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PS5’s True “Generation-Defining” Games Won’t Come Until 2022 Says Jim Ryan

Guilty_AI

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But seriously though, why do people still swallow crap talk like this?
For starters, i don't really expect sony games to deliver much in terms of innovation, at best great art direction
 
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Birdo

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Nothing next-gen has impressed me so far, but I think we are in for some good looking shit once the hardware masters deliver in a year or two (Polyphony Digital, Turn 10, and so on).
 

namekuseijin

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of course, that's when psvr2 is coming and flatgaming goes extinct
 
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VFXVeteran

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I wonder why that is? :pie_thinking:
But seriously though, why do people still swallow crap talk like this?
For starters, i don't really expect sony games to deliver much in terms of innovation, at best great art direction

Enigma, This guy is saying a logical statement. Why don't ya'll give him shit over it? Why don't you tell him he's a Sony hater for this comment? It's basically along the same lines of what I've said.
 
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synce

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Just enough time for a slim or pro PS5 to release. Funny to think there's people spending up to $1K on the beta unit all things considered
 

Dargor

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Has any of these journous asked him about the "we believe in generations" comment? Its like every feel days now, he says something that, at least in the face of it, goes against that idea.
 

Guilty_AI

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Why don't ya'll give him shit over it? Why don't you tell him he's a Sony hater for this comment? It's basically along the same lines of what I've said.
Probably because you react. I usually stop bothering after a few comments, since for many here anything less than "Sony is the best game maker of all time" equals blasphemy.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Enigma, This guy is saying a logical statement. Why don't ya'll give him shit over it? Why don't you tell him he's a Sony hater for this comment? It's basically along the same lines of what I've said.

You are not a victim.

Maybe it has to do with how you carry yourself hiding behind an “Industry Professional” tag, ya big baby.
 
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OrtizTwelve

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The PlayStation 5 has officially launched in all regions of the world, but it may be a while before truly transformational next-gen experiences arrive. Sony Interactive Entertainment CEO Jim Ryan famously stated that the company “believes in generations,” but a number of PS5 blockbusters including Spider-Man: Miles Morales, Horizon Forbidden West, and possibly God of War Ragnarok, are crossgen titles, and other Sony execs have hinted PS4 support will continue for at least another three years. Jim Ryan reiterated this idea in a new interview with the Russian News Agency TASS


So, if crossgen is going to be a reality of life for some time to come, when are those real next-gen PS5 experiences going to arrive? Stuff that wouldn’t even be imaginable on PS4? According to Ryan, they aren’t coming this year or even next year – 2022 is when the PS5’s power will be truly tapped.


Again, this doesn’t mean there won’t be PS5 exclusives before then – we already have two big ones in Demon’s Souls and the upcoming Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart. But it seems the real mind-blowing stuff with the fidelity of that amazing Unreal Engine 5 PS5 demo, is still some ways away.

The PlayStation 5 is available now worldwide. What do you think about Ryan’s comments? Are a couple years too long to wait for those generation-defining games? Or are you cool with this transitional period?




Uh oh.


It is both a business decision — to not ignore the current PS4 install base which is massive, and also a technical decision as these types of games do take time to develop to get “just right” for new hardware. Also, the current pandemic has probably slowed down game development.

You’re going to see a lot of PS4/PS5 cross generation games from SIE, they just won’t admit it because they want you to buy their new PS5 hardware and not say “well it’s coming to PS4 so I’ll just stick with it longer”.

It’s all $$$$$.
 

Perrott

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Bloodborne is literally metroid with better graphics, so of course that it could've been done on the super nintendo by lowering the overall visual quality of the game.
The point is that Second Son is not doing anything truly next-gen besides delivering a graphical leap, because at it's core is the same game that inFAMOUS 2 was.

Assassin's Creed: Unity, for instance, would not have been possible on PS3 because of things such as the massive crowds, the seamless transitions between most interiors and the city, the amount of geometry found in the streets of Paris, etc.
 

