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PS4 more profitable than any console in video game history!

yurinka

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Again; not how profitability works.

It just means Sony figured out how to profit off of us better this generation than in past generations. Only they know internally how that profit happened and what it is encouraging them to do in the future. They'll reveal some of that on investor calls but it's far more complicated than "wow we should do more of the same!"

Celebrate the decisions that benefit you, not the profit. Some of this profit compared to past generations came from the cheap jaguar CPU this generation started with... PS4 was a great system compared to Xbox, but being more profit minded on hardware was not a benefit to consumers this generation or something for us to celebrate.

I'm not saying profit = bad for us either. It's just not that simple; and I still find it kind of hilarious either way because more profit literally means they figured out how to make more money off of you lol, it's not even at face value something people should be cheering.
If instead of record profits they have massive loses they shut down the division, the company or focus on something else. Thanks to the PS4 insane profits/revenue, the gaming division is now the main Sony division, which means that obviouly they double down their efforts there.

One of them is to graw their game development studios (which means they make more and/or better games) and to buy new ones, and they more or less recently did with Insomniac, and plan to continue doing as Ryan recently said. In addition to this, it also means they put more effort on securing third party exclusives of all kind: total, timed, on console, marketing deals (which often means some benefit like having a console bundle or some extra dlc), etc. All these things benefit us.

In hardware they are going to release a badass console with the latest CPU, GPU, SSD, wifi, Bluetooth and USB technology that will mean a big upgrade since their previous console, plus a cooling solution that should solve the fan noise issues experienced, plus has a full PS4/PSVR BC. We can't ask them a lot more (maybe PS1 & PS2 BC, because PS3 wouldn't be realistic). Probably without all the profit they would have chosen something more conservative, not chosing all the latest stuff and would have bet on something more directly profitable.

Their profit benefit us in all areas. Sega didn't have profits so they had to exit the videogames console race. Many game development studios or publishers had big loses so they did end shutting down or selling. So yes, we need them to be profitable and it's good news for us when they are because it means they will continue providing us good games.
 
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IntentionalPun

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If instead of record profits they have massive loses they shut down the division, the company or focus on something else. Thanks to the PS4 insane profits/revenue, the gaming division is now the main Sony division, which means that obviouly they double down their efforts there.

That is not remotely obvious and you are just ignoring all of my points to the contrary.

When did Sony make the decisions that created the PS4 era that most consumers think is great BTW? Answer me that question. Was it when they had booming profitability?

Look I like everything I'm seeing from Sony.. I will continue to praise their good decisions.

I'll also bash them for stuff like their decision to release a $70 MTX riddled game to start this generation (Destruction All Stars.) I'm happy they reversed course on that; but why do you think Sony went that direction, and is it a good direction for consumers?

But you guys are way over-simplifying how profitability relates to the future of a company or a division at a company.
 
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Dabaus

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Question about revenue vs profit. Does revenue include marketing deals, paying staff etc. and whatever is left after that considered profit? Or does staff salary and deals come out of profit made? Thanks.
 

Rolla

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Question about revenue vs profit. Does revenue include marketing deals, paying staff etc. and whatever is left after that considered profit? Or does staff salary and deals come out of profit made? Thanks.

Profit is the money you keep when all is said and done. Which is why revenue is seen as PR especially when companies hide the costs which give revenue it's context.

To be clear many companies employ the + revenue strategy across the business spectrum.
 
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IntentionalPun

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Revenue include the plastic wrapper on the game case, game case, disc, artwork, payment to store the game in a warehouse, logistics, and shipping to the various stores. Also Dev salaries, marketing, equipment etc etc etc

None of that is revenue... you are describing operating /production costs.

Revenue is literally just the dollars something is generating.
 
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mckmas8808

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Again; not how profitability works.

It just means Sony figured out how to profit off of us better this generation than in past generations. Only they know internally how that profit happened and what it is encouraging them to do in the future. They'll reveal some of that on investor calls but it's far more complicated than "wow we should do more of the same!"

Celebrate the decisions that benefit you, not the profit. Some of this profit compared to past generations came from the cheap jaguar CPU this generation started with... PS4 was a great system compared to Xbox, but being more profit minded on hardware was not a benefit to consumers this generation or something for us to celebrate.

I'm not saying profit = bad for us either. It's just not that simple; and I still find it kind of hilarious either way because more profit literally means they figured out how to make more money off of you lol, it's not even at face value something people should be cheering.

