Infinite was proof it did, but Digital Foundry said the VRR issues are due to the game's weird vsync setup). It would be interesting to get a technical reason of what Sony mean by updates.
It's simple. Games coded with the latest SDK are guaranteed to work with VRR. Games coded with an older SDK are not VRR aware so you can use it but there's a small possibility that something will break. Devs can patch older games to use the new SDK if they want to.
 
Yeah the Ghostwire and Tales of Arise results blow away the whole we don't need it narrative and Sony are stating the benefits clearly in this statement as I've been saying for a long time.
Hopefully it just works and they are being over cautious like with PS4 games working, I don't see why it would cause any problems as it doesn't on Xbox since the Xbox One years ago, if it doesn't work it doesn't make anything worse, so that's a strange one.
That's patently false, given that in some television VRR create fluctuations in the luminosity and /or d active part of the post-processing, so it can actively be detrimental to the IQ. This is clearly reason enough to desire to deactivate it , expecially in the case that it is ineffective.
 
Everybody listen to me. VSYNC should NOT be disabled for VRR or else the frame rate has the opportunity to go PAST the VRR RANGE.

If you have a 120Hz screen and you disable vsync and remove the frame rate cap, as soon as your game reaches 121fps, VRR will no longer work and you'll get tearing and stutter.

It's best to leave vsync engaged so the TV never goes above the VRR range.
 
Imaagine the beauty of playing the games at a continuosly variable framerate that oscillate between 30 and 45.... a true vision

I mean, maybe a few games? Imagine them unlocking the framerate on HFW in resolution mode and it hovering in the low-to-mid 40s? All while retaining all the eye candy and resolution.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Everybody listen to me. VSYNC should NOT be disabled for VRR or else the frame rate has the opportunity to go PAST the VRR RANGE.

If you have a 120Hz screen and you disable vsync and remove the frame rate cap, as soon as your game reaches 121fps, VRR will no longer work and you'll get tearing and stutter.

It's best to leave vsync engaged so the TV never goes above the VRR range.
Usually can't disable V Sync on PlayStation. Its built in to most games. Pretty sure its why Sony is going to patch games for VRR support. Must be part of their SDK.
 

Reallink

Member

Seems like a feature they'd want to give a "future roadmap" shoutout to like they did VRR here. Such an omission suggests to me they probably couldn't get it working and it's dead. Cerny himself always referenced it as experimental and tentative.
 
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Swift_Star

Member
Seems like a feature they'd want to give a "future roadmap" shoutout to like they did VRR here, whose ommission suggests to me they couldn't get it working and it's dead.
What? No. The Tempest chip is their alternative to Dolby Atmos. It's there since day one, it has a headphone and a TV version and it'll have a soundbar version. You're 100% wrong here.
 
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dcmk7

Banned
I think the implementation might be a bit suspect.

Not sure if it's the kind of thing you can shoe horn in but happy to be proved wrong.
 
I think he is talking to pc users who can disable v-sync.
People keep saying in this thread that they need to update games to disable vsync, but vsync shouldn't be disabled with VRR because like I said, the frame rate could then be free to go outside of the VRR range and you DO NOT want that. Vsync stops the frame rate from going above max refresh rate.
 
I mean, maybe a few games? Imagine them unlocking the framerate on HFW in resolution mode and it hovering in the low-to-mid 40s? All while retaining all the eye candy and resolution.
I kind of doubt that this is what would happen with HFW framerate if unlocked. I tend to think thatit would vary wildly between 30 and 60, depending from the amount of stuff to render. Anyway, while I understand the desire for a VRR solution to help with some framerate fluctuations, I don't believe that a fluctuating framerate is better then a slightly lower, but perfetcly fixed framerate. Obviously , I could be wrong
 
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