Tschumi

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You know, i don't envy the guy this job: he needs to walk back 8 months of fan word of mouth hype machine.. it was super successful, but there are bound to be things that we took for granted which are more nuanced~
 
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Dampf

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Games don't need ray tracing to look great. And also, there are some features specific to consoles (sampler feedback streaming, NOT sampler feedback) that are not on PC. Be positive.
Sampler Feedback Streaming is a use case of Sampler Feedback, the overall feature. It will absolutely come to PC I already confirmed it on the DX Developer Discord.

Still I disagree with VFXVet, the generation jump will be enormous once all the DX12 Ultimate features, Ryzen CPUs and Direct Storage are in full use, but that will happen in 2022 at the earliest, I fear.
 
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VFXVeteran

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You are not a victim.

Maybe it has to do with how you carry yourself hiding behind an “Industry Professional” tag, ya big baby.

We already addressed that. Come at me better than you do.

I gave my comments:
That guy is wishing upon a star.

Those words are so misleading and that's why people expect CGI graphics from nothing but a mid-low end graphics card. It's not in the cards.

All the bandwidth is already taken up in higher pixel count.

You heard it hear first, you will NOT see any kind of features that the PC GPUs struggle with on next-gen consoles. Period. All the 3d features that are already out is all you'll get. I can see an UE5 demo turning into a game but that's not much better than what we see today tbh.

Wait for PS6/PS7 or XSX3. PC is already showing the max visual tech features you can get and the consoles can't run them all.

and look at how you responded to me.

You’re right, we will get zero improvements in the pipelines. AssCreed is the end all be all.

Improvements never happened any generation, ever. You are peddling shit now.

Sarcasm. Insulting response.


So if I'm so repulsive.. engage in this guys comments instead of ignoring them.

But seriously though, why do people still swallow crap talk like this?
For starters, i don't really expect sony games to deliver much in terms of innovation, at best great art direction

Tell him how you disagree so I can see you in a logical conversation without any hate towards the person that disagrees with you and don't see what you see.

Here's what he had to say about Sony warriors:

Probably because you react. I usually stop bothering after a few comments, since for many here anything less than "Sony is the best game maker of all time" equals blasphemy.

Is that not true DeepEnigma DeepEnigma ? You look at how you responded to me and tell me that Guilty_AI Guilty_AI isn't speaking the truth.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Your the only one angry and shouting here. I'm sure there's a pc forum somewhere that would appreciate your opinions.

We are comparing the generational leap between ps4 and ps5. Which there is a graphical leap. We are not comparing to pc graphics. We all know pcs have the best graphics.

We don't need hostile reminding by you.

I keep asking for proof and noone seems to be able to give me any. Where are the receipts? There is no generational leap between Spiderman on PS4 and Spiderman MM on PS5. It's the same game engine, similar assets, etc.. How do you guys define a generational leap? Why does it only include a Sony game and not a 3rd party game? Surely they make leaps and bounds too.

I'm still looking for a game on the PS5 that is a complete overrun of the PS4 in image quality aside from the minor upscaled 4k and 60FPS.
 

VFXVeteran

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Your angle is all wrong. He’s not talking about just maxing GPU. He’s talking about the marriage of the whole system. During each new console launch, devs always say they are finally free to create whatever they want, but this gen, it’s more true than ever. The whole render pipeline being changed to accommodate for the massive i/o increase. The games you play today are still made «the old way».
Go back to this post of yours in a years time, and you’d wish you could eat your words. I’ve said it many times already, this gen will be quite special.

RaySoft RaySoft - I'm sorry man, but you guys give nothing but conjecture. I'm looking for specifics that you SHOULD be able to address.

The rendering pipeline I/O will change but not the renderer itself. There is no need. There are no new features that would warrant a complete rewrite of a rendering engine. GG is going to change their renderer to support multiplatforms... and so is ND (already leaked and I told you guys this months ago). The PS5 is VERY similar architecture to the PS4 in terms of components like CPU/GPU (which are the main drivers of visuals).

The only thing that is made the "old way" in games today other than the HDD I/O are all the lighting and screenspace techniques. So I ask again, how are you going to introduce a new lighting system that uses something other than 2d screenspace? And is that lighting system going to be RT? IF so, you already know the consoles are significantly weak at rendering RT. So not seeing much of a change there.. certainly not a "generational leap" change.
 