The decisions that have benefitted me, more than likely lead to the profit. I doubt it's just 3rd party MTX and PS+ subs.

Remember when, before the PS4 release, everyone was saying that dedicated consoles were dead and that mobile would take over?

Good times.

It was always stupid for people to say that. Consoles never showed any signs of slowing down. It was an expensive PS3 and made consoles look like consoles were less popular than before. Glad most of us GAF members never fell for the hoax.

Remarkable. Consoles are alive and well.

I remember the Sony is doomed days and the "this will be the last console cycle".

Crazy how far we've come.

Remember when those "same" media idiots said single player games are OVER? And that only multiplayer games like Rocket League and Destiny were the new future. LOL!!!!!

Keep in mind those same people are now trying to tell us that game streaming and subscriptions like Gamepass are the new future and that consoles are gonna be doomed again.
 
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Rolla

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I was thinking about "operating income" when I wrote that. What a dumbo lol
 

Dabaus

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Revenue include the plastic wrapper on the game case, game case, disc, artwork, payment to store the game in a warehouse, logistics, and shipping to the various stores. Also Dev salaries, marketing, equipment etc etc etc

Profit
is the money you keep when all is said and done. Which is why revenue is seen as PR especially when companies hide the costs which give revenue it's context.

To be clear many companies employ the + revenue strategy across the business spectrum.

So theoretically, could sony and whoever else use revenue money to put towards deals and/or acquisitions? I guess what im asking is, is if revenue would/could be used for such deals and profit is remaining from what they dont spend. If that makes sense.
 
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CrysisFreak

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That's really not how profitability works lol
Yes it is? Of course they will not invest all profits into development, I wish they did lmao.
But profitability is good for the platform and we like the platform. So there you go.
If you disagree with that OK.
 

Rolla

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So theoretically, could sony and whoever else use revenue money to put towards deals and/or acquisitions? I guess what im asking is, is if revenue would be used for such deals and profit is remaining from what they dont spend. If that makes sense.

I misspoke on revenue and meant operating income. My bad.

That aside revenue "without context" is still a meaningless figure.
 
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Dabaus

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I misspoke on revenue and meant operating income. My bad.

That aside revenue "without context" is still a meaningless figure.

Good point. It seems weird how they have like 10s of billions of dollars of revenue and receive like only 1 billion in profits. I know at least 1/3 usually goes to a third party publisher but im just curious where the rest of the revenue goes.
 

pixelation

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I'm not concerned with their profits. Earn those profits by selling me good games. That's what matters at the end.

Sony had much MUCH higher quality (and more) 1st party output this gen over MS, so I don't know why you seem to be implying that Sony's games are lacking. Where are you coming from with that?, because Sony had "good games" in spades (unlike MS).
 
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FranXico

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Sony had much MUCH higher quality (and more) 1st party output this gen over MS, so I don't know why you seem to be implying that Sony's games are lacking. Where are you coming from with that?, because Sony had "good games" in spades (unlike MS).
I'm not implying anything. I'm asserting that their profits were earned by selling gamers what they wanted: good games.
 

yurinka

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That is not remotely obvious and you are just ignoring all of my points to the contrary.

When did Sony make the decisions that created the PS4 era that most consumers think is great BTW? Answer me that question. Was it when they had booming profitability?

Look I like everything I'm seeing from Sony.. I will continue to praise their good decisions.

I'll also bash them for stuff like their decision to release a $70 MTX riddled game to start this generation (Destruction All Stars.) I'm happy they reversed course on that; but why do you think Sony went that direction, and is it a good direction for consumers?

But you guys are way over-simplifying how profitability relates to the future of a company or a division at a company.
They made bad decisions for the PS3 launch that caused them huge loses and bad stuff for us gamers. In the second half of the generation they fixed some of these issues and since they provided better stuff they got better profits.

So they did follow in this direction with PS4 launch trying to continue fixing or improving the issues they had with PS3 launch. The rest is basically what they always did.

I mean, during PS3 first they had a strategy that caused loses, and then another one that generated profits: so they doubled down on the one that makes profits. This strategy is causing them to have record profits, sales and revenue of all kinds, so they doubled it down for PS5: they continue fixing and improving issues the previous one had (no BC, noisy fan, slow loading...) on top of the typical next gen stuff they always succesfully did, but now more than ever betting for the latest stuff.

I'm just telling what they did and said.