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MrS

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It's only 13 months away. What's the problem? We know we're getting Returnal, GT7, Ratchet and Horizon next year and the PS5 versions are all going to look way better than anything on PS4. Those games will at least look as Miles Morales, maybe as good as Demon's too. More than happy to play those while we wait for the truly next gen stuff.
 
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Lethal01

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Cool - no one ever said it was cross-gen only. Sony,, have certainly insinuated that the PS5 was next-gen only.

Not at all really, people just heard what they wanted to hear.
 
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Lethal01

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Enigma, This guy is saying a logical statement. Why don't ya'll give him shit over it? Why don't you tell him he's a Sony hater for this comment? It's basically along the same lines of what I've said.

He's indeed saying dumbshit, as are you, yes it's the same as what you do but it's a lot easier to ignore when someone isn't saying the same stupid shit page after page for months.
You're spam fill these forums so much that it actually becomes a pain if I hit the ignore button
 
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VFXVeteran

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He's saying stupidity, yes it's the same as what you do but it's a lot easier to ignore when someone isn't saying the same stupid shit page after page for months.
You're spam fill these forums so much that it actually becomes a pain if I hit the ignore button

I feel the same about you guys talking over and over and over again about how the PS5 will pull rabbits out of it's GPU and overcome the engineering barrier. Or that ONLY a Sony exclusive is a real game and every other game isn't. Or that you continuously say there was a generational leap in fidelity during the PS4 early days and the end days but constantly can't come up with any technical receipts to engage in discussion. How about you put down the Sony cross and actually engage in gaming discussions that aren't biased towards your console of choice? Maybe we can all benefit from a neutral conversation?
 

Guilty_AI

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He's indeed saying dumbshit,
 

Yoboman

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Im interested what they actually have in the pipeline for 2022

I was actually concerned 2022 would be a bit barren if they hit target dates for GOWR, Horizon, GT etc. 2021 looks stacked and 2022 would be too early for Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch or another Insomniac game

Maybe the next Sony Bend game but that wouldn't overly excite me. Could be a new Kojima game. San Diego rumoured to be taking over Uncharted. Maybe the second Bluepoint game, if its with Sony. Maybe TLOU Factions is a bit further out than expected and will hit 2022
 
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Lethal01

Report me for trolling MS/Xbox threads > 07/02
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I feel the same about you guys talking over and over and over again about how the PS5 will pull rabbits out of it's GPU and overcome the engineering barrier. Or that ONLY a Sony exclusive is a real game and every other game isn't. Or that you continuously say there was a generational leap in fidelity during the PS4 early days and the end days but constantly can't come up with any technical receipts to engage in discussion. How about you put down the Sony cross and actually engage in gaming discussions that aren't biased towards your console of choice? Maybe we can all benefit from a neutral conversation?

You asked why people aren't going after him specifically.
The answer is because he doesn't spam threads like you do.
You are trying to use the point that if you put 20 people together they say the same things as justification for spreading as much dumb shit as 20 people.

Also my only Cross is Nintendo's with a Rosary for PC.
 
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VFXVeteran

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You asked why people aren't going after him specifically.
The answer is because he doesn't spam threads like you do.
You are trying to use the point that if you put 20 people together they say the same things as justification for spreading as much dumb shit as 20 people.

If he continuously gave his opinion and you continuously called everything he said "dumb" because it doesn't fit your narrative and you have NOTHING to back up calling it that.. YOU are the problem. Not him .. or anybody else. A lot of people don't engage you dudes because you are exhausting.. Period. You NEVER see any faults in Sony and you continuously wear the superiority badge. I just happen to hate it so much that I'd rather spam the threads continuously shouting how completely biased your lot is and how fake you are about what's reality and what's your own imagination. When you guys can admit even ONE thing (i.e. RT is weak) that indicates the PS isn't the end-all-be-all (you give me shit for the PC which IS the best hardware in reality), you would score BIG points in me and several other people's books. Don't think for a second that I'm alone in what I think or say about you guys... you really need to look at yourselves.
 
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Nhranaghacon

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I feel the same about you guys talking over and over and over again about how the PS5 will pull rabbits out of it's GPU and overcome the engineering barrier. Or that ONLY a Sony exclusive is a real game and every other game isn't. Or that you continuously say there was a generational leap in fidelity during the PS4 early days and the end days but constantly can't come up with any technical receipts to engage in discussion. How about you put down the Sony cross and actually engage in gaming discussions that aren't biased towards your console of choice? Maybe we can all benefit from a neutral conversation?
Say's the person that vehemently argues against John Carmack like he didn't actually create the 3d game industry - neigh the entiiiiiiire game industry - and then also antagonizes Unreal Engine 5 Dev's/Gearbox Software/Hellblade Dev's onwards with countless numerous mentions that Next Gen Consoles will reign in a new era of Visuals while you argue otherwise.

And they will, and they will do it again - while PC's are left clamoring and racing to try and make a game that not only fully utilizes now a 2080 - but GPU's released just within the last few month's; and as I have pointed out no Dev will be able to actually deliver a game that fully utilizes the latest GPU's for some years after these new consoles actually release visually stunning titles.

And no, crossplatform games that compromise and forego tailored offering's on PC to deliver performance over exclusivity do not count. The mark of a game that fully utilizes a GPU/ means the GPU in fact can barely hold 30fps as has been demonstrated time and again - this is when a GPU has been fully utilized... when it struggles to deliver 30fps High Quality on PC. The only game's crossplatform that notably do that per generation are games like GTAV and RDR - so one cross platform dev delivers and by the time they do so it is almost irrelevant.

Your manifesto is clear, you believe console visual's wont be anything spectacular and want us to ignore them and enjoy.... crossplatform titles on pc?!

You're argument's would lend their self far more credence if they did not hinge on crossplatform games, but there really aren't any more relevant PC first exclusive titles now that Star Citizen is in Dev Hell are there?
 
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VFXVeteran

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And they will, and they will do it again - while PC's are left clamoring and racing to try and make a game that not only fully utilizes now a 2080 - but GPU's released just within the last few month's; and as I have pointed out no Dev will be able to actually deliver a game that fully utilizes the latest GPU's for some years after these new consoles actually release visually stunning titles.

OK. SO what you just said is that only a PS5 (for consoles since the Xbox is a multiplatform console and is tied to the PC) in it's low-end hardware that can barely do RT will release visually stunning 1st party ONLY titles and pave the way for the ignorant and unskilled 3rd party developers like CDPR, Activision, Ubisoft, ID SOFTWARE and pretty much everyone except that small handful of Sony devs.


And no, crossplatform games that compromise and forego tailored offering's on PC

-- snip --

You are more blind to Sony than even the most irrational of Sony zealots..

I'm done talking to you..
 
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Keihart

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First generation in which WWS sinks resources in cross gen games, let that sink.

Also...please, tell me with a straight face that Infamous Second Son was a cross gen tittle and looked just like a remastered Infamous 2

No fucking shame.
 
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IDappa

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I feel the same about you guys talking over and over and over again about how the PS5 will pull rabbits out of it's GPU and overcome the engineering barrier. Or that ONLY a Sony exclusive is a real game and every other game isn't. Or that you continuously say there was a generational leap in fidelity during the PS4 early days and the end days but constantly can't come up with any technical receipts to engage in discussion. How about you put down the Sony cross and actually engage in gaming discussions that aren't biased towards your console of choice? Maybe we can all benefit from a neutral conversation?
It ain't a real game unless it is a 3rd person action game with some light rpg mechanics, okay.. all other games are inferior..
 