Btw how do you know if Destruction All Stars has MTX or not and how much of them? Go with your fud somewhere else. Regarding the $10 increase, it's something that due to inflation they had to do several generations ago because the budgets skyrocket every generation and game prices didn't increase. So to compensate this they had two options: one to increase game prices (not only Sony, all AAA publishers will do as they start releasing next gen only games).

Yes, I prefer the Sony strategy on keeping their focus in single player games, releasing AAA next gen only games from day one and stay away from the MTX GaaS bullshit for their main 1st party games, even if it means to pay $10 more. I prefer that over MS strategy of not releasing 1st party AAA next gen only games during the first couple of years and turning their big 1st party IPs like Halo or Forza into GaaS or even F2P (which means MTX, as we confirmed recently for Halo Infinite).

I also prefer the Sony strategy of keeping their devs working on a console or two to optimize more their games because they end being. Instead of forcing them to release them in the double of consoles plus PC as MS does. To my personal taste I prefer the Sony games over the MS games (and looking every year to the GOTY candidate and winner lists many people seem to agree), so I think their strategy is better.

I don't give a fuck about Destruction AllStars, because it's a minor game I almost don't play multiplayer games. But hey, now it will be on PS+ so I'll test it.
 
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iHaunter

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They're still recovering from this nightmare. lol
 
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Edgelord79

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That's LITERALLY how it works.
Ever notice how that bag of chips keeps getting smaller every few years yet costing more while tasting ever so slightly worse?

Not saying that's what's happening in this case, but your definition of how profit works is incorrect. Efficiencies drive profit. Quality is part of that, but you can make profit on poor quality items.
 

mckmas8808

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Ever notice how that bag of chips keeps getting smaller every few years yet costing more while tasting ever so slightly worse?

Not saying that's what's happening in this case, but your definition of how profit works is incorrect. Efficiencies drive profit. Quality is part of that, but you can make profit on poor quality items.

Yes, it's possible. But there's no reason to believe it'll happen here with Playstation. They have 25 years worth of experience. Plus us gamers that had the PS1 - PS4, know what to expect at this point.
 

Edgelord79

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Yes, it's possible. But there's no reason to believe it'll happen here with Playstation. They have 25 years worth of experience. Plus us gamers that had the PS1 - PS4, know what to expect at this point.
I don't think you understand. You said it was "literally" how it works. That's flat out wrong.

You made a definitive statement that was incorrect in rebuttal to someone who told you that not how it works.

Quality is most likely part of their efficiency chain as is most companies. But that wasn't the point of my comment.
 

IntentionalPun

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They made bad decisions for the PS3 launch that caused them huge loses and bad stuff for us gamers. In the second half of the generation they fixed some of these issues and since they provided better stuff they got better profits.

So they did follow in this direction with PS4 launch trying to continue fixing or improving the issues they had with PS3 launch. The rest is basically what they always did.

I mean, during PS3 first they had a strategy that caused loses, and then another one that generated profits: so they doubled down on the one that makes profits. This strategy is causing them to have record profits, sales and revenue of all kinds, so they doubled it down for PS5: they continue fixing and improving issues the previous one had (no BC, noisy fan, slow loading...) on top of the typical next gen stuff they always succesfully did, but now more than ever betting for the latest stuff.

I'm just telling what they did and said.

"Doubling down on what you've done" isn't some instant path to profits. My only point is it's far more complex than that.

"They made bad decisions for the PS3 Launch" during a time when the PS2 was a huge profit boom for them... again, my point being we have no clue what a corporation will focus on and whether it will be good for consumers based on their current profits.

Btw how do you know if Destruction All Stars has MTX or not and how much of them? Go with your fud somewhere else.

We know for a fact it has MTX because of the ESRB info; we also know it has an in game currency that is purchasable with real world money.

It's blatantly obvious it's a game that is going to prominently feature MTX. But it's a fact that it does have them.

I also prefer the Sony strategy of keeping their devs working on a console or two to optimize more their games because they end being. Instead of forcing them to release them in the double of consoles plus PC as MS does. To my personal taste I prefer the Sony games over the MS games (and looking every year to the GOTY candidate and winner lists many people seem to agree), so I think their strategy is better.

I also prefer Sony's strategy and have high hopes they'll continue to produce products I love.

It's still not as simple as "yay profits!" from a consumer perspective... and it's just a dumb thing to cheerlead in general as it literally means "Yay you are spending less money than you could to provide me products." A huge amount of it here is fanboys being silly caproate cheerleaders and not being logical consumers and you'll never convince me otherwise.
 