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Lethal01

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If he continuously gave his opinion and you continuously called everything he said "dumb" because it doesn't fit your narrative and you have NOTHING to back up calling it that.. YOU are the problem. Not him .. or anybody else. A lot of people don't engage you dudes because you are exhausting.. Period. You NEVER see any faults in Sony and you continuously wear the superiority badge. I just happen to hate it so much that I'd rather spam the threads continuously shouting how completely biased your lot is and how fake you are about what's reality and what's your own imagination. When you guys can admit even ONE thing (i.e. RT is weak) that indicates the PS isn't the end-all-be-all (you give me shit for the PC which IS the best hardware in reality), you would score BIG points in me and several other people's books. Don't think for a second that I'm alone in what I think or say about you guys... you really need to look at yourselves.

But I do not care what you think of me at all. I do not want you to change your mind about anyone.
And I'm not here to educate you every time you spout stuff that goes against reality. I am totally fine with you continuing to be wrong, just stop spamming it every time someone says something good about Sony.

I'm not even a Sony fan, I care way more about nintendo and PC. they have maybe 1 game I really care about every couple of years. But if you live in reality you have to agree they are dominating.

I don't go spamming thread because I don't like the majority of their games.
 
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diffusionx

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I honestly don't even know why Jim Ryan said this. If I was him I would have said, "we have the best looking game ever right now, Dark Souls, and a game with the best ray tracing so far in Spiderman Miles Morales here. We are already defining the generation"
 

RaySoft

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RaySoft RaySoft - I'm sorry man, but you guys give nothing but conjecture. I'm looking for specifics that you SHOULD be able to address.

The rendering pipeline I/O will change but not the renderer itself. There is no need. There are no new features that would warrant a complete rewrite of a rendering engine. GG is going to change their renderer to support multiplatforms... and so is ND (already leaked and I told you guys this months ago). The PS5 is VERY similar architecture to the PS4 in terms of components like CPU/GPU (which are the main drivers of visuals).

The only thing that is made the "old way" in games today other than the HDD I/O are all the lighting and screenspace techniques. So I ask again, how are you going to introduce a new lighting system that uses something other than 2d screenspace? And is that lighting system going to be RT? IF so, you already know the consoles are significantly weak at rendering RT. So not seeing much of a change there.. certainly not a "generational leap" change.
I’m using my iPad now, so I’ll be fast and blunt:)
Just the mesh/primitive shaders will be a godsend this gen. The ability to transform geometry on the fly delivered to you on the fastest silver platter yet seen? Even I get steamy dreams from that. What gets me horny tho’ are the possibilities of what smarter men will achieve.

You seem too caugth up in rops and GPU power. While importaint, it’s just one piece of the machinery. The consoles have no stars, it’s the words best band. While the lead singer over at the PC court have a great voice, he also needs a good backingband. There are no lead singers here tho’, the systems have been designed to complement eachother, that’s how you «punch above your weight».
Pc world is different, you have strong individuals trying to communicate with stringed tin cans.

The code is just as importaint as the hardware, and I’m really looking forward to what they come up with down the line. Regardless of what it may be, I know it’s something none of us can even imagine right now.

Regarding RT, it’s not mature enough yet. The hardware supports it, but I dont think they will use it that much, it costs too much for what it brings. Some cool effect here and there, sure, but devs will always use what gives more costing less. 1st party console devs are kinda magichians, Naugty dog is a great example of this, creating stunning visuals on screen with as little cost as possible. Every dev cheats here and there, but if we cant even spot the difference, who cares? That’s what master class is.

Regarding H:FW and probably Ragnarok, they will probably end up on PC since they are cross gen already. Sony wont continue to release their PS5 games on PC after that. If so there would be no reason to create the PS5 like they did. Why would they NOT exploit some of it’s biggest strengths?
 
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Desudzer10

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Kind of a no s*** comment. Until cross gen is no more and the main focus is all next gen we won't see what games can fully do. Plus I'm sure developers are still trying tk figure out how to maximize the consoles for their games
 

Nhranaghacon

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OK. SO what you just said is that only a PS5 (for consoles since the Xbox is a multiplatform console and is tied to the PC) in it's low-end hardware that can barely do RT will release visually stunning 1st party ONLY titles and pave the way the ignorant and unskilled 3rd party companies like CDPR, Activision, Ubisoft, ID SOFTWARE and pretty much everyone except that small handful of Sony devs.