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I thought the Wii would have been the most profitable since they were making a profit on each console from the start?
It would have taken a lot of Wiis to offset 45million people paying a yearly -recurring-fee.

The Wii didn't sell much more than the PS4 anyway, and some of these units are higher margin PS4 pros.
 
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It's a "game minded" machine this tells me PS5 will sell 10x more than the PS1 20x more than the PS2 etc. everything Playstation related is measured by it's predecessor, SONY doesn't even look Microsoft or Steams way.
Don't even look Microsoft or steams way except for, you know, putting their first party titles on steam and paying Microsoft for timed exclusive games. But yeah they don't even consider them threats! That's why they are buying timed exclusives and deliberately being vague on games coming to PC.
 

Gamerguy84

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It was a hell of a comeback. I remember some celebrating waiting for Sony to announce closing its doors.

From the disaster of the recession which affected all their hardware, cameras being hit by mobile phone sales, TV by Samsung and Vizio, to PS3 which cost a fortune and sold everyone at greater than $200 loss.

Hopefully PS5 keeps up momentum.
 

Vawn

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I told ya'll not to underestimate the power of PlayStation, but some of you still underestimated the power of PlayStation.
 

iamvin22

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I'm not concerned with their profits. Earn those profits by selling me good games. That's what matters at the end.

their profits are the reason why you are getting those games so I think we should be concerned about their profits because if they eating then that means their devs are eating and that translates to happy devs which then translate to more good games.
 

mckmas8808

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I don't think

I don't think you understand. You said it was "literally" how it works. That's flat out wrong.

You made a definitive statement that was incorrect in rebuttal to someone who told you that not how it works.

Quality is most likely part of their efficiency chain as is most companies. But that wasn't the point of my comment.

I shouldn't have used the word "literally". But most understand that, that's how it's been working within the video game's space for decades.

Why are we celebrating Sony making a lot of money off of us?

iamvin22 iamvin22 said it best here.

their profits are the reason why you are getting those games so I think we should be concerned about their profits because if they eating then that means their devs are eating and that translates to happy devs which then translate to more good games.
 
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FranXico

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their profits are the reason why you are getting those games so I think we should be concerned about their profits because if they eating then that means their devs are eating and that translates to happy devs which then translate to more good games.
That cycle is part of a healthy industry. Let's hope it stays that way.
 

Edgelord79

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I shouldn't have used the word "literally". But most understand that, that's how it's been working within the video game's space for decades.

But it really isn't. You think EA is driven by quality? Activision? Blizzard? You are severely underselling Sony here. I would argue the opposite and say that in the video game space, they are actually unique along with Nintendo.

Most understand that quality is a strong component for Sony period. Not true for the rest of the industry necessarily. One hat does not fit all.
 
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Makes sense. I recall reading that the original launch PS4s cost $389 per unit to produce. Since Sony initially sold them for $399, they were making a profit from the beginning. That's a stark contrast to the PS3, where Sony was losing money on each system sold in the beginning.
 

IntentionalPun

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Even more hilarious how many forgot that the success of the Ps2 resulted in arrogant Sony(two jobs to afford a console) and the overpriced Ps3.
And the success of the Ps4 led to 70 dollar games...
Right; it's just not that simple.

We are seeing Sony make moves that aren't beneficial to us; raising prices, releasing a game that appears to be designed around MTX (although TBH not a big deal to me, is generally a big negative to consumers) and who knows what else is to come.. hopefully mostly good stuff.

But it's always a mixed bag, but a company maximizing their profits also pretty much always means... cost cutting + price increases. It's not something to cheerlead directly unless you are an investor.

The PS5 appears to be a great value but we are already seeing a lot of people pretty disappointed by the $70 prices for instance, these companies aren't our friends.
 
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JonnyMP3

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So guessing the Sony model still works, despite numerous claims of the market needs shaking up...
 

ExKing

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Switch might own that title in 4 years from now.
 

mckmas8808

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But it really isn't. You think EA is driven by quality? Activision? Blizzard? You are severely underselling Sony here. I would argue the opposite and say that in the video game space, they are actually unique along with Nintendo.

Most understand that quality is a strong component for Sony period. Not true for the rest of the industry necessarily. One hat does not fit all.

Is EA and Activision having healthy (best all-time) profits now?
 

Edgelord79

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Is EA and Activision having healthy (best all-time) profits now?
Yes... Profits are up and clearly quality isn't a driving factor. Not sure how you define healthy and no clue about all-time.

I assume you have a point to make here.
 
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