You are more blind to Sony than even the most irrational of zealots..

I'm done here.
Again, I am no Sony fanboy - in fact I don't like Sony. I have pointed this out to you specifically, you are weak to suggest it again. You have no ground for argument when faced with actual industry veteran account's citing how clearly wrong you are. And inferring Id Software is a low skill ignorant 3rd party company speaks to this quiet clearly.

Again I am no Sony fan, we haven't seen a single cross gen big gun first party title from Series X on PC - not one. Barring Flight Simulator which is arguably PC first and arguably not an actual game.

You have no nerve and a callous putrid argument if all you can do is backpedal and default to name-calling when faced with relevant fact's reaching as far back as Doom 3. You are systemically unapologetically wrong. And at this point nearly all hardcore gamers see through it.

Which settles it, your argument is inferior in every manner or way that matters - as the entire industry nearly disagrees.

Next Gen Console visual's will be brilliant and incomprehensible when fully utilized - so say's the entire gaming industry. Take notice Gamer's
we have entered a generation that can finally deliver close to everything you've ever wanted to see - time to celebrate
; and ignore those fallen by the wayside due to mediocrity.
 
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diffusionx

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Say's the person that vehemently argues against John Carmack like he didn't actually create the 3d game industry - neigh the entiiiiiiire game industry - and then also antagonizes Unreal Engine 5 Dev's/Gearbox Software/Hellblade Dev's onwards with countless numerous mentions that Next Gen Consoles will reign in a new era of Visuals while you argue otherwise.

I assume you're talking about that Carmack 2x thing. Well he said that in a world where consoles were still highly customized and specialized hardware that you went down to assembly level to get the most out of it if you needed. It's how we got serviceable ports of Quake 1 on Saturn with its 33mhz CPUs (when the minimum was a 75mhz Pentium) or Quake 2 on PSX. Even the gen before last, devs were able to use the Cell SPUs to do highly customizable AA solutions that didn't exist before and used regular GPU overhead to do comparable on PC.

These days the consoles are built on PC hardware running PC-derived APIs. It's true that you can gain some efficiencies by coding to one piece of hardware, but the PC can and will do anything these consoles can do, as we saw right from the jump with WD Legion. Any enhancements over what we see in WDL or ACV on PS5 can be brought to PC as well, the console isn't magic.
 
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VFXVeteran

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But I do not care what you think of me at all. I do not want you to change your mind about anyone.
And I'm not here to educate you every time you spout stuff that goes against reality.

How are you educating me? With opinions or facts?

I am totally fine with you continuing to be wrong, just stop spamming it every time someone says something good about Sony.

I don't think you understand me. My beef is the superiority complex of the Sony guys. Do you not see that? Surely if you ask the Xbox/PC guys they see it. So why are you up my ass for expressing my hatred of it?

I'm not even a Sony fan, I care way more about nintendo and PC. they have maybe 1 game I really care about every couple of years. But if you live in reality you have to agree they are dominating.

Dominating in popularity, yes. Tech? No.
 

Lethal01

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How are you educating me? With opinions or facts?
And I'm not here to educate you


I don't think you understand me. My beef is the superiority complex of the Sony guys. Do you not see that? Surely if you ask the Xbox/PC guys they see it. So why are you up my ass for expressing my hatred of it?

I'm saying your beef make you act as dumb as you think they are. You are as bad as the worst of them. The "Xbox/PC" guys that you keep saying would back you up say shit that's just as dumb.
"SEE CONCERN THINKS SONY FANS ARE DUMB TOO"

Anyway no more derailing from me. If I reply to you again on this thread may all see me as a weak willed pansy.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Thanks RaySoft RaySoft for a meaningful discussion! Appreciate it!

I’m using my iPad now, so I’ll be fast and blunt:)
Just the mesh/primitive shaders will be a godsend this gen. The ability to transform geometry on the fly delivered to you on the fastest silver platter yet seen?

That's exciting for sure. It will absolutely shorten the pipeline and allow multitask shader units to operate based on demand. But the bottleneck for lighting and shading is still going to be there unfortunately.

You seem too caugth up in rops and GPU power.

Not at all. I'm more caught up in actual rendering of pixels as that's most definitely the final destination of the rendering pipeline and will make the most visual impact moving forward. We still have crude lighting, limited shadow generation, janky tessellation, severely limited LOD management, and big slowdowns with implementing complicated volume FX and procedural geometry/textures. These are the things I worked on and see the biggest leap in visuals going forward.


Regarding RT, it’s not mature enough yet. The hardware supports it, but I dont think they will use it that much, it costs too much for what it brings. Some cool effect here and there, sure, but devs will always use what gives more costing less.

There is no other path forward my friend. We must move towards the holy grail of rendering. Screenspace solutions just aren't going to cut it anymore. We are at the limits there.

1st party console devs are kinda magichians, Naugty dog is a great example of this, creating stunning visuals on screen with as little cost as possible.

I have a friend that worked at ND before. They are commended for the hard work they do, but it is clear to me that other studios do more R&D and tech. You would be suprised at the passing of work from studio to studio.

I worked with the guy that implemented the new GGX BRDF at Disney. HIs solution was derived from months of studying all the BRDFs and coming up with the best one. When Disney released the paper and the gaming companies saw how easy the solution was, that paved the way for PBR shaders in the gaming industry. People who worked at DIsney went to work for RAD and The Order was made. To this day, many studios, including ND adopt techniques from other developers and apply their work. So I said all of that to say that ND realy aren't the magicians that come up with this stuff. It's adopted very well on the console - true, but they aren't the inventors of this tech.

Every dev cheats here and there, but if we cant even spot the difference, who cares? That’s what master class is.

I can agree that ND can make something look good because of their talented artists. No doubt. But there comes a time when you can't just fake things anymore to push the visuals to new levels. And I believe we are at that point.
 
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VFXVeteran

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I assume you're talking about that Carmack 2x thing. Well he said that in a world where consoles were still highly customized and specialized hardware that you went down to assembly level to get the most out of it if you needed. It's how we got serviceable ports of Quake 1 on Saturn with its 33mhz CPUs (when the minimum was a 75mhz Pentium) or Quake 2 on PSX. Even the gen before last, devs were able to use the Cell SPUs to do highly customizable AA solutions that didn't exist before and used regular GPU overhead to do comparable on PC.

These days the consoles are built on PC hardware running PC-derived APIs. It's true that you can gain some efficiencies by coding to one piece of hardware, but the PC can and will do anything these consoles can do, as we saw right from the jump with WD Legion. Any enhancements over what we see in WDL or ACV on PS5 can be brought to PC as well, the console isn't magic.

I've basically said this and yet, I'm called disrespecting John C for it. Everyone knows this is not the case anymore these days. We aren't living in PS3 world anymore. The PS4 and PS5 are more similar to a garden variety PC than ever before.

The mere fact that I call out where is the magic specifically and no one can step up to the plate should be telling who is full of shit and who isn't. It is no longer acceptable to just keep regurgitating the old saying about past generations of CELL, etc.. we don't have that hardware anymore and companies like GG/ND are moving their graphics engine to be portable for the first time ever. That ALSO gets ignored.. and it's a VERY juicy clue to what these 1st party companies have up their sleeves (i.e. hint: PC support).
 
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Guilty_AI

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Next Gen Console visual's will be brilliant and incomprehensible when fully utilized - so say's the entirety of the gaming industry that wants you to buy next gen consoles.
FTFY

Take notice Gamer's we have entered a generation that can finally deliver close to everything you've ever wanted to see - time to celebrate;
Will they deliver entirely destructible scenarios!?!? Oh, they mean even more of those "cinematic experiences" huh....
Well, i suppose there's still Teardown to look forward i guess...

...and ignore those fallen by the wayside due to mediocrity.
I wish the mediocre writing of AAA games would fall to the wayside
 

CobraXT

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He just admitted that Demon Souls Remaster and Ratche and Clanck are not generation defining games
 

chimpsteaks

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In that case I am probably going to just keep playing these games on my PS4 Pro and hold off on upgrading til the PS5 Pro comes out